Dear folks,
I wanted to share this with you.
This is probably the best explanation of proper meditation I've ever come across.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QpbzxHta_0&feature=related
kind regards,
Paul
This guy sounds exactly like my boss when he 'channels' some enlightened master. Exactly. Creepy.
Anyway, transcendental meditation was a big fad some years ago I think.
When I was like 18 I was researching a metaphysical university based on this guy and transcendental meditation.
I really liked how he talked about meditation and self-discovery too.
It'll always be the most healthy meditation there is that beats any system of meditation since it transcends them all. It can be coined many names but I'll call it proper meditation or passive meditation.
Here's a more scientific view on proper meditation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l41mBbn4ho&feature=related
kind regards,
Paul
When you truly hit that "transcendental" state, you're not meditating anymore. You've even transcended it.
.
spam post removed.
Critique be voiced in a mature way.
spam post removed
THIS IS WHY WE CANT HAVE GOOD STUFF!
Quote from: NEW_Anna on May 07, 2010, 19:06:40
TM is a cult, all about making money and controlling the minds of people. Don't be fooled by the "meditation" bit.
I will agree with this. I have always felt that there is something fishy with the organizations associated with TM today.
I've read of people who've been mentally damaged by these organizations. It looks to me like there is definatly some kind of mind-control involved.
No wonder the ruling elite highly promotes them.
However, i think the idea itself of teaching something that is not a system and can only happen naturally is fundamentally flawed. Maharishi did a great job of describing the process of proper meditation properly however any effort to teach this to another is a counter-productive step in my opinion.
Many times I have tried to teach myself proper meditation and it always resulted in utter failure and I always came to the conclusion that I could only let it happen naturally. Any pattern any habituation is a culprit to the practice of meditation. One can not learn or own meditation like one can own a skill for playing an instrument.
Folks, if you plan to fill my threads with spam and flame in the future, save your energy and time. Other threads may be but my threads are no kindergartens.
kind regards,
Paul
Quote from: Tiny on May 08, 2010, 02:57:02
Folks, if you plan to fill my threads with spam and flame in the future, save your energy and time. Other threads may be but my threads are no kindergartens.
nah, my spam was only exactly synonymous to your "It'll always be the most healthy meditation there is that beats any system of meditation since it transcends them all." spam. Maybe you need to edit your own post then or you can just simply continue to exploit a bug on the forums to censor others while you parade systems that aren't yours inappropriately :-D
SPAM!
Tiny is stupid, his posts are lame, no one likes to read them.
Everything you say is wrong.
FLAME!
Go hunt witches somewhere else.
How can we expect to have civil communication with no order, no hierarchy of control in this forum. If everyone just went around and modified whatever is in-congruent with their posts what the hell is the point of a forum.
Stop being a baby Tiny. Learn some humility and be the bigger person or leave.
Your one man crusade against the evils of Astral Pulse is little more than elitism and a pitiful person struggling for martyrdom. You're not the white knight riding in on his horse to save the kingdom. You are not the only one who knows "truth". You need to accept that others are capable of complex thought and have experience to share.
Get over yourself, I'm tired of your "Anti-Trolling" Campaign.
Quote from: Xanth on May 07, 2010, 19:53:55
spam post removed.
Critique be voiced in a mature way.
TINY...
You have ZERO right to edit our posts.
You're abusing a forum BUG.
If you cannot abide by the forum rules, please leave these forums alone. Posting here opens you up to constructive criticism. If you can neither handle this criticism or are offended by it... I highly suggest deleting your account and moving to a more passive approach to reading the forums.
You have finally stepped over the line.
~Ryan
Hey Tiny, come on...
Knowing myself I probably said something humorous, but now I don't remember what I said and it is gone forever!
Ah cool a bug i gotta start a thread
I remembered, lol
Nice to have a sense of humor...
so like, transcendental meditation is awesome - http://www.suggestibility.org/ (http://www.suggestibility.org/)
lol, of course TM is a load of crap. Even the Beatles stopped hanging out with Mahareshi or whatever he's called because apparently he was a womanizer and misogynist. The meditation's negative side effects aside, the financial cost just to learn the meditation is ridiculous. Now TM's leader wants to build schools around the world where he teaches people how to fly... physically... I think I heard one of his schools was in the Canadian maritimes somewhere, but me personally, i think he is full of crap as are his TM teachings.
