The firsts moments after death

[Chaki]

There's also the question I like asking...
If every consciousness experiencing this planet we call earth (humans, animals, bugs... everything) were to vanish from this reality.  Would the earth then vanish as well?

Like a dream, does everything disappear when there's no consciousness left to create or sustain? 

Obviously we can never know the answer to this, but it's interesting to think about regardless.  hehe

I think I answered this question when I wrote this:

http://www.dingtwist.com/reality-is-subjective/

Very interesting topic, subjective reality.

[interception]

If you're to assume this physical reality is what science and materialists deem it to be, then yes.  You're right.
However, that's still thinking that this physical reality = different from a non-physical reality.  That's my point though.

My reasoning is that if this physical reality is really nothing more than "just another non-physical reality" then no, nothing would persist in any state if there are no consciousnesses around to make it that way. 

Anyway, just an interesting thought. 

Nobody is by any means right or wrong.  I just thought I'd clarify a bit further what I was getting at.  lol

I am not assuming anything. I also understand your point, believe me. 

The idea I was going for here was this: Whatever the medium of this seemingly matter based reality, there could be a component to it that allows for some kind of external persistence. Persistence even in the absence of any kind of collective consciousness to directly experience it.

Again, I go back to my analogy of a computer program that doesn't disappear from existence when it is not running. It, the medium whatever it is, has an inherent existence outside of ourselves because we, you, me, everybody have decided to experience this reality together.
That very act means we have created something outside of ourselves. There always seems to be responsibility in any act of creation. If we all could just stop our consciousness from experiencing this reality and it then seized to exist at all, there would be zero responsibility...

[Xanth]

I am not assuming anything. I also understand your point, believe me. 

The idea I was going for here was this: Whatever the medium of this seemingly matter based reality, there could be a component to it that allows for some kind of external persistence. Persistence even in the absence of any kind of collective consciousness to directly experience it.

Again, I go back to my analogy of a computer program that doesn't disappear from existence when it is not running. It, the medium whatever it is, has an inherent existence outside of ourselves because we, you, me, everybody have decided to experience this reality together.

It could very well be. 

My experiences would tend to suggest otherwise, hence why I strongly oppose such concepts.

The problem with the computer program analogy is that regardless if the program is running or not, it's all just data anyway. 
Nothing objectively exists outside of the fundamental reality that everything is a form of or perspective of consciousness.

That very act means we have created something outside of ourselves. There always seems to be responsibility in any act of creation. If we all could just stop our consciousness from experiencing this reality and it then seized to exist at all, there would be zero responsibility...

If a reality ceases to exist because there are no more consciousnesses experiencing it... then that's just that.
I honestly don't understand what you're saying here.  If you could expand a bit more?

[interception]

If a reality ceases to exist because there are no more consciousnesses experiencing it... then that's just that.
I honestly don't understand what you're saying here.  If you could expand a bit more?

I do not think I can expand much sorry. It was a rather desperate attempt at a flimsy argument at best. 
I was going for an idea that creating certain things should carry some accountability. Universes for one thing.

It just saddens me, the idea that we could just forget all this, like a foggy dream that fades from memory.

My human attachments calls to me. 

[Lionheart]

 This video has some great theories and conclusions on what happens "next".

http://youtu.be/avyUsPgIuQ0

[Bedeekin]

It just saddens me, the idea that we could just forget all this, like a foggy dream that fades from memory.

But a dream that fades from memory isn't missed.  

But... why do you have the notion that WE create this reality or that reality ceases to exist without humans to sustain it?

Using the computer programme analogy the characters don't create the game... but when a character dies.. the USER just picks another avatar/character and plays again.

We as physical beings don't create the physical reality we live in.. We as physical beings are an interface existing within the an interface.

[ChopstickFox]

If a tree falls in the middle of the woods does it make a sound...?

[Xanth]

But a dream that fades from memory isn't missed.  

But... why do you have the notion that WE create this reality or that reality ceases to exist without humans to sustain it?

Using the computer programme analogy the characters don't create the game... but when a character dies.. the USER just picks another avatar/character and plays again.

We as physical beings don't create the physical reality we live in.. We as physical beings are an interface existing within the an interface.

It's not a "creation" like we create in the non-physical, even though it does exist in this reality (I'll explain in a sec)... we create the very reality we experience here in this physical reality, in that our choices of Love or Fear take us along the path of evolution or devolution of our consciousness (spiritual growth or lack there of). 
So we actually DO create like we do in the non-physical, it just works slightly different and not as direct as it does in the non-physical.  It's not a direct thought = creation... instead we must directly and physically act upon our thoughts to bring them to form. 

