The tatoo man

[Tab]

For every eastern practitioner wannabe turned reborn christian I'd bet there were 20 deluded christians who have found their way into REAL religion and stuck it out.

What you're using as an argument for Jesus is simple psychology. I'm assuming all of these converts were raised christian or something similar. Christians are raised and taught in such a way that they are used to, even need their secure all saving all righteous god. Christianity is a religion for the weak who need a big brother figure to lean on. No wonder, then, that people with this instilled in their minds from the beginning try to delve into the ways of Eastern philosophy and fail miserably. They see nothing but the absence of a father figure that was beaten into their heads by the controlling Christian dogma. When there is no buddy jesus savior kicking devil butt and absolving you of sins - that you must work for your own self and work out your own personal demons, they can't step up. They simply cannot deal with the concept of responsibility and the lack of definite anthropomorphic figures.

Thus, they break down, fall into despair, kill themselves, etc. If this were a commonality of eastern religion, every easterner would be dead. They're not. Why? I'll give you a hint, it's not because they've never seen the saving light of Jesus. It's because they've never been predisposed to forced spiritual dependency.

Christianity is great for those materialistic men who are too busy to be spiritual, it absolves all responsibility from the participant save for attendance to services, it provides no path to seek personal truth, it just gives you your place and tells you to be there and it'll all be good. This is not the grace of god, this is the fallacy of laziness and ignorance.

Those men didn't collapse because Eastern religion is devoid of divine truth. They collapsed because they were looking outside themselves for some father figure to hand them truth, instead of looking for truth down the only real path, the one inside of them.

[Hephaestus]

quote:Originally posted by Narrow Path

I remember one time I was in Hunington Beach California on vacation.

My friend was getting a tatoo and I was along for the ride. I remember going in to the parlor and seeing that there were many, many books that dealt with philosophy and religons.

At this time in my life I was delving into the eastern religons looking for Truth. I had not found Christ yet.

Anyways I remember striking up a conversation with the tatoo guy and telling him that all religons if followed earnestly would result in Truth.

He told me differently.

He told me of a buddy of his that had been a Truth seeker for ten years. He had read all the books and tried all the practices. He had tatooed his whole body up in an attempt to distance himself from the world and the madness. At the end of it all he came to the conclusion that we are a creation of aliens and that there was no Hope.

He decided to kill himself.

He had a loaded shotgun or something to this affect and was ready to embrace death when he saw that a Bible was on the floor of his home. For some reason or another he picked it up. He did not tell me what he read first but all I remember was that he cried his heart out because Christ had FOUND HIM!

This man is another example of a Truth seeker finally finding peace in Jesus Christ. A man that tried it all and did it with intentions for Truth.

He was not disapointed.

The Lord had mercy on Him as He does on us all.

That story is a load of tosh, when I was at the end of primary school about 10 years ago priests came to our school with these little red Bibles (forget what they called them) and they told us of a story of how a man was ready to kill himself because he had given up all hope but just as he was in the act of commiting suicide he saw the little red bible and sat and read it and it made him cry. He did not kill himself as he had finally found Jesus.

You've used the same story just altered it slightly.

[sahlyn]

LMAO!

Running out of tactics are you Allanon?

I remember those little red bibles.[] I bet your tattooed friend does too.

[Anonymous]

Everyone's experiences are different.

[Narrow Path]

quote:That story is a load of tosh, when I was at the end of primary school about 10 years ago priests came to our school with these little red Bibles (forget what they called them) and they told us of a story of how a man was ready to kill himself because he had given up all hope but just as he was in the act of commiting suicide he saw the little red bible and sat and read it and it made him cry. He did not kill himself as he had finally found Jesus.

You've used the same story just altered it slightly.

THIS STORY IS NOT BULL excrement. I AM NOT SUPPOSED TO DO THIS BUT.....

I FRICKIN SWEAR THAT THIS STORY IS TRUE AND THAT I MET A GUY THAT TOLD ME OF THE POWER OF CHRIST AS EXPLAINED ABOVE. IN FACT I STILL REMEMBER THE TATOO MY FRIEND GOT. IT WAS A GREEK CROSS WITH A HEART IN THE MIDDLE AND A SWORD STABBING IT. WHY WOULD I BULL YOU GUYS?

