2008 and 2010

[andonitxo]

Hi there,

I've been doing a bit research about this thing of 2012, and, by the way, I've also consulted a few friends of mine who are astrologers.

They've been investigating that change that is to come, but they've given me two different dates. The first one is an adjustment of the 2012, which well calculated it turns to 2010 (don't know the mathematical processes to apply).

The other date, 2008, is when Pluto enters into Capricorn. That'll produce a radicalization of the political currents in the world. The right, the obtuse, the stagnation will invade our societies and freedom will be chained up.

This period will last around 12 years, and then Pluto will enter into Aquarius, the real liberator. At that point, humanity will have known the evil of radical postures and will cry out for freedom.

This is just another viewpoint from some friends that I wanted to share here.

Bye.

[Mydral]

Since when do planet positions influence political events?

[Nay]

I bet some are thinking..."since Bush became president" 

[Hannah b]

LOL TalaNay 

Since when do planet positions influence political events?

since forever...

[Leo Volont]

Hi there,

I've been doing a bit research about this thing of 2012, and, by the way, I've also consulted a few friends of mine who are astrologers.

They've been investigating that change that is to come, but they've given me two different dates. The first one is an adjustment of the 2012, which well calculated it turns to 2010 (don't know the mathematical processes to apply).

The other date, 2008, is when Pluto enters into Capricorn. That'll produce a radicalization of the political currents in the world. The right, the obtuse, the stagnation will invade our societies and freedom will be chained up.

This period will last around 12 years, and then Pluto will enter into Aquarius, the real liberator. At that point, humanity will have known the evil of radical postures and will cry out for freedom.

This is just another viewpoint from some friends that I wanted to share here.

Bye.

You talk about Freedom as a good thing.

Who was ever freer than Atilla the Hun or Genghis Khan?  Every Civilization that had ever Collapsed, fell when the Doctrines of Freedom lead the way to the conquests of Barbarism.

Civilizations do not rise on Freedom.  Civilizations rise on institutions that guarantee collective security, and foster community cooperation and moral sacrifice.   As Civilizations turn over-ripe and then rot, the Powerful and Wealthy Classes attempt to erode the Collective Institutions and notions of Self-Sacrifice, so they may increase their personal profits and accrue a great deal more than their fair share.  They call this Freedom, and it is obvious how effective a Propaganda can be created to make this seem like a fine and wonderful thing.  But "Freedom" is nothing more than the Battle Cry of Barbarism.

Simply look at the World today.  Are not all our problems related to Freedom.  Then, cannot all our problems be solved with Cooperative Planning and the popular acceptance of Moral Restrictions and the acceptance of a code emphasizing a degree of self-sacrifice.

Seen in this Light, than 2008 will be when thing will begin to get 'better'.  Then later, when the Aquarian Age again brings in the rot of Freedom, things will again to begin to slide downhill again toward the conquest of the poor by the Rich, what is known as 'Freedom'.   

[Arn de Gothia]

"Freedom" is nothing more than the Battle Cry of Barbarism.

I like that. Well, freedom to me is to be totally sovereign and independent and that is not allowed in this world, we are really slaves

[andonitxo]

Since when do planet positions influence political events?

You are in an astral projection forum and you don't know planet's influence yet... really curious.

[andonitxo]

You talk about Freedom as a good thing.

And it is, indeed.

Who was ever freer than Atilla the Hun or Genghis Khan?  Every Civilization that had ever Collapsed, fell when the Doctrines of Freedom lead the way to the conquests of Barbarism.

Civilizations do not rise on Freedom.  Civilizations rise on institutions that guarantee collective security, and foster community cooperation and moral sacrifice.   As Civilizations turn over-ripe and then rot, the Powerful and Wealthy Classes attempt to erode the Collective Institutions and notions of Self-Sacrifice, so they may increase their personal profits and accrue a great deal more than their fair share.  They call this Freedom, and it is obvious how effective a Propaganda can be created to make this seem like a fine and wonderful thing.  But "Freedom" is nothing more than the Battle Cry of Barbarism.

And individual won't learn by being imposed. If you want to sacrifice to achieve something for the good of the comunity it must flourish from deep inside yourself. That's the correct way of learning, even if you need lives and lives to understand that.

