'Advanced' Civilizations

[LightBeam]

Sometimes I fantasize that I am a descendant of the Atlanteans LOL. I wonder if any lost civilizations would have had a specific gene expressions. Like Ancestry can tell the percentage of DNA in each individual from all parts of the world. They all have been identified, but I wonder if in some people they detect DNA that is not common or unidentifiable.  I am about to send my sample to 23 and me.

[Xanth]

Oooooooooooooooooooh!!  DON'T DO IT!!

23andme is about to give access of their entire genetic database to the pharmaceutical industry.

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/xwkaz3/23andme-sold-access-to-your-dna-library-to-big-pharma-but-you-can-opt-out

Not a chance in hell I'd ever do one of these genetic tests.  You couldn't pay me enough.

[LightBeam]

That's ok, they will use this info for research. No harm will be done for the people who gave the samples, but if they find traits or patterns to figure out how to create more effective medicine then that would help humanity overall. Lets face it, as much as I believe they are looking for maintenance and not cures on purpose, medicine still helps millions of people. Every person in this planet had used some form of pharmaceutical products and have found benefits. As far as making this database available to the government, still ok with that. I am not planning to commit crimes and be afraid that I will be caught that way.

[Nameless]

I can see where that information could be a boon to R and D plus perhaps explaining our origins. But there is also high risk value as well. I can see discrimination of people with certain markers for traits or diseases. Insurance companies would likely want this information.

But would be cool to know 'who I am' so to speak so might do it anyway. I figure at some point they'll be using DNA info with or without our permission every time we visit a doctor or hospital or even the Blood Bank. Like everything else it's just a chance you take.

But boy I wonder how much hounding I'll get once they know I'm part dolphin. LOL

[LightBeam]

I think if the technology was available at the start of WW2 and Hitler did his DNA test, there wouldn't have been a war at all haha.

I am not afraid of discrimination, as we are becoming acceptant of all kinds of things, that even 50 years ago would have been taboo. As far as insurance companies checking your profile, the scientists themselves are warning people when they do their health DNA profile to NOT take into serious consideration any possible positive traits for certain diseases possibilities because these traits that they have studied so far are based on a small number of groups, and also factors such as lifestyle, environment and eating habits strongly influence your DNA predisposition and overall health.

[Xanth]

That's ok, they will use this info for research. No harm will be done for the people who gave the samples, but if they find traits or patterns to figure out how to create more effective medicine then that would help humanity overall. Lets face it, as much as I believe they are looking for maintenance and not cures on purpose, medicine still helps millions of people. Every person in this planet had used some form of pharmaceutical products and have found benefits. As far as making this database available to the government, still ok with that. I am not planning to commit crimes and be afraid that I will be caught that way.

Research... right up until the Insurance Industry gets their hands on it.
Then you'll be refused insurance simply because you have a genetic abnormality or a greater chance of <such and such> disease...
Mark my words, it'll happen.

[Lumaza]

Research... right up until the Insurance Industry gets their hands on it.
Then you'll be refused insurance simply because you have a genetic abnormality or a greater chance of <such and such> disease...
Mark my words, it'll happen.

It already does occur. MJ had 2 different forms of Cancer, totally independent of each other. They wanted to do genetic tests as well. We found out that the outcome of those tests would actually be accessible by the Insurance Companies and MJ's sons and their kids all the way down the line would be effected by it. We said, "no thanks"!

They always have good selling points and try to tell you that they care about you, just like Car commercials try to tug at the heart strings, but in the end, they are a business. The medical community considers people "statistics". They gave MJ 8 months to live, two years ago, even if she had Chemo, which she refused. The Cancer went away by itself, without medical intervention. She did stop smoking, stopped eating sugar and ate healthier though. She also began reading books on Spirituality. But the biggest thing was, she didn't "buy in" to their diagnosis at all. She never gave up or gave in to it.

[Nameless]

Research... right up until the Insurance Industry gets their hands on it.
Then you'll be refused insurance simply because you have a genetic abnormality or a greater chance of <such and such> disease...
Mark my words, it'll happen.

Yep - this

We found out that the outcome of those tests would actually be accessible by the Insurance Companies and MJ's sons and their kids all the way down the line would be effected by it. We said, "no thanks"!

Exactly

[LightBeam]

Thanks for your input everyone. I haven't sent the sample yet, so I will hold off and think about it. I'm just so curious to know which parts f the world my DNA originates from. I am predominantly Eastern European, but I wonder if I have middle eastern DNA since our country was under Turkish occupation for over 500 years.

[BranStark]

It already does occur. MJ had 2 different forms of Cancer, totally independent of each other. They wanted to do genetic tests as well. We found out that the outcome of those tests would actually be accessible by the Insurance Companies and MJ's sons and their kids all the way down the line would be effected by it. We said, "no thanks"!

They always have good selling points and try to tell you that they care about you, just like Car commercials try to tug at the heart strings, but in the end, they are a business. The medical community considers people "statistics". They gave MJ 8 months to live, two years ago, even if she had Chemo, which she refused. The Cancer went away by itself, without medical intervention. She did stop smoking, stopped eating sugar and ate healthier though. She also began reading books on Spirituality. But the biggest thing was, she didn't "buy in" to their diagnosis at all. She never gave up or gave in to it.

I usually really like and appreciate your posts and your insights but with this one, I am really bewildered. As a future medical doctor who just went through a whole semester of oncology, I believe I really should point out the facts that you seem to be unaware of.

As you know, because I have discussed this situation with you before, I am tremendously sympathetic about this situation and I am really happy for you that it turned out the way it did.

With that being said, I think that the decision not to undergo genetic testing was really (and I am sorry to say so) reckless.

