I thought I bumb this topic cause I think it is too intersting to get lost forever.

BTW: I realized that one can not access the original page anymore, so here is the text from the link:

"5 Near death experience, active layer again, no or almost no delta waves..no brain waves at all, still full consciousnes and second body of pure light)

PasQuale asks:
How do you incubate a NDE? How do you know it is NDE? It sounds like you have NDE's like others have OBE's or is this theory? Or have you experienced it?

Jeff answers:

How i incubate a NDe mm the first time it was a selfhypnosis accident..
I had already learned my self that if i lay in a ld on bed or at the ground or couch i could desolve my dream body by letting it faal a sleep the same way like i do a wild with my real body in real life..
So when you wild in your lucid dreams the way i do a normal wild your dream body falls a sleep and desolves your real body also falls then in deep sleep and you also. You reach then the big black void or deep sleep!
But one time i was laying in my lucid dream and practising wild (funny isnt it wild practising in a lucid dream lol) ,my way to do wild is a mix from self hypnosis zen meditation and chakra breathing and focussing..i call it trance meditation..its much alike the classic yogi does it.
Well that one time i started with letting my left dream hand fall a sleep and i fell the nerves from my hand all the way in my brain..then i get a blitz idea..why not give my self the hypnotic suggestion (i was already under hypnosis) to let totally go of my whole brain..i did and what happend i call blitz NDE/OBE because it struck me like lightining so fast. I went down in deep sleep and through it in a second and reached the part where ppl talk about when they have nde in hospital..
in one sec through the deep black void i felt my body fallen a sleep like hell so strong and suddenly it was like a 10.000 watt bright neon lights were shining at my face and i had a second body of pure light there was nothing around me then bright neon white light..i heared an enormous buzzzzzz and it gelt my lungs where pulling out of my chest..the i saw a tunnel of white light and on the ohter side a world of beautiful nature and it radiated a warmth and love at me that i only had felt before..there my instinct was ringing like hell that if i would go a bit further i would loose control so i listend to my instinct as always ans started to focussing at my plexus solaris to stabelize that incredebile beyond deep sleep stage.
I couldnt control it from my head anymore..didnt work..from pure thougtless feeling from the plexus it took me half a minute to stabelize it and slowly went up to the deep sleep stagwe again and focussed at waking myself..i woke up from sleep and rushed to my pc next to my bed
and it showed i had been in a NDE below deep sleep almost no hz there a minute before i woke up..also it showed that i had come from a non rem stage to deep sleep to that sort of no hz (close to shutdown) NDE stage stayed there shortly and then moved up to deep sleep region again throug non rem sleep to wards waking and woke up..just as i had experienced it..
Was amazing..i still am working on it..my control gets better and so i can now move into the tunnel without loosing control. And weird enough you see a world at the other end of it.
Iam thinking of that to buy again a EEG machine of even better quality.
My head is already shaved again so conducting is easy ^^ "

I'm no medic but I doubt that this is possible without paranormal ablity. It usually is not very good for your health if you run things through your intestinals like swords and the like  liver and renal also don't like to be pierced. He did some other things like swallowing knifes and such...

 

http://www.mirin-dajo.com/mirindajo.html

I know what you mean. lol

Check this out!

http://gawker.com/5002269/the-cruise-indoctrination-video-scientology-tried-to-suppress

You must see the last minute it is funny

the rest, you decide....

Hi All

I need your council:

This past Summer I accompanied I friend of mine to her spiritual community, which I believe to be a sect. Just „for fun“ I attended a „Darshan“ which was given by the Fe San Shakti (http://www.feuerschamane.de/fesan.html) the „chief“  there.

During the darshan one has to kneel in front of her and open oneself while she stares into ones eyes for about 60 sec. I did so and frankly did not feel much at all. But if there are indeed negative energies then I would believe them to be found at places like that cause, I did feel kind of a really bad vibe there.

Now the basic Question is: Is it possible this had some negative effect on me? Should I do some kind of „action“ to reverse the effect (if there is any?)

Or what do you think? Should I just forget about it?

