Spiritual Truths website

[Tom]

To be honest, and I didn't expect to be, it seems like a duplication of this web site. I don't understand why we couldn't have had a few more forums here instead.

[Frank]

Duplication?

No, free market-research is banned (so they say).

More forums?

I feel a new title coming on.

Yours,
Frank

[Tom]

I have to ask. What is free market research and who would ban it?

Which new title did you have in mind?

[PeacefulWarrior]

I was elated to find that Adrian had gone and created another place to discuss our existence...but then I found this:

"We will not engage in any sort of, dogma, doctrine, "belief system" cult, creed or religion, but rather to investigate, discuss, realise and pursue incontrovertible Spiritual and Universal truths and realities in their most absolute terms. Neither are we interested in any sort of, orthodox, dogmatic or religiously oriented or inspired "spiritualism", or in any form of "spiritualism" inspired in any way whatsoever by any sort of commercialism, sensationalism, or any sort of fame or media seeking oriented motivation."
                  -http://www.spiritualtruths.org

One of the first "spiritual truths" I found in this life is that truth itself can be found anywhere...  I know how Adrian feels about religion, you can find some friendly debates between he and I here in the astral pulse (the Lords is my Light, etc.) and I thought we had concluded that religous people such as myself (I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints) who see the big pciture and are open to ideas such as OBE, etc. are definetly on the right path...and although many might say "Any religion or belief system is hindering" I disagree.  I see their point, but what about a belief system that is open ended, such as that of the LDS church?

Anyway, I am still going to register at the new site...but if I attempt to discuss my beliefs am I GOING TO BE PERSECUTED like the preists of old who defied the Catholic church and taught people to read Latin so they could read and interpret the Bible for themselves?  I think the statement like the one I posted above shows the EXACT same close minded attitude that many religous zealots have shown in the past and show today.  Is the above statement not a creed or belief system itself?  Had I written the intro to the new website myself I think I might have just said "Come as you are and bring what truth you have found and share it with us, that we may learn and progress together.

I am still excited about the site and I wish Adrian the best.  I think it will be an additional blessing for us all.  I just wanted to share my thoughts.

-Daniel

fides quaerens intellectum

[James S]

I think I see what Adrian is getting at. At first I questioned the bit about not engaging in discussion about Belief Systems, but that's not what he wrote, it was "Belief System cult, creed or religion".

In other words, dont bring along discussions and perspectives based on what you're minister, pastor, spirital leader, guru, whatever has told you to believe, or what a book has told you to believe, but what you really have seen yourself based on what you have experienced. Your own personal experiences are what really makes up spiritual truth.

For Frank, a spiritual truth is that he has a guide called Harath, who is teaching him about the Astral planes. Another of Frank's truths is that there are souls trapped in the wrong levels of the Astral, that sometimes need help getting to the afterlife, an Astral level that for Frank is now an unquestionable truth.

For me, a spiritual truth is the spirit of nature. The "Green Lady" herself has visited me, and is regularly in touch with me and guiding me. This was a real experience for me. I did not learn who she is or how to believe in her from a teacher or book. She came to me directly herself, and is now encouraging me to learn Astral Projection so I can then visit her to learn more. What I learn of the Astral as a result will be added to my beliefs, and my spiritual truths.




James S

- You don't choose the belief, the belief chooses you!

[Mobius]

I like the new site, havn't posted there yet, but I'm glad Adrian (& others) wrote that intro, finally!

The problem with religions is ALL of them say "We see the big picture & are open to ideas". You can never see that until you step away from it & investigate for yourself instead of being dealt out religous text that have dubious origins & accepting that it is the truth without question.

The main 2 reasons why people join or stay in a religion is as follows:
1) A fear of death & the after life & a belief that practicing that faith will reserve a spot for you in heaven, paradise, or give you a good reincarnation etc etc. even though you don't KNOW this, you just accept it out of fear & there are people who are counting on it.

2) Your friends, family or peers are a member of the particular religion you are involved with & you don't want to be ostracised by disagreeing with those you have to live with, & don't want to lose friends, so you conform to what they conformed to when they were in your position, & as a bonus, you are told that you will be a good person because of it. The hypocracy & irony of it all & the fact that you KNOW your friends, family & peers don't actually live by the rules set out by your faith for you & them, but it is lost in the fervent rush to comply & not stand out.

Here I go again,IMO, it is all about the MONEY. Religions are a business & the original idea they were based on was lost soon after their prophets death. To be picked up, retranslated, twisted, edited, & repackaged for one singular reason...........money.

On that "lord is the light" post, in the end, we agreed to disagree.

