Have we really evolved?

[Euphoric Sunrise]

I think you're right. Superficially we have evolved, but we probably remain very much rooted in the earliest of times. Although, you can't deny the morals of the western world have widened a whole lot. I'm not saying it's not the same for the east, but i really have no experience so it would be ignorant of me to comment.

Essentially, we are still after the same thing - answers. It's questions that have driven us to where we are, and my guess is that it's questions that will continue to drive us to where we end up. If we do end up anywhere that is.

Personally, though, i wouldn't want to be anybody but who i am.

[Gandalf]

I certainly don't feel humanity has changed (which is fine!). I study ancient history (Greek and roman history in particular) and I have found the exactly the same emotions, drives, desrires and problems form part of our lives today as they did in Athens 5th century BC or whatever.

Yes, moral values change over time, standards, social and cultural fashions, politics and technology, spirutualism, but behind this, *people* quite simply are the same people that they always were.
The past may be a different country but it is well and trully populated by US.

remember technological progress is not the same as 'progress' in a more general manner. Also, I feel that the whole notion of 'progress' is an illusion, a product of modern western thought. There are only trends, which change over time, and will continue to do so.

However, I see this as a good thing, a constant in an ever changing world... people will always be people.

All these folks that think that we are going to change into spiritual super beings through 'cosmic changes' etc are living in a fantasy. This is the way the world works, its the way the world has always worked and will always continue to do so.

IMO this place is one giant learning zone, and this is the way things are. there is plenty opportunity to transform in the 'other realms' if you like.

The way the it has always been is that small groups or individuals have turned away from worldly trends to pursue spiritual truths and 'advance' their own spiritual evolution. They are then seperate from the rest of society which moves on as before.

Society itself continues as always. Organised religion for the masses tries to involve everyone in this but it can only ever be partially helpful, esp. as every organised religion suffers from corruptions and changes as it interacts with society.


Regards,
Douglas

[moontingle]

Aside from our evolution, what about universal energy and, of course, thought and prayer? Universal energy is speeding up and so is more responsive to our thoughts. Antoine Bovis, European scientist, talks about Bovis units, as a measurement for the energy of people. In his time (1900's) a healthy person registered 6500 Bovis Units, today many healthy people register at 18 to 20 thousand Bovis Units of overall physical energy.
So, personal action becomes increasingly important in these times to effect positive change. In Power Vs. Force, David R. Hawkins purports a single person with high integrity can put a positive spin on the energy of 600 lower-level thinkers.
Personally, I refuse to see the negative, despite physical appearances, because energy follows thought. And I'm not being naive about this.

[wantsumrice]

When you say "are we really evolved?", remember it's all relative.  Relative to a bug, yes we are, relative to a cat, yes we are, relative to a phone, yes we are.  

Gandalf has it right on, this place is just a big learning zone.

~ivan

[greatoutdoors]

Gandalf, as usual, you raise a good point. I don't see your comments as necessarily negative (am I reading you right?) What I'm hearing you say is that humanity, as a whole, is pretty much unchanging. I agree. Seems like from a historical overview, folks don't learn from history - and certainly do keep on repeating it. But you leave the door open for those who achieve "enlightenment" (or call it what you will). Who knows, if humanity refrains from destroying itself and/or the earth for a long enough time, perhaps those enlightened ones will become the norm and we will, in fact, have evolved.

Moontingle, I would have to be seriously suspicious of a claimed ability to "measure" a person's energy. That's one shortcoming of science - trying to quantify everything! It wasn't so long ago I heard about a study of how much "stuff" was produced by a person with a head cold. (I'm serious!!) [] The researchers weighed tissues, then issued them to various people with head colds. The people turned in the used tissues, which were weighed again. This resulted in the group's "scientific results". Even casual thought about that "study" shows it's just not accurate. It's also not a study I would want to take part in! []

[Ryu-Kanjin]

I give us as a human race a good 200-300 years and we will have reached a higher plane of consciousness.....thats if we dont blow ourselfs up.

To bad we are courently on the path to blowing ourselfs up [xx(] all we have to do is STOP ****ING FIGHTING and learn to love everyone [^]

[kiauma]

It is true that people do not fundamentally change.  People still need to survive.  They need food.  They need shelter.  They need love.  They need to express themselves, and yes I think people will always have open to them violent and self-destructive behaviours; It is the risk and price of free will.

Yes, there is much to lament in the world today.  However, there is a reason these things are called 'backward', and there is a reason that higher aspiration is universally defined as virtue.  No doubt there will always be those in the world who do not care how much they make others suffer, and I'm sure it is true that there have always also been good people in the world, but I think the real measure of change is our (collective) consciousness of these means and goals, and the price, benefit and detriment of each.

Gandalf has pointed out how like the ancient world the world of today is.  I do not think that is quite as true as he thinks.  For example, everyone laments the industrial revolution, and the pollution, squalor, and corruption of values it has appeared to spawn.  On the other hand, no one seems to notice the reason that it all went down in the first place, which is that for the first time it enabled people to produce goods, and get them, relatively cheaply and easily.  Beforehand, you either made them yourself, or paid someone else to make something by hand, and - get this - the chief source of material labor or power before there was engines and powerlines was slave labor!  That's right, slavery was the chief way of getting anything of importance done.