Thanks guys Tom

The place was:

http://www.sunsetfortune.com/amritabha.html

there is no real page on English, there is only kind of a american branch of the community:

http://www.sunsetfortune.com/MaRa.html

or

http://www.spiritfengshui.co.nz/

Thank you very much for your post TVOS

It is very inspiring. Really help me to get motivated again. I tried to meet my guardian angel before but didn't quite make it. also I seem to experience some similiar problem as you describe in the way that I tend to fade out when tring to get higher because of fear or anxiety. I travelled up to the sky two times recently, which left my in the dark with strang vibrations, I then recalled your report and tried to relax and wish for my guardian angel which lead to some kind of light appearing and some kind of stabilization. But then I got to unsecure and faded out. I will try to keep working on it and hopefully be able to share some reports in the future. Anyway thanks again and looking foreward to hear more from your travels!

Your AP Friend, Tom 

Oh really you like it . Thats is very kind of you guys. We asked so many People about different Names and no matter what we took somebody found something bad about it, so we finally decided to chose one without asking anybody.You guys are the first I tell about the name. We will stick with Moonfire now, I guess the Band makes the Name not vica versa....

I will love to show you some of our Music as soon as we have something recorded. It will be a Accoustic Country kind of thing, with a lot of our own Songs.....Watch out Moonfire is coming your way!

[Moonfire]

Ha! for anybody interested....

We finally have chosen a name: Moonfire

Thx for the help!

Hmmm

Interesting that you guys favour Strawberry Moon! We favoured Coast Wind because we thought it is the easiest the remember (We live in Switzerland).

Maybe it has to do with the fact that this is a OBE-Forum?! I also posted the question in a Banjo-Forum and they said Don't Pick Strawerry Moon, not on any account.........

Still very unsure what to pick. I even may post some more suggestions to pivk from.

Thx for the inputs, Tom

I started a Band recently and now we are looking for a cool Band Name.

We are planning on Playing kind of Bluegrass and accoustic Country Music with our on touch.

We have narrowed down the options to 4 names, now I wonder which one you guys would pick.............

Thx Tom

Doesn't look too good for Frank in every way!

Hello Everybody

 I do have a couple of important question which I would like to ask for a friend which has some very odd experiences and I guess it would really mean a lot to her if you could help me gain some insight.
I go on and describe a little what she experiences:

If she meditates (concentrates on the breath) she very quickly feels like very far away. In this state  she strongly feels the presence of something other and that something is trying to touch her, she said she feels this very precise like somebody is standing behind her and touching her and then she starts to feel that something wants to get out of her breast!  She has to start crying without any apparent reason.. This thing in her breast tries to get “out” and her Body tries to let it go and she just passively observes this tug of war. During this she feels like she is gone suffocate. She also tried to contact that thing and not to be afraid but then feelings become even more oppressive and she feels like she can’t breath anymore. After that experience her body was trembling strongly for over 10 minutes. This seems to happen every time she tries to meditate.

-She also feels the presence of dead People in some places and she has to leave cause she can’t endure it.

-She has also a lot of foreseeing dreams.

She doesn’t know anything about this experiences and has the following questions:

-What is happening with her?

-Can these Perceptions harm her?

-How can she protect herself from that?

-Can these other beings harm her?

-And what kind of things tries to escape from her?

-Were can she learn more about these things?

Help would be appreciated!

Thanks everybody! Tom

As you know i play banjo  

I have sometimes a dream that my fingers are stiff and very weak and that I don't have much control. I then can't keep up with the other musicians which is frustrating.

regards Tom

[Lucid Dreams]

2.  Lucid Dreams

I am able to move from F2 to F3 (Frank's model) during these.

Sarah

Hello Sarah

Would you mind explaining a little how you do that  Is there any specific techique you use?

Also how do you experience the difference between the two?

Thx, Tom

 I agree. But so far logical thinking has provided us with what you see around you now (including the PC we are using to discuss) whereas belief and experience which can’t even remotely be consistently shared with others has just brought us personal experiences and little more. I don’t think sciences view is inherently materialistic as much of what science works with today is definitely not material, and was outside the scope of scientists a few hundred years ago.

Certainly I'm not agains logic it's great. What I mean is just that we are dealing with the mind itself here. Maybe i can put it this way: Logic is just a aspect of the mind ( for example feelings, perceptions etc are also part of the mind but are outside of logic) So therefore I suspect that with logical thinking alone we won't understand the mind, it is just my theorie though.

