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I would also like to add that this world was designed and created as a spiritual experience learning tool by a diety or dieties that do (does) not care whether or not people worship it/them. If it/they cared, it/they would say something.

There are many ways to look at the same painting.

I think that identifying a cult is easy enough simply by the way they react when you tell them what YOU think is the truth. If they're a cult, they'll likely get all ticked off at you and start shunning you, damning you, etc. or try to "save" you. Be careful about the interpretation of their actions as them trying to "save" you. They could also merely be offering you their view(s) of what the truth is. This does not mean they are in a cult or the leader of one.

If you want to see what a cult website is, go to and write to the owner of the site about proof of her "predicitions."


Well well :-) the subject sure got the attention of some "big stars". I would tend to agree with you in most areas. One particular statement that especially caught my attention (and you explained it better that I could) is how a idea can be adhered to much more severely than intended. ie the Harry Potter books. That is a very good point.By the way I do not believe she was a normal house wife but most likely trained in the occult or at least did a lot of research. Anyway that is immaterial. My problem is that in this age it seems that the spread of Negs and the concsequent spiritual pollution is multiplied by numbers we do not even dream of by THE INTERNET, and other media, and that leads us to the question wether we should sensor or not ? ???? that is really the job of the moderator isnt it. A sort of police. I never turn on the net without praying for protection nor do I drive my car leave my house or open my TV, without doing the same and I do not think I am Paranoid at all. OK well then where does that leave us. Christian groups do sensor specifical people both in Church and on the net. The Bible tells you to excomunicate anyone speaking against the faith. Is this site different?? maybe the excommunicating is not done by the moderator all though I believe it could happen if as Christian Fundementalist continually disturbed the site. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with sensorship!!!Everyone has the right to decide who they hang around on the net or elsewhere. Also let us not forget that many cults are not destructive at all but on the contrary very helpfull for their members wellbeing and most people join them without being controlled. At least that is my opinion. The notion that it is weak individuals I think is wrong. I met several from the Jehovas witness to the Moonies and lots of Hindu  and buddhist fractions and they seemed very representative of the population in general, as a matter of fact some seemed above avarage.
Words.....there was a time when I believed in words!



Christian Fundamentalists are welcome on this site as long as they do not violate the rules of Netiquette (see for examples.  

Moderators are not here to censor; rather they exist to spot check the forums for breaches of nettiquete.  People can be as pro-OBE or anti-AP as they want; however, if they are hostile or disruptive despite repeated attempts to correct their behavior, their IP address will be blocked.  I consider these kinds of people to be "online negs."

Simply being contrary, or even negative sometimes, will not get you thrown off AstralPulse, I promise, as long as you follow the rules of netiquette and respect other people's opinions.

Moderators are also human, and as you can tell by some of our "stars," very opinionated and chatty, or at least willing to commit to this Forum for the long haul.  Most our posts are personal in nature; i.e., our opinions.  We only very rarely put on our Moderator Hats.

That's all from the Moderator for now!


Usually christian 'bashing' isn't as baseless and blind as christian support. That's all I have to say. This makes me sound badass . That sunglasses smiley makes me look even more badass. God I'm cool.
Okay, I'm done.


Dear Tisha,

I just wanted to say I think you are doing a great job moderating and I really like the Netiquette idea and found it an excellent read.[8D]

Back on topic.  If the user comes with an attitude of keeping an open mind then this is not a cult.  There are vastly different opinions, religious backgrounds, concepts, experiences and ideas presented on this board.  They force you to THINK.  In a cult (negative cult at least) the last thing they want you to do is think for yourself.  They want to tell you how it is.  Personally, I think each of us has to find God in our own way, our own time, and with our own unique flare.  The ways that take longer...well so what...if time is irrelavent then that can't be much of an issue.  Besides you probably see a lot more along a longer road.

On an amusing note...I wonder why the word occult has the word cult in it[?]

