Nicotine Patches & Dreams

[personalreality]

I'm putting this in chat because I'm not recommending that anyone just get nicotine patches to try it out. 

So, i'm trying to quit smoking and my lady has been buying us nicotine patches.  There is a "warning label" (which bothers me that they call it a warning) on the box talking about extremely vivid dreams along with sleep disturbance.  They aren't kidding.

I've even started putting my patches on at night before bed to get the most effect.  I've been having the most vivid and surreal/realistic dreams i've ever had.  more real than even a lucid dream or AP.  it's like dreaming on LSD or tripping on DMT.  what's more is the sleep disturbance bit.  for me at least, i have been waking up like every couple of hours throughout the night.  it might sound like a bad thing, but truthfully it's cool because that means i'm remembering several amazing dreams a night.  unfortunately for me, i've just been too frickin tired to write any of them down as they happen (because i'm also on some medication that makes me really tired) so i don't have a journal of them.  if i can motivate myself to start writing them down i would have at least 4-6+ dreams per night in my journal!

so, firstly, DO NOT BUY NICOTINE PATCHES AND TRY THIS IF YOU DON'T SMOKE.  IT WILL MAKE YOU SICK.  i'm not kidding.  your body isn't used to nicotine in your system and you will get sick (headache, nausea, insomnia, chills, grossness all around).  i'm really serious about that. 

but, if you are a smoker, try buying the 21mg nicotine patch (you can't smoke when you wear it or you will also get sick) and putting it on before bed.  it may prove to be an interesting night.  and hey, since you already bought the patches, why don't you quit smoking too?   

again, if you're not a smoker, DO NOT DO THIS.  but if you are and you wanna quit, this is a really interesting side effect to the nicotine patch.

[daytona955]

I had exactly the same thing when I last gave up (smoking again now though ) The dreams were amazing! I didn't have the sleep disturbance though, just real vivid dreams! Unfortunately, I hadn't discovered the world of AP and LD back then, I might give it another go!

[kurtykurt42]

I was about to try it, until you said I can't smoke if I'm wearing the patches.... 

[personalreality]

I was about to try it, until you said I can't smoke if I'm wearing the patches.... 

so i smoke a lot (pack and a half a day) and the highest over the counter patches are 21mgs. 


my doc told me that because of how much i smoked i could probably (and should probably) still have a couple cigs throughout the day for a little while because i really should have started at prescription level patches (28mgs.)

so point being, if you smoke a lot, you probably wouldn't have a problem.

however, you could just buy them, put the patch on at night before bed, take it off in the morning and still get the same effect.

[blis]

What if you used to smoke lol. I quit around two years ago.

[kurtykurt42]

so i smoke a lot (pack and a half a day) and the highest over the counter patches are 21mgs. 


my doc told me that because of how much i smoked i could probably (and should probably) still have a couple cigs throughout the day for a little while because i really should have started at prescription level patches (28mgs.)

so point being, if you smoke a lot, you probably wouldn't have a problem.

however, you could just buy them, put the patch on at night before bed, take it off in the morning and still get the same effect.

I'll give it a try but to be honest, I don't like dreams that much anyways.

[personalreality]

I'll give it a try but to be honest, I don't like dreams that much anyways.

Then why did you even express interest in the first place?

It's an interesting experience.  It's probably worth trying just because.

What if you used to smoke lol. I quit around two years ago.

i made my disclaimer, i felt ethically obligated to so.

that said, if anyone wants to try it, by all means give it a shot.  just remember that i warned you.  it won't kill you, but it may make you feel really ill.  i got the most intense effect from the "Step 1" or 21mg patch.  however, there are steps 2 & 3 which are a lower mg (i don't know what the mg is off the top of my head for 2 & 3).  but you could try just putting it on at night before bed and taking it off as soon as you wake up.  that said, those things are really expensive to buy just to see if they make you have whacky dreams (1 week of step one, so 7 patches, cost like $40 US). 

it's safe, it won't kill you, you just might get really sick and feel like crap for a while.  so....try it if you want but there is a risk of being sick from it.  who knows maybe you'll be fine though.

[dotster]

The nicotine patch produces these effects because of the way that nicotine is dealt with in the brain. I will explain it to you so you can make your own comparisons/decisions, but as nicotine is a well known physically addictive substance and physicality isn't something many of us want to be addicted to I would recommend the galantamine/choline combo that has been discussed on the forums which can be used without the chance of physical addiction and hence could be a stepping stone of sorts to get you comfortable to being lucid in the dream state to the point where you no longer even need the galantamine/choline.

Nicotine
When nicotine enters into the brain it attaches itself to a subset of receptors that bind the neurotransmitter acetylcholine (acetylecholine is a neurotransmitter that activates and maintains REM sleep). Similar to acetylcholine, nicotine leads to a spike of receptor activity but nicotine is not regulated by your body. The nicotine activates cholinergic neurons in many different regions of the brain and this stimulation causes a few things to happen but mainly it increases the amount of acetylcholine production and also a releases glutamate (which is a neurotransmitter that deals with learning and memory). So when you wear a nicotine patch and you go to sleep you have this constant stream of nicotine stimulating high levels of acetylcholine and glutamate and as glutamate enhances the connections between sets of neurons your memory recall is "boosted" so to speak allowing easier recall.

The reason I personally wouldn't prefer this method is because the stimulation of cholinergic neurons releases dopamine into the brains reward pathways, and this area of the brain is supposed to be used to reinforce our survival instincts. Stimulating this part of the brain produces feelings of happiness (like after eating after you have been starving all day) to promote you to continue to do these actions because it makes you feel happy afterwards so eventually you end up dependent on nicotine because it's been wrongly added to your arsenal of survival instincts so to speak.

Galantamine/Choline

Galantamine temporarily puts a halt to the breakdown of acetylcholine, but does not effect production and in this way acetylcholine starts to build up. Not only does galantamine inhibit acetylcholine but it is also an agonist for acetylcholine. This means that while it inhibits the breakdown it also just "goes with the flow" and acts as acetylcholine itself essentially doubling the amount acetylcholine action in the brain. Choline is a necessary molecule in the production of acetylCHOLINE. The two should be taken together for results. The recommended dosage is 4-8mg of galantamine with 400-800mg of choline (upping these doses does not "up" the experience). The recommended advice is to get a few hours of sleep then wake up and take the supplement, get up, use the restroom etc. for a few minutes to an hour and then go back to sleep.

You have all of the information along with my thoughts on the matter, the rest is up to you guys! I hope this has helped clear up some things for you.

All the best,
dotster