Good journeys

Mobius

[lucid dancer]

Am I the only one who is having a problem recieving the site? I'm able to see the front page, but everything I clicked on took forever to load. I don't think it's my computer. Other sites are just fine. I don't get it. Maybe I'll try it again later. What a bummer!

[James S]

OK, I'm there, I'm on and its a great sitehttp://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_approve.gif" border=0>

Did have a bit of a problem registering (had to have a couple of attempts), though I think half of it was my ISP playing silly-buggers at peak time in the evening.

Must say it is a GREAT site. The layout is similar to this, but with softer layout & colour scheme.

For anyone really serious about experiencing or learning about the spiritual world, and our spiritual/energy selves, I think this site will soo provide a wealth of info. Astral Pulse is no doubt great for better getting to know people with similar spiritual interests and goals, and is a good freindly fun BBS, but Spiritual Truth I think will be better for getting to the heart of why we are really here.

James S

- You don't choose the belief, the belief chooses you!

[Frank]

Yes, James, well said.

I do very much agree with Adrian's definitions and can see that a lot of thought has gone into formulating the basis upon which the discussion group will operate. For a while now, I've been scouting around looking at other groups and it's all a complete mish-mash. Astral Pulse really does stand out, and I'm not just saying that because I'm a regular here.

But for a while now, I've thought there is the need for a discussion group that goes beyond beliefs and concentrates more on actual truths.

I can see where Adrian is basically coming from: he simply doesn't want people contributing by talking about beliefs that have come about by anything other than hands-on experience. I suppose that he feels if enough people make the right kind of contributions then, eventually, we might be able to make some kind of concrete sense of it all.

Yours,
Frank

[Frank]

quote:Originally posted by James S:
Must say it is a GREAT site. The layout is similar to this, but with softer layout & colour scheme.

Yes, and a similarly cheesy logo.

Yours,
Frank


(Just kidding Ade)

[WalkerInTheWoods]

I have to agree with Adrian's statement. There are enough places to discuss beliefs and religion. This new site seems to be one that is to be about experience into the spiritual. He does not want the entanglements of religions or other organized beliefs that are based only on faith where arguments can arise with no one having proof of being right or wrong. I look forward to this site and what will be discussed there in an objective manner.

[Jeff_Mash]

Ok, I am TORN between this subject.  I kind of agree when people say, "What do we need another message board for?"  It seems to me that this one which we're on now is plenty sufficient.

Also, people like me are very strapped for time.  It's so much easier for me to come to one place and read all the messages, instead of bouncing between multiple boards.   But that is just my problem.

So I guess I am wondering this: What will I find on this new board that I WON'T find here?  I like staying here because of the people and their knowledgeable feedback...but if all of those people who I look up to and respect end up migrating to a different place, then I will be tmepted to go there instead of here....not juggle between the two.

Confused.....

Jeff

[liefmichael]

im sure there is a right belief and wrong however...  if we can prove it or not.  you cant make up your own answer for 2 + 2, it equals 4.  killing is wrong, agreed?  lying is wrong, why? (i dont kill and i try not to lie however, just throwing ideas around)

[Tisha]

I understand and agree with the website's instructions to leave our Dogma at the door.  But there is no avoiding the Belief Systems.  Without Belief Systems, it's hard to talk about your experiences.  Not impossible, but hard.  Without people speaking your language, who are you going to talk to?  The mirror?

Folks, one of the nice things about a belief system is that it can give you a language to use.  OBE-ers with their "Focus 10, focus 27" discussions are operating within a belief system . . . a system that states that such places in time/space exist, and that they have names.  There is nothing wrong with that.  People who have never been to Focus Anywhere can now carry on whole conversations about these time/spaces, and no one on this forum will challenge them.  What are we going to call this phenomenon?  Monroeism?  Frankism? (sorry Frank!)

All of those Carlos Casteneda books provided lucid dreamers and OBE-ers with a completely different language and belief system to help people cope with, or develop (as appropriate) their otherworldly experiences.

Tribal religions all had their terminologies.  Shamanism, witchcraft, voodoo, you-name-it, all of them had pantheons of spirits and gods and spiritual/magickal phenomena and regions in the Otherworld (Avalon, Vahalla, etc).

Even the mystical branches of established, dogmatic religions have their own terminology and instructions regarding transcendant, spiritual experiences.  If someone uses this language, is he/she going to be reprimanded?  What's the point of that?

I see a lot of correspondences between the different "languages" of the Belief Systems.  It's a beautiful thing.

Adrian, if you are reading this post, please reconsider re-wording the introduction.  Because by leaving in the Belief System wording, the forum will turn into a tinkling contest between people who use the language of different Belief Systems but who stubbornly deny that they even have them.  A lot of wasted time, if you ask me.

