In The Beginning...

[Wi11iam]

Hi!

What do you think about this statement?

Everything which has a beginning is by that very fact - a simulation.

Cheers!

W

[Bedeekin]

OMFG...YOU HAVE JUST BLOWN MY FRICKIN MIND!!!!!!!

and he leaves the room brain damaged. 

Sorry.. the way you said that was like you walked into a room... quietened everyone down... and dropped a massive profound bombshell... said 'cheers' then left. Each person suffering a stroke or haemorrhage as it slowly dawns on them. The potentiality of that revelation leaving them in a state of flux.

aaanyway

Yes... very true.

[Astralzombie]

  :-DHold on... , give me a sec...

Ok, Im good now. I couldn't help but picture you clicking on this thread and imagining you were gonna read any number of things. Anything other than what was actually written.

Beedeekin, tell me that wasn't weird. That statement was for all to see but it was directed at you.

[Wi11iam]

OMFG...YOU HAVE JUST BLOWN MY FRICKIN MIND!!!!!!!

and he leaves the room brain damaged. 

Sorry.. the way you said that was like you walked into a room... quietened everyone down... and dropped a massive profound bombshell... said 'cheers' then left. Each person suffering a stroke or haemorrhage as it slowly dawns on them. The potentiality of that revelation leaving them in a state of flux.

aaanyway

Yes... very true.

No seriously....it is nothing to be alarmed about.  But yes, it does get one thinking, depending upon their personal and/or shared belief systems.  It seems obvious once the realization settles that consciousness has ever always been...that is to say, has no beginning, and beginnings are like programs in a simulation in which the concept of having a beginning can be explored.
Brains need not be damaged by this information.

[Wi11iam]

:-DHold on... , give me a sec...

Ok, Im good now. I couldn't help but picture you clicking on this thread and imagining you were gonna read any number of things. Anything other than what was actually written.

Beedeekin, tell me that wasn't weird. That statement was for all to see but it was directed at you.

Seems like some kind of discussion in relation to this concept has perhaps recently happened on this board?  It wasn't directed at anyone in particular...just placed there to stimulate thought and maybe discussion.

[Astralzombie]

Seems like some kind of discussion in relation to this concept has perhaps recently happened on this board?  It wasn't directed at anyone in particular...just placed there to stimulate thought and maybe discussion.

In a way, yes. I'm not sure about Beedeekin's personal thoughts on everything but he has a very good way of explaining things using programs and simulations as metaphors to get certain points across. Couple that with some recent talk about synchronicity, and I can easily picture him staring at the computer screen shorting the keyboard with drool.

Actually, he's way over being wowed by synchronicity.

[Bedeekin]

I was actually agreeing with the statement... but found the cool confident delivery of the initial post very amusing.. probably unintended by William.

I have been mulling it over and it makes profound sense. In a way that I can't seem to elaborate on it other than to agree at the moment.

[Steel Hawk]

Um. I guess I'm slow... but isn't a simulation simulating something that already exists and how could you simulate a process that has no concept and does not exist? 

[Wi11iam]

Um. I guess I'm slow...

1: but isn't a simulation simulating something that already exists

and

2: how could you simulate a process that has no concept and does not exist? 

1:  Are there video games which simulate what is in the imagination of the game creators?

2:  If something had no beginning and wanted to experience what a beginning would be like, what might be involved to 'make it so'?

[Wi11iam]

I was actually agreeing with the statement... but found the cool confident delivery of the initial post very amusing.. probably unintended by William.

I have been mulling it over and it makes profound sense. In a way that I can't seem to elaborate on it other than to agree at the moment.

Not intended but appreciated.

Sleep on it - maybe you will have elaboration upon awakening....certainly it helps if other minds are helping process the significance of this data together.

[Steel Hawk]

Then is not the imagination the source of all things then? 

[AstralCody]

I like the sound of it, but... I can't process that and I read it about fifteen times. How sad it that. xD

[Wi11iam]

Then is not the imagination the source of all things then? 

That which the imagination requires in order to be the imagination is 'The Source Of All Things'.  The source of all things is Consciousness. 

[Wi11iam]

I like the sound of it, but... I can't process that and I read it about fifteen times. How sad it that. xD

Come from a different angle...think in terms of what it would be like to never have had a beginning...come from that direction and it might be easier for you to process. 

[Astralzombie]

Come from a different angle...think in terms of what it would be like to never have had a beginning...come from that direction and it might be easier for you to process. 

