Gateway Experience Question

[Seeker75]

I still don't get the Gateway-Tapes, how long you should listen to them and when to proceed to the next tape.

I own the whole series since 3 years now and listend countless times to them, especially the first wave and especially the last excercise (Focus 10).
Never I felt anything special, no floating, no change in my dreams at night, no sense of being ,,elsewhere".
I just hear the sound and am very relaxed, and after 30 minutes it's over and I stand up.

Should one listen to them during a WBTB, again and again?
(I listend to some binaural beats and guided meditations already with WBTBs, but this only created insomnia each time, so I gave up to do it)

[Xanth]

Hello Seeker!

I split your question out into its own thread so as not to interfere with Blossom's thread. 

I still don't get the Gateway-Tapes, how long you should listen to them and when to proceed to the next tape.

Listen to each wave until you feel the time is ready for you to move on.  It's really all about YOU and how YOU feel.
If you think you've gone too far with the tapes or you're not understanding them or making any progress, then you can always go back to other waves. 

I own the whole series since 3 years now and listend countless times to them, especially the first wave and especially the last excercise (Focus 10).
Never I felt anything special, no floating, no change in my dreams at night, no sense of being ,,elsewhere".
I just hear the sound and am very relaxed, and after 30 minutes it's over and I stand up.

You have to kind of engage your mind with the tapes.  There's no point where you just "listen", this is an active participation program. 

It's like when you sit down to meditate, you need to bring that same kind of engagement to this.

Should one listen to them during a WBTB, again and again?
(I listend to some binaural beats and guided meditations already with WBTBs, but this only created insomnia each time, so I gave up to do it)

Well, the wake back to bed method is more about reminding yourself to become aware *AFTER* you've fallen back asleep. 
So you wouldn't really use a binaural beat or any other sound.  Instead, you allow yourself to drift back to sleep, but while doing that, you're repeating to yourself something to the effect of "I recognize I am dreaming and become aware".  Something like that. 

[Seeker75]

Alright, thanks, Xanth!
The thing with the WBTB sounds legit, yes, this is how I came to understand it, too.
Just wake up, remember your intent and sleep.

With the gateway-tapes, well, of course I don't just listen passively.
I try to feel and imagine what the voice told me.
For example with Focus 12 I always imagine to fly in a vast, blue sky, while in Focus 10 I just am in complete Darkness.
I really try to BE in that darkness (or the sky).
Same with the other exercises, I visualize and imagine all that is described or asked, but this doesn't create any sensations/experiences which show me that I make any progress.
For example my body doesn't really sleep in focus 10, I'm just very relaxed.

[Xanth]

Your body won't be asleep in focus 10.

Focus 10 is more akin to the kind of focus you get when you get REALLY into a good book or a good movie.
I'd suggest that you have 90% of your awareness still physically and 10% non-physical. 

Focus 12 is more of an expanded relaxed state where the void comes into play a bit more.  You'll start to get a sense of depth and 3d-ness to your field of view.  At that point, the physical/non-physical split is more like 60%/40%.  You're getting more into the non-physical, and you can still feel your body "back there", but that sense isn't gone completely. 

[Seeker75]

Your body won't be asleep in focus 10.

Focus 10 is more akin to the kind of focus you get when you get REALLY into a good book or a good movie.
I'd suggest that you have 90% of your awareness still physically and 10% non-physical. 

Focus 12 is more of an expanded relaxed state where the void comes into play a bit more.  You'll start to get a sense of depth and 3d-ness to your field of view.  At that point, the physical/non-physical split is more like 60%/40%.  You're getting more into the non-physical, and you can still feel your body "back there", but that sense isn't gone completely. 

Alright, thanks for the clarification!
So the whole gateway is simply a ,,roadmap" from full wakefulness to the void, and you learn gradually to achieve deeper and deeper states.

I still wonder, though, what you can or should ,,expect" to experience in order to know that you are ,,ready" for a certain focus level.

For example Focus 12, I manage to feel like floating in the sky, but nothing ,,happens".
So, am I ready to continue with the next excercises and waves of gateway?
Or shall I stay with Focus 10 / 12 until I experience something ,,spiritual", something, that ,,proofs" me that I am more than that physical body?

[Lumaza]

I still wonder, though, what you can or should ,,expect" to experience in order to know that you are ,,ready" for a certain focus level.

"Expect nothing". "Experience everything"! 

[Lumaza]

 Seeker. I was recently reading some old posts that I made here in the past and came across this one here. I think this might just help you in your situation. Learning how to "hold" a focus is very important in the practice of Phasing.
https://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome-to-astral-consciousness!/new-challenge-focus/

[Xanth]

Seeker. I was recently reading some old posts that I made here in the past and came across this one here. I think this might just help you in your situation. Learning how to "hold" a focus is very important in the practice of Phasing.
https://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome-to-astral-consciousness!/new-challenge-focus/

Man, the stuff I missed not being around much the last several years. 

