David Icke - NEW YORK - SEPTEMBER 11th 2004

[SomeBloke]

I've just finished his book 'The Biggest Secret'.
I can see why he is called 'the world's most controversial and challenging speaker!'  

He thinks the British Royal family conspired to assasinate Princess Diana in a staged car-crash with a wealth of esoteric symbolism surrounding it.  Today the memorial to Diana was opened in Hyde Park, and the queen said:

"To find some... way to capture her spirit has been the challenge.
I congratulate those who have created the memorial before us." ...

"I believe that you have given the Park, at the very heart of our capital city that Diana knew so well, a highly original memorial which captures something of the essence of a remarkable human being."

The memorial is a giant granite ring with water flowing around it.
I wonder what David will make of that...



I have to say I am rather incredulous of much of what the book says, but I did have one rather strange experience after reading it.

I was talking to someone about the claims in the book that "the royal family are shape-shifting reptillians from the lower 4th dimension(!)"
This person I have known for ages, he's pretty strait-laced with no apparent interest in anything esoteric.  Our conversation happened as I was passing him a £2 coin, with the queen's head on it.
He reacted as I expected 'oh that nutter David Icke.'
Then he looked thoughtful and turned the coin over where there is a pattern on the reverse, and he said 'hmmm, looks like an Egyptian Sun God.'  That is precisely what David Icke is going on about for much of the book!

[atalanta]

Must be a fool moon out!

[xx(]

Dang, I just tripped over my long green tail!  For the suggestible, I am only kidding!

I wish you well at your gatherings, but sorry, I just can't get serious about this guy.  I am a fairly openminded person but there is nothing to recommend this person or his statements.  If whoever is out there wanted to really help us figure out what was going on a save ourselves, etc, you would think they would have chosen someone like a nobel prize winner or a leader, etc.  Its all we need now, one more fanatical messiah and several thousand zombies to follow him.

All I can do is pray that our government adds psychology, statistics and philosophy to the school curriculum, in the hope that we can innoculate our children against such cults.

I have never taken such a negative stance against anyone or ideas, my motto is everyone is entitled to explore and discover for themselves what they believe.  I am about the most gentle, easygoing, liberal thinking person you can find but this is just too overly the top stupid to take seriously.  I just can't believe that something this far-fetched is being taken seriously and that makes me believe that this is a psychological phenomenon, not an esoteric one.

David, man, damn, I just wish I had thought of this myself first, I'd be rolling in money and adoration.

[no_leaf_clover]

I wish I was old enough to drive up there on my own. [xx(]

[SomeBloke]

Atalanta - you got an extra star for your 100th post congrats.

I just can't believe that something this far-fetched is being taken seriously and that makes me believe that this is a psychological phenomenon, not an esoteric one.

I don't think he is necessarily being taken very seriously by many people, I think from the psychological perspective, the things he says are so stunningly controversial, and involve the rich and famous, that people want to hear what he says.  I'm suprised he hasn't been sued out of existence.  Did you hear the one about Bill Clinton and George 'Dubya' at a sex party?

But he does highlight the fact that the same esoteric symbolism is attached to powerful organisations worldwide.  (I don't think you have to bring lizards into the equation to explain that, we have the freemasons). Also his case for high-profile deaths being government assasinations is something widely believed e.g. JFK.

His basic premise, physically shape-shifting reptillians... I think most people find that unbelievable.  But if you suggested that astral beings were influencing world events, I think very many people would be able to agree with that.

One book was enough for me, I think I get what all the fuss was about.

[no_leaf_clover]

If many people showed up at this just to hear him out, even if they don't believe a thing he says (and if Moore's only telling a fraction of the story but he at least bases his points on things that can be confirmed even with his opinions thrown in over them, I have a feeling a lot of people attending this may be skeptical to say the least), it could be a big step forward for us if we decide to try to do something about the way our government is run (besides vote [xx(] Unfortunately I don't think you can vote away all the corrupt people, parties and programs in our system). Just to put it on peoples' minds to think about, especially in NYC, where the people have been forced into this horrible chain of world events, could be very important.