I gave up on preaching about meditation. My earliest posts left me a bit disillusioned about the overall attitude toward meditation in these forums. I truly appreciated the practices as described in "The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying" by Sogyal Rinpoche. There has been no other reliable way to AP as this for me and the practice has multiple benefits depending on how devoted you are to the practice.
That being said I am still struggling with "phasing" and will get back to pondering Franks PDF.
Quote from: Psilibus on May 10, 2010, 08:38:58
My earliest posts left me a bit disillusioned about the overall attitude toward meditation in these forums.
The overall attitude?
I must admit, I'm a tad baffled by that statement. :)
QuoteThat being said I am still struggling with "phasing" and will get back to pondering Franks PDF.
I'm actually struggling a bit as well at the moment... mostly due to lack of practice-time though. LoL
~Ryan :)
Quote from: Psilibus on May 10, 2010, 08:38:58
I gave up on preaching about meditation. My earliest posts left me a bit disillusioned about the overall attitude toward meditation in these forums. I truly appreciated the practices as described in "The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying" by Sogyal Rinpoche. There has been no other reliable way to AP as this for me and the practice has multiple benefits depending on how devoted you are to the practice.
That being said I am still struggling with "phasing" and will get back to pondering Franks PDF.
One should follow the path that looks good for oneself. I read the Tibetan Book if Living and Dying and it's a nice reading but lots of thing don't match with me. But it doesn't mean it is good or bad, it's just is not good for everybody, so don't struggle with the attitude of others...all roads go to Rome.
No I don't' struggle with the attitude of others :-). I gave up recommending meditation because it sparked controversy of the "new agey" concept :roll:
And yes, I did not mean the book was good or bad. I stated the meditative practice described therein was one of the better methods that has worked for me toward achieving purposeful conscious projection. Sheesh. See what I mean? Just trying to stay on topic. I can get quite tangential at times. Sleep deprivation.
Quote from: Psilibus on May 10, 2010, 19:28:28
No I don't' struggle with the attitude of others :-). I gave up recommending meditation because it sparked controversy of the "new agey" concept :roll:
And yes, I did not mean the book was good or bad. I stated the meditative practice described therein was one of the better methods that has worked for me toward achieving purposeful conscious projection. Sheesh. See what I mean? Just trying to stay on topic. I can get quite tangential at times. Sleep deprivation.
Meditation has so many extra benefits associated with it. It's a shame that you'd come to the conclusion of not suggesting it to people anymore.
~Ryan :)
I just did a unit on mindfulness and meditation in my psychology of religious experience class.
Spiritual practice aside, mindfulness and meditation are fantastic for your health. All kinds of health benefits.
LOL. That is and has always been my point. You guys/gals crack me up. I have been practicing meditation since I was a child. Learned initially from Rosicrucian teachings. I have found the Buddhist tradition to be more simplistic yet powerful. There is such a host of exercises that can be performed it is silly that it is not taught in grade school.
If anyone is interested, I am willing to construct a post of meditative techniques which may be beneficial to newbies or current practitioners alike. Is there already a thread or sticky on this topic? I am sure I could learn as much from others as I could instruct. Franks phasing is really just a form of meditation. No flames please. Really, though, that is why I am attracted to that particular practitioner. That is why I began posting here. There is a simplistic practice with established terminology that nearly anyone can understand. I think when someone hears "phasing" they get it but don't get it at the same time. It is an intuitive process which is natural. As natural as going to sleep. As natural as creating a masturbatory fantasy (no, really, say you never did that). As natural as planning your next days activities. Varying degrees of a meditative practice that many are unaware they are doing. And all is directly related to developing the skills for "phasing" or "astral projection" or "OBE" or whatever you want to call it.
Anyone?
Sounds like a good idea, Im always open to new beneficial styles of meditation.
Do it. I'll read it.