Best Regards,
timeless [:)]


I think if we become too paranoid we will only contribute to the idea of McCarthyism. It's like the terrorists and the commies. People were being accused of being communist back in the 50's and now they're being accused of being terrorists. Now if we take that attitude and apply it to this site, we get normal, everyday people getting pointed at and accused of being a member of a cult. Of course, that's the extreme and I don't think we're anywhere near that. It would really suck if it came to that, but I know that most people here are open-minded enough not to start being THAT paranoid. That's what I like about this site. It has its own flow. "You cannot harm that which is formless. Emptiness cannot be confined, and the softest thing cannot be snapped" -Bruce Lee    God, I love that quote. If our minds are like water, empty of emotion, desire, prejudice, etc., then we are truly free. Our minds take on no form and so no cult can get to them, no matter what they say or do.

I agree that not all cults are "bad" or evil. I think cults that do harm to others (like the KKK or like certain Satanist sects) should be stopped and disbanded but other than that, I think most cults are fine as far as their existence goes. They are free to follow what they believe is the right path. As long as they don't interfere with my journey/path/way, then I'm cool with them. Here's a list of laws that I was thinking of one day and decided to write down. If everyone lived by these laws, I think society would be great.

Here they are:

1) All persons should be free and look at all others as their equals.

2) All persons may seek the truth with their freedom in whatever way they wish. They shall not violate (1-6).

3)No person or persons shall stop or obstruct anyone's use of freedom or anyone's search for the truth.

4) No person or persons may endanger anyone in any way.

5) No person or persons shall damage or take that which does not belong to them.

6) No persons may judge others for their choices.

*If a person has freedom they must know what to do with it and how to use it.

*If a person knows the truth, they must know how to apply it, in combination with their freedom.

That's all I've got right now. I decided to share this with you all, even though I know that somewhere in there there are flaws I can't see right now. But I'm working on it. I've got to get offline now so I can receive some phone calls. This is a good discussion.


Ender, you summarized the Book of the Law, aka Liber Al vel Legis, by the controversial A. Crowley. Well, once you strip all the drama from it, anyway [8D]

2cents & L&L


Thanks Timeless!


If everyone lived by these laws, I think society would be great.

I wonder how many conquerors and dictators have spoken these same words. haha No offense [;)]

Your laws sound rather nice.
Alice had got so much into the way of expecting nothing but out-of-the-way things to happen, that it seemed quite dull and stupid for life to go on in the common way.


hi Jilola !

Good point. I've always been intrigued by the "book of the law", its quite interesting how such a short book can provoke different reactions.

As a poem, its text is obscure. Perhaps this makes it interesting as the reader is left to fill in the meaning of the words.

I know I'm slightly off topic, but I'm coming back on board :

...I had a quick skim through...quite complicated ! Can this sort of thing be the inspiration for a cult ?

ps- From now on when I use the word "cult", i'm gonna try not to automatically give it a negative connotation... !
I'll Name You The Flame That Cries


I believe the secret, if any, in the Al is deciphered not by mathematics, QBL or astrology but by an intuitive mind advanced on its spiritual path. In other words, and as the Ankh af na Khonsu ion the link states, each person must decipher it for himself. All ultimate truths are relative to the individual.

Having said that, the Al has a wealth of advise for the sincere seeker.

2cents & L&L


Al? I don't think so, Tim. Ooh, where can I get one? Oh, right, Crowley wrote it... It must be a book. Yeah, I've heard some messed up stuff about Crowley (he went insane from thinking about this too much. Ah, if he only let his mind flow like water... Tsk, tsk, tsk)- I believe someone wrote a song about him (Metallica?).

As far as the Book of Law goes, I came up with this (not ALL of them, of course, just the combination. I was also thinking about Isaac Asimov's ROBOT books). after reading Bruce Lee's quotes on conformity. That's why I decided to try the Way of No Way, just for kicks. When you think about it, we are all so caught up in our ways that it is almost unfathomable to think about. Even the very way we th We have to knock out all the conditioning that's been drilled into our poor little heads [B)] by our societies and organized religions. We have to stop worrying so much about all the social reasons we do things (but very carefully, of course, and in the right order and speed) and start doing things for more spiritual reasons. Everything must be done gradually, NEE! so that we do this without getting burned at the stake or some other painful method of death implemented by our understanding and benevolent society...mmm...steak...

