Vegetarianism and spiritual evolution

[urshebear]

The past 6 months I have been thinking about vegetarianism and ascention. I believe vegetarianism is vital for spiritual evolution and I think whether we want to or not mankind will eventually become vegetarians anyway.
As we have evolved mankind has already grown enough love and compassion to not want to eat dog, cat, horse etc regardless of whether the animals have been domesticated or not.
Eventually I believe that love and compassion will continue to evolve and people will begin to see that it is just as wrong to kill sheep, cows and chicken etc for food.
I am so saddened at the treatment of these animals. The way humans farm then is inhumane and wrong! Its torture.
I should also probably mention that I am NOT vegetarian. I am very anemic and have been told by doctors that I have the iron levels of a vegetarian anyway, that is without the iron that I now take everyday.
I just wanted to talk about this here to see if any of you guys have any light to shed on this topic.

[Stillwater]

I feel like meat consumption will slowly decline for economic reasons mainly. It is a great luxury to produce meat products; the energy required is often hundreds of times that which it takes to produces plant-based foods. Many poverty-stricken or resource-limited countries are nearly vegetarian already by necessity.

I support vegetarianism for ethical reasons, but I feel like economics will have a say before anything else. I don't see human society as becoming more ethically-oriented at this time; it is true that violence is declining on a world-scale, but I think this has more to do with organiztion and industrialization than concscious choices to be kinder to other people and beings. Perhaps we will become better as a society first because it makes sense in terms of the numbers and dollars, but then consider things in an ethical light later.

[shineling]

I went vegetarian for 6 months and ended up sick. I couldn't do it. I felt really strange like up in the air for most of the time. I thought this was some kind of clean feeling but I started getting light headed and ended up anemic.

So... no I don't think we humans are supposed to be vegetarians. The reason our brains evolved into such intelligence (if you can call it that) is because of large amounts of protein. We hunted and killed most of it.

Why do we have canine teeth if not for this reason? To tear flesh.

I think God created us like we're supposed to be. Mother Nature is a rutheless killer. I kind of laugh when people speak of being close to Nature and feelng God and the Spirit. This is cool and I'm one myself but you have to take the good with the bad. You can't love God in slices.

So try to trancend it. We are meat eaters by nature. The Earth exists as a food chain and nothing is created or destroyed. The law of conservation.

Trust me, it's ok to eat meat. God is ok with it. Our description of God is just too small to emcompass the reality.


At least that's my spin on it.  

[urshebear]

I don't necessarily think we are "meant" to be vegetarians but I think we will evolve to be vegetarian. we are how we are because we have always adapted to our surroundings and that is essentially what evolution is and that would explain our canine teeth.
Animals will probably continue to eat meat for longer than us simply because they are not as evolved.

Stillwater you make a good point. we could raise our own animals for food too as many people do. But I just think spiritual evolution means becoming more loving and compassionate towards all living thing.

Shineling did you take any supplements while you went vegetarian?
I am not christian but I did stumble across this

life of the flesh is in the blood therefore I said to the children of Israel, No-one among you shall eat blood, nor shall any stranger who dwells among you eat blood." (Leviticus 17:11,12). 

I don't know, what do you think? debate is most welcome, one of the reasons I like these forums so much is because of the varied opinions.

[shineling]

Yeah, I was drinking protein shakes (which you're not supposed to cuz they are made of milk parts) and cramming with beans and rice and nuts. Still got sick. 

What would your take be on eating meat that was grown? I know they are talking about this. They can grow ears from a single cell for example and hearts now. If it was safe, looked, and tasted like real meat I  might give it a try. Just so I wouldnt have to kill a living being.

Yeah, I completely see your point of view. But I don't think we're punished for being meat eaters. A lot of Eastern religions think you get bad karma for eating meat. I used to believe it. But then I read that the Dalai Lama himself isn't a vegetarian. He went anemic too. I can find the article... it's around here somewhere.

Alright, have a good night. 

[Astir]

It seems like karma may have been originally introduced or possible redefined by early Christianity...back when the Christians were the trailblazing hippies.  Only because the consequence of sin was institutionalized by them...and at the time they didn't want anyone on earth to live unburdened by this principle.  Kind of like how they adopted pagan holidays to slowly convert pagans. 

I think everyone who can own them should own chickens...even though they are basically evil dinosaur birds.  Eggs fill in lengthy gaps in meat consumption for me.

