A question for the Christians (and other religions)

[Sagar]

Have any of you Christians had OBEs that lead you to believe Christianity based on personal experience?
I can imagine the Astral planes/Spirit World being seen as heaven.
Have you experienced something that would lead you to believe in hell?
Have you witnessed someone dieing and receiving judgment?
Purgatory?
I can see how higher beings could be seen as a form of God.
What about the devil?
Jesus?
People being born with sin?  Or sin even existing?
Anything to make you believe Christianity over other religions

In addition, to any of other religions, have you experienced anything in the Astral Planes/Spirit World/Heaven that would make you believe in your religion over others.

It seems to me that personal beliefs help create what is experienced in the Astral/Spirit World/Heaven.
So I wonder if your personal beliefs have made your subjectively create the Christian beliefs once you're out there, or to be fair, if my personal beliefs have made me subjectively perceive what's objective in a non Christian way. 

Religion's a touchy subject.  I don't think there is a way to say if religions exist or not - I'm just curious to what you guys are experiencing.  Can't stress that enough. 

[Loosh]

Have you read any of the near death experiences ? Www.nderf.org. If you google nderf, exceptional, it will take you to the most amazing ones. A common theme is absolutely no judgment. You judge yourself in your life review, and feel any pain you caused someone, therefore you learn. Many people come back knowing that all religions are just different roads to the same place.
In William Buhlmans book he talks about his mother being locked into a belief system, after death, hers was the bible and Jesus. Strong belief systems are where you might find yourself when you die, however the near death people appear to get a glimpse of what is really going on here.
I have read hundreds of nde's and never once heard about any devil.

[Sagar]

Very interesting, and I will take a look tomorrow morning, Thank You Loosh

[Bluefirephoenix]

okay yes I'm a Christian. Actually before I started to gain control over this ability I was pagan. I changed my path back to Christian when I started working with my teacher. I grew up Christian but became disillusioned with the church and left about 20 years ago.
    I have been told that hell is only existant in the minds of the people who put themselves through it. The Heavenly Father has explicitly told me several times that he does not hurt his children and that we are here to learn. I would say Earth is a purgatory experience. The majority of Christians do not believe in reincarnation however, I have heard and believe there is strong indications to the contrary. If Paul's explation of judgement is taken on a spiritual level instead of physical it would be accurate this is the only overt statement against that belief of reincarnation. All eventually will find their way to God, one way or another. Heaven is not a place, spirits do not need places but is a description of a state of harmony between us and the Father.
    I have and daily converse with God. I am clairaudient. The gifts that enable us to interact in spirit  including astral projection and mediumistic gifts are for our benefit and so it eases our burdan here, as we're learning. We can go back. God is not like a distant judemental being. Instead is very loving and interested in our lives. According to him we are as far as our spirits are concerned his children. This corralates only partially with modern theology.   I have never interacted with a being that might be considered the devil. There is a lot of modern mythology regarding this entity and even in scripture the indications of the being as a parable figure only is fairly strong. I am not a literalist when it comes to scriptural interpretation.
    Sin We have free choice. We have a physical nature that inclines us to be selfish and unloving and a spirit that originates with the Heavenly Father. I believe we all will find our way back to him, some it may take longer than others. The consequences of what we do are of our own making. The only way to learn to overcome this and understand what love and grace really are,  is through physical incarnation. It is a challenging experience.
     The whole picture is much bigger than we imagine or that we read from the scripture. Scripture is inspirational. It's channeled by people who love the Father and who were trying to report things as accurately as they could. But they were reporting in the context of previous beliefs and culture. These things influcence what is heard during a channeling. This has to be taken into consideration.The picture I have seen is similar and I would say the book is valid, but the big picture is a bit different. It only gives a snapshot view and that with cultural beliefs about the personality of God which he has slowly corrected over time  in the context of the bible's development.
     The God of Christianity who we call Father is absolutely the most wonderful being I've ever met. One encounter with him and I did not want to go back. The first time I had to, I cried for a month about it. But then I learned how to get back and visit I learned how he interacts and how we are connected to him. It's that relationship that makes me believe.
      I believe Christ's work was for everyone .. it wasn't for starting a religion, but to help people of all religions.    I saw that even before I was able to interact with God in this way. ( this happened this past May)  The things that stand out to me are how we are so very interconnected to each other. All life is. The loving and caring nature of the Father... someone who looks foward to spending time with his children, who sees our beauty even if we cannot,  and who does not want us to suffer, but abides by his word that we have free will here. He is someone who actually incarnated with us here to help us through a difficult journey. He's crazy in love with us his children and wants that to be reciprocated but only if it's done freely.
I hope I addressed everything adequately there.

[Xanth]

Whatever you believe FIRMLY in your heart is what you will experience. 

Projection leads some people to firm up their beliefs... while it causes others to question their faith.