Well, enough of my illegible babbling. I've got to get some sleep. Hope I'm not sounding too radical or something. I'm not about to go back and revise. Goodnight.


agreed jouni, well said !
I'll Name You The Flame That Cries


Ok well said dear Moderator and you know what..... I do agree with you that this forum is "pretty" decent and supression rarely comes from you. All that said, consider the notion that as an outsider, which I think in some ways I am, (my definition of outsider = someone who does not adhere to the central tenants of the body of believers), there can still be a considerable amount of pressure exerted by the "body", that allthough strictly speaking is not supression in as in a organised way or anything ,in effect works the same way. It does seem to me that this forum has a promlem at times "giving" the same love and respect to someone with a different view and faith as it gives to the ones with whom it(the body) can align itself. In other words forums like this often turn into closed fellowships instead of open forums, in a way the doors that was once open slowly closes as  time passes and people get to know who they like and where they stand. This in in my view a forming of dogmatism and a hardemning in the mold that is not healthy. I think it would be wise to at all points attempt to solicitate opinions different to ones own and try to (and I know it is difficult) embrace people with a different point of view. The truth is the truth no matter what we all run around in this world assuming it to be, so we might as well be friendly and loving towards each other while we share the world. I do feel that at times there is too much hostility toward Christians in this forum, but who knows maybe we Christians have created this reality for ourselves through years of pompous adherence to a superiority and a lack of love and respect for people who think and believe differently. Totally contrarily to what we claim to believe.Who knows.
Words.....there was a time when I believed in words!


Mustardseed, let me present an analogy.  I'm a peace-loving progressive surrounded by republican fanatics in a Department of Defense environment.  What the *&%& am I even doing here, you ask?  Sometimes I ask myself the same question. But I am obviously here by choice; ergo I get what I deserve, and should not be surprised when people jump all over me for my belief system.  I don't need to lie down and take it; however neither should I put on airs or act all shocked when it happens.  

My point is, it all comes with the territory.  People are human.  Despite our attempts at modernism, we are still tribal people.  Tribal people put a lot of effort/emphasis upon what makes us different (i.e., "exclusive") from other entities, rather than what makes us the same.  There are dire warnings about leaving "the fold." Once upon a time, this mindset kept us from being eaten by wolves and sabre-toothed tigers.  Nowadays, it just (starts cults and) causes problems!

I used to think sports were useless.  I mean really, really pointless.  Now I think of sports as a mostly-harmless way for us to channel our tribal instincts.  So, instead of sniping at each other about our belief systems, let's start a fantasy football game:  "The Mystics vs. the Realists."  Gee, I wish I knew how to play.


A good link for information regarding cults is
CESNUR stands for Center for Studies on New Religions.


It was Ozzy Osbourne who wrote a song about Aleister Crowley... the song was titled 'Mr. Crowley'.

When/if reading Liber AL vel Legis (AKA: The Book of the Law), please consider that the following quote is from a twelfth century pseudo-Hermetic treatise titled "The Book of the XXIV Philosophers"

"God is an infinite sphere, whose center is everywhere and circumference nowhere."

Relate that line to the descriptions of Nuit and Hadit in verses 2 and 3 of Chapter 2 in Liber AL vel Legis and see if that influences your opinion about the originality or authenticity of the book. For further reading (though dry at times) check out the book "Planets, Stars and Orbs: The Medievel Cosmos, 1200 - 1687" by Edward Grant. You'll find the above mentioned quotation on page 175, but there's other points in that chapter to compare with Liber AL as well. Hadit says "I am not extended". Well, the topic of whether or not God could be seen as an extended magnitude was a hot topic for quite some time. Even Sir Isaac Newton weighed in on the subject.


Hi Blue Annubis-

Thank you for that info, and I'll be sure to check out at least the B.O.L. in the order that best suits me, of course. I do my research according to what I want to learn about first. Then as I learn about the thing I find most interesting, I become interested in some of the other things branching from it. Anyway, I hate to study things in an academic matter; Before I ever read about Bruce Lee's philosophies, I had come to most of the same conclusions myself- He just better defined it for me (and many others), and so I found his stuff worth reading. Anyway, I've got to get some sleep. See ya.

Oh, and yeah, Ozzie rules!


