Recently after some searching and thinking i made up some conclusions:
every spirit chose to reincarnate to learn new stuff we all know that.
In the none physical world there is an infinite numbers of realities and dimensions.
every spirit can make - create what ever it want's
what i thought for some times that the physical universe is some sort of school for education new young god's which it's us as spirits
after learning so many things in so many life times we might reach some sort of level or rank that the Buddhists call it "Enlightenment"
which a point i believe the spirit is ready to start it's own universe and even create other new spirits of his own to raise them and teach them the way our god thought us
there are many common theories these days tells us about spirits before living a life in the physical world they make a lot planning and discussions with the who so called elders
the existence of the elders prove that the spirits are different in their ages just like us in the physical
some of us are old spirits and some others are new and young.
it could also prove that God isn't stopping giving birth to new baby spirits all the time
i begone to imagine that reaching the Enlightenment for a spirit is a level of growing where the spirit can become an adult God and even becoming able to create life and new spirits in it's own new universe
because at that point a spirit learned so far enough to take the responsibilities of taking care it's new children and it's own universe. Just like a man becoming ready to take care his own family and house
infinite numbers of universes creates even more infinite numbers of universes and it's been going on like that since ever!.
which it's crazy i know. but if someone has other opinion about the cosmos let me know :)
None of us really understand how everything started from the beginning. or even if it had a beginning.
it's just my conclusions
That would be the goal.
Enlightenment doesn't mean that you're god tho, it just means you understood what life is really about.
If you are a polytheist then yeah, I mean you can eventually be a god or call yourself some kind of god.
I mean I prefer the word Celestial Deity, you are a god in the universe serving the probably Ultimate god that created everything.
Who knows... I don't for sure I mean I wish but I don't think anyone can understand that as a human being.
This is a very delicate subject, I would say that to me this would reflect more the teachings from the Tao.
I particularly like The Zhong Lü Chuan Dao Ji, which describe what would be the stages through immortality here let me quote:
QuoteThe Zhong Lü Chuan Dao Ji lists five classes of immortals:
Guǐxiān (鬼仙—"Ghost Immortal"): A person who cultivates too much yin energy. These immortals are likened to Vampires because they drain the life essence of the living, much like the fox spirit. Ghost immortals do not leave the realm of ghosts.
Rénxiān (人仙—Human Immortal"): Humans have an equal balance of yin and yang energies, so they have the potential of becoming either a ghost or immortal. Although they continue to hunger and thirst and require clothing and shelter like a normal human, these immortals do not suffer from aging or sickness. Human immortals do not leave the realm of humans. There are many sub-classes of human immortals, as discussed above under Shījiě xiān.
Dìxiān (地仙—"Earth Immortal"): When the yin is transformed into the pure yang, a true immortal body will emerge that does not need food, drink, clothing or shelter and is not affected by hot or cold temperatures. Earth immortals do not leave the realm of earth. These immortals are forced to stay on earth until they shed their human form.
Shénxiān (神仙—"Spirit Immortal"): The immortal body of the earthbound class will eventually change into vapor through further practice. They have supernatural powers and can take on the shape of any object. These immortals must remain on earth acquiring merit by teaching mankind about the Tao. Spirit immortals do not leave the realm of spirits. Once enough merit is accumulated, they are called to heaven by a celestial decree.
Tiānxiān (天仙—"Celestial Immortal"): Spirit immortals who are summoned to heaven are given the minor office of water realm judge. Over time, they are promoted to oversee the earth realm and finally become administrators of the celestial realm. These immortals have the power to travel back and forth between the earthly and celestial realms.
-wiki Xian (Taoism)
To me this would be a plausible answer but again, it all depends on your spirit, I mean, there's no answer to what really is after you achieved all of that.
I think you definitely need to be enlightened to get to that stage but then it may happen to new spirits who evolve faster.
To me tho, you would really need to teach people about enlightenment and spread awareness to become a higher being.
Becoming a Celestial Immortal requires an entire devotion, and a full understanding and awareness of what the universe is.
Would probably take millenniums earth years to achieve such a thing.
Unless you already have accumulated all this teaching on earth and you are enlightened, and reincarnate enlightened just to keep teaching people then I guess you need to do it from the beginning or from where you left off in your past life.
Theses are just speculations tho... even an enlightened beings can't fully understand the concept behind the universe. Maybe I'm wrong tho.
But that enlightened being need to have been through the highest planes...
And I don't know if at that point that person can go on earth. I think there's probably restrictions as to what you can do at that stage. Maybe send some signs or something.
I don't know... We'll see...
To add to the immensity, all the physical universes are contained in one shadow of a four dimensional one.
That takes some getting your head around.
Youtube flatland for a simplified introduction to the multidimensional aspect on this. We all understand three dimensions naturally. Any 3D shape is a shadow in 4D.
Mind blowing...
Quote from: Szaxx on November 17, 2014, 05:47:00
To add to the immensity, all the physical universes are contained in one shadow of a four dimensional one.
That takes some getting your head around.
Youtube flatland for a simplified introduction to the multidimensional aspect on this. We all understand three dimensions naturally. Any 3D shape is a shadow in 4D.
Mind blowing...
mind...not...computing...
Quote from: Kzaal on November 17, 2014, 03:31:05
That would be the goal.
Enlightenment doesn't mean that you're god tho, it just means you understood what life is really about.
If you are a polytheist then yeah, I mean you can eventually be a god or call yourself some kind of god.
I mean I prefer the word Celestial Deity, you are a god in the universe serving the probably Ultimate god that created everything.
Who knows... I don't for sure I mean I wish but I don't think anyone can understand that as a human being.
This is a very delicate subject, I would say that to me this would reflect more the teachings from the Tao.
I particularly like The Zhong Lü Chuan Dao Ji, which describe what would be the stages through immortality here let me quote:
-wiki Xian (Taoism)
To me this would be a plausible answer but again, it all depends on your spirit, I mean, there's no answer to what really is after you achieved all of that.
I think you definitely need to be enlightened to get to that stage but then it may happen to new spirits who evolve faster.
To me tho, you would really need to teach people about enlightenment and spread awareness to become a higher being.
Becoming a Celestial Immortal requires an entire devotion, and a full understanding and awareness of what the universe is.
Would probably take millenniums earth years to achieve such a thing.