Quote from: Psilibus on May 10, 2010, 21:07:45
Franks phasing is really just a form of meditation. No flames please. Really, though, that is why I am attracted to that particular practitioner. That is why I began posting here. There is a simplistic practice with established terminology that nearly anyone can understand. I think when someone hears "phasing" they get it but don't get it at the same time. It is an intuitive process which is natural. As natural as going to sleep. As natural as creating a masturbatory fantasy (no, really, say you never did that). As natural as planning your next days activities. Varying degrees of a meditative practice that many are unaware they are doing. And all is directly related to developing the skills for "phasing" or "astral projection" or "OBE" or whatever you want to call it.
Anyone?
yeah I have spoken on here with others about meditation and phasing generally being synonymous with each other. The amusing thing is Frank never meditated to himself. I have actually been meditating instead of phasing lately. The only difference to me being the intention desired.
I will put together a post within a couple days. Work is a killer lately, graveyard shift. I want to put out something WORTH the read. I am sure many will recognize what I describe though. I will post it in this forum as a fresh post so that it can be modified as necessary after constructive criticism.
Enjoy!
Yes Psi, I'd love to read what you have to say about meditation. :)
~Ryan
I just read this, and agree with Silly Bus: phasing and meditation are pretty much the same thing. And I would also like to read what you have to say. :)
Quote from: Stookie on May 11, 2010, 10:07:26
I just read this, and agree with Silly Bus: phasing and meditation are pretty much the same thing. And I would also like to read what you have to say. :)
They really are.
I always felt it was strange whenever Frank mentioned that he didn't really know or understand "what" meditation was... when he was so obviously a master of it. ROFL
~Ryan :)
My interpretation of what Frank wrote about meditation was that he preferred the scientific approach and did not wish to be bothered by new age gimmicks. Why would you, really, when you have a natural talent though. Plus the observations he made helped me pull through some of the doubts I have had. The way he described focus 4, I have been there. For years I have had no real way to compare my experiences. It always seemed it was nothing more than a very lucid dream. The OBE's I never doubted though - too "real". I always doubted because I had no real validation. To me, someone who has experienced something and it matches my experience, that is the validation I needed. I had read so many astral travel books and while some of it was similar, I have to admit the skeptic in me was hard to stifle.
franks profession of being a scientist is what turns me off to his stuff. it's hard to identify those who use science as a tool in conjunction with imagination (ie potential) and those who are "scientists" part of the religion known as scienceism.
Im not sure why him being a scientist would turn you off, judging by the popularity and convenience of the phasing model, I would say the critical thinking faculties he possessed were a good thing... Whats with people associating science with fundamental pseudoskepticism on this website? Look around you, there is more than enough evidence that the basic science we know is far from a religion. Maybe I should start associating people here with crazy acid taking pagan wiccan crystal wearing hippies just because they like some or one idea that is associated with the "new age" stuff...
:-D well stated sir.
draw!
I think it has something to do with "sleep paralysis and trance". :-D
See "Noetic Theory". That is science. I don't know of "scienceism" but am always interested in what I don't know.
I personally tend to favor the traditional esoteric views but that is my history. What the future holds I will have to discover!
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
Albert Einstein
scienceism is the abuse of science for gain, but more importantly it's the acceptance of scientific dogma and the denial of new potential and exploration.
I don't think Frank's point was to make it as much "scientific" as it was to dispel the mysticism surrounding it. To him, this stuff isn't mystical and magical. It's REAL and easier to attain when viewing it as something real.
But, to each his own.
Quote from: Stookie on May 25, 2010, 11:11:06
I don't think Frank's point was to make it as much "scientific" as it was to dispel the mysticism surrounding it. To him, this stuff isn't mystical and magical. It's REAL and easier to attain when viewing it as something real.
But, to each his own.
That's what I was trying to post about last night, but it never came out right... so I kept deleting it. LOL
Yes, his entire goal was to remove the mysticism attached to it and bring it into reality as something tangible and objective.
