Excellent NOVA Show about magnetic reversal...

[Synergy]

Yes we are already in the midst of a pole reversal!

Just watched the show 'Magnetic Storm' by Nova, for the second time now.  It shows that we are already in the midst of a reversal - the field is weakening, and there is already one large anomoly in the south Atlantic ocean.

As the scientists said in the show... its not a matter of if... but of when!

link to the Nova Website:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/magnetic/

could 2012 be the year it happens??

[Zante]

Eeee :p

I just found a torrent for this, I'm going to watch it asap.

*Excitement*

[Stookie]

I watched some of that last night and it was pretty good. They said it would happen, not in our lifetime, but maybe our children's children would see it. You would see the aurora borealis nearly everywhere in the world, and maybe a slight increase in cancer from a slight increase in radiation, but other than that, all would be the same.

But 2 lifetimes away is a microsecond of the earth's lifetime. It could be sooner than that...

[Zante]

Just got through watching it, very informative. I loved being shown how pottery and molten rock (once cooled) can hold so much information regarding the situation of Earth's magnetic field throughout history.

They weren't so big on dates I noticed, they preferred to talk about large chunks of time as that was about as accurate as the measurements could get.

2012?

Maybe!

Edit:

One thing that bothered me was how little attention they gave the Sun. The field of the sun is huge and supposedly surrounds the earth. We know that the presence of the Sun has an affect on the base conditions of Earth (durrr), just not how much the Sun's field contributes to it. Heck, the Sun might even be what magnetized the core to begin with (or not).

There were quite a few variables left out. Then again I might have the wrong idea about it. It just seemed odd to treat it as a matter of little importance.

[jub jub]

My compass is still pointing North so I'm cool! 

[Novice]

Just got through watching it

Where did you find a link for download? The only things I saw on the Nova site were trailers and clips.

[Mattimo]

Search for "magnetic storm" over @ www.btjunkie.com to watch the clip or visit any other torrent search engine of your choice

[Ilieawake]

I do believe the magnet resonance comes from the massive iron core the earth contains.  It blocks solar radiation.

[Zante]

I do believe the magnet resonance comes from the massive iron core the earth contains.  It blocks solar radiation.

I think you misunderstand me.

It does, from what we can see of it anyway. They never addressed the magnetic field of the sun though. The Sun's field extends beyond even Pluto and that's probably why it's "easy to miss" when you're trying to understand everything from within its influence. So we are a field within a field and when magnetics is involved it begs all sorts of questions regarding how they interact.

[MisterJingo]

Do a search on magnetic fields which encompass entire galaxies - it's very interesting reading.

[Zante]

Thank you for the insight : ) Will do.

[Ilieawake]

I didn't misunderstand.  The earths magnetic resonance blocks out the suns field.  Not to be insulting but I just assumed you knew more or you could look it up from what I told you. 

I am not sure of the exact frequency but they negate each other, earth/sun.  The magnetic force is from the molten iron in the core.  Although it is not fully understood computer models have simulated it with a high degree of accuracy.  The science behind it is that the molten core circulates and convects which causes the field.  The outer part of the core is cooling and becoming solid while still other parts are again melting.  This is very unstable.  The core's rotation is prone to change directions because of the unstability.  It rotates, using an analogy, similiar to the weather and the oceans, so basically its based on the earth's rotation.

I hope that helped.

Other than knowing what I just told you, the other reason I disagreed with your hypothesis is because if the suns magnetic field contributed to the earth's then it would work in congruency with the earth's and not in direct opposition.  Obviously the sun affects the earth but I don't believe it contributed the magnetic field.

[Zante]

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that I believe the Earth doesn't generate a magnetic field of it's own or that it isn't in conflict with Solar Wind. I'm just saying that it's hard to fully understand the process as everything we can study up close has come into contact with the Sun's magnetic field at one time or another. So despite what you may believe currently, there's no way to tell for sure.

The Sun's dipolar field is about as strong as a refrigerator magnet, or 50 gauss. Earth's magnetic field is supposedly 100 times weaker. That tends to imply that the Sun would have an affect on the behaviour of the Earth's field as they're constantly interacting with one another in ways we don't fully understand. The Sun's magnetic field/IMF (interplanetary magnetic field) ,while weaker over distance, is huge (hence the term interplanetary). While the IMF is kept out of most of our magnetosphere the interaction of the two plays a major role in the flow of energy from the solar wind to the Earth's environment. I'm not a scientist but I know that it's possible to magnetize some materials with nothing but another magnet (Sun -> Earth maybe). I'm just saying that the condition of the Sun's field may affect the Earth's in more ways than simply contributing to the shape of it's magnetosphere and generating the aurora borealis.

To quote an excerpt from this article on the Nasa website...

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/themis/auroras/sun_earth_connect.html

Sometimes the magnetosphere stores more energy than it can release in a slow manner and something inside the magnetotail "breaks" and waves and currents are generated that trigger the beautiful and mysterious dancing aurora that we've been talking about on these THEMIS science pages. THEMIS will solve the long standing mystery as to what triggers this energy release in the magnetotail that leads to an auroral substorm.

So clearly it has an affect of some sort. Solar wind is a state of matter called plasma (which is magnetically charged) and carries the magnetic field of the sun. It's not just pure magnetics but other variables too which are involved in this case. I'm just saying that there's a lot we don't know regarding the operation of the Earth's magnetic field and that there wasn't enough acknowledgement of all the different variables involved with it during the documentary.

Edit: Sorry if I still don't understand what you are saying. I'm not trying to refute anyone, I'm just saying that there's a lot we don't know yet.