Since all of our memories are just simulations, a favorite memory is a good place to start. Imagine how random each memory really is and then imagine that's where your life started.

[Wi11iam]

Since all of our memories are just simulations, a favorite memory is a good place to start. Imagine how random each memory really is and then imagine that's where your life started.

I am not speaking of memories.  These have beginnings and are thus also simulations - or subjective interpretations of the simulation experience of your 'life package' (inclusive of all extra...alternate states) and the statement Everything which has a beginning is by that very fact - a simulation goes much deeper than a life package, the physical universe and even the astral realm...the only way to truly begin understand the implication is to imagine what it would be like to have never had a beginning and yet exist.

Then one can glimpse how all things which do have a beginning are simulations...fractals.  To experience 'different states'.

[Volgerle]

It all hinges on how you define 'simulation'.

[Astralzombie]

I am not speaking of memories.  These have beginnings and are thus also simulations - or subjective interpretations of the simulation experience of your 'life package' (inclusive of all extra...alternate states) and the statement Everything which has a beginning is by that very fact - a simulation goes much deeper than a life package, the physical universe and even the astral realm...the only way to truly begin understand the implication is to imagine what it would be like to have never had a beginning and yet exist.

Then one can glimpse how all things which do have a beginning are simulations...fractals.  To experience 'different states'.

I understand that you were not speaking of memories, but I was trying to trow an example out there to help another member.

I understand the concept but it's not very beneficial to the practical. If we are really honest with our selves, not too many of us can really grasp what it means for this reality or any other to not have a beginning.

Pondering this too long is as useful as wondering what it would be like for nothing to have ever existed in the first place.

After all, nothing itself must exist if nothing exists. Only there would be no consciousness to define the concept of nothing.

I think I just lost some brain cells.

[Astralzombie]

It all hinges on how you define 'simulation'.

Exactly. But if he defines the simulation, then the definition becomes it's beginning in a sense. So we can point to that as being the origin.

[Bedeekin]

The simulation of this reality by definition is very hard to define because we can only describe simulation based upon the way we 'simulate' things in this reality... computer generated... food... objects. we simulate every day. We use a simulation to work our way around a computer screen that involves pressing icons. The interface on your screen is a simulated user friendly way of navigating what is essentially a very abstract but logical process.

I am still trying to get my head around your statement William. Not get my head around it... but rather to expand on it.

I know what you mean.. but there needs to be a defined 'beginning' for the statement to exist. Do you mean the current theory that there was a 'big bang' type scenario?

Also... this reality is the at the bottom (or top) of the tree... at the moment anyway. So this is as real as it gets.. so this 'simulation' is an example of the most advanced simulation there is. We have no basis of comparison.. other than looking at other PMRs.

Calling it a simulated reality is also by definition of the word 'simulation' slightly wrong.

[Wi11iam]

It all hinges on how you define 'simulation'.

Can it be defined more than one way?

[Astralzombie]

I just can't imagine anything not having an origin. A reality can't have a beginning and simultaneously have a past and a future. That is to say, it can just exist in the middle of the game and not become a new game on to itself.

If we can exist outside of our concept of time, then maybe. But all we have is our concept of time.

Like I said, if there is nothing in existence, than nothing does exist and therefor nothing must be the beginning.

But I think William is trying to make us consider the possibility that we are really just some experiment that is playing out. If so, I would say yes.

[Bedeekin]

But we mustn't confuse the idea of an experiment as being conducted by an outside influencer or 'experimenter'... like the Matrix or cosmic force.

Also... we should try not to imagine that we are an experiment taking place within another reality that is more real than this one. This isn't a copy or simulation of some other constrained reality... this is the result of a top down fractal process that is running a constrained simulation with the express function of cause and effect. The cause being free will and choice... the effect being intent.

We do exist outside/inside our concept of time when viewed from a nonphysical perspective. 

[Wi11iam]

I just can't imagine anything not having an origin. A reality can't have a beginning and simultaneously have a past and a future. That is to say, it can just exist in the middle of the game and not become a new game on to itself.

If we can exist outside of our concept of time, then maybe. But all we have is our concept of time.

Like I said, if there is nothing in existence, than nothing does exist and therefor nothing must be the beginning.

But I think William is trying to make us consider the possibility that we are really just some experiment that is playing out. If so, I would say yes.

Great Feedback!

I have written something since coming back to read these entries which I will share after I have replied...

You actually can imagine something which does not have an origin once you identify WITH it.
Part of the problem  is that we are discussing a concept while WITHIN the simulation, and we are trained to think of ourselves as ...well many things like gender, race, political, sexual, religious, spiritual orientation  etc – all of which are in themselves part of the simulation, or what is derived from experiencing the simulation.