I agree. But this is the same for the view that the mind is more than the brain. It’s a meme which has spread down the ages with nothing to substantiate it (other than personal experience – which is not conclusive in itself) – yet it is used as an argument point.

Well it is not a theorie that the mind is more then the brain, it seems like a fact to me. the brain is matter the mind is Not matter, this two are hard to fit together no matter how you turn it. How can an electric impulse generate a self/mind etc?

What I meant is that we could create an infinite amount of reasons for anything if we don’t require any form of reproducible, substantial proof to back it up. But this doesn’t mean any reason we create has any form of reality outside of ourselves.

I agree. But do include  things such as meditation or Buddhism as "science of the mind" it is also reproducible. substantial proof? well maybe not in the way you mean but having dircet experiences in the mind is more substantial to me then any "outside" proof.


 

I’m not sure I agree with this, as until recently, western culture was no different in believing more duellist views of mind/brain. I think this is partly due to indoctrination of such beliefs (as happens now) and little to no knowledge about the brain at all.
 For example, if we had no knowledge of the functions of the brain, I think we all would view consciousness as more than matter produced. Its only the recent cutting edge science of the brain which has made us start to question this.

I agree

If I hadn’t read all the things on neurology that I have (things which have shown their worth through medical procedure saving countless lives), then I would still happily be holding a duellist view of reality. Now I am uncertain, so I question.

I understand. kepp in mind though that we can also put things to good use without really understanding them. what I mean is that we can manipulate things without the need to truely understand them. for example I can create a airplane using the laws of newton. This plane will ( or better probably won't   ) fly although the laws used are in fact false. The newton laws are not completly correct the Einstein quations are more correct. So what I try say is that the fact that we understand somethings and put them to good use (e.g. Computer, neuroscience) doesn't mean we truely understand the real essence of them.

I agree. The idea that we are products of our brain is quite horrific really – but I guess I want to learn ‘the truth’ regardless of my fears.

Recently I come to the conclusion that it is maybe not that horrific. Do we really understand what matter is? I don't think so. Current theorie I thinks is  strings (consisting of what?!) vibrating in  multidimensional space. I wonder what the theorie is in 50 Years..... So in way we do not know what matter actually is so in that way we do not really know what this neurons in the brain actually are. Maybe they indeed produce the mind but maybe the mind and matter are two sides of the same coin. maybe as we learn more we will realize that matter is frozen thought or something like that and the horror will be gone. Just my theorie again.

I somewhat agree. A scientific theory generally has to be reproducible to be accepted as accurate, and if a scientific theory was produced which could explain and reproduce something we once took to be paranormal – would this be science ‘explaining away’ the phenomenon, or would it be science actually finding an explanation other than ‘ours’ for the phenomenon?

 if science finds good explanations thats great. I don't think there is science and then there is Paranormal stuff and one destroys the other. there is just one world. as science evolves it will cover more and more paranormal things, thats what I believe and i think that is great. But I think science has to open up. intensify the research in areas like OBE NDE Telephaty with an open mind and our knowledge grow.

I think it comes down to me wondering why, if I have projection experiences, they have to mean life after death, they have to mean I have energy bodies, I have chakras, that I am an inhabitant of an astral world currently inhabiting a belief system to learn lessons etc. I know none of this directly, so why should I just buy into it without question?

True, I agree with you. I don't buy into it that is far certain. But I try to keep an open mind maybe it is true.

(For me at least, it just doesn’t ‘feel’ right). I only experienced ‘the vibrations’ before I read about all this stuff, and it wasn’t until I started to believe about ‘silver cords’ etc that I actually saw them. My experiences before that had nothing of the sort. So it seemed to suggest my increasing belief in these philosophies was actually creating them, rather than them being inherently true.

Very well possible. This may teach that the experiences are greatly influenced by ourselfs. A insight impossible to find with common science but nevertheless very important would you say?


 

This is why I want to strip away the dogma and unfounded belief (in me at least) and really see what is there – look at things without even deep unconscious programming getting in the way.