[Ilieawake]

I think I know what your saying, but the reason I said what I did was because you said that the sun may have magnetized the core to begin with.  My other point was is that they have done computer simulated models to show how the earth can generate a magnetic field due to its rotation and molten outter core and solid inner. 

Also if I remember right... the sun's field, as could be measured in gauss, is on average twice as high as the earths.  There are spots that are extremely active though.  They have a huge magnetic field, like the solar flares or the hot spots on the sun, but on an average only twice as strong.

[Synergy]

The Sun's magnetic field does extend beyond pluto... it's called the heliosphere and takes about 1 yr for the megnetic field to reach the furthest reaches of the solar system. 

The sun-spot cycle, or solar minimum and solar maximum are due to the magnetic anomalies on the sun.  Sun spots are actually large areas of magnetic flux flowing in the opposite direction of the dipole magnetic field.  The Sun recently went through a magnetic reversal itself... and does so every solar maximum.  The most recent was 2001.  Scientists use it as a guide that solar max has indeed occurred.

The Suns field is about 50 gauss... about the strenght of a magnet that youd put on the refridgerator.  The Earth's field is 100 times weaker.  The Suns field DOES interact with our own... producing magnetic storms.  As our own magnetic field decreases prior to a reversal, the Sun's megnetic field will have more of an impact on us.

As for how the field was created on earth?  The Nova Show sais that its a 360 degree continual loop.  The movement of the core material produces electrical currents, which produces the magnetic field,... which in turn produces electrical currents... which produces magnetic field.... how it got started though?? They are not sure.  The Sun's field may have started it up to begin with.... kind of like stroking a needle with a magnet to magnetize it.  One thing they do know is that if the movement within the core stops... our field will dissintegrate.  That's what happened to Mars... and no field = atmosphere slowly dissipating.  Not good....  I like to think of reversals in this way:  Remember the little 'drinking' duck that you place beside a cup, start him moving and then he will drink, drink, drink from the cup until he gets full, swings back and starts again?  He will keep moving once you start him off and will go until you stop him.  I like to think of magnetic reversals as the point where the bird swings back and starts over. 

The question is.... can a serious solar maximum influence the already weakening field of earth, and 'cause' a reversal on earth??  The maximum in 2012 coincides with a venus transit which will act as a lens focusing even more of the solar winds on us!!

[Leo Volont]

I watched some of that last night and it was pretty good. They said it would happen, not in our lifetime, but maybe our children's children would see it. You would see the aurora borealis nearly everywhere in the world, and maybe a slight increase in cancer from a slight increase in radiation, but other than that, all would be the same.

But 2 lifetimes away is a microsecond of the earth's lifetime. It could be sooner than that...

Stookie here seems to be making the best point, that is, that it doesn't seem to matter much.

With GPS being used for all Navigational Requirements, it hardly matters whether the magnetic needles are pointing north or south or anywhere in particular at all.

And Atmosphere is held in place by Gravity.  Mars lost its Atmosphere because it has far less gravity than earth.  It lost its magnetic field because the planet cooled.  Apparently Magneticism requires something of a moltent furous core.

But such arguments hardly matter, since Stookie's point seems to eclipse all such considerations.  Not enough will change so that it is in any way worth worrying about. 

[Ilieawake]

I completely agree with Leo, but I feel the need to correct some of the things Synergy said.

Synergy, you just said that the sun could have started our magnetic field and then you went to say that it is created by the core rotating producing electrical current which in turn produces magnetic field.  Now if you want to say that the suns magnetic field caused the core to start to rotate then okay but it is even more unprobable, and the analogy to stroking a needle to a magnetic... oh nm I don't even want to touch on that one.

Now don't get me wrong I am thorougly impressed that everyone knows how to use the internet to look up stuff which can help to enrich the mind but use some of your own reasoning too.   There is quite a bit of what you said that doesnt even make sense.  A better idea to help everyone is to just post a link to where you found the information instead of pretending you are an expert in the field or that you even have a general concept of it and posting it like it is from your own memory.  I put in 50 gauss in google and you both tried to quote a lot from that site.  Although I haven't read it all it may be referring to the magnetic flux density at the poles.

But here is what it says out of my astronomy text book:
Typical magnetic field strengths for various parts of the Sun

Polar Field = 1 - 2 Gauss
Sunspots = 3000 Gauss
Prominences = 10 - 100 Gauss

And in case you still don't believe me another unit for the measurement of magnetic flux is the tesla and you can do a search on that one too and find that it is 10 to the -4th power. The same as 1 gauss.

But in the same respect I agree with Leo.  All that is, on the whole, unimportant when you consider the larger aspect.  I just wanted to make sure people had a more scientific point of you view versus just some stuff people read off the 'net.

[Synergy]

The part about the Sun possibly starting the whole loop... I got that off the Nova Show. 

I got the basics about the suns magnetic field off this site:

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast15feb_1.htm

I in no way pretend to be an expert, just someone who is genuinely interested. 

My point was that the suns field DOES influence us greatly.  And I was wondering if the maximum in 2012 coinciding with the Venus transit (acting like a lens), and our weaking field (we already have anomolies showing up) will act as a catalyst to cause a reversal here on earth to happen much more quickly than usual??  It was a question....

[Zante]

Hmm?

I can see that there're some points of contention here (regarding exact figures) but they're irrelivant. The reason I stated that information was in order to put things into perspective regarding the Sun's range of influence and what we don't know regarding the processing of Earth's magnetic field (from the moment it began to the time it could theoretically end).

It's a small point I made in the first stages of this thread but it seems disagreable to some of you which is fair enough.

I don't see why it should be taken out of context like this. All I'm referencing here is the misconception that current science is able to understand the entire working(s) of our Solar system.