Unless you already have accumulated all this teaching on earth and you are enlightened, and reincarnate enlightened just to keep teaching people then I guess you need to do it from the beginning or from where you left off in your past life.
Theses are just speculations tho... even an enlightened beings can't fully understand the concept behind the universe. Maybe I'm wrong tho.
But that enlightened being need to have been through the highest planes...
And I don't know if at that point that person can go on earth. I think there's probably restrictions as to what you can do at that stage. Maybe send some signs or something.
I don't know... We'll see...
I appreciate for telling me all of this.
although each person been throw NDE or alot of Astral projections have many different opinions about this
it is very mind blowing indeed
but for what i see for example we can create our own realities. In lucid dreaming for example.
we can even create our own characters in that dream. visiting them over and over again.
but still they well always remain subjects that doesn't have any souls in it
it's only me the god of that small universe i made the real living thing
but also i can imagine it that way: maybe at sort of point or rank you might be able of produce life ( new spirits) in you're own universe
Quote from: Szaxx on November 17, 2014, 05:47:00
To add to the immensity, all the physical universes are contained in one shadow of a four dimensional one.
That takes some getting your head around.
Youtube flatland for a simplified introduction to the multidimensional aspect on this. We all understand three dimensions naturally. Any 3D shape is a shadow in 4D.
Mind blowing...
who know's maybe the entire cosmos is nothing but a lucid dream of a creature that is living in a larger 4 dimensions universe.
or someone who has reached the enlightenment in an older universe and created us.
maybe god is trying to educate us to become gods like him someday. just like a Parents teaching their kids how to be Parents someday
that really gives me the headache when i think about it :/
The more you think about it the more your mind shatters.
Are we Gods?
Let's take the familiarity with linear time out of the question.
How many more advanced practitioners of the art have been in that position where all time is available simultaneously?
Add to this the total clarity of mind where everything you've ever learned is instantly available in a flash of thought. You'll have noticed the clarity is way above the natural one in the physical. The physical aspect of size is also known where you can put the galaxy in your hand to seeing the spaces between atoms.
Then add that examination of objects with the hyper clear mind operating, you see the insides, the outsides, the internal workings and all this info is presented in a single thought packet you clearly understand. This sense of 'examination', of knowing, doesn't come close to anything available in the physical world.
It is an imprint in a telepathic sense that all the object has to offer is available instantly.
If all the above is clearly understood and taken for granted then the question starts to have perspective above the 3D world we think we understand.
Although we can create a realm of existance easily, these realms are also controlled by a higher authority. To test this for yourself all you need is hyper clarity and the desire to make a nasty place for (experimental purposes) and see what occurs.
We are no more than children and the most proficient practitioners will most likely agree.
No human mind can understand the communication principles with the source. We at best can see a hazy screenshot of a HD movie by comparison.
We are not Gods, we are led to believe we can be, to see if our reactions are justifiable in becoming one.
Life is a lesson, that needs some serious thought.
It's also over before it has really begun.
A list of thought provoking comments that should open the mind to more than the eye can see.
Quote from: Szaxx on November 18, 2014, 01:55:14
Are we Gods?
Let's take the familiarity with linear time out of the question.
How many more advanced practitioners of the art have been in that position where all time is available simultaneously?
Add to this the total clarity of mind where everything you've ever learned is instantly available in a flash of thought. You'll have noticed the clarity is way above the natural one in the physical. The physical aspect of size is also known where you can put the galaxy in your hand to seeing the spaces between atoms.
Then add that examination of objects with the hyper clear mind operating, you see the insides, the outsides, the internal workings and all this info is presented in a single thought packet you clearly understand. This sense of 'examination', of knowing, doesn't come close to anything available in the physical world.
It is an imprint in a telepathic sense that all the object has to offer is available instantly.
If all the above is clearly understood and taken for granted then the question starts to have perspective above the 3D world we think we understand.
Although we can create a realm of existance easily, these realms are also controlled by a higher authority. To test this for yourself all you need is hyper clarity and the desire to make a nasty place for (experimental purposes) and see what occurs.
We are no more than children and the most proficient practitioners will most likely agree.
No human mind can understand the communication principles with the source. We at best can see a hazy screenshot of a HD movie by comparison.
We are not Gods, we are led to believe we can be, to see if our reactions are justifiable in becoming one.
Life is a lesson, that needs some serious thought.
It's also over before it has really begun.
A list of thought provoking comments that should open the mind to more than the eye can see.
Szaxx is right about this, basically even tho we are really advanced in the physic world and we have a basic to a good understanding of the astral world. We're still like an empty box in the eyes of the source or god. A box with maybe a sheet of paper with our achievements on it... but that's all.
We can do basic stuff, we can imagine great things... We can invent technologies etc. But even tho we are getting good at this stuff, technology doesn't allow us to create a universe.
How I see it is that experienced spiritualists/enlightened persons will be given the privilege to stay there when they die. Basic teachings so that you can learn to create and manipulate energy out there from nothing.
More teaching about spirituality itself, deeper valors meanings, cleansing of the spirit, higher enlightenment. Language, Mathematics, basically everything that you need to learn and much much more. Until you are either called/allowed to go higher.
Then maybe you'll have attempts at creating small universes etc. Maybe there's even something better than universe who knows?
Inventing new spirits maybe? I have no idea.
Maybe there's different kinds of universes... parallel universes or dimensions? maybe learning how to create your own dimension...
There's always a possibility for something more.
Until then, all we can do is save them from their 'locked and cycling world' or get them the hell out of their predicament they seem to be in (retrievals). If we choose to make a river appear or make the forest far more dense :wink: , do it without them seeing it.
They escape and you don't fail.
Wonderful experiences to be had once you're in such a position.
:lol:
Are we gods?
You create your entire reality as you're experiencing it.
Yes, you're a god.
I'm a god.
Each consciousness here is a god.
We're all the authors of our own realities... and each others, this physical reality is nothing more than just one of an infinite number of non-physical realities.
Thanks guys for you're interesting theories.
I do believe how ever every spirit can create what ever it want's
But what makes us deference from the ultimate God of our common reality is that we are not ready yet to start forming other souls like us
we can create Mountains - Sailor - trees -entire planets - even fake living characters. But not real souls yet.
not until maybe millions of life times we have to live in and learn from every lesson comes from it.