[atalanta]

NLC, the thing is that we don't need David to tells that governments are corrupt, we all are to some degree.  We have plenty of socially, environmentally and politically conscious people who are telling us day in and out what the government is up to.  

Just this morning there was a ex-military intelligence person who quit the Howard government as advisor because he says that we have no business being in Iraq.  That the whole thing was a deception of gigantic proportions.  He even said in the interview when asked by the host about his opinion about John Howard, that he felt that he was the single most irresponsible politician he knew.  This person in my books has credibility to talk about right and wrong, about corruption, etc.  David Icke is from memory a footballer - I mean, A FOOTBALLER!  What is there to recommend this person as someone who is credible, even if he is talking about world peace and love.  Lots of people talk about love and peace without talking about reptiles from out of space.

Here's a thought, spend the day that you would going to David Icke, working with the disadvantaged instead.  It would be more fruitful, and the money that will be wasted on him, save it and give it to the organisations that help those who suffer the corruption of major governments.

[MONDO]

Atlanta,

I take it you have not read any of David Icke's books. If you have, or you have knowledge of the subjects he discusses, please provide information to prove what Icke writes about is wrong. Please do not just assume that his information is incorrect because it does not fit your belief system or because you have the thought that Icke is full of it because most other people think that to, without actually ever having read any of his books. That doesnt make sense to me.
Also, the reptillian theory is not a new one and is not solely Icke's idea. The 'gods' are described in many ancient cultures as being of the serpant race or dragon headed people. There are many many books on this subject. I'm not saying Icke or anyone else is correct in the rep theory, only that it does warrant some serious thought.
Icke's latest book 'Tales from the Timeloop' is his best IMO, as he discusses in depth the nature of reality, quantum mechanics, holographic theory and how we create our reality individualy and collectively. This information, as you may know is very very old and has been understood and explained using various models, the latest being particle physics etc.
If you dont want to give Icke your money, get one of his books out of your local library, if you wish to have a more solid grounding in which to debate the information that is. If they dont have any, request one and I'm sure they will do what they can to get any Icke book you want. If you are'nt all that interested, simply say that you do not know whether the information is correct or not as you havent read any of the books.
Best wishes to you..

[Moonburn33]

i'm gonna have to agree with mondo, here.  yes, he may be crazy.. but i think that if you can analyze the whole of what this guy is saying then you might find some very interesting seeds of truth.  the lizard theory, however outlandish and based on "anonymous top level security agents" might actually be true.

[no_leaf_clover]

quote: NLC, the thing is that we don't need David to tells that governments are corrupt, we all are to some degree.

Thats absolutely no excuse for a corrupt government.

quote:We have plenty of socially, environmentally and politically conscious people who are telling us day in and out what the government is up to.

And I guess you will believe whatever they tell you without looking into things yourself. Listening to people from the government to find out what kind of things are going on at the moment that we aren't aware of is sort of ignorant to begin with imo.

quote:What is there to recommend this person as someone who is credible, even if he is talking about world peace and love.

I find it humorous that you would require someone to have credibility before you would listen to anything they would have to say about being peaceful and loving. I wasn't implying that people that go to the convention should take everything he says as true, but that it might get the people that attend to think about our current situation more and for themselves. Thinking for themselves meaning both not taking Icke's opinions as their own, nor taking official or unofficial statements from the government or its members or former members as their own, since, after all, they're the ones in question here.

quote:Here's a thought, spend the day that you would going to David Icke, working with the disadvantaged instead. It would be more fruitful, and the money that will be wasted on him, save it and give it to the organisations that help those who suffer the corruption of major governments.

Shouldn't helping the 'disadvantaged' more the job of organizations like the UN, and, here's a thought, our government?, the institution created to organize, protect, support, and represent us? Governments aren't supposed to be for collecting taxes, limiting freedoms and starting wars with other countries just because there's a possibility they might be dangerous. [xx(] Wouldn't it be nice if we just solved the problem itself rather than just fixing what the problem causes?