Simply look at the World today.  Are not all our problems related to Freedom.  Then, cannot all our problems be solved with Cooperative Planning and the popular acceptance of Moral Restrictions and the acceptance of a code emphasizing a degree of self-sacrifice.

Seen in this Light, than 2008 will be when thing will begin to get 'better'.  Then later, when the Aquarian Age again brings in the rot of Freedom, things will again to begin to slide downhill again toward the conquest of the poor by the Rich, what is known as 'Freedom'.   

Your words sound just like those of a fascist. Here, in Spain, my grandmother suffered from imposition in a dictatorship. She had no good education, no enough food, had to work like a beast to survive and many of her children died. If that's your way of living you're insane.

[Mydral]

You are in an astral projection forum and you don't know planet's influence yet... really curious.

Its never been proven and so I can choose in what I believe. Astral Projection has nothing to do with planet positions in my opinion.

[Hannah b]

Its never been proven and so I can choose in what I believe. Astral Projection has nothing to do with planet positions in my opinion.

and tell me Mydral, has Astral Projection ever been proven?

[Selski]

and tell me Mydral, has Astral Projection ever been proven?

No, but as Mydral states - he can choose in what he believes.  If either were proven, then it would be a bit daft not believing it.  Neither are, therefore Mydral has free will to choose whether he wants to believe or not.

I also don't see the connection between astral projection and the planets' influence.  Again, my opinion, my belief.



Sarah

[andonitxo]

I also don't see the connection between astral projection and the planets' influence.  Again, my opinion, my belief.

I was quite incredulous about astrology time ago, since I met a friend who has been demonstrating its veracity on a daily basis doing predictions about my life that have been verified.

So, if we assume there's an structure of energy layers, called planes, they must extend outside our planet to others. So Venus, Mars or whatever spacial body must have a similar energy pattern. I'm always talking about this solar system, and if the energy provided by the sun is the same, there must be some similarity, always in etheric terms, in between them all.

Think of a TV, as an example. The old ones produced images shooting electrons against a surface. The electron's direction was changed thanks to a magnetos, programmed to alter its path to impact a certain point.

We know what happen to sound waves, light waves, and so on. So, what the Sun produces impacts in every planet of our system shaping a certain energetic pattern depending on their position.

Astronomers say that if we take a spacial body out of our solar system the entire structure will alter due to the subtle equilibrium of tensions they have.

That's my viewpoint, and right now I have an energy-image of the solar system where all is interconnected. A movement in Saturn changes the patter in the whole and so on.

One last thing. Scientist discovered that when the Sun has solar spots the crops are more abundant. It throws some particles that affect how life evolve, and that particles' direction is affected by their surroundings.

Theories, perhaps, but I've been convinced with empirical testing about astrology's effectiveness.

[Leo Volont]

"Freedom" is nothing more than the Battle Cry of Barbarism.

I like that. Well, freedom to me is to be totally sovereign and independent and that is not allowed in this world, we are really slaves

Your interpretation reminds me to Lucifer's opinion in Milton's Paradise Lost, that Lucifer would rather Reign in Hell than Serve in Heaven.

The Community Spirit, the Giving and the Sharing of Kind and Good People must seem to the Evil and Barbarian Temperament as some kind of imposed Slavery.   Such a dismal interpretation of Service and Self Sacrifice is only a failure of Empathy and Intelligence.

My mother used to work as a Community Volunteer, and during the busy seasons, she would put in full time hours, and yes, at volunteer wages, that is, nothing.   One pillar of the community, a businessman, a realestate barron, he remarked to her, after complementing her on the fine job she was doing, that he could never work that hard for nothing.  She replied that she was not working for nothing.  She was working for People.

You see, that differentiates the Civilized Mentality from the Barbaric.  To the Civilized Person, other People are seen as branches and segments of their very selves -- the sympathy creates a real connection, and Empathy almost equals Identity.  But the Barbarians, islands unto themselves, other people are nothing, or they are seen as commodities. 

[Zante]

Leo, you seem as though you're the staunchly religious type and so that means you tend to respond in your own subjective context as, indeed, you too live on your own island. Now, I like the emphasis on co-creation/community spirit but you should realise it is entirely possible to give your power away to other people, unintentionally, and never realise how draining it can be due to getting lost in your own subjective justification of what is appropriate.