I agree. But is seems possible to me that for example the believe in brain, science etc and the doubt in Soul ,Chakras , Astralplaes ect may also shape your experiences and impede any direct knowledge of this things. It is really hard to get a completly open mind (also when projecting) at leats for me it is. I strongly feel that my own fear and believes (which are strongly logic and science based, as I studie physics) compromise my astral experiences. a catch 21  :confused:

regards Tom

I agree. But I also think the spiritual explanations people create to explain these happenings don’t help us discover what is going on in the long term, they might even impede our view so we miss what is happening.

Maybe maybe not. It is also possible that our logical thinking and our materialistic world view does impede our view!

I didn’t say it proves the brain creates it, just that there is direct examples of similar things which are created by the brain i.e. so it wouldn’t be outside of the brain ability to create such things.

You can't be sure that the brain creates this, just that the brain plays a role in the process.

Regarding the brain loosening the connection between brain and spirit, this is looking at it from a desirable belief system – and this is what I meant earlier by having our view clouded by belief. Robert Bruce and Robert Monroe both reached a point where they dropped all belief systems in favour of knowns. They both found they really knew very little, but doing this freed them to find truths.

Thats was just an alternative idea to show that there are different explantions.

My belief in astral realms, in reincarnation, in the spirit/brain separation etc is all the belief of others that I have taken on from reading books etc. They also took these beliefs on from others etc. When we enter the astral with beliefs and expectations, those beliefs and expectations are met. I want to see past this to what is truly happening.
 So rather than theorising that these drugs create a loosening of sprit/brain (pure belief with not even personal evidence), I now see how the brain an create similar experiences in a natural way

I agree partly with you but not about the "brain".  See shamans also use drugs to have soul journeys but still they don't conclude that it is all created by the brain. So your conclusion also is not based on facts but on believes.  the view that the hard science methods applied by western culture is better suitable to reveal the real nature of the world then other  approches is also a believe. This may be hard to accept, it is hard to accept for me but.........

But I agree with you that from a scientific viewpoint there may be more things pointing to the brain then away from it. i also admitt that I don't want the brain to be the creater of all this  so my view is really not neutral.

But  if something paranormal happens scientists search for explantions that fit with their view and sooner or later they will find something and vica versa it is really hard to remain neutral!

Sorry for the double posts there seems to be a malfunction

I’m really not sure if brain creates consciousness. But I can’t ignore all the work done in neurology which shows how various brain areas are related to cognitive functions and memory, sensation, etc. Look at brain damaged people, they suffer impairments from mild to pretty extreme – so we cannot deny the brain plays a major (if not total) role in what we are. People might argue that the brain is a receiver and parts of the receiver are damaged – but as yet this is purely belief to hold on to a belief system about the brain.

well there are the reports from People being out of Body while having a NDE and then conforming real events they couldn't possible known. A friend of mine friend did as well. This may not be scientific proof but it is certainly a strong hint that our understanding of consciousness is not complete.

Then there are also the numerous reincarnation reports and studies. I'm not really into it but I believe reincarnation is more or less a proven facts.

No NDE has been recorded in a brain dead person. Brain activity can still be recorded in the core brain for weeks after ‘death’. What this means I really don’t know. But all NDEs to date happen within seconds/minutes of heart stopping, and their brain still functioning pretty normally.

is that really so? Sure it is possible that a core part of the brain still functions and is generating the NDE. But saying that a flat EEQ is a brain still functioning pretty normally. I don't know what brain experts would say to that. I doubt they would say that though..........

I agree with this to an extent. I am more perhaps of the belief we cannot know what exactly is outside of us. Reality as we perceive it might be interference patterns interpreted as what we see now (i.e. hologram). I once had an experience where I perceived myself to be like a circular organ attached by nerves and veins to a larger body. Everyone was this kind of organ, forever attached to this larger body for survival – yet the nerves running into us fed us what we perceived to be external stimuli – so rather than this senseless object, we perceived ourselves to be humanoid and living in a rich environment (reality).

Thats is a bit creepy.

To an extent. But there are a lot of theories regarding NDEs and DMT release into the brain (DMT is a psychedelic which creates OBEs in its users and is produced by the brain).

I don't doubt that the brain plays a mayor role, but all thios theories can not explain any psychic happenings during NDE. And as fas as I'm informed there are plenty of them.