[atalanta]

quote:Originally posted by MONDO

Atlanta,

I take it you have not read any of David Icke's books. If you have, or you have knowledge of the subjects he discusses, please provide information to prove what Icke writes about is wrong. Please do not just assume that his information is incorrect because it does not fit your belief system or because you have the thought that Icke is full of it because most other people think that to, without actually ever having read any of his books. That doesnt make sense to me.
Also, the reptillian theory is not a new one and is not solely Icke's idea. The 'gods' are described in many ancient cultures as being of the serpant race or dragon headed people. There are many many books on this subject. I'm not saying Icke or anyone else is correct in the rep theory, only that it does warrant some serious thought.
Icke's latest book 'Tales from the Timeloop' is his best IMO, as he discusses in depth the nature of reality, quantum mechanics, holographic theory and how we create our reality individualy and collectively. This information, as you may know is very very old and has been understood and explained using various models, the latest being particle physics etc.
If you dont want to give Icke your money, get one of his books out of your local library, if you wish to have a more solid grounding in which to debate the information that is. If they dont have any, request one and I'm sure they will do what they can to get any Icke book you want. If you are'nt all that interested, simply say that you do not know whether the information is correct or not as you havent read any of the books.
Best wishes to you..

Mondo, its true that I have not read any of his books, but I have been to his official website and it was enough for me to think it of little value and bizarre, and to not bother any further with him.  

I look after two elderly parents and two small children, I can't manage to get past 150 pages of Roberts book, its taken me some four months just to get there.  I don't have time to read and have to be very selective.  I am not about to read Icke's books, since I feel I would benefit better if I read someone elses who can give me the lowdown on corruption in the government, etc, without resorting to reptiles.  

You mentioned reptiles being mentioned in ancient traditions.  It is true, however, that does not mean that we just accept it at face value.  There is a thing as symbolic truths and just plain fantasy.  For example, in India, they still believe that cows and monkeys are sacred, Godlike creatures.  Not many people would agree that that is a true representation of the truth, at least not by the number of butchers around.  These creatures, represent symbolic truths for these people.  Fair enough.

In the late part of the 1800's, it became a craze in genteel society in England to drink the ground up remains of Egyptian mummys.  It was believed that the powder had healing powers for everything from migrains to syphilus.  Plain fantasy.  However, it was widely believed and this form of cannibalism, was prescribed by doctors.  People who should have known better, were the first to be convinced.

So you see, because the ancients had it painted on their walls does not equate with truth or reality.

However, I thank you for your reply.  I mean that honestly.  Your comments are fair.

For No Leaf Clover
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NLC, the thing is that we don't need David to tells that governments are corrupt, we all are to some degree.
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Thats absolutely no excuse for a corrupt government.

NLC, you mistook what I meant.  I meant that corruption as well as good qualities, are part of the human experience.  We are all corrupt and honest.  I think you would find it hard to find someone who believed that any government was squeaky clean.  I meant, I don't need David to tell me that we have a corrupt government.  There is no such thing as an honest government on this planet, since we are all to some measure corrupt and corruptable.  However, that is not excuse, as you say, to not keep an eye out and try and aim for the least corruption possible in our own selves as well in politics.

quote:
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We have plenty of socially, environmentally and politically conscious people who are telling us day in and out what the government is up to.
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And I guess you will believe whatever they tell you without looking into things yourself. Listening to people from the government to find out what kind of things are going on at the moment that we aren't aware of is sort of ignorant to begin with imo.

Again, you misunderstood what I meant.  I meant that there are some people honest enough both inside politics and outside politics as well as environmentalists, law makers, etc, which help to expose corruption and stem the possibility of corruption.  However, of course, it still goes on, we can only try.  By the way, you are talking to someone who does know how the government can be corrupt as I have had reason to fight the government myself and had cause to take the government to the Human Rights Commission.  You see, I have looked into things myself.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What is there to recommend this person as someone who is credible, even if he is talking about world peace and love.
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I find it humorous that you would require someone to have credibility before you would listen to anything they would have to say about being peaceful and loving. I wasn't implying that people that go to the convention should take everything he says as true, but that it might get the people that attend to think about our current situation more and for themselves. Thinking for themselves meaning both not taking Icke's opinions as their own, nor taking official or unofficial statements from the government or its members or former members as their own, since, after all, they're the ones in question here.