I usually eat meat once or twice a week.  Mostly fish. I take tons of vitamins and eat tons of other types of protein anyway,  but I still get symptoms of moderate malnutrition.  Sounds crazy, when you live in western society being malnourished and protein deficient, but my gut situation is complicated.  I have extensive intestinal scarring/damage from celiac disease, crohns, and for added fun, a touch of bowel endometriosis.  Needless to say I have issues, namely malabsorption.  While I don't eat much meat I've become an opportunistic eater and I will now eat anything as long as it is free of the dreaded gluten molecule.

[Volgerle]

Some myths say that 'in golden ages' long gone we were once light beings living of energy and light, so we were not necessarily meat eaters. Some that do sungazing / light fasting with success seem to prove it.

Maybe we evolved canine teeth when we were becoming meat eaters in the course of "evolution" (however it takes place...), so it's the other way round. We have also teeth to eat plants, fruit, etc. If we consider plants as conscious beings I still believe that plants are 'there fore eating' somehow, so they are 'okay with it'.

I also do not eat meat for several reasons (ethical, spiritual/vibrational, health), haven't managed to become a vegan so far. Anyway, so far never had any health problems. The opposite is true, i feel healthier. Most vegetarians are healthy if you ask me.

Of course, you can do anything wrong with nutrition all he time, no matter if meat eater and vegetarian. Many specialists argue about lowered B12 levels, causing pernicious anemia. But with a balanced dietary nutrition you can consume enough of it from vegetarian food, too, and the body's liver is a good store for it for many years. Otherwise, one can of course take supplements to be on the safe side.

As I listened to a lot of lectures about the intestinal flora's role within the digestive system lately, I can attest to the harmfulness of overconsumption of meat. Too much meat per day might harm the intestinal resident flora (turning a normally saccharolytic into a proteolytic milieu) which forms a natural barrier and a kind of independent immune system for us humans (we couldn't live without it!). This then leads to quite a lot of related diseases, not just taking effect in the intestines, but literally everywhere in the body. It also weakens the immune system and causes allergies. Also, meat - especially pork - is more and more suspected to be carcinogenic.

Therefore, I would advise against porc and recommend fish/chicken instead for the meat eaters. Also, many nutrition therapists therefore recommend 2-3 meaty meals per week is enough (preferably light, so take chicken or fish instead of pork or cattle).

[eyeofodin]

I am a pescetarian (vegetarian who eats fish) but I was vegan for 7 years and I felt the best I had in all my life.  A couple of years ago I started to think about fish for no apparent reason, and as time passed the urge increased to the point of always seeing a steamy piece of salmon in my head whenever I was hungry.  Around this time my girlfriend moved in with me who eats meat and it caused a lot of tension at first trying to figure out an approach to meals.  I introduced dairy back into my diet which helped ease the tension, though dairy still makes me feel awful physically, and slow mentally.  So anyway, on a hot Saturday night in Berkeley, California, we came back from the store with a piece of salmon and threw it on the grill.  The first bite was definitely an odd sensation and it turned my stomach for a bit, but I managed to eat the rest of my serving and by the end I highly enjoyed the special treat.

I think about what is the natural diet for humans, and although I am not an Anthropologist or a Dietitian, I have my own philosophies.  I always liked the idea of what would happen if you put a chicken and a grape in front of a baby/child.  Which one would they know to eat?  I always think the child would play with the chicken and eat the grape.  I tend to think that we are meant to eat the food that we can easily gather and catch with our hands or simple tools: vegetables, fruits, nuts and freshwater fish.   I don't think it would be easy to, if at all possible, to kill a cow with our bare hands, let alone if there is a bull in the group. 

[Rudolph]

Why do we have canine teeth if not for this reason? To tear flesh.

Good point. The Human body is obviously a meat-eater by design. Archeology shows that the Hunter-Gatherer diet/lifestyle produced a healthier bunch of folks. The bones of humans after the agrarian society developed show a significant drop in health, overall.

I tried the vegetarian way for a while. But I was never fanatic about it and I ate meat when I was with family and that was what was being served. I did notice a cleaner feel in general and it did seem to improve meditation results, dream recall, etc.
I think for people over 25yrs old and physical growth is done, the meat intake can be reduced significantly. I have witnessed first hand the HUGE improvement in health for people over 65 yrs old by switching to a vegan diet.