Instead, in plain English, say something like this:  

1.  The whole point of this foum is to discuss PERSONAL experiences relating to spiritual truths, spirituality, etc.  
2.  Efforts to convert readers to a specific Belief System will be poorly received.  
3.  If an explanation or suggestion is based upon someone ELSE's personal experience (whether Jesus or Moses or Monroe or Robert Bruce or Casteneda or Frank), SAY SO.  This is called journalistic integrity!

This is my rant for the day.  Thanks for listening!


Tisha

"As Above, So Below"

[Adrian]

Greetings everyone!

Thanks very much indeed for your comments and observations  http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

I have listened to what everyone has to say, and have modified the opening statement somewhat accordingly. Of course, that statement will be replaced as time goes by with material of relevance as it transpires.

I realise that "belief system" and "religion" encompass a multitude of things, and of course it it perfectly possible to embrace a spiritual approach while still being religiously oriented.

So I have left the emphasis against creed, dogma and doctrine, which is what we are really trying to transcend here. I certainly would not want people not to find value in the site due to certain definitions used there.

So how about some discussions over on that site? http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0> It is always the situation with a new site where it is necessary to go from zero to active discussions, and the only way that will happen is with participation!

I welcome everyone on the Spiritual Truths site and here equally of course.

With kind regards,

Adrian.

[Adrian]

quote:Originally posted by PeacefulWarrior:

One of the first "spiritual truths" I found in this life is that truth itself can be found anywhere...  I know how Adrian feels about religion, you can find some friendly debates between he and I here in the astral pulse (the Lords is my Light, etc.) and I thought we had concluded that religous people such as myself (I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints) who see the big pciture and are open to ideas such as OBE, etc.

Greetings Daniel!

Thanks for your comments and observations - they are always appreciated I assure you.

You need not be concerned though. Spiritual Truths is about taking a positive approach to the truth in its own right, and not how it compares to religion.

I absolutely respect religious people of course, and their right to hold their beliefs, but Spiritual Truths is not intended to examine Spiritual issues according to, or by comparison with the churches standpoint, but based on facts, and evidence, or in fact truths in their own rights.

Clearly, alot of truth is open to debate,and interpretation, but the objective and hope is to examine that which is tangible, rather than that which is written in a book of words. And the experience of many people here, Frank for example who's contribution is  greatly valued, is directly substantive and important to the whole aspect of Spiritual Truths in several respects, and is based directly upon incontravertible first hand experience, not dogma.

Many people might revolt against the entire concept of examination of Spiritual truths outside the context of religion, and that is fine. When people realise the significance of these issues, and wish to pursue them, or even to incorporate them into their exising beliefs, then the Spirtual Truths site exists as a resource to assist to the extent an individual finds it useful.

An example of this is to perhaps discuss who was this man "Jesus". Very few, myself included, would deny he existed, or that he had a  profound impact on mankind, but it might be useful to analyse his mission and contrast it with the interpretation and fulfilment of that mission over the centuries. We can do that perfectly well without being negative or disrepectful to religious people - indeed - I would certainly hope we can discuss things in that way.

Another example is the plight of those extremely unfortunate Souls have have just died to the physical world, i.e. "passed over", but linger around cemetaries with their body awaiting "judgement day".  Of course "judgement day" whereby an Archangel arrives and blows his trumpet, never happens, and these poor Souls become caught in the vibrations of the Earth zone. Until these Souls can destroy this "thought form" they have created for themselves over their lifetime, and which often requires  the assistance of Souls/Spirits e.g from the Astral realm, they cannot progress to the level of the Astral that is appropriate to them.

These issues go beyond religion, to the very Soul and Spirit.

With kind regards,

Adrian.

[lucid dancer]

Why should I consider being a member when I can't even get the site to work?  I'm trying to understand this.  After clicking on active topics, it showed the page, but everything else wouldn't load. For example, I clicked on the first post and waited three full minutes for the page to pop up. Nothing happened. Did it freeze or was it still loading? I do have a nice computer. I don't know what the problem could be.     ...So guys, if you don't see me there, this is why!!!

[Adrian]

Greetings Lucid Dancer

I am not sure why you are seeing those problems with the Spiritual Truths site. It loads for me just fine.

But, of course, I do want to ensure everyone is able to access the site. Is anyone else having any problems please? And if so, if Lucid and those having problems could provide as much details as possible it would be most useful.

Thank you very much indeed.

With kind regards,

Adrian.

[justine]

.............

[Adrian]

Hi Justine,

I can't understand that - yet anyway.

Lots have people have registered and a few have posted in the forums, and alot have browsed the site generally.

Is anyone else having problems?

With kind regards,

Adrian.