If I need to learn quantum mechanics and I have a choice of learning it from David Icke or from a world famous scientist who breaths and lives the theory, you are right I would prefer to learn it from the more highly credible source.  Chances are I will get a straighter explanation.  Chances are that a footballer who believes himself a messiah is not going to explain quantum mechanics in quite the same way.

I will also tell you why I have this bias, ie, why credibility is so important to me.  You see I suffer from a number of health problems.  I has spent years going to gp's who were hopeless and as hopeless as the specialists they sent me too.  I have descovered however, over the last few years that the best way to handle a problem is look for someone through the internet and journal searches who really knows their stuff.  It has proved successful for me.  I no longer wade through a sea of incompetence.  Credibility for me is valuable, cause it usually, not always, but usually cuts through the crap.

It is true that some of Ickes messages involves love, caring both social and environmental, etc.  But we get information like that everyday from many sources.  In this regard, he has nothing new to say.  If you get love from a partner or a child, you have heard the saner part of his message.  If you have gone into any religious institution, whether its Christian, Buddhist, etc, you will have heard the message of love.  If you switch on your tv, chances are you will hear about how we need to conserve and why and how the government is corrupt, etc.  Given this, why would I need to see David Icke?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's a thought, spend the day that you would going to David Icke, working with the disadvantaged instead. It would be more fruitful, and the money that will be wasted on him, save it and give it to the organisations that help those who suffer the corruption of major governments.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Shouldn't helping the 'disadvantaged' more the job of organizations like the UN, and, here's a thought, our government?, the institution created to organize, protect, support, and represent us? Governments aren't supposed to be for collecting taxes, limiting freedoms and starting wars with other countries just because there's a possibility they might be dangerous.  Wouldn't it be nice if we just solved the problem itself rather than just fixing what the problem causes?

It is indeed the job of organisations like the UN and governments to meet the needs of their citizens, both healthy and disadvantaged.  However, it is also our responsibility.  It is ridiculous to assume that any government can fill every crack, make laws to cover everyone, etc.  For those that slip through the cracks there are charities and community groups.  I find it amusing that you think that we can 'fix' the 'problem', by which you imply the government.  How exactly do you intend on doing that?  With who would you replace government officials with?  From the beginning of our history, there hasn't been a single government of any political persuasion which fullfilled every citizens' needs and none that were not corrupt to some degree.  I would like to know what you envision as Utopia and how do we get it?  Another revolution?

Having said all this, I did have a vision type dream once that I was taken into an underground chamber by a reptile looking gent, resembling something straight out of a hierglyph.  So who knows.  Maybe I have it all wrong.  Its been known to happen. []

Take care.

[SomeBloke]

Chances are that a footballer who believes himself a messiah...
Actually I think he was better known as a sports commentator, and a journalist for a while.  I don't know if that makes him more or less credible talking about...

SHAPE SHIFTING REPTILES FROM THE LOWER FOURTH DIMENSION!!!

I love that phrase. []

Here is an interesting 2-part article 'Beset By Lizards' about the controversy surrounding David Icke on his Candian tour.  It has a few shock-horrors and few laughs if you fancy reading it.

http://books.guardian.co.uk/extracts/story/0,6761,457988,00.html

[no_leaf_clover]

quote:However, that is not excuse, as you say, to not keep an eye out and try and aim for the least corruption possible in our own selves as well in politics.

That's what I meant, and from your clarification, I think I did understand the first time. If the Bin Laden family has given the Bush Administration over a billion dollars and we're flying out members of that family immediately after 9/11, I think that's a little beyond the excuse that we're a little corrupt. That's unacceptable. I know I'm not the most moral person in the world, but I could do a much better job than that.

quote:Again, you misunderstood what I meant. I meant that there are some people honest enough both inside politics and outside politics as well as environmentalists, law makers, etc, which help to expose corruption and stem the possibility of corruption.