Thanks for this, I'll give it all a good read tomorrow!

[Seeker75]

Seeker. I was recently reading some old posts that I made here in the past and came across this one here. I think this might just help you in your situation. Learning how to "hold" a focus is very important in the practice of Phasing.
https://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome-to-astral-consciousness!/new-challenge-focus/

This is even more helpful for me, thanks!
Wonderful post you wrote there 👍

[EscapeVelocity]

Seeker75-

I bought the Gateway cassette tapes in 1995, my GF bought me the CD's in 2005...personally, they did not do much for me, but that's me! In 2018, I spent a week at The Monroe Institute and did the entire Gateway Program for six days.

It was a great experience for many reasons, but it still did not work for me, like I had expected. Reason being: I am hard-headed and difficult! I cannot relax and cannot down-tune myself into the appropriate mood...even with five days of Hemi-Sync!

Since then, I have done 4 more week-long courses at TMI and had wonderful, if not perfect, experiences. The courses have NEVER gone according to plan and I have spent days upon days of pure frustration, only to be interrupted by amazing experiences, which have led me forward on this path. Has it been perfect or what I expected? No. But I work with what I get.

So quit doubting yourself. Some of us are just more hard-headed than others (me included).

I will disagree slightly with Xanth here and say that Focus 10 is described accurately as Mind Awake/Body Asleep by TMI. That never worked for me and was never my experience until one night, I had a several-hour NP/SP etheric/phasing set of experiences...probably brought on by a bout of severe indigestion. During this period, I had clear knowledge that my physical body was asleep and snoring, while my consciousness was free to roam as it wanted. I freely exited and re-entered my body over a few hours; an amazing experience. So, I guess I could call that a deep Focus 10.

The difference is a question of degree and it took me a long time to realize that. Upon my third week at TMI, I inquired upon a few people about the 'facts' of Focus 10. Each of them were definite in that they could almost always reach a MABA state...I disagreed, saying that I could not achieve the fullest, deepest state except in the rarest of times. In all honesty, the women seemed much more able to achieve the state on a consistent basis. Nonetheless, throughout the TMI programs of Lifeline and X27, I had been able to move to the higher Focuses of F23-F27 nearly every time and it wasn't until I asked the most experienced Facilitator at TMI, that he explained how each Focus Level should be thought of as a 'range' of frequency...that there can be a high F10 or a medium F10 or a low F10...a high F23 or a lower F23 and that as long as you could work within that level, then just be accepting of it...sometimes we limit our own perceptions for certain reasons and sometimes outside forces limit our perceptions...you begin to realize that these experiences are becoming much more complicated and on multiple levels...it is hard to describe without experiencing it yourself.

Given my understanding so far of 'outside forces', I realize the broader and deeper context to this idea. It is not a perfect or ideal answer that I wanted, but I can understand its nature.

Hope that helps in some part.
EV

[Seeker75]

It is not a perfect or ideal answer that I wanted, but I can understand its nature.

Hope that helps in some part.
EV

Hello and thank you very much for your insights and detailed post!
It's quit interesting to read about your way and experiences.

Regarding me...to be honest, it doesn't really help that much, no.
My ,,issue" is that I try to experience an OBE since almost 9 years now, without success.
At least concerning an ,,exit" from my body.
I had several lucid dreams already, all just within the past 2 years. They don't last long and they don't get completely stable, but I remember to have been lucid to some degree and that I could choose what to do.

In my last one (they all happen spontaneous each and every 3-8 weeks) I wanted to enter the Park (Focus 27) and nothing happened at all.
So I feel ,,not welcome" on the other side.

Perhaps that's the reason I don't achieve any AP / OBEs?
Don't know.
So, regarding Gateway, I just don't get the exercises as / if nothing happens.
No experience of being more than my physical body, no signs that I make progress.
Thus, I don't know if I should repeat the early excercises again and again, or if I should continue to the higher waves, or if I should simply stop listening to them (which I did many times already, of course)

[Xanth]

I will disagree slightly with Xanth here and say that Focus 10 is described accurately as Mind Awake/Body Asleep by TMI. That never worked for me and was never my experience until one night, I had a several-hour NP/SP etheric/phasing set of experiences...probably brought on by a bout of severe indigestion. During this period, I had clear knowledge that my physical body was asleep and snoring, while my consciousness was free to roam as it wanted. I freely exited and re-entered my body over a few hours; an amazing experience. So, I guess I could call that a deep Focus 10.

Yeah, I've never been a big proponent of the focus model for this very reason.  haha

So, Focus 10... I'm reading the TMI Focus Model page, does indeed state "mind awake/body asleep" as Focus 10.  I guess I've been assuming this stuff all wrong.  I guess it's more of a deeper state than I first anticipated.