Bedeekin, you do this very thing in your career path.  You visualize that which you want to bring within this reality... then you craft it.  That is the very act of creation.  It's an act I wish I had much more control over in my own life... I've tried making things and they seem to never end up even close to how I visualized them.  LOL

The rest of it... as per what happens when there's no consciousnesses around to experience... who knows really.  I was mostly thinking outloud. 

[dreamingod]

This video has some great theories and conclusions on what happens "next".

http://youtu.be/avyUsPgIuQ0

Thanks Lionheart for sharing this insightful video:


^


PIM VAN LOMMEL, MD
Cardiologist/Author

In our prospective study of 344 patients who survived cardiac arrest we had to come
to the surprising conclusion that all the reported elements of a Near-Death Experience (NDE)
like an out-of-body perception, meeting with deceased relatives or a life review were
experienced during a transient functional loss of the cortex and of the brainstem,
with a flat line EEG.

During their cardiac arrest people can have veridical perceptions from a position outside
and above their lifeless body. NDE-ers have the feeling that they have apparently taken
off their body like an old coat and to their surprise they appear to have retained their own
identity with the possibility of perception, emotions, and a very clear consciousness.

This out-of-body experience (OBE) is scientifically important because doctors, nurses,
and relatives can verify the reported perceptions, and they can also corroborate the
precise moment the NDE with OBE occurred during the period of CPR.
This proves that an OBE cannot be a hallucination, because this means experiencing a
perception that has no basis in "reality", like in psychosis, neither it can be a delusion,
which is an incorrect assessment of a correct perception, nor an illusion, which means
a misleading image. Moreover, one needs a functioning brain for experiencing hallucinations,
delusions or illusions. Additionally, even people blind from birth have reported veridical
perceptions during NDE and OBE.








Based on several NDE-studies it seems inevitable to conclude that veridical perception
is possible independently of brain function. In my lecture I will give several examples of
veridical perceptions during NDE, and discuss the differences between seeing with the
eyes during waking consciousness (who is seeing? what is seeing?) and perceiving during
the period of a non-functioning brain ('apparent unconsciousness during clinical death').


~

[Lionheart]

 I enjoyed it. It was very insightful.  

I loved the part when he was talking about NDE's in a former seminar and some Doctor stood up to tell him it's ridiculous and that not one of his patients had ever said anything like this ever him. Then another man who did have a NDE stood up and said he was a patient of this doubting Doctor and said "You are the last one I would have told", lol.

He also stated in his video that 90% of the people that say they have seen something going on in the operating/cardiac room, were actually correct. Which means this is undeniable proof that something was occurring. The other 10% were right on something happening there in the room too ,just not the exact specific things.

[dreamingod]

I loved the part when he was talking about NDE's in a former seminar and some Doctor stood up to tell him it's ridiculous and that not one of his patients had ever said anything like this ever him. Then another man who did have a NDE stood up and said he was a patient of this doubting Doctor and said "You are the last one I would have told", lol.

funny    Skeptics like neurosurgeon Dr. Eben Alexander cannot
be convinced unless through direct experiences.

Neuroscientist Shares His Near Death Experience
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MFL6rmsH9L0

Dr. Eben Alexander Interview:

That's where I'm coming from because my experience showed me very clearly that incredibly powerful consciousness far beyond what I'm trapped in here in the earthly realm begins to emerge as you get rid of that filtering mechanism of the brain. It is really astonishing. And that is what we need to explain. Thousands or millions of near-death experiencers have talked about this.

http://www.skeptiko.com/154-neurosurgeon-dr-eben-alexander-near-death-experience/

[Bedeekin]

It's not a "creation" like we create in the non-physical, even though it does exist in this reality (I'll explain in a sec)... we create the very reality we experience here in this physical reality, in that our choices of Love or Fear take us along the path of evolution or devolution of our consciousness (spiritual growth or lack there of). 
So we actually DO create like we do in the non-physical, it just works slightly different and not as direct as it does in the non-physical.  It's not a direct thought = creation... instead we must directly and physically act upon our thoughts to bring them to form. 

Bedeekin, you do this very thing in your career path.  You visualize that which you want to bring within this reality... then you craft it.  That is the very act of creation.  It's an act I wish I had much more control over in my own life... I've tried making things and they seem to never end up even close to how I visualized them.  LOL

The rest of it... as per what happens when there's no consciousnesses around to experience... who knows really.  I was mostly thinking outloud. 

I hear ya!!