I think I had a good understanding of this as well. What I meant was the fact that they served the government in question should mean nothing. What should matter is only what they're saying and what you think of it and how you balance the arguments and evidence from both sides.

quote:I will also tell you why I have this bias, ie, why credibility is so important to me. You see I suffer from a number of health problems. I has spent years going to gp's who were hopeless and as hopeless as the specialists they sent me too. I have descovered however, over the last few years that the best way to handle a problem is look for someone through the internet and journal searches who really knows their stuff. It has proved successful for me. I no longer wade through a sea of incompetence. Credibility for me is valuable, cause it usually, not always, but usually cuts through the crap.

I guess that's fine in a medical field, but here it's different. Credibility isn't so easily distinguished when it's the government that's in question. The government funds all sorts of things either directly or indirectly, including scientific labs and studies, space programs, universities, a lot of the media is either government propoganda or influenced by government propoganda. Take for example Farenheit 9/11. You may have seen the government official on TV saying that the movie was total fiction; that if he wanted to go see a good fiction he would see the movie Shrek 2. The government in general pretty much laughed the movie off, not wanting to bring it up and dismissing it as lies and propoganda. But as Moore himself will tell you, the information he got regarding things like the Bin Laden family giving the Bush Administration $1.5 billion dollars is all on public record and if I had gotten the address of the records (probably somewhere in Washington DC obviously), I could tell you exactly where to go right now to prove for yourself that the exchange occured, unless you think the corruptness in the government is in their lying about where money comes from, and in that case that would be a pretty stupid lie. That's just an example to show what I mean, but of course there are many other instances where 'credibility' can no longer be relied upon so much as your own personal thinking and information gathering since the government and many of its paid affiliates are lying.

quote:Given this, why would I need to see David Icke?

I don't think I asked you to go..

quote: How exactly do you intend on doing that? With who would you replace government officials with? From the beginning of our history, there hasn't been a single government of any political persuasion which fullfilled every citizens' needs and none that were not corrupt to some degree. I would like to know what you envision as Utopia and how do we get it? Another revolution?

Actually, yes, something like that. [8D] In this dimension we live in right now, I think there is hardship and suffering for a reason and a Utopia is impossible for a reason, but as you may know I believe in the ascension into a new density within a few decades. In case you didn't read the Zeta Channelings from a while back (I don't know if you did or not but I'm assuming you didn't), when this subject was touched it was mentioned that after this shift took place, civilization would be re-organized into many small communities across the world that governed themselves, though communication between the communities around the world would still be present. Even if you don't believe in those sorts of things, I believe that is the most perfect idea for the set-up of governments that I've ever heard. That is what I'm looking forward to in future incarnations if not this one, but I don't think that would be possible unless (or until) major world events start getting to the point where people are waking up and realizing that this is obviously a turning point in history.

Events like 9/11, freak weather like the unnamed stormed that hit Brazil a while ago, all the massive sunspot activity as well as global warming and even more irrelevant yet just as odd events such as Pluto both warming up and gaining more atmospheric pressure as it moves away from the Sun. Yellowstone, like just about all other volcanoes, is showing suddenly increased activity in the past few years. If Yellowstone erupts, everyone in a projected 300-mile radius will die immediately from a couple feet ash raining down. So heads up to anybody living out there. I believe it was in 2002 (but I may be off on the year) that an -Alaskan- earthquake caused the park's fountains to start spewing violently, opening up several new fountains that were previously undiscovered, albeit considerably smaller ones.

But I think we can do something about our government now if we really want. I really don't think it's as much of a matter of people not wanting to as much as it is people not knowing what sorts of things the government is up to. Hell, I know I don't know probably 1/4 of all the unacceptable things its done in its history even with all the out-there things I've read. First information needs to be put out like that presented Farenheit 9/11. Even without Moore's bias, the facts by themselves, as someone once mentioned, are 'anti-American'. [] We also need Bush out of office asap, not that I think Kerry is much better, but at least taking out Bush's administration will knock some of the edge off of all the dirty deeds going on between the Bushes and Bin Ladens.

quote:Having said all this, I did have a vision type dream once that I was taken into an underground chamber by a reptile looking gent, resembling something straight out of a hierglyph. So who knows. Maybe I have it all wrong. Its been known to happen.