It's as individual as choosing the method for projecting in the first place. 

[Sagar]

BFP - Yes you adequately answered my question thank you for the reply    I never thought of that perspective - that Christ was working to help all religions, instead of create one. 
Here's my question thought.  You said you believe that " We have a physical nature that inclines us to be selfish and unloving.." so what would you say to people searching for the "right one" and marry them/settle down?  It seems to me like a subconscious inclination to love and be loved from the very beginning.

Xanth - Right, that's why I said "I wonder if your personal beliefs have made you subjectively create the Christian beliefs once you're out there, or to be fair, if my personal beliefs have made me subjectively perceive what's objective in a non Christian way" 
I was only curious to what people with religious faith were experiencing out of curiosity.

[Bluefirephoenix]

We try to substitute a sexual relationship with each other for what is an expression of love with the Father. This is spiritual unity and harmony. The human relationships are important because of the connection we all have with each other. This relationship with each other cannot take the place of our relationship with the Heavenly Father. The expression of affection there is far deeper and more satisfying on different levels.  If you try to replace that with a human relationship it's like putting a square peg in a round hole. ... basically it sucks by comparison. A human relationship by people who have that connection can blossom because there is no dependence on the physical aspect for the need for affection. ... It's not to say we don't need physical touch while we're living here. The physical relationship, the romantic relationship are for the physical life. What's beyond that is very different and while there are comparisons, in my opinion they're inadequate. You do see people going to astral for an extension of the physical relationships. I think that is mostly a fantasy being played out. It can be a deterent to spiritual progress if it is believed that it is the end all of relationships in the astral.

Once you've encountered the Heavenly Father and experienced that you won't go back. I can't imagine anyone would be able to and find any kind of satisfaction. It's something you have to experience for yourself. This expression is difficult to describe. Language isn't really adequate. If youve been there you know what I mean and if you haven't well.. lets say its worth putting everything you have into searching for that.

[soarin12]

Have any of you Christians had OBEs that lead you to believe Christianity based on personal experience?
I can imagine the Astral planes/Spirit World being seen as heaven.
Have you experienced something that would lead you to believe in hell?
Have you witnessed someone dieing and receiving judgment?
Purgatory?
I can see how higher beings could be seen as a form of God.
What about the devil?
Jesus?
People being born with sin?  Or sin even existing?
Anything to make you believe Christianity over other religions

In addition, to any of other religions, have you experienced anything in the Astral Planes/Spirit World/Heaven that would make you believe in your religion over others.

It seems to me that personal beliefs help create what is experienced in the Astral/Spirit World/Heaven.
So I wonder if your personal beliefs have made your subjectively create the Christian beliefs once you're out there, or to be fair, if my personal beliefs have made me subjectively perceive what's objective in a non Christian way. 

Religion's a touchy subject.  I don't think there is a way to say if religions exist or not - I'm just curious to what you guys are experiencing.  Can't stress that enough. 

My experiences have substantiated my Christian faith, and then some.  I guess I was lucky in that the churches I went to taught that God does not judge us --it is us who separate ourselves from God.  They had (IMO) a correct view of what is meant by the word "judgement" in the bible.  In one of my experiences I did have a life review of sorts and I did 'judge myself' if you want to call it that.  Basically, when I met God who overwhelmed me with his unconditional love for me, I felt ashamed at some of the cruel things I had done in my life.  You can't help but momentarily feel --My God, what was I thinking?! --when you are in the presence of someone who loves you so much-no matter what you've done.  Then as quickly as the shame hit me, it was over and I just basked in the love.  I want to stress that the shame I felt was not a negative thing.  It hurt, yes, but in a beautiful way, leading me to make the necessary changes in my life.  Often people get a negative view of the words shame, guilt or sin, but in my view, these are just labels, and perfectly good ones.  Sin is simply- intentionally harming someone else or yourself.  It has consequences. It is 'self-punishing' not God-punishing.

To me, the most beautiful thing about Christianity is our relationship with God -a very personal one, which is seen in scripture when Jesus prays to his 'Father.'  My experiences have shown me that this relationship is real and true.  Every time I've experienced God, the overwhelming love for me is present, but there is a different message each time.  Once he showed me about forgiveness.  Once he just came to hold me and love me when I was heartbroken.  Several things that were spoken to me are too personal to share, but all were amazing experiences and as BFP said, you don't want to come back when it's over.

People being born with sin - just a way to describe our nature.  In the physical, our connection to one another and God is masked -we can't readily feel the connection that we truly have, leading us to not be able to empathize very well.  So...we hurt each other, suffer for it, and learn. (Hopefully!)

I have experienced a hell realm.  Again, nothing that God 'throws you into'  -just like attracts like.  People have free choice about what they let into their hearts and life.  If you end up in one due to fear/anger etc, but you're generally a person who has let love into their life, you won't be there very long!