Until then we might be ready to take their responsibilities and raise them
we all now getting raised by god by learning from these life times
we all still none adult children gods either we like or not.
and it's interesting in our physical reality that god is giving us an examples of his ultimate purpose. By allowing us having children and teach them to take responsibilities. just like what he is teaching us.
trust me raising a baby spirit won't be easy :D
even spirit's get throw challenges and pain and sadness and loneliness. some of them even prefer staying in their own hell they create.
a child spirit has to get throw many life times to learn. Experiencing of being good or evil. sad and happy.
and they also need guides just like the human children needs them
am sure some of you don't even want to start thinking about it
let's also remember something: It's our eternal freedom.
no one well force anything on us
QuoteYou create your entire reality as you're experiencing it.
Yes, you're a god.
I'm a god.
Each consciousness here is a god.
I agree with the fundamentals of this. And with this, I personally dont beleive this
Quotenot until maybe millions of life times we have to live in and learn from every lesson comes from it.
since anything is possible IMO, including becoming the type of God most people think of. I could become that without learning as much lessons as you would think, maybe even in this life.
I think everyone has the capability to alter their reality whether they realize it or not.
Good topic to discuss :-D
We are the "gods" or "editors" of our own realities. Think of that as a client-sided thing, though. Yes, we experience our own worlds, but we are only "gods", objectively speaking, in our own realities. We cannot be gods to anyone else unless they let us. We cannot make up another person's world experience. So really, we are only our own gods in our own worlds. In the world outside of our own minds, we are simply just people.
Yes i agree with all of you
but all of us also agree we're still not able to create a separate life (spirit) or consciousness of our own.
let me give you an example: in my lucid dreams i find my self being able to create what ever i want.
even people of my own creation.
i was their god for sure.
but they will still remain Soulless objects.
not unless someone else agreed to share my dream and become something with consciousness (that also might be good idea to understand how the earth world works) because it's a common huge dream.
but anyway no matter how far i can create i still won't have the to ability to create a spirit of my own and become it's god.
not with that childish experience i have compare to the wise elder ones.
because creating a life is a huge responsibility
that's something impotent i learned from star trek :D
but however maybe at a certain point they well allow me to do that kind of thing.
after having full understanding of what life really is.
this whole cosmos could be nothing but another spirit reality who got his education from an older universe. And now he became our creator and our god and also our universe.
and that older universe that created ours probably had the same story with even an older OLDER universe :D
this number probably goes on for ever.
At least this is how i imagine it
All evidence shows that life keep growing and expanding even in the none physical without any limitation and keep moving forward
After a lot of thinking I start making some connection between evaluation and reincarnation.
I imagine when a spirit is a new born it knows nothing at all.
It begins to reincarnate in a single cells creatures in earth and many different planet’s. to learn about life and everything in a very slow way.
Reincarnating so fast. And when it became ready to learn more it started to evolve the cells into something more and more sophisticated.
Each “after life” the spirit comes back with more knowledge it get’s from more sophisticated bodies and longer life times.
Until we became human
Now when we come back we come with more knowloge then ever.
I still fail to know who exactly are the elder ones.
They could be god’s from other universes. Or the spirits of wise people like Buddhist monks.
Nobody really knows
I leave that to you to decide
I still believe though that god well never stop forming new spirits.
That’s why reincarnation in animals and cells and Insects well still goes on.
I believe all of us been reincarnating for millions of years. And we reached so far and advanced right now.
And they are still those who are way far behind of us.
It’s a very long and a slow process indeed
Quote from: Lost soul on November 18, 2014, 20:21:07
After a lot of thinking I start making some connection between evaluation and reincarnation.
I imagine when a spirit is a new born it knows nothing at all.
It begins to reincarnate in a single cells creatures in earth and many different planet's. to learn about life and everything in a very slow way.
Reincarnating so fast. And when it became ready to learn more it started to evolve the cells into something more and more sophisticated.
Each "after life" the spirit comes back with more knowledge it get's from more sophisticated bodies and longer life times.
Until we became human
Now when we come back we come with more knowloge then ever.
I still fail to know who exactly are the elder ones.
They could be god's from other universes. Or the spirits of wise people like Buddhist monks.
Nobody really knows
I leave that to you to decide
I still believe though that god well never stop forming new spirits.
That's why reincarnation in animals and cells and Insects well still goes on.
I believe all of us been reincarnating for millions of years. And we reached so far and advanced right now.
And they are still those who are way far behind of us.
It's a very long and a slow process indeed
This is all what life is about, and love, giving the energy you don't need in order to help people around you evolve to the same spiritual level as you.
Most people don't realize they don't need that much energy to go through a day.
When the excess of energy is not properly managed it is wasted.
Energy vampires, or if you prefer, people that use you.
If you have just enough energy to go through your day and you give the excess to god or people who can put it to good use then that's good.
I think god use this excess energy to create more consciousness or distribute it back to the ones in need.
You explained it very well Lost Soul
Quote from: Kzaal on November 19, 2014, 01:57:33
This is all what life is about, and love, giving the energy you don't need in order to help people around you evolve to the same spiritual level as you.
Most people don't realize they don't need that much energy to go through a day.
When the excess of energy is not properly managed it is wasted.
Energy vampires, or if you prefer, people that use you.
If you have just enough energy to go through your day and you give the excess to god or people who can put it to good use then that's good.
I think god use this excess energy to create more consciousness or distribute it back to the ones in need.
You explained it very well Lost Soul
Thank you my friend
I really appreciate that :)
Yes and no. If everyone is a god... then isn't no one a god?
For a simpler, easier to follow example...
Say you take a feudal, European monarchy, and now declare that everyone is a king. Everyone gets to wear a crown (but not everyone can afford a golden crown, so some people can make theirs out of wood or such). Everyone is in charge, but they can't really make others do what they want, because all the subjects are kings now too. Everyone gets to live in the castle. Are these kings like the king that they had previously? Not really... some things are defined by exclusion.
So if everyone is a god, then being a god means something different than it meant before. The very fact of it being a universal trait means it lost its original definition.
Most meanings of the word that stem from the Greek idea center around the god being the apex of a certain ideal. There are none better than this being at what they excel at. They are the measuring stick against which all others must be compared.
It is another language issue again I think.
Quote from: Stillwater on November 19, 2014, 21:32:50
Yes and no. If everyone is a god... then isn't no one a god?