DO YOU THINK I HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO? I AM REALLY TRYING TO BE A GOOD PERSON AND WAKE YOU GUYS UP TO THE PEACE THAT IS THERE WAITING FOR YOU.

It is an good story and just wanted to share. I am not lying. Seriously.

[beavis]

Narrow Path "he came to the conclusion that we are a creation of aliens and that there was no Hope.

He decided to kill himself.

He had a loaded shotgun or something to this affect and was ready to embrace death when he saw that a Bible was on the floor of his home. For some reason or another he picked it up. He did not tell me what he read first but all I remember was that he cried his heart out because Christ had FOUND HIM!"

Thats the problem with people today. They dont finish what they start. If you're going to kill yourself, dont read, do it.

[Tab]

Seriously a good story of how much our society and it's idolized gods will screw a person over when they're not being babied by their religion anymore.

[sahlyn]

Allanon, I never came to the conclusion that that story is false. I just felt like teasing you a bit[^]

But true or not, it doesn't make much of a point. That guy found a path right for him, and that's great... but so what?

To assume it's the right path for everyone is plain idiocy.

Aren't you getting bored with all of this yet?

[Anonymous]

Allanon- Have you taken a philosophy of religion course yet? I recommend doing so. I am in one right now and I'm learning a lot of stuff about religion in general. It's really fascinating.

[Narrow Path]

This story was to show people the beauty of the Born Again experience.

It happens very quickly and it implies a total lifestyle change.

It is the end result of an earnest search for Truth.

Ender,

I am going to take one next semester. Right now I am in Spinoza which is a 300 level phil course and Ethics which is 300 as well.

I dont like the courses as they propogate the moral relativism I have related on earlier here. Those philosophers make things too hard on themselves. They regard reason as being a higher faculty than faith.

You must be as little children to enter the kingdom of Heaven.

Take care Ender and study hard.

[kakkarot]

Allanon, perhaps you should chill a bit. your "evangelism" isn't being done the way God wants it to be done. i've only visited a few times in the past four months but i've read a lot of your posts and i just have to say:

YOU don't convert people, God does. all a christian is supposed to do is tell of the message of God, not convert people. there is a difference. (and please know to back off and let people have their own beliefs)

i'll even give you a story to illustrate my point (and yes it is true):

i have a friend in medicine hat (my home city) who used to be a wicca, except he was part of some evil cult (and he is the one who admits this, i'm not labelling) who would cast harmful spells upon people for whatever reason. he eventually got out of that, and started going whereever life lead him. he's been a lot of things, and he's done a lot of things too.

bad things happened to him at nearly every turn; he's had more friends die in his life than i've had friends in my life, many of them while he was with them.

he didn't believe in any religion, thought it was all a waste of time. he didn't really hope in anything beyond this world, didn't really think about it either. but still the crap continued to pile in his life. and, he said, the strange thing about it was that everytime something bad happened, there would be something there to remind him of christianity and of God, almost as though God were trying to reach out to him (don't stop reading now, the most important part is after the story). but he always turned away from it, growing more and more angry with the supposed God that was letting such things happen to him and yet was at the same time trying to get him to follow Him.

after too numerous bad things happening to him, one thing happened that is emblazened onto his mind forever: he was in a vehicle crash and there was a fire which melted the door to the vehicle, and melted his seatbelt together so that he couldn't get out. the fire was burning him alive, but at some point when he thought he was going to die he thought he saw someone open the door, reach into the vehicle and unbuckle him and then pull him out. (there was something else about the man saying something pertaining to why my friend believes that the person who pulled him out was jesus, but i don't remember what my friend told me about that part)

he woke up in the hospital with burns to the majority of his body, though eventually most of them healed so that you would never believe it. except for a few spots like this one spot on his wrist, where the man who pulled him out had grabbed him, where the burns were clearly there and also showed healed patches that related to a person's hand, as though someone actually had grabbed him and pulled him out (and it was a right handed print on his right wrist, so it was not his own).