QuoteOriginally posted by Tisha
ANALOGY : Mustardseed, let me present an analogy.  I'm a peace-loving progressive surrounded by republican fanatics in a Department of Defense environment.  What the *&%& am I even doing here, you ask?  Sometimes I ask myself the same question. But I am obviously here by choice; ergo I get what I deserve, and should not be surprised when people jump all over me for my belief system.  I don't need to lie down and take it; however neither should I put on airs or act all shocked when it happens.  

I get your point and also have come to the same conclusion, that this is HOW THINGS APPEAR TO WORK, and I am not surprised!!However I feel it is wrong anyway. We are in a way discussing two different points. One point is HOW IT IS and another is HOW IT SHOULD BE. Your analogy fits the bill of the first one, however, only in the sickening system of the world with all its power struggles, do men fight each other for fickle fame and fortune. My analogy is a scientific meeting or such where someone with an opposing view and different theories, is put down and bad mouthed for THINKING DIFFERENT. This is similar to religious persecution. Do you condone that, and just tell folks that they will have to get over that, or do you attempt to moderate?? Please remember that I do totally understand your post and the reasoning too, but is there not merit in a discussion based on how things should be, rather than how they are now. I think that your view is the exact thing I am talking about. Has the opressed become the oppressor?? Actually I think that the heavy badmouthing and slander that is sometimes seen in more a result of fear maybe or at least a feeling of insecurity, a sort of teen age agression against what is seen as an authority, and fear spreads. Like Sheakspere said " me thinkest thou dost protest too much"
Words.....there was a time when I believed in words!



I almost agree with all the laws you put down. I have to completely disagree with the last one. Everyone should have the right to judge as they wish as long as that judgment does not become law. Being a libertarian, I'll have to agree with everything else. I think it could be simplified as:
1)No person has the right to harm or threaten a person or his possessions.
2)A person is only bound by additional rules through his or her own consent. (for example, if we signed a contract that required you to bow down and call me sue for $10, that should be enforced by law)

I strongly believe that everyone has the right to do anything they like with whomever they like (as long as it's consensual and the participants are of consenting age of course), as long as they do not violate the rights of others to be safe in their person and belongings. Liberty under law. That is the path of a true free society.



Moderators use their best discretion in deciding whether or not to intervene in a thread.  Personally, I believe that even unhelpful opinions are valid opinions.   I wouldn't attempt to moderate an unhelpful opinion (i.e., "you've gone flaming mad"), but if the same person said "you're out of your freaking mind, you moron") I might THEN feel the need to intervene.  I think it's personal choice on that; other moderators might choose differently.  

Remember that moderators are also human beings and regular participants, so even if we're not wearing our "moderator hats" we might still feel the need to jump in on a conversation if we think a thread has taken an ugly turn.  So don't presume too much when you see a moderator join in a conversation.  Very rarely are we stating Astralpulse policy; more likely we're throwing out opinions like the rest.

PS:  Interesting subtopic on Crowley/the Law . . . perhaps it needs its own thread!  Its hiding in here . . . other interested parties may be missing it . . . Throw it out there guys!


Hello, Beowulf-

Thanks for your input-

That last "law" was meant more as a philosophical approach to the world- In other words, let's say, for example, you do LOTS of drugs. I do not judge you for doing every drug in the book, but I choose not to hang out with you because I dislike drugs and dislike seeing what they do to people. So you see, there IS judgement involved but it is not directed at the person- more or less, it is aimed at the choice(s) they make/made. i.e. this person does this stuff I don't like so I won't hang around with them. However, if you then proceeded to try to place an acid tab on my neck against my will, I would beat you silly or do whatever was necessary to protect my freedom. Since you would be violating the law that states that one cannot interfere with another's freedom, I would have to protect myself.

I do half-agree with you about this, however. I understand what you're saying and would feel the same way myself. The trouble is, how can a person enforce such laws? This must come from within the person who believes in the laws.

I agree with your simplification of the laws completely though. However, the creation of additional laws can also interfere with law #1. IF the person created a law (like, say, the terrorists with their Jihad) that would harm others for some reason, then this law they would have to follow because they choose to be bound by it, but in the process of obeying such a law, they cause harm to others. Then what happens is a big fight or battle between those that believe in the first law, and those who believe that the other law should come first. Or maybe I'm wrong about this whole paragraph. i'm too tired to really put any good thought into it. But I think I do have a point about how these laws could still be worked to the advantage of evil and falseness.