For a simpler, easier to follow example...
Say you take a feudal, European monarchy, and now declare that everyone is a king. Everyone gets to wear a crown (but not everyone can afford a golden crown, so some people can make theirs out of wood or such). Everyone is in charge, but they can't really make others do what they want, because all the subjects are kings now too. Everyone gets to live in the castle. Are these kings like the king that they had previously? Not really... some things are defined by exclusion.
So if everyone is a god, then being a god means something different than it meant before. The very fact of it being a universal trait means it lost its original definition.
Most meanings of the word that stem from the Greek idea center around the god being the apex of a certain ideal. There are none better than this being at what they excel at. They are the measuring stick against which all others must be compared.
It is another language issue again I think.
We all humans but not all humans are adults.
the same with gods
we are just young gods who's seeking the Infinite wisdom and knowledge.
and maybe at a certain level they might give us the power to create life
this how i imagine it
If we see god as a continuous spirit creationist then there will never be a time where everyone becomes god, there will always have more spirit to teach.
And if we eventually end up creating spirits too then it's exponential...
To say we're god like the source... No I don't think that's possible unless like I said you merge with it.
But to be a Celestial Overseer creating more universe... yeah that's a possibility.
And beside, it's not like from one day to another everybody will change and decide to go the spiritual path until they become that overseer.
Most people are not even interested in spirituality. Maybe 2 or 3 out of 10 will eventually find their way but the other souls are thrown back in the cycle of reincarnation until they start getting interested I think...
This is a real mystery.
Quote from: Kzaal on November 21, 2014, 17:21:55
If we see god as a continuous spirit creationist then there will never be a time where everyone becomes god, there will always have more spirit to teach.
And if we eventually end up creating spirits too then it's exponential...
To say we're god like the source... No I don't think that's possible unless like I said you merge with it.
But to be a Celestial Overseer creating more universe... yeah that's a possibility.
And beside, it's not like from one day to another everybody will change and decide to go the spiritual path until they become that overseer.
Most people are not even interested in spirituality. Maybe 2 or 3 out of 10 will eventually find their way but the other souls are thrown back in the cycle of reincarnation until they start getting interested I think...
This is a real mystery.
Yeah it's kind of hard to understand how all of this works with our small minds.
I wonder if you agree with me or not but i see the spirits who need to reincarnate do it by their own will.
like they spend something like 100 years in haven by their own time scale until they realize there is something is missing so they go back to learn more.
and they only do it with their guides and their help after planning for it very carefully.
Quote from: Lost soul on November 22, 2014, 16:09:57
Yeah it's kind of hard to understand how all of this works with our small minds.
I wonder if you agree with me or not but i see the spirits who need to reincarnate do it by their own will.
like they spend something like 100 years in haven by their own time scale until they realize there is something is missing so they go back to learn more.
and they only do it with their guides and their help after planning for it very carefully.
To me I see reincarnation as an obligation.
How I see it is that you need to reincarnate until you are enlightened.
After that you are free to stay up there or go back to teach people even more about reincarnation and wisdom.
I believe it's obligatory but I also believe that god or the source (whatever you call it) tells us the reason why we need to reincarnate.
If I was a bad spirit (say like hitler for example) then the source probably tells him what he did wrong, but calm his spirit until he understand that there's no other issues than to reincarnate to learn how to control himself. Eventually achieving enlightenment... However long that may take in Hitler's case (lol).
Or if you say that you don't care and you do not want to know anything about it, that he would put you in some kind of purgatory until you are calmed down and then he'd bring you back to tell you again that you need to reincarnate.
Maybe that each of our lives is god's parallel universe and that there's one for each single lives and we have to try em all, or a portion (like a room for each lives that, they're not test but rather destiny and that nothing you do will change the course of your actions, because of that, each room would be programmed to teach you the things you need to understand) See it like this: It would be so precise that anyone going through that life would do the same errors, and the same actions as anyone else going there.
But I believe once you are enlighten that you are free from reincarnation.
I strongly believe that no one can escape reincarnation until they are enlightened.
The reason for that is that it's the ultimate goal of a spirit.
An enlightened spirit stop thinking about his own and start helping others instead.
You may remember some stuff from past lives, or have some celestial flashbacks, I think those are signs that you are getting closer to your enlightenment too.
Even if someone is finished doing everything they want to do, some reincarnate just to go through life again. Some like the experience, some don't.
Maybe we are just those ones that like the experience then :wink:
I think we are gods in the sense that we are all individual expressions of the One, the Mind, God, Consciousness, or whatever we want to call it. We do create our own reality by what we think and strongly believe is true. That's why I'm into enlightenment now over enlightenment through eons of physical incarnations. All that "God" is is within you now -- wisdom, knowledge, love, prosperity, health, whatever. Believe it and act on it now "as if." Since I've been moving in this direction, my life has changed radically for the better health-wise and financially and wisdom for business. It's only my opinion but I think that "past life" experiences are a matter of us tapping into the One in whom all human experiences are recorded and tasting a bit of "what's there" through dreams and meditation. Nonetheless, with enlightenment now, I've just junked all of my past beliefs about reincarnation and my limitations. That's when I started finally started making real progress.
Think well! Siòn
I believe someone like Hitler has to get throw the lives of everyone he killed and also everyone of their relative.
and the good thing about the after life is YOU the only one who judge you're self.
Hell dose exist but the spirit it's self the one who torture it's self.
it's very hard for a spirit to forgive it's self if it did something very bad
that's why he has to live throw a life time of someone he destroyed in order to forgive it's self and move on.
I also believe if someone suicide if it hurt somebody else he has to see their pain and also has to live his life again maybe in an alternative time line and correct it's mistake.
I also see it that way. there are spirits are living in each one of our bodies at a different time lines.
but each past life also effect it's decisions somehow and makes each time line a unique one. because he planes for it before his life even starts.
so there are many others who are playing my character in many time lines, but also everyone is doing something different. because the past life times for each spirit is different then other because the spirit is also unique.
fate is situation of my character is born with. but decisions is what makes every time line is different.
they say 30 % of our life events is fate and 70 % comes from decisions
At the end the spirit is the only judge of it's self.
and sometimes it's not easy for them at all
I believe the Cosmos has given us our eternal freedom...