Why do I never remember cool dreams like that? []

[atalanta]

NLC,

From your replies, I don't feel like you did understand my meanings, I don't want to keep going over them however, so lets move on.

You're right about my not knowing about those Zeta Channelling threads, although I have a vague feeling of passing by them a few months ago.  I will check them out and reply at a later date.

I don't believe in Utopias.  The idea that smaller groups or communities would somehow function any better than our current situation I think probably comes from some romantic notion of the past, where people lived in villages, etc.  However, it ignores that there use to be many feudal wars between community groups.  Unless you can ensure that there adequate supplies, in every part of the world that house these communities, they are going to compete for resources, wars and egos will take over.  My parents originated from villages, I know the mindset of people who come from smaller communities.  Its narrow, simplistic, black and white, ego driven, social protocol driven, etc, however, it also has some good qualities, like more cooperation and generally, the fear of shame keeps people honest.  In large city like communities, it also has its bad points, however, the thing I like about multicultural large groups, is you can disappear because there are so many different people from different cultures, that no one cares who you are or where you come from.  When I was growing up and Australia was still young in terms of European settlement, I was a wog, now no one sees me as being different because we have become so massive.

I guess what I am trying to say is that reality and life are messy, the fact that we still exist on this little planet should make us realise that we already live in Utopia.  Here is something that most ancient spiritual traditions try to teach.  As long as you believe the world that you inhabit is imperfect you will struggle because you will be driven to make it perfect.  If you accept the world as being perfect as is, then the struggle ends, suffering ends.  It is the difference between a witch and a saint or mystic.  One attempts to bring about change, to manipulate the environment, the other looks at the environment and tries to change themselves by seeing it for what it is.  We have nothing to change, God does not need us to change, save, etc the world.  However, if you wish, you may offer assistance, compassion, etc, not because you have to, just because you like to.

Okay now I am blah, blahing.  I will read some of the Zeta Channelling threads that you mentioned and get back to you.

[atalanta]

Back again,

I have now read through about 6 pages of the Zeta thread and the Reptilian thread.

I am really not very impressed with it.  However, that may be because I have had to deal with people with Dissociative Identity Disorder a number of years ago when I was running support groups and telephone counselling.  You haven't lived until you are talking with someone who has several alter-personalities and threatening to commit a murder-suicide! [:O]  

For those who don't know anything about this disorder, I will give a short, general description.  Basically, a child experiences some trauma, often abuse, and can not escape this trauma, so it trances out which insulates its sense of 'I' from the traumatic scene and then creates 'others' who adopt the memory and emotions of the trauma.  The initial personality becomes something of a host while the other fragmented bits of personality become alter personalities.  It is very possible to have an alter who deals with anger, another with sex, etc, with little memory of these events or communication between alters/host.  There is a story I remember of a woman who would take 7 contraceptive pills a day, one she actually took and then each alter would come 'out' and take one as well.  As there often is little awareness between the alters and between the alters and the host, each alter did not know that the others had taken a pill.

One of the interesting thing about this disorder is that often people who have this disorder have alters who are angels, aliens, demons, etc.  They are not angels, aliens or demons, but parts which have been given the jobs of being helpers or persecutors, etc.  With treatment, the original personality or host, begins to experience the emotions and memories, that they split off and integrate them into a more meaningful whole or I.  It is difficult because one of the reasons that people develop this disorder is to avoid pain, fear, etc, so it is hard to keep them in therapy and if they are challenged they will often do a runner.

The way that the Channellers communicate is exactly the same as someone suffering from the above disorder.  You will of course see it as being different but having experienced people with this disorder means that I have a viewpoint which allows me to make this comparison fairly easily.  I read how people were requesting some kind of proof, that is the channellers were challenged and with that the channelling ended.  It would have been easy for these 'aliens' who seemed genuinely concerned about humanity to prove their existence and that what they had to say was true.  Since David Icke seems to know these aliens then it would be easy for him and them to provide us with proof.  Since they are more advanced than us, they could provide us through Icke with a simple technological proof.  They could give Icke a design to some kind of technology which will save humanity from the forcast destruction.  Something which is so advanced that we could not think it up ourselves, at least not in our time.  Easy.