But as yet, nothing what-so-ever indicates they are more than the brain. And this is what frustrates me. We have many gurus who I shan’t name release books every few years, yet they cannot be bothered to at least provide some proof of this phenomenon (which they could easily do if the stories they tell are true).

That is true and frustrates me as well, but as I said above I think there are in fact hints that show that NDE are not generated by the brain.




 T

he idea I presented has some plausibility. For instance, psychedelic users can experience a feeling of timelessness – in many instances I have literally lived decades in the space of minutes while on very high doses of psychedelics. it can really impair subjective time perception.

I don't doubt that and it is interesting indeed, But it does not really prove in any way that the brain creates all of this. Maybe the drugs just loosen the connection between the brain and spirit or they alter the download process into the brain?

I cannot see why evolution hasn’t prepared us for death, so as our body nears it, it might release massive amount of DMT into our brain which creates a drastic slowing of time – and we perceive ourselves to leave our body and move into a joyous afterlife etc. Perhaps oblivion occurring when our afterlife adventure takes us to the source (which would mean oblivion as far as we are concerned).

Can't follow your argument here. Why should evolution care about that? evolution should only care about the passing on of your genes. Why should a subjective eternal life in a dying Body help that process?

Take care Tom

Well, you might be stuck, but still ... nice! How comfortable are you with conciously reaching FoC2 and 3D Blackness (FZ)? I still have some practice to put in before I can comfortably say I can reach it every practice. But we might be able to start a sort of Focus Group in FoC3 sooner than I thought ...    

Are you reaching FoC2 with a rundown? I'm doing progressive relaxation, focusing on relaxing every muscle, and then near Monroe's F10, switching to a rundown, or just observing to get to FoC2. I still need to stabilize in FoC2 before I can reliably detune to FZ. I always thought once I could consistently get to FZ, FoC3 would be a snap ...

Well don't overestimate me

I either go to F2 by

-Lucid dreaming, which has it's problems I guess ( e.q getting a clear consciousness and not slipping back to dreams) This is actually my main method but I think in the long run you might be more successful with the rundown. I'm a bit lazy and and not very good with relaxation thats why I prefer LD Well we see, I still believe it is possible to attain full consciousness thru LD though.

- Or I might lay down in the morning after 6-8 hours of sleep and observe my self drifting back to sleep. This way I induce a direct consciousness transition from F1->F2

I'm a bit lazy lately, somebody (e.g YOU!) reporting that he can reach F3 on purpose certainly would give me a boost

Thanks for the link, Tombo.

So far, F2 to the 3D Blackness is as far as I go. I'm still working on solidifying the conscious transition to F2, and having enough awareness once I get there that it doesn't slip away and I have to come back for fear of falling asleep.

As soon as I have some F3 experience, I'll post again and let you know. Anyone else who gets to F3, please do the same.  Also, let me know if the "slats" Frank talks about are a good way for you to tune out of F2 to make the switch, or if you find another way that works better for you.

The slats seem a good way to detune from F2 for me. The transition from 3D Blackness to F3 is were I'm stuck. I usually wake up from the Blackness rather then seeing a door or alike to transit to F3. Maybe it is a subc. protection mechansim or something that is preventing it or maybe I just don't have enough practice.......

Regards Tom

All I know is there

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18538&highlight=

Cool!

check this two out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvG3IK-hzRs&feature=Favorites&page=2&t=t&f=b


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t32M-M2iQGc&feature=Favorites&page=2&t=t&f=b

I guess I err on the side of science because it at least allows for a common framework and the possibility of answers

MisterJingo, I feel there is some work in this vein going on, albeit slowly and pretty much under the radar. But due to the nature of OBEs, I feel there are other ways (besides waiting for a scientific study to come out) to verify some of these things. For instance, Frank said:

What has happened is the primary thrust of my work on the Astral Pulse has changed to the extent where my priority now is to teach people the Phasing Approach (those that want to, obviously) so we can get projecting and hopefully meet up within Focus 3 of consciousness.

I still want to reach this goal. I think it's possible that you and I (and others) could meet in Focus 3 and verify details of the experience with as much clarity as if we had met in a coffee shop down the road in physical life.

As soon as you are able to reach F3 on purpose, please let me know.

I will try as well

Tut!