I am looking forward to reach enlightenment
I also believe that you can plan again for you're life event's after you die and change things happened in you're first life events.
i mean for example if i chosen is this life to marry someone. i might also chose to play throw this life again except not getting married with that person this time. in an alternative time line.
just to experience something different.
i believe everything is possible
Quote from: Stillwater on November 19, 2014, 21:32:50
Yes and no. If everyone is a god... then isn't no one a god?
Exactly. Actually, that's the entire point. We... "just are".
Quote from: Lost soul on November 17, 2014, 01:55:54
Recently after some searching and thinking i made up some conclusions:
every spirit chose to reincarnate to learn new stuff we all know that.
In the none physical world there is an infinite numbers of realities and dimensions.
every spirit can make - create what ever it want's
what i thought for some times that the physical universe is some sort of school for education new young god's which it's us as spirits
after learning so many things in so many life times we might reach some sort of level or rank that the Buddhists call it "Enlightenment"
which a point i believe the spirit is ready to start it's own universe and even create other new spirits of his own to raise them and teach them the way our god thought us
there are many common theories these days tells us about spirits before living a life in the physical world they make a lot planning and discussions with the who so called elders
the existence of the elders prove that the spirits are different in their ages just like us in the physical
some of us are old spirits and some others are new and young.
it could also prove that God isn't stopping giving birth to new baby spirits all the time
i begone to imagine that reaching the Enlightenment for a spirit is a level of growing where the spirit can become an adult God and even becoming able to create life and new spirits in it's own new universe
because at that point a spirit learned so far enough to take the responsibilities of taking care it's new children and it's own universe. Just like a man becoming ready to take care his own family and house
infinite numbers of universes creates even more infinite numbers of universes and it's been going on like that since ever!.
which it's crazy i know. but if someone has other opinion about the cosmos let me know :)
None of us really understand how everything started from the beginning. or even if it had a beginning.
it's just my conclusions
But it you embrace the idea that time is an illusion how can you be learning anything or going through a graduation? Surely you already know everything anyway? To me each individual life/experience is akin to the human body. Each of our cells has an exact copy of our DNA. Although each cell(or groups of cells) goes on to form a unique part of the whole each cell is the same in its quality and depth of information. With scientific knowledge you may quantify them cells as being different but they aren't..they are exactly the same! Them individual cells don't know about each of the equally same cells working away at the same time but they are! You could go smaller and say this about individual atoms/quantum particles or bigger and talk about planets or suns, then galaxies..then universes etc.. we may break down or break up but we come to the same thing at the same time
"Are We Gods"
IMHO, NO! Absolutely NOT!
First of all, I find it hard to accept the concept of multiple gods. There is either ONE or there is NONE. I find the concept of God temporarily forgetting about its true nature to be utterly ridiculous. Secondly, if there be a God it (I abhor referring to a possible God as being 'he' or 'she') would have to possess the attributes of being All Powerful, Omnipresent, All Knowing, Loving, Merciful, and Infinite.
In fact if there be a God it would need to possess ALL of the following attributes, as detailed wonderfully by the Islamic tradition in the following list:
___________________________________________________________________________________
The 99 Names (Attributes) of God (Allah)* according to the tradition of Islam are:
1.Ar Rahman (الرحمن) The All Merciful
2.Ar Rahim (الرحيم) The Most Merciful
3.Al Malik (الملك) The King, The Sovereign
4.Al Quddus (القدوس) The Most Holy
5.As Salam (السلام) Peace and Blessing
6.Al Mu'min (المؤمن) The Guarantor
7.Al Muhaymin (المهيمن) The Guardian, the Preserver
8.Al Aziz (العزيز) The Almighty, the Self Sufficient
9.Al Jabbar (الجبار) The Powerful, the Irresistible
10.Al Mutakabbir (المتكبر) The Tremendous
11.Al Khaliq (الخالق) The Creator
12.Al Bari' (البارئ) The Maker
13.Al Musawwir (المصور) The Fashioner of Forms
14.Al Ghaffar (الغفار) The Ever Forgiving
15.Al Qahhar (القهار) The All Compelling Subduer
16.Al Wahhab (الوهاب) The Bestower
17.Ar Razzaq (الرزاق) The Ever Providing
18.Al Fattah (الفتاح) The Opener, the Victory Giver
19.Al Alim (العليم) The All Knowing, the Omniscient
20.Al Qabid (القابض) The Restrainer, the Straightener
21.Al Basit (الباسط) The Expander, the Munificent
22.Al Khafid (الخافض) The Abaser
23.Ar Rafi' (الرافع) The Exalter
24.Al Mu'izz (المعز) The Giver of Honor
25.Al Muzil (المذل) The Giver of Dishonor
26.Al Sami' (السميع) The All Hearing
27.Al Basir (البصير) The All Seeing
28.Al Hakam (الحكم) The Judge, the Arbitrator
29.Al 'Adl (العدل) The Utterly Just
30.Al Latif (اللطيف) The Subtly Kind
31.Al Khabir (الخبير) The All Aware
32.Al Halim (الحليم) The Forbearing, the Indulgent
33.Al 'Azim (العظيم) The Magnificent, the Infinite
34.Al Ghafur (الغفور) The All Forgiving
35.Ash Shakur (الشكور) The Grateful
36.Al Ali (العلي) The Sublimely Exalted
37.Al Kabir (الكبير) The Great
38.Al Hafiz (الحفيظ) The Preserver
39.Al Muqit (المقيت) The Nourisher
40.Al Hasib (الحسيب) The Reckoner
41.Al Jalil (الجليل) The Majestic
42.Al Karim (الكريم) The Bountiful, the Generous
43.Ar Raqib (الرقيب) The Watchful
44.Al Mujib (المجيب) The Responsive, the Answerer
45.Al Wasi' (الواسع) The Vast, the All Encompassing
46.Al Hakim (الحكيم) The Wise
47.Al Wadud (الودود) The Loving, the Kind One
48.Al Majid (المجيد) The All Glorious
49.Al Ba'ith (الباعث) The Raiser of the Dead
50.Ash Shahid (الشهيد) The Witness
51.Al Haqq (الحق) The Truth, the Real
52.Al Wakil (الوكيل) The Trustee, the Dependable
53.Al Qawiyy (القوي) The Strong
54.Al Matin (المتين) The Firm, the Steadfast