~Ryan
understood.
i too was trying to explain something but i kept deleting it.
my point is that what we have of frank here is just his after image, his "ghost". we don't have frank.
i'm skeptical of whoever i'm going to take advice from and i have some hard-held biases with science (my limitation, i would say) and since all i have is frank's ghost, it's more difficult for me to "dive in". I'm more weary of someone who's trying to take the mysticism out of something magical. I don't have a problem with the inherent method per se (i don't mind someone taking the mysticism out of it) but it makes me more cautious. Perhaps mysticism is there for a reason beyond just humans grasping to make sense of something they don't understand. I would just like to give anyone who attempts to simplify something a nice once over before I trust them, and that word "scientist" unfortunately is a red flag in my mind. I'm not saying frank or anyone else is a "scientist" (as in scienceism) I'm just saying that people like that exist and they are a potential detriment.
Quote from: personalreality on May 25, 2010, 11:29:41
I'm more weary of someone who's trying to take the mysticism out of something magical.
That's just it though...
That was his entire point.
It's not "something magical".
He was trying to point out that there's really no such thing as "magick"... and that what everyone deems "magickal" is something stuff that we are SUPPOSED to be able to do, but have simply lost the knowledge.
It's not magick.
It's natural... it's normal... it's what we're supposed to be able to do.
The only reason mysticism and mystical terminology still exists is because of the unknown... and we humans love to give extraordinary labels to things we don't understand.
~Ryan :)
I'm one who sees this all as Magick and magical all at the same time. I am also one who sees it as science. Until EVERYONE is "doing it", "it" will not be natural or normal. I understand the argument that everyone projects and that most aren't aware. I would like to stress here that there is a particular component missing in many discussion and that is specifically of "Magick". Intentional projection is a work of the will with intention and imagination and sometimes force - all are legs of the magickal "table", three of which allow it to stand. It is the intention here that separates the practitioners from what is usually considered normal or natural.
It IS what we are supposed to be able to do. There is particular work that can be done when projecting and it falls directly within the bounds OF Magick - causing change to occur according to the exercise of one's WILL. To my understanding, THAT is a close definition of Magick. I'm not talkin Harry Potter crap here either. I am referring to the "Great Work" which we each undertake daily to better understand and direct our individual place in the Universe. After reading nearly all of Frank's PDF I would conclude he was greatly successful in his Great Work, he just simply would not have referred to it as such (once again I am only supposing as I really don't know the man).
A great explanation of proper meditation would be to divulge what can actually BE accomplished with the process and so further encourage the initiate to pursue self-fulfillment.
The Astral environment is the BEST place, IMHO, to cause positive growth and change in ones life - once again, the true goal and outcome of Magick.
xanth, just because you want to make it easier for your head to accept doesn't mean its not what you don't like.
we've talked about magick before.
and that is my fundamental problem with science, they wanna take the great mystery out of existence. the fanciful and stimulating bits.
when you whittle everything down to its basic parts you lose the "ghost" that was created from their combination. plus i don't think that you can whittle everything down to it's base parts, and by trying to do so the divine is removed and you're left with inert matter.
Quote from: personalreality on May 25, 2010, 13:04:07
xanth, just because you want to make it easier for your head to accept doesn't mean its not what you don't like.
I don't do this because it makes it 'easier for my head'. I can converse with people using either set of terminology quite fine.
I do it because I feel it's right to remove the mystical connotations involved with this kind of stuff.
It's part of my evolving spiritual belief.
Quoteand that is my fundamental problem with science, they wanna take the great mystery out of existence. the fanciful and stimulating bits.
Why is that a problem?
My ultimate goal throughout all this
is to remove the "great mystery out of existence".
I don't see this as being a barrier or a problem.
At the very least, I can remove the great mystery for myself. It'll be slightly harder to remove it for others.
Quotewhen you whittle everything down to its basic parts you lose the "ghost" that was created from their combination. plus i don't think that you can whittle everything down to it's base parts, and by trying to do so the divine is removed and you're left with inert matter.
You sound like you enjoy not knowing. LoL
~Ryan :)
o the fool am i!
Xanth - You said
"My ultimate goal throughout all this is to remove the "great mystery out of existence"."
That IS Magick.
damn straight
science is magick in my opinion.