I don't know about you, but I'll take squalor over slavery anytime, should it come to that.

Another example we are blithely overlooking is the so-called sexual revolution.   Yes, we have problems today with STDs, ethics, and so-called decency, but think of what life was like before birth control.  Frankly, life sucked, as the only true delight of the flesh HAD to be strictly controlled - basically your body controlled your life.  Did you know it used to be law that if you were born out of wedlock, it had to be stated on your birth certificate?  These things were taken very seriously.  At that time, a woman's chastity was literally her most prized posession, and this durring a time of very primitive ethics in most men!

Yet another example is the dissemination of knowledge and information.  Could you imagine where we would all be if we were discussing OBE a mere couple of hundred years ago?  Burning at the stake, most likely!  Yes, the media machine will obligingly manipulate our perceptions if we let it, but there is a vast amount of information available at any library or any internet connected computer that any determined person could hope to dig out.  

There are many, many such examples.  Basically, and I know there are exceptions but I would argue strongly that we are still WAY better off than we were, but where a lot of our 'evolution' has taken us is toward more and more freedom from the tyrannies of our existance without the exploitation of others.  Even in our servitude to taxes, armies, and comercialism, we have more freedoms, more knowledge and more powers than any people at any prior point in history.

Yes there are wars, yes there is disease, hunger, and still a lot of exploitation - but there were always these things, and generally we are FAR better off than we were in the past

That said, to sum up I think our mastery of our physical existance is only the second major step of human evolution, the first being the evolution of the intellect.  I also think that we, yes WE, are on the brink of yet another evolution of humanity, into the psychic realms.   Yes, the world is hardly 'perfect' by our conceptions, but the old school will surely rage on for quite some time, even as the new school begins to open it's doors.

I find it all very exciting.

[Jenadots]

Hi, everyone.  The way I see it, we are all spirtual beings but we inhabit what are basically animal/mammal bodies with all the instincts, fears, and reactions that go with it.  

The veneer of civiliztion has always been rather thin as it doesn't take much for us to react from that fear basis.  An author once said we are just one generation away from the caves.  The Mad Max scenario sometimes seems just around the corner and all too possible.

I like to think we are less brutal than our ancestors or at least shocked by brutality, but we do seem to relish violence and have become almost immune to it.  We see so much of it in our mass media culture that I wonder if anything shocks us.  

The other problem with it is that because we see so much of it, both fictional and real, when we do really see it, for some it seems like a
movie.  

In some ways, our thinking has evolved in that most of us do not live the brutal life of our ancestors although there are still many places on earth where the majority of the people are living with fear, starvation, wars, slavery, and other horrors.  That used to be the way for most people.  Only a few lived better lives.

Does that mean we have evolved?  I don't know.  It does seem that more of us as a species are aware of the sufferings of others and genuinely want to ease that suffering.  We just don't seem to know how.  Nor do we seem to know what to do about the dominators or more violent of us.  We secretly know that anyone of us, if pushed to a certain extreme, could become violent.  Fortunately, at least for the present, most of us do not live lives that push us to that extreme.

We all have our inner rages.  How many of us have never thought they wish someone else would suffer or just fall off a cliff and die?  

Maybe a part of evolving is accepting that animalistic side of ourselves and learning how to control it. We can't really ignore our instincts, both good and bad. Perhaps by learning how to let our higher self, our more rational and spiritual self rule our lives we can at least not act on every impulse or instinctive response that flows through us.  

I don't know that any of us can change others.  We can only hope to change ourselves one minute at a time.  

I also think there is such a thing as a collective consciousness and that does seem to be changing.  Will that bring "peace on earth"?  Who knows?  

Likely a hundred or a thousand years from now, people will still be much as they are today.  Some will be wonderful and some will be awful and most will be a little bit of both at various times in their lives.

[Silversunset]

a professor of mine in "science of society" has made a point that i think is very valid.

We have not "evolved" since we came out of africa. Once we became "homo sapian" we have not really changed physically (other than a very few minor things). Humans are most suited to live in warm-hot climates, however we populate almost every environment in the world. without our 'adaptations' we would die.

we have, however, ADAPTED since then. clothing, tools, fire, culture. that is adaptation, not evolution. Humans are most suited to live in warm-hot climates, however we populate almost every environment in the world. without our 'adaptations' we would die.

[kiauma]

Good point.  There are many types of evolution; physical, mental, social, spiritual.  Darwin's theory of evolution is a description of the process of the adaptation of a species through 'natural selection', meaning those who do not adapt die off, and are thus unable to propogate future generations.

Humans are doing pretty good on that end.

[atalanta]

I am curious about what people think about the following.

I know that we have evolved in terms of our physicality, technology and intelligence but are we still primitive in some ways.

I mean, we talk about being civilised and modern but we are still driven by our instincts.  We are still killing each other in wars, we have developed cultures where violence, torture, etc, is seen as exciting and a kind of initiation into adulthood or groups.  We still lie, cheat, steal, backstab, physically/sexually abuse and use, etc.

I remember watching Star Trek and the figure that I felt most comfortable with and my vision of what would be a perfect human was a Vulcan, Mr Spock!  He was in control, logical, etc.  He was my hero.  Maybe this is crazy but I would give anything practically to be a Vulcan instead of an Earthling.

Have we really evolved or are we still primitive or maybe even going back?