55.Al Wali (الولي) The Protecting Friend, Patron, and Helper
56.Al Hamid (الحميد) The All Praiseworthy
57.Al Muhsi (المحصي) The Accounter, the Numberer of All
58.Al Mubdi' (المبدئ) The Producer, Originator, and Initiator of all
59.Al Mu'id (المعيد) The Reinstater Who Brings Back All
60.Al Muhyi (المحيي) The Giver of Life
61.Al Mumit (المميت) The Bringer of Death, the Destroyer
62.Al Hayy (الحي) The Ever Living
63.Al Qayyum (القيوم) The Self Subsisting Sustainer of All
64.Al Wajid (الواجد) The Perceiver, the Finder, the Unfailing
65.Al Majid (الماجد) The Illustrious, the Magnificent
66.Al Wahid (الواحد) The One, the All Inclusive, the Indivisible
67.Al Ahad (الاحد) The Unity, The indivisible
68.As Samad (الصمد) The Long, the Impregnable, the Everlasting
69.Al Qadir (القادر) The All Able
70.Al Muqtadir (المقتدر) The All Determiner, the Dominant
71.Al Muqaddim (المقدم) The Expediter, He who brings forward
72.Al Mu'akhkhir (المؤخر) The Delayer, He who puts far away
73.Al Awwal (الأول) The First
74.Al Akhir (الآخر) The Last
75.Az Zahir (الظاهر) The Manifest; the All Victorious
76.Al Batin (الباطن) The Hidden; the All Encompassing
77.Al Wali (الوالي) The Patron
78.Al Muta'al (المتعالي) The Self Exalted
79.Al Barr (البر) The Most Kind and Righteous
80.At Tawwab (التواب) The Ever Returning, Ever Relenting
81.Al Muntaqim (المنتقم) The Avenger
82.Al 'Afuww (العفو) The Pardoner, the Effacer of Sins
83.Ar Ra'uf (الرؤوف) The Compassionate, the All Pitying
84.Malik al Mulk (مالك الملك) The Owner of All Sovereignty
85.Dhu al Jalal wa al Ikram (ذو الجلال و الإكرام) The Lord of Majesty and Generosity
86.Al Muqsit (المقسط) The Equitable, the Requiter
87.Al Jami' (الجامع) The Gatherer, the Unifier
88.Al Ghani (الغني) The All Rich, the Independent
89.Al Mughni (المغني) The Enricher, the Emancipator
90.Al Mani' (المانع) The Withholder, the Shielder, the Defender
91.Ad Dharr (الضآر) The Distresser
92.An Nafi' (النافع) The Propitious, the Benefactor
93.An Nur (النور) The Light
94.Al Hadi (الهادي) The Guide
95.Al Badi (البديع) Incomparable, the Originator
96.Al Baqi (الباقي) The Ever Enduring and Immutable
97.Al Warith (الوارث) The Heir, the Inheritor of All
98.Ar Rashid (الرشيد) The Guide, Infallible Teacher, and Knower
99.As Sabur (الصبور) The Patient, the Timeless
NOTE: Allah is the literal translation of the word God and so is not one of his names. The names refer to "characteristics" and "attributes" of God (Allah).
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Last time I checked, no humans possess ANY of the characteristics mentioned on that list. If anything, I would venture say that we humans are more akin to DEMONS! Grubby, self-centered, shallow, materialistic, ignorant D E M O N S with the AUDACITY to ask ourselves whether we are 'gods'.
Actually, every single human that exists, has existed or will exist has the potential to exude every last characteristic on that list.
As I said in an earlier post, we are god... we are the creators of this reality (and any reality you can experience), and we continue to create it with every breath we take. If we (every living consciousness which inhabits this reality) were to disappear... so would this reality.
I think people are too fearful... fearful of religion... fearful of what being a creator of this reality potentially means. It means that you are fully and completely responsible for your own actions. Not only that, if you hurt someone, you're only hurting yourself in return. People don't want to face this fact because it would destroy the concept of individuality... and the ego won't allow that to be known. Basically, nobody wants to take responsibility for their own actions... especially not the actions that have formed the kind of world we have right now. Not that there isn't vast beauty in this world, but there are also horrible atrocities as well. Putting this responsibility off on some other being makes us feel vindicated.
There is only one god... Tom Cambell calls it the LCS (Larger Consciousness System), of which you, I and everything we have ever experienced is a small perspective of. Other people have different names for it... all metaphors. Some people call it "God", some call it "Allah", some call it something else. It's all the same. It's everyone and everything.
Understanding this changes your reality... it changes it COMPLETELY.
Quote from: Xanth on January 09, 2015, 20:33:35
Actually, every single human that exists, has existed or will exist has the potential to exude every last characteristic on that list.
Actually, NOT ONE single human that exists, has existed or will exist has ever exhibited a SINGLE ONE of the attributes mentioned on that list. Not O N E. Potential, shmotential. The greatest potential humans have is for wishful-thinking.
Quote from: Xanth on January 09, 2015, 20:33:35
It means that you are fully and completely responsible for your own actions
Exactly! And what precisely ARE the collective actions of human beings? Murder, torture, theft, lies, deception, cheating, egocentrism, ignorance and self importance ..to name just a few! A race of venomous snakes with the gall to consider themselves 'potential' gods. Here's MY take on what life on earth represents: the opportunity to LEAVE 'humanity' behind by recognizing the concept for what it truly is .. then subsequently transcending it altogether!! You know that 'hell' all the religions talk about so animatedly? Well, that 'hell' is also known as 'earth' and the demons we read about in all those sacred texts are also known as 'humans'.
If anything, our mission here is to learn how to STOP being
human.
You have a very negative perspective on life and humanity...
I used to look at the world in a very similar way that you do right now. About 5 - 6 years ago, I would have agreed with every word you said... not anymore.
You see the murder and cheating... I see the Love and beauty. That doesn't mean the murder and cheating doesn't exist, I just don't focus on them as my primary focus.
Change your perspective and you change your reality. YOU are the creator of your reality. Make use of it and stop being the victim.
Your mission here is to learn to Love.
Quote from: Xanth on January 09, 2015, 21:29:59
You have a very negative perspective on life and humanity...
I used to look at the world in a very similar way that you do right now. About 5 - 6 years ago, I would have agreed with every word you said... not anymore.
