Aquarius - The Age of evil

[Rudolph]

As someone who grew up in the catholic church (my father went to seminary school, and I went to catholic church from kindergarten to highschool.)- so if I learned something about the catholic religion I did it from the catholic church.

This is an old line of baloney that I get from ignorant Catholics all the time. Neurotic, self-loathing Catholics have the right to wallow in self hatred all they want but publicly spreading destructive hate mongering, lies about Church history is NOT okay, in my book. You may have learned that the Crusades happened but it appears you have forgotten why. "Cultural expansion"  !! hahahahahahahahah!! what a joke! The Muslim expansion was violent WARFARE bent on military CONQUEST and an attempt at world domination. (Amazing just how DEEP the denial can run).

You are nitpicking about the catholic church and acting as if I were attacking it.

Refuting a giant, bald faced, bigoted LIE is not a nitpik. And spreading hate-speech *is* an attack on the Church.

I am talking about religion in general- about what happens when religion has the power to dictate laws, as it happens in islamic nations nowadays.
I could have easily added reformation persecution to the mix- the persecution of catholics by the newly-started protestant church- the existence of the Malleus Maleficarus, and other fun things- but I didn't because I didn't realize everyone had to be included before some devout person would spring up to defend the religion of their choice, because that is almost besides the point.

Again, you are wrong. I am not devout by any means and I am not defending the religion of my choice (I chose to leave my childhood religion decades ago when I turned 18). I am pointing out giant bald faced lies, hatespeech, bigotry and neurotic, self loathing pathology.

The fact is that the crusades began as 'self defense' against cultural invasion- what is known as bigotry nowadays- and it went from self defense to religious war and killing people for the hell of it

No. It was a counter-attack against a full on Muslim military invasion of Europe. Read your history again.

- to the point of horrible things like the Children's Crusades.  Are you going to tell me this was not blasphemous in and of itself?

Not only was it NOT blasphemous, most of what you think you know about it probably never happened;

According to more recent research there seem to have actually been two movements of people (of all ages) in 1212 in Germany and France.[1][2] The similarities of the two allowed later chroniclers to combine and embellish the tales.

In the first movement, Nicholas, a shepherd from Germany, led a group across the Alps and into Italy in the early spring of 1212. About 7,000 arrived in Genoa in late August. However, their plans did not bear fruit when the waters failed to part as promised, and the band broke up. Some left for home, others may have gone to Rome, and some may have travelled along the coast to Marseilles, where they were probably sold into slavery. Few returned home and none reached the Holy Land.

The second movement was led by a 14 year old French shepherd boy named Stephan of Cloyes, who claimed in June that he bore a letter for the king of France from Jesus. Attracting a crowd of over 30,000 he went to Saint-Denis, where he was seen to work miracles. On the orders of Philip II, on the advice of the University of Paris, the crowd was sent home, and most of them went. None of the contemporary sources mention plans to go to Jerusalem.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Crusade



I have long suspected something odd about the blatant and rampant anti-Catholic bigotry in the world today. Then I saw a good book that offers some astute observations on the phenomenon;

The New Anti-Catholicism: The Last Acceptable Prejudice  written by Philip Jenkins

Anyway, you are misdirecting this thread, pushing ideological points that are not adding to this,

I was not trying to *add* or pile on to the long running hate fest that I saw emerging -- I merely tried to subtract a common lie and set the record straight.

If the moderator wants to move this to the religion area, I would be fine with that.

[CFTraveler]

The New Anti-Catholicism: The Last Acceptable Prejudice

It seems to me that you are being very good at missing the point.  But anyway, I'll just add that  in modern times the last 'acceptable' prejudice is gay-bashing- from mostly everyone, religious or not.

[Rudolph]

It seems to me that you are being very good at missing the point.  But anyway, I'll just add that  in modern times the last 'acceptable' prejudice is gay-bashing- from mostly everyone, religious or not.

I got your point just fine. My point is simply that in the course of making your point you were perpetuating bigoted lies and hate speech.

Note how you never acknowledged my refutations of your falsehoods and my clear demonstrations of just how FALSE your claims were. How hard would it be to say, "gee! thanks... I did not know that. I guess I had been completely duped by all those anti-Catholic bigots out there but now I know better".  ?

I have always found that the more bigoted people are, the more obstinately they cling to the lies, falsehoods and hate-speech that they use to give themselves permission to hate.

I think someone would have to be delusional to think, "that  in modern times the last 'acceptable' prejudice is gay-bashing- from mostly everyone, religious or not."   