This is to say, what we THINK we are is not what we really are.  It is rather the by-product of this particular simulation.

Time has to do with the simulations of course.  Timelessness is not an easy thing to understand because of this, but we DO have imagination which is somewhat more able to work in timeless conceptualizing.

'Nothing' is the thing which gives evidence of the simulation, for us within it.  Remember what it is that calls something 'nothing' – and by that definition pronounces it to be 'something.' (This is not as mysterious as it may sound.)

To clarify – what I am doing is not trying to get you to consider we are some experiment being played out so much as suggesting the consideration that...at the source, WE are that consciousness which created the simulations and then embarked into them.

We forgot our self.

But, we are able to remember.

But we mustn't confuse the idea of an experiment as being conducted by an outside influencer or 'experimenter'... like the Matrix or cosmic force.

Also... we should try not to imagine that we are an experiment taking place within another reality that is more real than this one. This isn't a copy or simulation of some other constrained reality... this is the result of a top down fractal process that is running a constrained simulation with the express function of cause and effect. The cause being free will and choice... the effect being intent.

We do exist outside/inside our concept of time when viewed from a nonphysical perspective. 

I touch on this in what I wrote before coming back to see your replies...
I think we need to bypass the notion that we are an experiment, as I mentioned in my above reply.
The non physical – I am assuming – it that which I call 'The Astral Realm' – the NPMR as Tom Campbell calls it...or rather the AUM/AOM.

Whatever it is called, whatever the other PMRs which exist seemingly independent of this – our particular physical universe, altogether they are also simulations, because they too have a beginning.

Below is that which I wrote before seeing your replies:  Sorry the post is so long.  I am always working on trying to be more concise while not omitting any necessary data.
~~~~~~~~~~~~

I have defined the evidence of 'simulation' as everything which has a beginning.  The definition is not its beginning in the sense that if I were to create an elaborate game in my imagination, the game itself remains there until I actualise it – so the seed of the notion or the complete blueprint of it in my mind could be seen as its beginning, but until actualised...it is only ever a potential. 

That it exists in consciousness as an abstract or even a precise idea can be seen as its beginning.
Yet...
Every Thing which has a beginning derives this status from its actuality.  It has become a 'thing.'

All things require consciousness in order to be, and remain potential beginnings which can be acknowledged as potential beginnings or through interactive experience as actual beginnings. 

Everything which has a beginning is by that very fact - a simulation.

Would it be fair to say that if a potential thing becomes an actual thing, and its beginning can be traced to its source – therefore its beginning started as an idea, therefore the idea is a 'thing' which had a beginning and therefore is by that fact a simulation itself?

And if so, since ideas derive from consciousness, and begin there, then ideas are simulations – but the consciousness thinking the ideas is real.

In the sense of creating something in order to experience what it might be like to have a beginning, from the outside of this mechanism, it would be a 'simulator' and from the inside it would be...whatever it was designed to let you experience.

It would be a beginning.

[Wi11iam]

The simulation of this reality by definition is very hard to define because we can only describe simulation based upon the way we 'simulate' things in this reality... computer generated... food... objects. we simulate every day. We use a simulation to work our way around a computer screen that involves pressing icons. The interface on your screen is a simulated user friendly way of navigating what is essentially a very abstract but logical process.

I am still trying to get my head around your statement William. Not get my head around it... but rather to expand on it.

I know what you mean.. but there needs to be a defined 'beginning' for the statement to exist. Do you mean the current theory that there was a 'big bang' type scenario?

Also... this reality is the at the bottom (or top) of the tree... at the moment anyway. So this is as real as it gets.. so this 'simulation' is an example of the most advanced simulation there is. We have no basis of comparison.. other than looking at other PMRs.

Calling it a simulated reality is also by definition of the word 'simulation' slightly wrong.

Now to further stretch the mind, lets say consciousness which ever and always has been wanted to create simulation of a beginning and no end.

That is 'birth' without death.

Could this simulation be what is referred to (among other things) as 'The Astral Realm'?

Now stretching the mind even more, what if that which had a beginning and no end, and some point in its evolution, wanted to know what it was like to have an end, thus created this physical universe as something that could simulate that?

Or more to the point, created many scenarios which have endings...and what happens at the end?  The consciousnesses which experienced these PMR simulations return to the place where they entered into said simulations, which in this explanation would be 'returns to the Astral.'