You see the murder and cheating... I see the Love and beauty. That doesn't mean the murder and cheating doesn't exist, I just don't focus on them as my primary focus.
Change your perspective and you change your reality. YOU are the creator of your reality. Make use of it and stop being the victim.
Your mission here is to learn to Love.
I've learned to love TRUTH (that would be God's attribute number 51 on the list I provided:
Al Haqq (الحق)
The Truth, the Real) above all else. I see the murder and cheating... you see the love and beauty. We're obviously BOTH right thus far. The human condition certainly fluctuates to both extremes. But the truth, as I see it of course, is that by this very admission of man's polarity between good & bad one accepts the underlying truth that the human race is intrinsically
flawed.
And flawed creatures do NOT good gods make, my friend. :-D
PS: that hopey-changey-based theory of "
Change your perspective and you change your reality" only works up to a certain point. Sometimes when faced with Reality one must learn instead to surrender & accept. Then again I'm talking about Reality with a capital R.
PS: I just want to clarify I'm NOT pointing fingers at anyone specifically in these forums but rather speaking in overall general terms of what I consider humanity to be. If anything, the people drawn to AP certainly all seem to be quite decent and likeable people. Now count how many participants AP has and then compare that number to how many other people out there prefer playing violent videogames or watching porn or indulging in some other similar self-destructive behavior online instead. MILLIONS! Right now.
One day you will learn. One day you'll realize it's not the "TRUTH" you love.
Interosculated sociology in context of human negativity has been detected lol.
Look at the simplest of organisms for reference, an amoeba. From a social viewpoint its the ultimate warrior, a terrorist etc. It eats anything viable it comes into contact with. In human terms it is therefore evil...
Now in perspective, its only doing what an amoeba does.
If we utilise excessive bias towards antisocial behavior, most things can be given this label. The referenced amoeba can be assimilated into a menagerie of sociopaths if no respect is paid to the inherent nature of each organism present. In human history so many people were terminated for being incorrectly assessed in this respect, witches, need I say more. Searching out a reason for any tenacious nature is the initial requirement or we're sure to mess things up.
How many people live in a country?
How few does it take to disrupt their harmony?
The harmony is ignored, the disruption stays with us for a long time.
Think on this then ask yourself what is statistically correct?, then look at your thoughts on the disruption and how they affect you.
It's very true odds of a million to one is harldy worth bothering with, however ten million to one statistically can affect everyone through social media if it has negative emotional aspects.
This can lead to the hatred of being human. The truth is, its this stirring of emotions that creates the prevarication. Being human socially isn't about disruption, its about caring and coexisting in peace which billions of us actually do. Those few who disrupt are not being human at all. Quite the opposite, they may have some erred impetus, but its an inhuman action. A sociological version of corporate greed if you like.
We as humans are mostly compassionate by nature, its those few bad apples that allow false assumptions on what we really are in essence.
Through time the amoeba evolved into complex organisms. We will do the same. If chasing the dream of our art is the way towards perfection then a few of us must be on the rails to fastrack success towards the ultimate goal.
If it means being in the presence of the source then we are heading where we need to go. The source may be our Utopia, we are a long way from this at present. We can't even get our emotional side to see the true reality of being human. At 10,000,000:1 odds and failing at recognizing the basic truth, we are not even ready to ask the question 'are we gods'.
Looking at the experiential side of being in the physical and that learned from the non physical. You may find more truth if you stop and do the math from the statistics of all the good actually being done versus all the bad.
One bad apple...
Still, there's far more love if you just look without bias.
In my view we are Gods in the sense that we are made from the 'stuff' of God. There is a place within us that is pure love and humility. A few on earth including myself have experienced this in it's fullness. When in this state you cannot even conceive of harming another. I'll call this the heaven experience. Now switch gears to the earth experience. The overwhelming love is gone. Well, not gone... it comes and goes here and there, but at a much lower strength. It is a shadow of what it was in the heavens. Why the dial down? To present us with the opportunity to choose. Choosing to serve ourselves at the expense of others is a pretty easy choice when you're not actively feeling the love. Of course the greed eventually catches up with us and the pain begins. In time, both the pain of selfishness and the pleasure of the 'God within' shining through and inspiring us on occasion teach us to choose empathy. People do change. I see it all the time. Empathy is contagious. The end result of our journey is an evolution to an even deeper, wiser, richer love than we started with in the heavens. We start with the love of innocence and end with the love of experience. Kind of like comparing a sweet innocent child to an older man who has sacrificed much for his beloved family.
Anyway, this world certainly seems like a hell whole, but we should not loose sight of our purpose here. The opportunity to choose to show love when selfishness seems to be all over the place is precious and we should value our time on the earth where this polarity exists. It doesn't seem like the good we do here makes a difference but it does. A seed planted takes time to grow.
Permanently I advise you to watch this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ra9QQ58b7JY
This has been a much more interesting conversation than I first thought it would be. The replies are really thoughtful and reflect much of my own beliefs. The question brings to my mind the Pango, the worlds's largest living self-cloned organism.
While the original may have been God or the Source, the rest only have the potential.
Quote from: Szaxx on November 18, 2014, 01:55:14
Although we can create a realm of existance easily, these realms are also controlled by a higher authority. To test this for yourself all you need is hyper clarity and the desire to make a nasty place for (experimental purposes) and see what occurs.
Your entire post was incredible Szaxx; what does this mean? Is there some intelligent monitor of the dreams we create that will come down and lay the ban hammer if disobeyed? I remember people speaking of astral bans in the past actually. Is there really a limit to what we can do? My gut says that consciousness can create anything and that it can go its own way.
I see our units of consciousness as a reduction of the whole, not a new unit. As you expand your perspective you break down the limits that separate you from the whole. One could say that full enlightenment is removing all of the barriers to knowing you are consciousness.
Standard dreams are not created directly by oneself and as such are not yet fully understood so I don't think it applies. With better than physical wakefulness and from the 3D void your experience is totally under your control. There was a time I experimented with the 'creativity' and pushed it to its limits. There's nothing you couldn't create. By gaining full awareness and 'annoying' a group of thugs that were already in the scene to give chase, I went out on a limb and was altering the environment immediately in front of me. This gave me a great deal of 'how to do it' whilst aiming to not get caught. I could have easily jumped and started flying but that wasn't the game I was playing. If I got caught they'd have pummelled me until I was turned into soup. This wasn't an option I wanted to take again as it does hurt lol. Running through a wooded area I moved trees around and created bridges to cross rivers. After a while I started to slow down and they didn't. A twist I wasn't expecting. To slow them I created more trees behind me and turned the ground into thick mud. Once clear I was free and woke up.