One does not even have to make a bigoted comment about gays to be condemned as a bigot. Simply disagreeing with any tiny part of the gay agenda is enough to be labeled a homophobe! and attacked poste haste from all sides within minutes, if not seconds. But spew anti-Catholic bigotry all day long and almost no one will mention it.

[Xanth]

Friends...
Everyone has their own point of view... we're friends here folks. 

[kailaurius]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mgtc_Dhnlr0

watch this video and tell me what you think ? I'm not a christian by the way im not taking any sides just watching this video with a open mind

Interesting video.  Thanks for the link.  The video appears to display quite a bit of fear from other belief systems that appears to pose a threat to their own.  Also, I feel the presenter somewhat misunderstands the crucial significance of global unification towards harmony with nature and this planet.

Here's some videos I found to be quite entertaining and very informative giving their thoughts on our situation leading into a shift into a "New Age" so to speak:

Spirit Science 12_1 - The Rise of Atlantis

Spirit Science 12_2 - Atlantean Catastrophe

Spirit Science 12_3 - The Solution

Spirit Science 12_4 - The Fall

Spirit Science 12_5 - The New Beginning

[CFTraveler]

Note how you never acknowledged my refutations of your falsehoods and my clear demonstrations of just how FALSE your claims were.

That's the problem with you- you immediately made it personal.  My 'claims' (I never made any claims, I simply mentioned well-known historic incidents) were not refuted, they were denied with ad-hominems- "ignorant anti-catholic people" and when I revealed that I had an extensive catholic background, then you insulted me (and other nonpracticing catholics).  Basically it was "if they say it it must not be true because they are so- and so".  That's not a refutation.  I didn't single out catholic events, I included them in instances in which religions perpetrate acts on 'others'.
Anyway, I'm leaving this conversation, not because of any 'facts' but because you have made it about something else altogether, and insulted me and a bunch of other people, making it personal.
Bye.
Sorry Ryan, for continuing, but now I'm done.

[Rudolph]

That's the problem with you- you immediately made it personal.  My 'claims' (I never made any claims, I simply mentioned well-known historic incidents) were not refuted, they were denied with ad-hominems- "ignorant anti-catholic people" and when I revealed that I had an extensive catholic background, then you insulted me (and other nonpracticing catholics).

You are wrong again, CFT. Yet another unsubstantiated accusation. I made no ad hominems. Why do so many people falsely accuse me like this?... I have a theory but then I would only digress even further were I to explain. I did not make it immediately 'personal' at all. I merely made a general comment about the generic anti-Catholic bigot's standard modus operandi or a comment about the neurotic self loathing often seen in certain groups. I did NOT accuse you directly of any such thing... but if the shoe fits... you a free to wear it -- if you could find a pair of cajones to match! 

I think covert bigots lost in deep denial (and perpetrating their destructive lies behind a facade of respectable ideological pretense) are far more objectionable than open, honest bigots.

I never made a reference to "ignorant anti-catholic people" like that, CFT! Your accusation borders on an outright aggressive destructive LIE. I too was raised Catholic and educated in the Church by nuns and at the age of 18 simply stopped going to church and shortly thereafter took Initiation in an Eastern Yoga School that I practiced for nearly two decades. So... if you don't mind... get off your HIGH and ridiculously absurd "I was raised Catholic so I have the right to spew all the most putrid, stinking, destructive LIES about the Church that I dang well please" horse. !
okay?
I've heard that one before and it is pure BS.

Basically it was "if they say it it must not be true because they are so- and so".  That's not a refutation.

Ummm... basically NO it wasn't that at all. If you actually had a valid point based on fact you would present it or quote something I actually said and ask for a source or show outright how it was not so... but you did not do that because what I said was true. And what you said was FALSE. Like it or not CFT, I soundly refuted your anti-Catholic bigotry in no uncertain fashion.

(I have also noticed over the years that those lost in deep denial can not even recognize when their cherished falsehoods have been clearly refuted).

I didn't single out catholic events, I included them in instances in which religions perpetrate acts on 'others'.

You sorta did - you mentioned the completely justified  act of self defense commonly known as the Crusades and referenced it in the same breath with some whacked out connection to some completely irrelevant death contract.

Anyway, I'm leaving this conversation, not because of any 'facts' but because you have made it about something else altogether, and insulted me and a bunch of other people, making it personal.
Bye.
Sorry Ryan, for continuing, but now I'm done.

I insulted no one and did not make it personal. I pointed out blatant bigotry and falsehoods. For those who take their bigotry to heart in a personal way it may come across as a personal insult but it is really just a simple communication in objective impersonal fashion about a very DARK SIDE of modern Western society.

Those with the heart to face it honestly will not be offended.

For this commitment to Truth I make no apologies.