Maybe someone has already suggested this, so sorry if I am going over old territory.

Like I said, I wasn't impressed with it.  As far as I could determine, it had nothing to do with demons, negs, aliens, etc, just a lot of very confused individuals requiring psychological help.  There has to be a point when we stand up and say that it is nice and fair to say that people have a right to their beliefs, but in the face of evidence to the contrary, we have to be strong enough to say that some beliefs are nothing more than superstitious nonsense.  That doesn't mean I don't feel for these people.  I do, I feel enough for them to tell them that they are deluding themselves.  It brings me no pleasure or joy to be so blunt.  I know I am hurting people, I don't like that feeling.  But I would be joining in the delusion and be patronising to join in, nod my head and say, 'really, tell me more'.  

If you think I am a hardcore skeptic, you would be wrong.  I have had a number of spiritual and psychic experiences but I always demand of these experiences some level of evidence, otherwise, I put them in the 'Undecided' basket.  

Look, I will leave this matter open.  If I can be shown some evidence of what David Icke has to say, then please go for it.  Maybe someone can produce a picture of Bush shapeshifting or something, then again, anyone with half a brain can see what a snake he is.[}:)]

[]

[no_leaf_clover]

Back from vacationing at Myrtle Beach. [8D]

quote:However, it ignores that there use to be many feudal wars between community groups.

The channeling threads contain somewhere in them that for an extended period of time here special precautions will be made to ensure that groups will not be able to act as early barbarian nomads and conquer communities by means of more or less an impenetrable wall around each community. Also noted on the threads somewhere is that individuals that don't care as much as they should for others will not be incarnating with the rest of humanity, but will take a sort of spiritual detour, I guess you can say... Also Zecharia Sitchin in his books provides evidence that there has been intervention in the past at the start of this age and previously. If you haven't read any of them yet, they're fun.

The bit about the psychological disorders might be a little more credible with myself if I had not had some experiences of my own working over MSN with the guys. I wasn't extremely successful with the channeling part, but I was somewhat successful at what Mayatnik called an 'OBE' though I don't think it's the kind of OBE most people here know them. I wasn't unconscious as I had it, but when I wasn't forcing it and letting it come naturally (not often [xx(]) it was quite realistic. I remember visiting two past places in Europe and a ship of some sort from which guides were working. Those experiences are my personal evidence for the threads (though of course not of much use to others), along with all the ways the information presented plugged into to what I already believed from reading into Sitchin's work. It sort of brought things full circle.

The thing with presenting proof of their existence, as it's put from the threads, is that definitive proof out of nowhere could cause chaos here on Earth. What you have instead are things like constant UFO sightings around the world, crop circles, abduction cases, etc. that are enough to get people thinking to become aware of the information and ideally realize they exist without any trouble at all.

Technological proof of their existence can be found in authentic crop circles that have radioactive as well as odd sexual properties, do not disturb crops (I think some of the crops have even been reported as showing improvements a year or so after the authentic circles appear), etc. UFOs that have been recorded taking off at speeds that would kill humans instantly is another example of what would be proof of their technology if only linked to them (and I think the only other alternative would be our own government, and I question whether they're that far yet). The Pyramids also show incredible technology in how energy is harnessed into them like huge natural generators, and how frequencies resonate within them as if they're giant spiritual tuning forks (not to mention their great astronomical significance). That would be proof sound enough for science if only a link between the extraterrestrials and those technologies could be made. It's kind of like having a lot of evidence that someone has committed a murder, but the piece of evidence that definitively links the murderer and the crime is still missing. In this case it would be intentionally missing in order to prevent chaos from revolts against governments, religious institutions, mass paranoia, etc.

quote:If you think I am a hardcore skeptic, you would be wrong. I have had a number of spiritual and psychic experiences but I always demand of these experiences some level of evidence, otherwise, I put them in the 'Undecided' basket.