Those types of experiences were allowed with no interference.
On another crystal clear experiment I decided to generate a world that was a challenge. In this one poisonous plants, 2 feet long wasps and all sorts of nasties were being generated in a dark and inhospitable environment. I wanted to test my abilities on survival and this assault course would have done the trick. However I was removed from it by unknown forces and told others could visit and that wasn't allowed. I was placed in a beautiful sunny countryside scene with soft grass and trees next to a babbling brook and told to rest here.
I've no idea why I was booted out as I would have collapsed the assault course once finished. This when thinking about it may not have occurred if I failed and this was very likely.
Other times long ago, I have been with a guide or two when visiting some nasty places they were showing me.
Having spent a long time in the Badlands and seeing all sorts of unsavoury things I would have expected some help or have been removed from this place. That never occurred as it was my training ground. At such a young age it looks preposterous, I learned the hard way and what I learned has been extremely helpful.
If the booting out was on my mind I would have accepted it as a manifestation. It wasn't and being told to rest was definitely not what I wanted to achieve that night.
I'm convinced there's more than we accept, astral police? Gimme a break, it's far deeper than that. Every time I get in a position that's at my percieved limits, something pushes me past it and failure isn't an option.
Quote from: Szaxx on August 03, 2016, 21:19:30
If the booting out was on my mind I would have accepted it as a manifestation. It wasn't and being told to rest was definitely not what I wanted to achieve that night.
I'm convinced there's more than we accept, astral police? Gimme a break, it's far deeper than that. Every time I get in a position that's at my percieved limits, something pushes me past it and failure isn't an option.
I agree Szaxx. This always brings me back to my questions about "structure, as in rules" in some of these Otherworlds.
I created a thread based on this titled "Tests, Quests and Challenges. http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_out_of_body_experiences/tests_quests_and_challenges-t46546.0.html
A simple forum search on "Astral Police" brings up some great conversations as well, even though the title "Astral Police" is so vague. As you said and I have also found out, it is far deeper then that.
All you can rely on is your own perception of what is, because in the end, that's all you have. :-)
Another amazing recollection Szaxx, the clarity of mind to construct realities from the void is where I want to be. I have gone as far as to alter a dream reality in front of my face, transforming concrete to grass, but I struggled to maintain clarity without constant refocus.
If I understand you correctly, the theory seems to be that your deadly jungle environment may not have been a personal reality experience. Perhaps you created something in a malleable reality which is shared by others. I can't really imagine a realistic reason why it would matter in timeless infinity that one corner has a nasty jungle. Even if I created a jungle in the middle of everyone's favorite astral hangout couldn't the location be cloned with a thought?
Can these entities really control our consciousness and what we perceive, even if we wish to not be involved with them? What would have happened if you said, "actually I think I'll go back to my jungle, sorry bud" and just did it?
In a physical sense were not gods, but we can become God like, but it will take a while to reach. But first we must confirm what is a God, and for me a god creates, heal for the most part, but we do this in months, but a God does it in days. But I'm sure I'm thinking on a small scale, there is a lot more that a God does, and we as humans or as souls have barely scratched the surface. This is just my opinion. I think everyone must find their own way to God status in their on their own journey. I think I found my way to it, but I must test this theory first.
Quote from: Bloodshadow on August 04, 2016, 16:06:13
In a physical sense were not gods, but we can become God like, but it will take a while to reach. But first we must confirm what is a God, and for me a god creates, heal for the most part, but we do this in months, but a God does it in days. But I'm sure I'm thinking on a small scale, there is a lot more that a God does, and we as humans or as souls have barely scratched the surface. This is just my opinion. I think everyone must find their own way to God status in their on their own journey. I think I found my way to it, but I must test this theory first.
How many people have a clear understanding in their own minds of just what they would look like if they actually did get anywhere close to being godlike?
Not very many, I would say.
As a practical consideration it would have to be taken in stages. First one would have to exercise enough self control to know how to get through the day without committing any of the 7 deadly sins, without hurting anyone else, being kind and responsible... like my mom.
Finally one would rise to the level of having basically complete control over one's universe. One would be able to consciously move throughout the Universe at will, perform miracles, walk on water, etc. ... like Padre Pio.
From what I see, not very many people even come close to the earliest steps of ascending to godhood.
Take for example the way people behave in heavy traffic. A very large percentage of drivers succumb to anger over almost nothing. As an experiment a few years ago I started to toot my horn in a short burst when I passed jaywalkers leaning close to my vehicle as I passed by. I am astounded that easily 95% will flip the bird at me as I glance in the rear view mirror. Personally, I have never once in my life ever made such a rude gesture to any other creature on earth, ever... not once. And this is just a very small step in the self discipline arena.
For some reason in large cities very violent gangs form and they go about behaving in borderline DEMONIC fashion. Forget being godlike... they are one baby step away from demon status. Then just spread the net a little wider and list off the criminal behaviors -- aggravated assault, all manner of theft... if you look at the number of people who are shoplifters... I have family that works security and they say this is going on every day, all day long in virtually every retail store in the country.
Then if you look at the number of wife beaters and child abuse... then drug and alcohol abuse... fuhgetabout it....
Almost no one is even trying to be anything close to their God potential.
Are we gods?
answer; NO, not even close.
Not even 1% of humanity is even trying.
Again I will say we all have our Journeys to God status, towards the type of god we like to be, in my mind no God should be alike, if we all working to become just one way, it will be like becoming a robot, like most already are, being bent to someone elses will, or way of thinking, we can be a whole and still be different. unlike the so called god we have now, or the way is depicted in a book, contradicting and judgemental, and jealous. that's definitely not the type of God I want to be there will be punishment for wrong doings but it will not be for an eternity or forever, what kind of heaven would be good without all your loved ones, when half of them burning in a hell forever, not my cup of tea, you will be punished for a time and let to be with your family and loved onesas long as a lesson was learned. anyway i'm going to stop here before I start rambling on.