This world is not perfect. Or rather, it is, but we have not the wit to see it. Quite simply, there are many illusions that will try to get us off-track from the truth (and unfortunately they do throw most off-track). The whole reason that following a pattern or system is a bad idea is because, like I've been saying, it (1) limits a person's way of thinking, and (2), because of this, does not allow the person to see reality for what it is. Reality is a constant change. When you wade in a river, you are never wading in the same water twice (even as you stand still), because the water is always moving. Similarly, as our lives are ticking away, time constantly changes. Time is the water that flows in the river that is eternity, and patterns and systems are an artificial river that goes around in a circle, closing us off from everything else.

I, too, am a libertarian; I am an anarchist at heart, but not your "typical" anarchist. I believe in anarchy because it best fits the way I like to live- having no way of living, just living, plain and simple, without a system. I do believe in a code of honor, I believe in respect, integrity, happiness, and independence. I don't think we should be interdependent because we can't control the things that happen outside of ourselves. Whatever is going to happen is going to happen, and no matter what we say or do, nothing is going to stop it from happening. They say life is 10% what happens and 90% how you interpret it.

Tisha, what you were saying about our tribal instincts (if I have my forums right)-

I agree with you, and you touched upon one of the issues I was talking about, which is systems, patterns, etc. Yes, we needed this mentality at one time, but we are ready to evolve, I think. I feel that I am. The problem, I think, is that we are stuck in a pattern or way of living, and now that we've come to see a reality which does not conform to our system, our reaction is, "Oh no, what do we do now?" This is another reason cults are evolving. I think this is also the reason Bush (and many other politicians and government officials) set up Homeland security. I think the government is so afraid of reality that it needs to assert this pattern, this way of life. It knows that (1) if the pattern fails, then people will be angry with them for not doing their jobs, and (2) if people see reality, they will blame the government for trying to assert this pattern to blind them from it. Even if they don't know it consciously, they must know it unconsciously. People in our government (and I think every government) have a certain mentality (tribal mentality), and feel the need to go to war with other countries when they feel that their supplies are threatened, their home is threatened, etc. The other countries feel threatened by us, and feel a need to go to war with us because they need to protect their culture. So what happens here is a vicious cycle of war-mongering politicians chasing their tails (and each others').

Okay, I think this reply is quite long enough. I hope I haven't confused anyone.



Dear goingslow,

If you haven't had a chance please check out silentwitness78's heart wrenching tale about giving up his job, rearranging his life, loosing everything for this Zeta/Peladian thing.  It  is half way down the page.  It is very long and detailed. This is why I dislike cults.

It is in THE TRUTH SHALL BE KNOWN thread page 23

Knew there was a reason I avoided this with a ten foot pole.  Too much defensiveness and radical behaviour.  That is what I love about you.  You think, think, think...for yourself.  We do not need guides to run our lives.  We are their equals not their puppets.  They are not our masters but our helpers.  I appreciate the help when it comes but never live by it.Insert But I am preaching now so I will stop.



I completely agree timeless.  Its sort of funny because lastnight I commented on the bad feeling i was getting about the mayatnik thread and silentwitness posted that today I think.  

But the important part is mayatnik is taking it real time.  If you see on this thread
Karek has told parmenion that he really has no more use on the AP.  And he is to travel between his own house whereever that is and the meeting place they're all going to go to.

Mayatnik is also leaving astral pulse.  If you read the way bottom you'll see the conversation.  I hope Im not the only one who sees the danger in this.  He also just happens to mention he himself (Mayatnik) has had to move many times when his guide has told him to.  But she always provided for him.  In other words dont worry about expenses or uprooting your life.. the guides will take care of you.

I guess silentwitness's guide is teaching him a hard lesson?

So Mayatnik goes real time with the people he recruited from here and elsewhere.  

BTW just a tip for whomever never go anywhere when someone says "you'll see who else is here when you come".  especially someones house!

thank you for your comments timeless.. I always like seeing your perspective on things.  AS I think you know.