The only problem I have with that is that I'm too impatient to wait for evidence. I've found that the evidence most people want is often some kind of physical evidence, as this is all that science as we know it today can measure. However I don't think it's reasonable to expect much physical evidence from a lot of the things dealt with in the non-physical realm, except for things like remote viewing that can be verified immediately.

quote:Look, I will leave this matter open. If I can be shown some evidence of what David Icke has to say, then please go for it. Maybe someone can produce a picture of Bush shapeshifting or something, then again, anyone with half a brain can see what a snake he is.

I just hope Icke gets a few people thinking; that's all that needs to be done. I really think Bush has some serious mental or at least extremely perverted moral issues, but that should be no surprise, as our whole system is filled people behaving similarly.

[nrishiraj]

NEW YORK - SEPTEMBER 11th !

David Icke will be coming to NEW YORK on September 11, 2004 by POPULAR DEMAND!

EMAIL THIS ARTICLE TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW!

People... we are at the edge of the cliff hanging, willing to jump, however, somewhere "out there" is our parachute!

On this Sunday, the 4th of July - INDEPENDENCE DAY... let it ring out a NEW MEANING of Independence. Our FREEDOM is in the palm of our hands, we can touch it, taste it...it is being offered to us with open arms. Let us seize this opportunity RIGHT NOW, together, to shed the light upon this country called AMERICA and its people, which will then raise the shadows it holds across this world lifting us, and the planet, into light. TRUE FREEDOM!

Never forgetting the wars of the worlds and its losses.
Never forgetting the fodder and the barren crosses
laid out upon this land crying for peace
the little ones, the children being ripped apart
homelessness, poverty, and so much more
please open your heart....

Eight weeks to go for New York and we need up front capital to make it happen! These events are well planned, well organized but not well funded! We need your support now! The funds needed must be in no later than Friday July 9th when a very critical decision will have to be made regarding September 11th!

YOU can help make the difference in our "shared" world.

Los Angeles was a success on many levels however, people need to realize how much it takes to get an event of this magnitude off the ground. There must be someone out there who can send us a (tax deductible) grant for the cause of FREEDOM?!

We have "all together" started something, the energy is building from the West Coast of Los Angeles sweeping across AMERICA towards the East Coast in New York! We cannot let it stop now! Over the next FIVE DAYS (July 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9) get committed! 5 DAY CHALLENGE TO MAKE NEW YORK HAPPEN!

Many thanks to all of you who have continued your support....
You will be remembered in the pages of time!

We would like to see how many people are coming to the event from this website so show us your support by emailing us on: DAVIDICKETALKS@aol.com giving us the number of tickets you are requesting. Put TICKETS in the "subject" area.

The planet's most controversial and challenging speaker reveals:
* Who really controls our world ?
* What really happened on 9/11 ?
* The interdimensional connection
* What we can do about it!
AND SO MUCH MORE!

If you think Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11" is an eye opener then you won't want to miss this "riveting", "truth and reality exposing" event! Michael Moore is only giving you a fraction of the story!

Take it to the next level and truly free yourself! Seven and a half (7 - 1/2) hours (ALL DAY!) filled with over 600 illustrations that will move your very soul, touch your heart, blow your mind, and make you laugh leaving you filled with love, compassion and empathy and most of all in complete awareness of just what this shared dream we call "our world" is all about.
(Don't worry...there are breaks including a lunch break, not that you will ever want to leave your seat!)

The Los Angeles event has opened up more hearts and minds including many well known, high profile people in attendance who can help us take this information to the people on a massive scale. The offers are pouring in for the rights to movie and television deals, interviews and guest appearances!.

Our time has come people!! Don't miss being a part of the revolution and make your appearance in New York with us! Take a stand and be counted!

See what the PEOPLE ARE SAYING!

"People are always blaming circumstances for what they are. I don't believe in circumstances. The people who get ahead in this world are the people who get up and look for the circumstances they want, and if they can't find them, make them". ~ George Bernard Shaw

We now need your support and help to make New York happen!
How you can help?

How you can MAKE A DIFFERENCE and TAKE THE $20 CHALLENGE!

The plan is to "Use America to Break America!"

From: http://www.icke-media.com