"any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magick"
Quote from: Psilibus on May 25, 2010, 14:45:42
Xanth - You said
"My ultimate goal throughout all this is to remove the "great mystery out of existence"."
That IS Magick.
You're gonna have to explain that one...
~Ryan
There is a lot of wacky and overly-complicated (and just plain wrong) stuff out there that can really mystify simple concepts. For a beginner in AP (like a lot here), Frank tried to make this as straight forward and realistic as possible. I don't think you really have to have symbolic things to get a feeling of devotion and awe (spiritual-ness), or whatever-feeling that a particular ritual is attempting to invoke.
But if someone is more comfortable with rituals and invoking and evoking, go for it. I personally don't like the way I look in a hooded-robe.
Quote from: Stookie on May 25, 2010, 15:14:13
There is a lot of wacky and overly-complicated (and just plain wrong) stuff out there that can really mystify simple concepts. For a beginner in AP (like a lot here), Frank tried to make this as straight forward and realistic as possible. I don't think you really have to have symbolic things to get a feeling of devotion and awe (spiritual-ness), or whatever-feeling that a particular ritual is attempting to invoke.
But if someone is more comfortable with rituals and invoking and evoking, go for it. I personally don't like the way I look in a hooded-robe.
How do you look in silk stockings and a kimono?
Sorry but once again someone is right AND wrong at the same time. Stookie, Astral Projection IS a ritual. It has really nothing and EVERYTHING to do with invoking and evoking. That in its very nature IS the process. I'm really surprised you would say such a thing. I have read many of your posts and wouldn't have thought it of you.
Xanth, like I said, we're not talking Harry Potter here. Sorry, no insult intended but if you look up "Magick", spelled with a "K" at the end and not "magic", without the "K", you will find definitions that might suit your taste or at least explain what I am talking about.
Astral projection is more than flyin around trippin out on chit, talkin to strange multicolored and sparkly folk who don't know what your meaning half the time. I know you know that. There are actual feats of accomplishment that impact this physical plane which have profound benefits. Meaning - you can learn and grow spiritually AND as a human being at the same time from the experiences you have through "phasing" or "meditation" or "OBE" or "traveling", etc. You can literally impact your future and the future of your loved ones by learning to manipulate the forces of the astral. It isn't DisneyLand for Gadz sake. There is purpose for the gift to travel. That IS the Magick. It has nothing at all to do with hooded persons. It has nothing to do with secret societies. It has nothing to do with the "Occult" except that is exactly what it is for the majority of society - OCCULT (hidden).
Why does semantics come to play in so many discussions when we all essentially agree? Different sources, same destination.
I fully understand what you mean Psi.
I just wholeheartedly disagree with it. :)
It's the idea that astral projection is "magick", that I want to dispel.
Nothing in this world is "magickal"... it's just not known how some things work.
I can totally, and completely separate "magick" from all this stuff we do.
~Ryan :)
LOL. Well good, we do both understand each other. It is unfortunate you will miss out on the "magic" of it. But we all have our paths. As I pointed out about my opinion of Frank, some just aren't aware of what their Great Work is. I will not make assumptions about you Xanth. Stick to your guns but despite your stance, "all this stuff we do" IS Magick. It can and never will be anything else.
I won't speak of it again unless asked. Too bad. I will try to understand your viewpoint better though. :wink:
Quote from: Psilibus on May 25, 2010, 15:42:38
Sorry but once again someone is right AND wrong at the same time. Stookie, Astral Projection IS a ritual. It has really nothing and EVERYTHING to do with invoking and evoking. That in its very nature IS the process. I'm really surprised you would say such a thing. I have read many of your posts and wouldn't have thought it of you.
Ok, I suppose I came off kind of cocky, which wasn't my intention. I was trying to relate what Frank's methods are all about.
I don't mean to knock any methods, because like you said, it's different paths to the same thing. But I think the word I'm looking for is "practical". I believe that's what Frank was getting at, is making AP a very practical thing, especially for people that are turned off by magick and new-agey things. And I am a very practical, simple person, which is why his methods worked so well for me.