What focus level does TMI list "The void" at?  Cause I have always been saying Focus 12, the point where the blackness gains that sense of depth.

Ooooooh:

Focus 15 – A state of No-Time. Consciousness is now far removed from physical body signals. Linear time is no longer relevant to experience. Sometimes referred to as the Void or Pure Potential.

Focus 15!  Hmmmm... ok all this is going to seriously change the way I look at some of this stuff. 

I'm gonna have to mess around a bit more in those states and figure this out. 

[Lumaza]

Yeah, I've never been a big proponent of the focus model for this very reason.  haha

So, Focus 10... I'm reading the TMI Focus Model page, does indeed state "mind awake/body asleep" as Focus 10.  I guess I've been assuming this stuff all wrong.  I guess it's more of a deeper state than I first anticipated.

What focus level does TMI list "The void" at?  Cause I have always been saying Focus 12, the point where the blackness gains that sense of depth.

Ooooooh:Focus 15!  Hmmmm... ok all this is going to seriously change the way I look at some of this stuff. 

I'm gonna have to mess around a bit more in those states and figure this out. 

My focus levels have always been "deep", "deeper" and "even deeper". I could add "deepest", but I don't really know how deep it gets!    I have never attempted to or even subscribed to any of the actual written focus levels. They always confused me. I guess that's because I have always lived by the adage "KISS", keep it simple stupid. In that adage I find that I don't need to know all the "nuts and bolts". I just experience what is shown to me!

[EscapeVelocity]

Xanth and Lumaza, I agree with both of you on the limitations and confusion that inherently results in an arbitrary system such as Monroe's Focus level definitions. However, in describing any 'unknown' new thing or territory, some form of reference must be utilized. We either use old and common terms or we create new ones and look for common agreement; without which, we don't get very far.

Initially, I accepted and preferred Monroe's Focus levels as a form of reference or road signs on the 'NP highway', but honestly, in practice, it really did not work for me. Having spent many weeks at TMI, I have found a mixture of opinions- for some, the Focus levels work almost perfectly as reference points; for others, like myself, the reference Focus levels work much less consistently; so it is a mixed bag of results.

For me, at TMI, Focus 10 only resulted at best, in a very relaxed state. I honestly could not differentiate between F10 and F12...Focus 15 is supposed to put you in the Void range; I have never felt that, maybe a deeper F10 or F12, maybe a few times a glimmer of the Void characteristics. My singular best Void experience was the first experience I shared here on the Pulse back in 2013, my Fieldtrip experience. But that Void experience was the result of coming aware from within a very deep sleep.

Every subsequent Focus level just seems to deepen my trance/awareness...I don't really get the differentiations described at TMI; nonetheless, I can report many TMI participants do experience more nuanced understanding of the different Focus levels; so it seems a matter particular to the individual.

The significant event that occurs for me is around Focus 21 and above, when I have a definite purpose and intention; then I begin to automatically Phase; I just 'shift' into the required environment. I get the sense it is not self-manufactured because it is completely unexpected and a 'mission' begins to unfold. No etheric OBE stuff, never had it at TMI...at least my personal experience, although many others have. In my various TMI groups, I definitely notice two groups early on- the etheric OBE'rs and the Phasers. By the time I got to Retrievals and Exploration 27 and onward, all the consistent experiencers were Phasers, whether they described themselves as that, or not. And some truly diverse and talented people beyond my skillset...I have described some of these events.
By the time I start Phasing into Focus 22 and higher, the experiences are very closely-aligned to the described Focus level- F22 involves Hell regions and lower Afterlife regions, F23 moves up from there into a 'cleaner' vibrational region where retrievals are generally attempted; F24 through F26 are described by TMI as the Belief System Territories (BST's) of gradually aging religious systems...I never honestly experienced the TMI tour of this area, but one of my last retrievals seemed to definitely involve dropping off a soul there. Focus 27 is the Afterlife gathering area that most of us will enter- Summerland, the Park, etc. I had several experiences there, but I would have preferred some more to satisfy my curiosity. Beyond that, in the Starlines program, we ventured into much higher Focus levels...with mixed results for myself: some disappointing, some amazing...so, there is always more out there...just where you want to pound in a signpost and call some place/where/frequency point a particular place...go for it, lol.

So, Monroe's Focus levels description can work, but not for everybody, nor every time. Having the experience I do, I like the simpler version of Frank Kepple's 4 Focus levels, but I can see that it would likely be too simple and unclear for newer experiencers. There are times for more detail and times for less detail.

An interesting jigsaw puzzle.

[omcasey]

Given my understanding so far of 'outside forces', I realize the broader and deeper context to this idea. It is not a perfect or ideal answer that I wanted, but I can understand its nature.