As for what is "barbaric" and what is "civilized", these concepts are far too vague. They're all-encompassing and so you find yourself constantly forced to place the people you meet into one of those two categories. This explains, for instance, Leo, why you have a tendancy to respond negatively to posts, you believe that anyone who does not agree with you is uncivilized. From the previous threads you've started, in some of which I have participated, I can see this to be the case. The fact that your karma rating plumetted to -6 would seem to support this idea but is by no means to be considered as perfect proof.

For instance, this time your reply started with...

Your interpretation reminds me to Lucifer's opinion in Milton's Paradise Lost, that Lucifer would rather Reign in Hell than Serve in Heaven.

This is an awkward way, at best, to relate to someone. Not only is it out of context but you are making an attempt to demonize who you are talking to. To make matters worst, you also make every attempt at seeming balanced in your argument(s) when your true intention is painfully obvious (despite how you might try to justify it). Reality is made subjective by what we believe Leo and you are living proof of it.

Edit: Please stop picking on people.

[Laurece]

Pluto is the planet of transformation and Capricorn is (generally) the sign of politics.  Basically, the political landscape will be changed.  A radical transformation of the political landscape would suggest Obama or Edwards being the next President. 

Kryon (http://www.kryon.com/k_25.html) calls the current president (Bush) merely a "placeholder"...while hinting at better things to come.  Personally, I feel that Bush was only allowed to become President so that (most of) America would see the mistake of voting for a mentally challenged person (much as Regan was) simply because of his ability to have the large block of "grasping at anything that smacks of Jeee-zus" religious right believe anything he'll tell them.

Whoever becomes President in 2009 will be the one at the helm when 2012 arrives.  It's doubtful that a tight-assed, closed-mind Republican will be in office when that day comes.

[Awakened_Mind]

Pluto is the planet of transformation and Capricorn is (generally) the sign of politics.  Basically, the political landscape will be changed.  A radical transformation of the political landscape would suggest Obama or Edwards being the next President. 

Kryon (http://www.kryon.com/k_25.html) calls the current president (Bush) merely a "placeholder"...while hinting at better things to come.  Personally, I feel that Bush was only allowed to become President so that (most of) America would see the mistake of voting for a mentally challenged person (much as Regan was) simply because of his ability to have the large block of "grasping at anything that smacks of Jeee-zus" religious right believe anything he'll tell them.

Whoever becomes President in 2009 will be the one at the helm when 2012 arrives.  It's doubtful that a tight-assed, closed-mind Republican will be in office when that day comes.

I don't mind Ron Paul.


Well I guess you haven't understood the idea of 2012 at all. It's really about the telescopic nature of the evolutionary paradigm. An assymptotic graph of the development of consciousness. The idea that humanity collectively is becoming aware of more at an increasing rate every day. I think it's logical to assume what we consider as important is going to change.

It's like you're trying to say that all times are the same. Come on Leo, you can't be serious?

You talk about Freedom as a good thing.

Who was ever freer than Atilla the Hun or Genghis Khan?  Every Civilization that had ever Collapsed, fell when the Doctrines of Freedom lead the way to the conquests of Barbarism.

Civilizations do not rise on Freedom.  Civilizations rise on institutions that guarantee collective security, and foster community cooperation and moral sacrifice.   As Civilizations turn over-ripe and then rot, the Powerful and Wealthy Classes attempt to erode the Collective Institutions and notions of Self-Sacrifice, so they may increase their personal profits and accrue a great deal more than their fair share.  They call this Freedom, and it is obvious how effective a Propaganda can be created to make this seem like a fine and wonderful thing.  But "Freedom" is nothing more than the Battle Cry of Barbarism.

Simply look at the World today.  Are not all our problems related to Freedom.  Then, cannot all our problems be solved with Cooperative Planning and the popular acceptance of Moral Restrictions and the acceptance of a code emphasizing a degree of self-sacrifice.

Seen in this Light, than 2008 will be when thing will begin to get 'better'.  Then later, when the Aquarian Age again brings in the rot of Freedom, things will again to begin to slide downhill again toward the conquest of the poor by the Rich, what is known as 'Freedom'.   

This is the basically the argument that all times are the same. I disagree.

-AM