anytime that someone asks him why he believes in God, he tells them his story.

however, he does NOT go around trying to force people to become christians! he tells people who want to hear about God, about God. but to those who don't want to hear it, he may make an attempt to begin a religious discussion but he does NOT say anything like "i believe in God because He saved my life, so you should believe too", nor does he continually badger them to believe anything.

do you understand, Allanon, why what you're doing isn't "winning" anyone over? God will get to each person in His own time. we are merely the vessels to deliver His message when He wants to deliver it. (hence the reason why there is so much BS among christians: they tend to forget about God and think to themselves "well, heck! i can make people believe, i don't need to wait for God to do it". the emphasis in christianity should not be "what can *i* do?" but "what does God want to do *with/using* me?")

i myself have a very good reason to believe that there is a God, but i don't go around telling it to people and using it to "convert" them (in fact, i've only ever told one person). in fact, i've helped a couple of people in completely non-religious matters and because of a) how i conducted myself and b) the situation itself, those people now believe in God and are making their own efforts to learn more. and not only is that true for myself, but i also know someone else who has done exactly that for the past about 20 years: helping people with mundane issues, and the "help-ee" comes away believing in God. as well, i've helped people to at least believe in the possibility of a God through conversation and debates (though i do not TRY to "win" them over, and i have not been successful with everyone, nor do i try to be successful with everyone). I do what i can, act as a christian should and help people when they need help, and God takes care of the rest.

as a christian myself i am very angry at how you are trying to indoctrinate people.

~kakkarot

"Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and His rightgeousness."

quote:Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they had not much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil, 6 but when the sun rose they were scorched; and since they had no root they withered away

[Kuro Majin]

Just repliyng to see if theres an avatar

[Narrow Path]

Kakkarot,

Nice post.

I am not trying to CONVERT anyone here. This is a debate forum and as such you will find those that have bolder methods than others when it comes to backing up there side of the story.

I admit that I have taken a forceful approach but that is because igniting the flames of passion against God is a Way to allow Him to work with you more.

If you are lukewarm and dont care it will take the event of nearly burning to death in a car to see God's love.

So I am just being strong willed here because the message I am spreading is the minority here and in order for it to survive here it has to be blunt.

[kakkarot]

still wrong. God ensures its survival: not us. don't go thinking that christianity needs a hero to champion its cause. God has everything in control. He doesn't need us, but He uses us for whatever reason.

and btw, this is the astral chat, not a debate forum. and besides, i'm not talking about just this topic, i'm talking about the numerous numerous posts you've made with the too-strong attitude. it is good to be passionate, but that must not take precedence over letting people choose their own paths. we can help provide them with information, but the decision has to be theirs: not by force, by manipulation, or just plain giving in to an annoyance (which you are being to these people).

discussing and debating is good, but that isn't what you've been doing.

~kakkarot

[LA FORET MAUVE]

thank you, Kakkarot !
And yes, Narrowpath is really trying to convert people.

[Narrow Path]

I remember one time I was in Hunington Beach California on vacation.

My friend was getting a tatoo and I was along for the ride. I remember going in to the parlor and seeing that there were many, many books that dealt with philosophy and religons.

At this time in my life I was delving into the eastern religons looking for Truth. I had not found Christ yet.

Anyways I remember striking up a conversation with the tatoo guy and telling him that all religons if followed earnestly would result in Truth.

He told me differently.

He told me of a buddy of his that had been a Truth seeker for ten years. He had read all the books and tried all the practices. He had tatooed his whole body up in an attempt to distance himself from the world and the madness. At the end of it all he came to the conclusion that we are a creation of aliens and that there was no Hope.

He decided to kill himself.

He had a loaded shotgun or something to this affect and was ready to embrace death when he saw that a Bible was on the floor of his home. For some reason or another he picked it up. He did not tell me what he read first but all I remember was that he cried his heart out because Christ had FOUND HIM!

This man is another example of a Truth seeker finally finding peace in Jesus Christ. A man that tried it all and did it with intentions for Truth.

He was not disapointed.

The Lord had mercy on Him as He does on us all.