Please don't stop here. Please continue ( ! )

[EscapeVelocity]

omcasey,

'Outside forces'...I use that term to only indicate the influential forces that are out there in the Non-Physical (NP), guiding us and pushing us. I don't pretend to even barely more than understand their existence and the purpose of their involvement in many of our lives...all of us? No, not necessarily all of us...maybe a far fewer number than we think, but for those of us involved and concerned consciously in our individual soul development? Yes, it seems apparent that we eventually become aware of these influences, and the forces are definitely focused upon each of us, even into surprisingly personal terms. The question becomes- Who is generating this and to what degree?

So, that leads into theories of Higher Self, Oversoul, Disk Members (the Monroe idea), aspects of Self, aliens, Angels, Helpers, Teachers, Instructors...go ahead, add a few more...I have some more ideas to add to this.

This should probably be a whole new thread, but it needs to start somewhere...

My point is that there is an incredible complexity to the levels of individual guidance many of us are experiencing/receiving. Can we even try to relate and correlate these experiences with one another among us? Or are they incredibly powerful, yet uniquely individual events to keep to ourselves? I think we need to try to share them and learn.

Maybe it is sharing larger events and realizations; maybe smaller, individual events. Here is one-

My first Lifeline Retrieval at TMI in 2019 involved the death of an American soldier in the MidEast. I entered the session and felt difficulty in asking for a retrieval and receiving any kind of energetic response. I was in darkness. Swimming in darkness, I eventually noticed a small, 20 inch tv screen materializing in my visual field. And in a barely, technicolor fashion, I saw a line of soldiers moving up a ridgeline when they were shot up by automatic gunfire. The lead soldier went down with several wounds, which I 'knew' had killed him...the scene disappeared. When the scene reappeared, the visual screen was now probably 70 inches and I felt nearly 'within' the scene, but not exactly...I was reaching out to the soldier and helping him to his feet, despite the continuing gunfire around us...the scene faded again, only briefly...the next scene, I was fully there in the and holding his arm and instructing him to follow me as we rose into the air and up to Focus 27 where the retrieval was completed.

Here is possibly an example of the process at work- Xanth mentioned trying to better understand Monroe; and I mentioned Moen; and omcasey referred to my comment 'outside forces' which, while I was re-reading passages of Moen's last book (in order to answer Xanth), which mentioned an idea I had not before realized: That Guides will often impose an emotional screen onto early retrieval experiences, in order to protect and determine a retriever's ability to discriminate and maintain an emotional distance to the retrieval at hand.
For the last several years, I had determined that my first impression of this retrieval- the 20 inch tv screen, was my inability to properly focus within the experience. Re-reading Moen's book, that passage, made me realize that I might have been wrong all this time. The 20 inch screen visual that I had, may have not been due to my own lack of NP sensibilities, but rather an 'emotional screen' imposed from outside myself...until a determination could be made as to how I would deal with the situation on an emotional level...a safeguard, as it were. An inside thing or outside? A complete other question.

Again, the synergy of these questions brought me to a whole new consideration.

Further thoughts are needed.

[omcasey]

It is the joy of discussing these things with each other, isn't it? — it leads to deeper and deeper contemplation. Our ideas evolve as we learn more, and as they evolve they are becoming more open to an increasingly greater spectrum of possibility. Our 3D minds struggle to hold it all for more than mere moments. Discussion helps keep it all alive. I am not sure I will ever cease to be amazed at the experiences we are given in expanded states ( yours mentioned above being an incredible example ). Nor at the shifts into and out of them. May I ask what was behind your original impression of the television? Why did you first think it to mean what you did? I like that you have shifted focus from what you thought of the tv screen, to the Guidance, and the tv being a representation of what they might have been placing there. It can even all be true, all at once, can't it?

Thank you for explaining further what you mean by "outside forces".

Altogether clear now.

[EscapeVelocity]

Casey, yes the beauty of it all is when the thought occurs that 'it all can somehow be true at the same time'.

Opening to a greater spectrum of possibility...absolutely!

Looking back at my notes, I didn't have much on the television screen. I was swimming in darkness, not even the Void, I think. I had requested helping in a retrieval at the beginning of the session and this was like ten minutes in. Rather than a television screen, it was like PIP or Picture in Picture...very clear and definite, just a noticeably smaller picture, set within the blackness.

The next screen was markedly larger, but still separate from me in an emotional sense, which only occurred to me later.

So, my natural instinct is to think that is somehow a self-imposed limitation of my perception and not an exterior imposition. Now, I look back and wonder whether it was my subconscious or my higher self or something beyond and outside my self...I just don't know, but like you say, the question serves to expand my thinking.

Great stuff...and the genesis of a new thread on 'Guidance'.