It was a good experiment and I learned something worthwhile from it.

Common sense is a good rule to live by. Eat meat in small portions and eat plenty of fruits and veggies too. Women with iron poor blood really ought to consider liver & onions once a week.

[Stookie_]

Eating balanced is my rule.

I think another thing is that everyone is different and it's a mistake to assume everybody needs to have the exact same diet. A vegetarian diet might be good for some and less than ideal for others. Exercise plays a huge role with how the body processes food into energy as well.

I work out a decent amount, both cardio and weights, so I eat more protein in my diet than I would if I weren't working out like I did. But my body needs it to rebuild quicker. If I didn't work out so much I would probably eat more vegetarian meals, especially breakfast, but that diet would have me feeling drained and tired all the time doing it now.

I find it most important to stay away from empty-calorie food, preservatives, & refined sugar/junk food. Poisons basically. Shop the perimeter of the grocery store and do your best to stay out of the aisles.

[CFTraveler]

Eating balanced is my rule.

I think another thing is that everyone is different and it's a mistake to assume everybody needs to have the exact same diet. A vegetarian diet might be good for some and less than ideal for others. Exercise plays a huge role with how the body processes food into energy as well.

I work out a decent amount, both cardio and weights, so I eat more protein in my diet than I would if I weren't working out like I did. But my body needs it to rebuild quicker. If I didn't work out so much I would probably eat more vegetarian meals, especially breakfast, but that diet would have me feeling drained and tired all the time doing it now.

I find it most important to stay away from empty-calorie food, preservatives, & refined sugar/junk food. Poisons basically. Shop the perimeter of the grocery store and do your best to stay out of the aisles.

I'm with Stookie on this. 
We're omnivores- our bodies doesn't make vitamin C so we need to eat fruits and vegs, and we also need a good amount of acid food in our stomachs to kill harmful parasites and certain fungi, which means we also need meat- so each person is different, needs different things, but nobody needs refined junk.

[4everaspirit]

Go for it I have been vegan for two years already. I did it for the animals out of concern for how they are treated in factory farms, and now, I wouldn't eat any animal products at all even if the animals were raised well, because I simply don't need to kill an animal or commodify them to live.

I have been really happy with my diet and the fact that I haven't lost, or gained any weight, for that matter, eating what I do. ^_^ I try to be a role model for the way of life. You just need to be aware of what you are eating instead of animal products so that you can get the nutrients you need. You can get everything you need from a vegan or veggie diet. <3

Here is a very good vegan (can be used for vegetarians too) health website. (it's very informative if you want all the nitty gritty stuff.)
http://www.veganhealth.org/

Some other great non profit organizations you can read and learn information from are

http://www.veganoutreach.org/
http://chooseveg.com/  (lots of good health info here! Even a food pyramid!)

As for your iron issue, it is said that plant based iron is less easily absorbed than iron from animal sources, but you can make up for it. Food like tofu/ beans, lentils, seeds (sunflower I like a lot) are high in protein and iron. If you want to be extra cautious, you can go for a vegan iron supplement They make a wide variety I found one from "VegLife" that gives you 120% your daily value in a small tablet. I take it occasionally just to be safe.

I would actually recommend slowly transitioning animal products out of your diet (or slowly taking away meat if you want to be simply vegetarian) over a period of time, so as to make it easier on your system. I know I went vegan overnight and my system wasn't happy. It eventually cleared up but I think slowly transitioning would have been a lot better for my system.

Last minute thing, to those who say God is with their diet, I would highly doubt it. Eating animals, when we don't have too doesn't seem like an ideal, in fact, the Christian Vegetarian Association quotes vegetarianism as being the ideal diet. "In Eden, all creatures lived peacefully, and God told both humans and animals to consume only plant foods (Gen. 1:29–31). Several prophecies, such as Isaiah 11:6–9, foresee a return to this vegetarian world, where the wolf, lamb, lion, cow, bear, snake, and little child all coexist peacefully. Christian vegetarians, while acknowledging human sinfulness, believe we should strive toward the harmonious world Isaiah envisioned—to try to live in accordance with the prayer that Jesus taught us, "Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done, On earth as it is in heaven" (Matt. 6:10)."

Just in case anyone here is christian

http://www.all-creatures.org/cva/default.htm