While external "ritual" things like candles, incense, places, times, incantations, positions, crystals, etc, have their place for certain folks, Frank found them unnecessary (myself as well). You have it all within yourself, and can do it without anything else. AP can be a practical thing.
That doesn't mean it can't still have a "magical" air about it. It can still rip everything you know about reality into pieces and give you a fresh, awe-inspiring change of perspective. What you experience is the major importance, not the method of attaining it.
Check out a book call "Instant Magick" by Chris Penzcak
It's all about performing ritual in your mind alone. Teaches you to create astral versions of all your supplies and work the ritual through use of "imagination" or dreaming (OBE or Visionary State).
Quote from: Stookie on May 26, 2010, 11:28:52
OK, I suppose I came off kind of cocky, which wasn't my intention. I was trying to relate what Frank's methods are all about.
I don't mean to knock any methods, because like you said, it's different paths to the same thing. But I think the word I'm looking for is "practical". I believe that's what Frank was getting at, is making AP a very practical thing, especially for people that are turned off by magick and new-agey things. And I am a very practical, simple person, which is why his methods worked so well for me.
While external "ritual" things like candles, incense, places, times, incantations, positions, crystals, etc, have their place for certain folks, Frank found them unnecessary (myself as well). You have it all within yourself, and can do it without anything else. AP can be a practical thing.
That doesn't mean it can't still have a "magical" air about it. It can still rip everything you know about reality into pieces and give you a fresh, awe-inspiring change of perspective. What you experience is the major importance, not the method of attaining it.
Nah, didn't find you "cocky", not really. I actually appreciate cocky. My wife accuses me of that all the time.
Your right. Practical is where it's at. The "external "ritual" things like candles, incense, places, times, incantations, positions, crystals, etc" comment tells me something though. I'm not talking about Wicca, not that there's anything wrong with that. Never used any gadgetry or gimmickry in my life. Don't need too. And, that wasn't my point anyway. I think perhaps personalreality may understand where I'm coming from. Astral projection IS "all about performing ritual in your mind alone". There is just so much more possibilities and WORK that can be of benefit and there are traditions which have been around for a long time that are available to accompany the process. I'm not talking so much to the major posters here who apparently know their stuff, Stookie of course included. Actually I was hopin for more about my kimono comment than anything else at this point. :wink:
PR - heard of "Instant Magick", never read it. I'll take a look. I'm a Golden Dawn die hard. You know, the Crowley crowd. That is how I was raised. It has benefited me in more ways than I could explain. I've always seen some of the more recent (1970's and on) AP writers as lacking in true "practicality" though. Methods are taught and exploration is encouraged. It all seems more like enticement though. There is the "practical" side which is seldom addressed. That "ritual" is what allows you access to experiences unlike talking to "ghosts". How you can cause wondrous change in your life. Change that impacts your distant future(s).
All this starts though with proper meditation. That is the point of this thread, isn't it? Proper meditation. As I posited earlier -
"A great explanation of proper meditation would be to divulge what can actually BE accomplished with the process and so further encourage the initiate to pursue self-fulfillment."
PS> I think I convinced my mother to become a member and post. LOL... :evil:
QuoteThat is the point of this thread, isn't it? Proper meditation.
Here's a quote from Krishnamurti on meditation:
"You have to find out what meditation is. It is a most extraordinary thing to know what meditation is – not how to meditate, not the system, not the practice, but the content of meditation. To be in the meditative mood and to go into that meditation requires a very generous mind, a mind that has no border, a mind that is not caught in the process of time. A mind that has not committed itself to anything, to any activity, to any thought, to any dogma, to any family, to a name – it is only such a mind that can be generous; and it is only such a mind that can begin to understand the depth, the beauty and the extraordinary loveliness of meditation."
Makes me want to go meditate.
Yes Stookie, I like that. It is well put. I have quite a few books which discuss meditation, all from different religious and philosophical perspectives. They all agree.
'Tis a thing of beauty, the mind, when unfettered by daily trappings and clutter. It pushes forth like a golden blossom from the fertile source, shading the ego in its brilliance. The light of day is dimmed as illumination dawns across the endless horizons. - JMK