Sept. 11 is George Bush's fault

[Kristen]

Hi All -

Tisha - spirited debate is what's happening here... conversations like this allow people to connect and exchange ideas - learn things - get inspired to look at things in different ways.... react to things in different ways... getting ideas out there and wrangling with them can build connections between ideas, clarify thought and can lead to action.  Political movements are built on ideas.  Political systems and law and society really rest on philosophy.  Its really no small thing.  

Now, about those dead philosophers.... may I suggest that you try to read something by a dead philosopher - and try to resist the urge to let your eyes gloss over and to nod off... there's lots of wisdom coming down through the ages - my first recommendation is one of my favorites and especially speaks to spiritual pursuit and enlightenment - Plato's Republic.

Take care,

Kristen

P.S.  "Why have you ever noticed that opinion without knowledge is always a shabby sort of thing?  At the best it is blind.  One who holds a true belief without intelligence is just like a blind man who happens to take the right road.  Isn't he?"
-Republic

[Tisha]

Ug, Kristen, I'm a very educated, well-read person who has had ample time and willingness throughout the years to be inspired, amused, confused, and bored by some of the worlds most prominent philosophers.  And my Jewish brother-in-law has his Masters in philosophy, and he teaches, so suffice it to say I've had more than enough philosophical debate to understand that most of it is philosophical one-up-man-ship (which one of us can remember the most theories and quotes?) and, well, something I call mental masturbation, intense brain activity that winds its way into . . . hopefully a "climax" . . . and then, nothing.

Philosophy does nothing unless you use the knowledge to change yourself . . . not the world "out there" but your entire reality.   None of us can really do anything about 9/11 or the fact that there is evil in the world (and don't you dare start listing the philosophical reasons why this is the case!).  All you can do is change yourself and in doing so change reality itself.

Your quotes and philosophical observations are interesting . . . they are sometimes even relevant and enjoyable, so keep them up, I don't mind at all.  My point is just . . . don't just live in your head, DO something.

Tisha

[Mobius]

G,day Tisha

Well, this is only chat in here, an off the topic forum from the usual OBE's & as Kristen wrote, it's just an exchanging of ideas really. It hasn't got too long as I've seen some forums with up to 15 pages of replies, we are a third of the way on this one.

As far as the questions go, havn't much time for this, but will answer briefly anyway even though it's not all directed at me.

a)I have a 4 cylinder car that gets 500km out of a full tank & walk quite a fair bit, if I had access to a free energy device that can power cars productively I would use it & applaud the efforts of free energy scientists who fight against huge power corporations for patents. The mentality of the people in power are from the baby boomer & above generation who still cling to the idea that a product must have a certain life span, preferably just after the warranty expires, oil fits this critique nicely & since most westerners depend on them for survival in a world where they can't live without money, it will continue as long as the executives want it too.

b) I try to shop as environmentally conscious as I can & purposely alienate products that have bad press with the wider public, use the same plastic bags every week, I don't eat foods that are GMO's & don't shop in places with bad human rights abuse records. The only drugs I take are pharmecutical drugs which I need to sustain life at a reasonable standard & they are all owned by American companies who admit to rediculous prices & profits but say the reason is that they need to fund experimental research that might turn out to be a dead end.

c) I'm well aware of what my own country gets up to &  I am even more passionate about exposing political deceptions & scams at home as I can't do much about you guys from over hear. Funny you should say what am I doing about it, I recently closed a case I had with the tax department over returns & lost funds, did very nicely thanks, also I have a supreme court action in process at the moment & is being negotiated at present.

d) I thought the butter thing was a light hearted dig, to break things up a little.

e)From what I saw of the t.v coverage, most people including the ones on this forum were opposed to it's existence. There is a free range farm 3km from where I live, mmmmmmmm.

f) Personally I have had the chance to confront a politician, I told him I didn't vote for him & his re-election was rigged. He smiled & shook my hand & said I'll try a bit better this time around. A month later he was in jail for child molestation charges & is serving a 15 year sentence, Bill Darcy. Countries are run by governments that are elected on a 51% majority and deals made with minor parties to secure that 51% majority, meaning 49% of the country don't want the guy speaking for them or running the country for them, most countries experience vote rigging to enforce that particular parties chances of election. Most people these days know that politicians have power,but only political power, which is highly influenced by what big buisness wants.

I,ve got to cut things short here, gotta go, but see no reason to try and forget what has happened with 9/11, choosing to move on with solutions. I agree with your solution but some people really do think the past is the past, I've personally learnt that like me, courts don't believe the past is just the past & should forget about perpetrators of these crimes otherwise there is repeats, because they think they can get away with it again.

Physical & Astral peace too you all

Mobius

[Kristen]

Hi Tisha -

Oh my.  Well I never!  Mental masterbation aye?  Sometimes even relevent aye? Dare not quote philosophy as to why such and such is the case you say?   I think I shall throw a tantrum!

So "miss put your mouth with your money is or shut up"  - what have you done to make the world a better place?

That's a real question....


Kristen

[steveb]

"oh boy" I've just realized why i'm single

Regards Steve

[Tisha]

Geez, I need to put more smiley-faces in my text, I'm coming off as angry when I'm only earnest  http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_big.gif" border=0>  .  When I get on my soapbox its mostly to "Save the World," not to indulge in knee-jerk ego-driven rants.  Sometimes I succeed better than others!

tish

[Grenade01]

jeez
this thread is still goin? hahah

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[PeacefulWarrior]

What have I done?  What have I done, ahhhhhhhhhhh! jk

Actually, we can philosophize ourselves to death, liiterally...therefore I agree with Kristen, at the end of the day we need to ask ourselves, "What have I done to make the world a better place?  What have I done to better myself?"  I love to philosophize and conversate, however and that is why I love this forum and spoecifically this thread.

fides quaerens intellectum

[PeacefulWarrior]

It really bothers me that the media, thanks to the personal agendas of certain political figures, are trying to place blame on Bush and others.  Of course in retrospect we all wish that certain warnings would have been taken more seriously, but that's attributed to hind sight.  Only one group is responsible for what happened on Sept. 11: the terrorists themselves.  


fides quaerens intellectum