[James S]

For anybody who is having difficulty accessing the site, check the security settings on your browser. Temporarily switch the settings to low or no security, that is, allow all cookies to load, all active content to run, etc. There are a fair few active components on the web pages which you might not be letting through, in which case your browser will just stall or refuse to completely load the page.

I am currently at a PC running IE 5.0 (try to avoid 5.5 if you can - it's way too unstable) with security set to Medium. All is ok.

If I go home and try to bring up the page with similar settings under IE 6.0 it won't work. Micro$oft in their infinite wisdom have started screwing around with security setups to disallow cookies, simply because they have worked around them and no longer need them for their interfacing purposes. Trouble is these same setting mess up a whole load of other security settings.
If you're running IE 6.0 select a low setting & try again.

These settings (or similar) can also be changed under Netscape, Mozilla or Opera

If you get through ok, then slowly bring your security settings back up till you find where the pages stop loading. If you're then still worried about security, download a copy of ZoneAlarm, or Sygate. They're (freeware) software firewalls which stop people from hacking back into you PC or allowing spyware to look at your system.

If all of this still fails, try accessing the site from another PC that is connecting to the internet using a different ISP (friend, family, work, etc). Your ISP might be blocking something for no good reason.

James S

- You don't choose the belief, the belief chooses you!

[A-M]

It works fine until I want to select a topic, then it takes minutes for a page to load...... http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_sad.gif" border=0>
I'm REALLY frustrated now, since I bought a new computer and installed IE instead of Netscape, to be able to continue visiting this website after it was upgraded !!!
What's next? Will I have to follow a computer course now so I will understand how to change my software-settings !!!

A-M

(not feeling very Zen)

[Joe]

Hi A-M,

I got onto ST last night and was having a bunch of exactly the same problems - it is definitely some screwy management of cookies in the forum code itself, which is an opensource portal kit that is (usually) very good. Adrian is aware of this I believe.

Try this :-
1. In IE (6.0 or otherwise, I have 6.0.2600) clear out any existing cookies: Tools/Internet Options/Settings button/View Files button, and delete any "Text File" that begins with www.spiritualtruths.org
2. On the same Internet Options dialog, go to Security tab and set security to Low, ignoring IE warnings, etc (NOTE: Make sure to revert this once done)
3. Make sure you're not overriding default cookie handling by going to the Privacy tab, then Advancedd... button and make sure "Override default cookie handling" is not checked, and definitely make sure it's not set to Block cookies if so. Uncheck the override if needed.
4. Hit OK on that dialog, then close IE and restart it (if you've been browsing to st.org) as this will drop the ASP Session state on the server.
5. Restart IE and go to main st.org homepage, then go to register - for some reason until you  register it doesn't set a cookie, and won't let you browse the topic.asp (and some other scripts) !!
6. You should be able to complete signup OK - if you can't get past policy.asp then recheck the security level again. Confirm your email address when the signup email is delivered, and click it's link to take you to the st.org confirmation page.
7. Once you confirm the email, you still have to go to www.spiritualtruths.org front page and log in (!!). After you're logged in, you should have no further dramas reading/posting - I verified this last night.
8. Reset your security back to Medium/High, whichever you prefer, and if you are normally blocking cookies (which I do) make sure to add st.org to your Allow list Tools/Internet Options/Privacy tab/Edit button. You should also now have a www.spiritualtruths.org cookie written.

It's a pretty cool site feature-wise, but as will all opensource the testing regime is not always exhaustive enough to catch all variations of config.

Ciao.

[James S]

Yeah, the page loading is pretty slow. There are a lot of small images on each page and the pages fully reload each time (no image caching) .

I think the variances in loading time have a lot to do with your particular ISP and their available bandwidth. At home, I just have a standard 56k modem connection, yet I can load pages from both these sites in seconds. At work I have 128k ISDN connection, but pages from both Astral Pulse & Spiritual Truths take up to a couple of minutes to load.

If you have no problems actually seeing what's on the pages, they're just slow to load, it won't be the fault of your computer.

James S

- You don't choose the belief, the belief chooses you!

[A-M]

Hi Joe,
Thanks for the elaborate explanation!  http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>
I just gave it a shot, but I have installed the dutch version of IE, so the button names do not correspond.
I tried to find something that looked like a 'view files' button (1.), but I couldn't. Then I moved on to 2. and I could not find a security setting under the security tab either. And then I gave up...... http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_sad.gif" border=0>
I'll save your explanation for a visiting friend with more computer experience.
So I hope to meet you all soon there!
And thanks again!

Anne-Marie

ps. All this is very bad for my ego, but I guess that's good, because it should dissolve anyway!  http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_wink.gif" border=0>