It is highly unusual to have two independent forms of cancer at the same time. I am not sure why you were suspicious of the doctors' motives trying to order the genetic test, but if such situation occurs, the warning bell "genetics" just starts screeching in the head of any decent doctor. And rightfully so. It might be just a coincidence or a somatic mutation. But chances are, there might have been a germ-line mutation at play which might or might not have been passed on to the offspring(s). If that were indeed true, then depending on the type of mutation, the offsprings could be in either moderate or grave danger of getting some sort of cancer too!

The purpose of genetic testing is to catch these cases before it is too late. What follows is not a merciless giveaway of the information to insurance companies and exclusion from the healthcare system (that is what could have happened in Nazi Germany if they had not favoured immediate murder of these people instead). What happens is that a thorough follow up is established with regular checks. And it arguably has invaluable merit! The thing is that for most cancers, the rule is that when you have methastases further than in regional lymph nodes, you are a dead man walking. It is a sad truth that contemporary medicine has no way of curing the illness at this stage, it can only prolong the life-expectancy. There are exceptions to this rule, such as seminoma (testicular cancer) or some types of cancer affecting children, but it sadly applies to most cancers. But with regular checks, you can catch it early and save a life.

And the problem is that you cannot possibly rely on spontaneous regression each time. It is true that I asked you about your case and what kind of changes were made and it definitely cannot be ruled out that they played a role in the regression. However, causality and correlation are not interchangable. There are countless cases of people who also refused conventional treatment, became more spiritual, adjusted they diet and they died anyway... and much earlier than they probably would have with the treatment. The fact is, that we just don't know what is behind this spontaneous regression phenomenon. BTW there are some plausible theories based on immunological processes and we will see in the future if they are right or wrong. Maybe there is indeed a very specific set of conditions that your wife met including some very specific spiritual excercises which are necessary for it to occur. That is why I turned to you in the first place. But we just cannot know anything for sure from one case.

I am definitely not judgmental of anyone who does this thing if the treatment doesn't offer any chance of being cured. Heck, I have been there myself with my loved ones. The hardest decision to be made! But when it comes to genetic testing which can prevent  this from happening to close relatives, I don't find the choice hard at all. And as it is hopefully obvious from the paragraph above, it would be extremely hazardous, to say the very least, to expect that spontaneous regression would work for them as well.

Two more remarks:

It is true that insurance companies want to make money. On the other hand, if they were not oriented on generating profit, they would go bankrupt and there would be nobody to buy the insurance from. For instance, I live in a country where health insurance is socialized and there are no insurance companies in the true sense. They are actually controlled by the state and you cannot really choose your own health plan. You don't have the option to pay more and include let's say biological therapy in the covering of your potential cancer treatment. And you are at the mercy of the state and what they put into the universal health plan for everyone, which you are required to pay for, yet have zero say on. So to argue that the existence of profit-oriented insurance companies is immoral or unethical doesn't stand up to reality. With that being said, I seriously doubt that anywhere in the western world, you would be stripped of your health plan that you already have based on newly-discovered genetic mutation. I might be wrong. But that would also have to include the insurance company learning about it from you or your doctors. For the latter, I believe that would be a case of breaching the patient-doctor confidentiality, which is punishable by law.

As for the doctors viewing patients as mere statistics: I cannot speak for everybody, but I sure as hell don't! But the ethical code dictates that you must not lie to the patient. You might withhold some information if that might benefit the patient or if the patient doesn't want to know. But you must tell the truth. And there is no more reliable source of information than statistics. Surely, each patient is different, there is also the possibility of spontaneous regression, however unlikley that might be. But you cannot possibly say in advance how each and every individual patient will fare. So the statistics is the only thing you have. And you cannot possibly promise the patient to cure him or her if you know that every single case so far ended badly. So you have to tell the most honest estimate, based on statistics unless they really don't want to know. And it is sure as hell important, because for terminally ill, every day counts and it is a very valuable information for them, because they can organize the rest of their lives accordingly. They know how much time they have to reconcile with that relative they haven't spoken to in 20 years, to visit that country they always wanted to go to... And so on. It is much more complex than just "doctors see you just as a number in their statistics." Some of them do, but that means they are bad doctors. And just like n any other profession or social group, they are good ones and bad ones.

[funfire]

Not a chance in hell I'd ever do one of these genetic tests.  You couldn't pay me enough.

I completely agree, literally by giving someone your genitic information is extremely dangerous, any smart person would be able to cross refrence everyones data and easily predict 90% of what people would do in specific scenarios. any and every smart government should be using this to their own advantage, unless their just being kind and not looking and im kewl with that, but I don't think this is the case.

Not only is this kinda messed up that companys are doing this, but people don't even get highly paid for it, but they have the nerve to pawn it off as helping them figure out who they are, isn't living the process of discorvering who you are? lol.

Even simple doctor check ups, its stupid, everyone just assumes they should be paying for their own personal health, but the data all doctors obtain is way more valuble then a couple hundred bucks, for a small check up. feels grossly decietful and an abuse in trust in humanity itself.

[BranStark]

I am sorry if my comment yesterday seemed too harsh. I really know how hard this kind of situation is. I was not trying to judge anyone, I was trying to help. Given my background, I wanted to provide context that you might not be aware of. I even considered it my duty. There are, undeniably, people's lives at stake. So I took it very seriously.

My family was also subject to genetic testing because of an uncommon cancer. It has been a lege artis procedure in these cases for quite some time. It is nothing new. I yet have to hear about anyone who came to harm as a result of this. On the other hand, lives have been saved because of this.

Speaking of 23 and me, I agree with you. I wouldn't feel comfortable giving my DNA to someone like this either. Posssible risks are probably still small, but greater than benefits.