Like BFP said, I believe wholeheartedly that Jesus did not come to establish a 'religion' or divide religions -just to teach truth.  I understood it to be that way when I first read the bible before any person or pastor (mistakenly, IMO) told me otherwise.

Devil?  No 'one' devil.  Just not-nice spirits. 

[Sagar]

Thanks Soarin, also a different perspective than what I've heard.  "You punishing you"  through the great shame you feel.  Not "God punishing you." 
What was the hell realm like?  Was it like the void?

[soarin12]

Thanks Soarin, also a different perspective than what I've heard.  "You punishing you"  through the great shame you feel.  Not "God punishing you." 
What was the hell realm like?  Was it like the void?

I don't want to mislead with the shame thing.  The harmful things I had done in my life certainly caused a lot of suffering for myself and others after I had done them (self-punishing) but when I was with God in my experience, the shame or sorrow I felt didn't feel like punishment (as in punitive) -just a powerful motivation to change my life.

Here's a link to the hell experience.

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_projection_experiences/different_kind_of_neg-t44275.0.html;msg345110#msg345110

[Bluefirephoenix]

soarin What you said clarifies some of the things Father and others told me.  Ive never really experienced a hell realm. I was told by him that he did not send people to hell  but something existed within to cause suffering if they do not accept the grace offered. His attitude was like I will figure out a way to convince them to leave

[soarin12]

soarin What you said clarifies some of the things Father and others told me.  Ive never really experienced a hell realm. I was told by him that he did not send people to hell  but something existed within to cause suffering if they do not accept the grace offered. His attitude was like I will figure out a way to convince them to leave

Very interesting!  Thanks for sharing.  I love how we're putting together the puzzle pieces.

[Kzaal]

I'm a Taoist and to me Hell is only desires that push you to do things you wouldn't and then you have to endure the pain and remorse of your acting.
The only thing I believe is in reincarnation and how taoists sees immortals.
Hell is just reincarnating and knowing that you did, and knowing that you didn't want to.
To me as long as people desire something they will be in the cycle of reincarnation.
The more you reincarnate, the more you know that reincarnation is real.
The more you know about reincarnation the less you want to be there.
The less you want to be there, the more you want to find a way out lol.

[Aaron330]

As a former evangelical Christian I've found this conversation very encouraging and reassuring. Thanks for sharing guys!

[Bluefirephoenix]

Aaron I also came from a fundimentalist background. The interpretations of scripture when addressing the subject of astral projection and mediumship are highly cultural in nature. Remember in St. John  law of love.... Love God and Love each other... everything else is interpretation.

[soarin12]

Love God and Love each other... everything else is interpretation.

That says it all...

[Newoldsoul]

I was raised as a southern baptist the majority of my life. There was a two or three year period when we went to an assembly of God church and that was where I got 'saved' and baptized. At the assembly of God church people would shout an run and speak in tongues etc but i clearly remember when everyone surrounded me praying and shouting everything went completely silent and i had a vision of my great granfather to my left and he spoke to me and said he loved me and was very proud of me but i shouldn't consider church as the place for salvation that salvation lied within me. It was a very profound and confusing time from that moment on. For me over the years since I've came to the conclusion that religion in general is of man so it is imperfect, discriminating, and can be used for negative purposes in so many ways. I'll say each religion had it's special people, Jesus obviously being the one I am most familiar, and they were in touch and in tune with God. Being interpreted by people who have not had that true connection with God in the slightest are the people who view it as the is all end all. Without a doubt through meditating, projection, and a random sequence of events and experiences over the years my belief has been completely solidified in "heaven". As far as hell, i've never experienced a hell as in lake of fire, satan, etc but I have had dreams, visions, and auditory disruptions by some severely negative entity. Dare i say demon...after a lot of consideration and searching for answers i've found that what IT was was a reflection of one aspect of me and it showed me how I needed to change, where my life was headed and what it would be like if I did not correct that aspect of my life. So for me, hell is self created and self sustained while heaven is the true acceptance of grace, love, and peace without bounds but in order to experience that everything negative must be faced, dealt with, and laid aside. I no longer classify myself to one religion anymore but I do pray daily to God and each time I try to project or meditate my focus is set on experiencing God in any way shape or form.

[Bluefirephoenix]

Newoldsoul read the thread on the extacy of st. Theresa. It's very relavent to this conversation and has more interesting details.

[Newoldsoul]

Can you post a link to that thread? I've never read it but i'm very intrigued by the comment

[Raymond]

Sagar, my answer to your questions are - Not yet

[Bluefirephoenix]

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_chat/ecstasy_of_saint_teresa_or_how_i_came_to_experience_primal_union_with_creation-t45140.0.html

[Newoldsoul]

Thanks bluefire! What a wonderful experience to read about!!