Using telekinesis while APing?

[Slix]

Point A)  What if the person is a known killer and has made death threats to you or your family and also if you go to the police your life would be in danger from his cohorts.

if you know that said person is a murderer then just be prepared to protect yourself when/if anything happens. if you have to kill them in order to protect yourself or family when it happens then that's just the way it has to be, you don't have much choice.

Point B) What if you are attacking in defense by taking preemptive offensive measures.

This probably depends on when you would strike, A preemptive offensive is NOT defensive, it is always offensive. If said murderer were to, say for example, break into your house with clear intention of doing harm to you or your family then OK, maybe a preemptive strike may be acceptable considering you're in imminent danger. however to go to the guy's house and plug him or whatever would still be classed as murder.

Point C) What if you are in danger but not immediate danger and you decide to take action during the safest time.

i suppose it again really depends when that time is. if he's not looking to harm you at that time then it'd still be classed as murder.


there's no way you could pull off killing someone whilst APing when you're in immediate danger, you wouldn't have the time, nor would you be able to relax enough in order to AP anyways. your only choices would be physical defence (manslaughter), physical offence (murder), astral offence if it's even possible (murder, although i doubt anyone could ever link you to it), risking going to the police about it or ignoring him and hoping for the best.

If you kill a killer maybe there would be less killing so therefore violence is a successful method of decreasing violence. Is that karma?

If you kill a killer there wouldn't be any less killing, as not only have you probably just made up for how many people they'll have killed, but chances are you'll have ticked off his/her friends/cohorts, and they'll come out for revenge. if anything it'd increase the amount of killing, unless of course, you were someone like batman who instilled fear into the hearts of would-be perps, then there's a chance it'd work. and no thats not karma, karma is like, say, if you helped 10,000 orphans by donating $50k to whatever charity, then the next Saturday you win the national lottery, or if you cheat in an important competition but get hit by a car later that year. it's like, umm, i don't know, when you always hear about how the bad guy will always eventually get what he deserves, though it works both ways.

anyways, make your own decision, but be prepared to live with whatever consequences for the rest of your physical life, however long (or short) it may be.

[pulsexx]

i suppose it again really depends when that time is. if he's not looking to harm you at that time then it'd still be classed as murder.

What if it was the night before he was planning to attack you?

Also I would think some people would be able to AP in a serious situation because there are cases of people being able to astral project at will (a few seconds or a strong wish to leave the body.)

[pulsexx]

I can't believe people actually gave me negative karma for simply talking about saving people's lives. It's not like I made offensive posts or insulted anyone. Like are you kidding me?

[Slix]

What if it was the night before he was planning to attack you?

Also I would think some people would be able to AP in a serious situation because there are cases of people being able to astral project at will (a few seconds or a strong wish to leave the body.)

if it was the night before, when he may be planning to kill you then you are not in imminent danger as of yet, so that would still be classed as murder.

sure there are those that can project at will, the rare few, but they still usually do it whilst relaxed, and unless you can keep your cool when someone is breaking down your door with a fire axe then i doubt you'll be able to pull it off. you'd probably be better off staying in the physical, where you at least know you can defend yourself. even if you did manage to OBE in such a situation, chances are you'll not be able to concentrate well enough to pull off something like that, if it's even possible. no, just stick with your own fire axe, you'll have a much better chance of surviving if you stick to the physical plane to defend yourself.

btw im assuming someone gave u neg karma for talking about killing someone. sure, you may be saving the life of your family, or countless thousands, but never the less, killing someone is still bad however well you coat it with icing and chocolate sprinkles, and planning to kill someone is, probably in some respects, even worse.

[Alfera]

Possible of course but Are you able to stop a heart while not APing?
if people can be healed then they can be harmed/killed using your abilities
but how are you planning to do that?
lets say you found your guide you say "take me to (insert a name here)"
maybe your guide will agree with you and take you there and watch you kill the person
i think it wont be easy without a guide
or maybe you can convince him to do the killing for you haha
i really believe earth will be a better place if some people depart from this world

and you can fulfill the contracts , steal information you will be rich in no time!!
but this wont be easy :d
everything is possible because there is nothing at all
quantum physics proved that nothing is real
see for yourself

http://books.google.com.tr/books?id=UzEWX9nnXSkC&pg=PA7&lpg=PA7&dq=quantum+physics+possibility+wave&source=bl&ots=VN7NKgVJVB&s

ig=BJt9rm7prHFRz3JjfMqU5zq5j4k&hl=tr&ei=S0RiSomPK6HimgOCyf2bDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4

chapter 7 page 47

reading page 50 highly recommended

everything is wave

wave of possibility!!!

so

nothing is real

many of you think that luck , chance doesnt exist

that is true

everything is a creation of mind

and controlled by mind

every part of everything can be changed by mind from the smallest to biggest

that is why telekinesis and other abilities are possible

mind is unstoppable because mind is free of the bounds of this universe

thats what i think

[interception]

everything is possible because there is nothing at all

Nothing? Everything? That statement makes no sense to me.

quantum physics proved that nothing is real

Ah, the nothing is real thing again. Sorry, but the theories of quantum physics has also been used to "prove" the existence of an omnipotent being...  so what does that tell ya.

nothing is real

Everything is real?  Semantics!

everything is a creation of mind

On this point I do agree.

mind is unstoppable because mind is free of the bounds of this universe

Well, while the mind is incarnated here in the physical it is not actually unbound, and thank goodness for that. The rules of the game are there for a reason. You can't have rhinos running around on a preschool playground now can you? No.
At a much higher level of being however, like the oversoul or higher self or whatever-you-want-to-call-it level, there I believe would be no bounds, yes.

This is what I believe.

[CFTraveler]

I can't believe people actually gave me negative karma for simply talking about saving people's lives. It's not like I made offensive posts or insulted anyone. Like are you kidding me?

I didn't, just for the record- anyway, you still haven't answered my question- how would you know what someone is going to grow up to be?  Would you claim omniscience?
Here's the thing:
If you are an omniscient being, and can somehow know what someone is going to grow up to be, that would mean there is such a thing as predestination.  And if predestination is true, then the people this person is going to kill are supposed to die.  If you are not an omniscient being, and if there is no predestination, you can't know what this person is going to do when they grow up.
So, let's say there were a way to give you the power to let you kill someone (I hope to God there isn't), why do you think it would be ok for you to kill someone just because you think they are going to grow up to be a murderer?

[pulsexx]

I didn't, just for the record- anyway, you still haven't answered my question- how would you know what someone is going to grow up to be?  Would you claim omniscience?
Here's the thing:
If you are an omniscient being, and can somehow know what someone is going to grow up to be, that would mean there is such a thing as predestination.  And if predestination is true, then the people this person is going to kill are supposed to die.  If you are not an omniscient being, and if there is no predestination, you can't know what this person is going to do when they grow up.
So, let's say there were a way to give you the power to let you kill someone (I hope to God there isn't), why do you think it would be ok for you to kill someone just because you think they are going to grow up to be a murderer?

They killed someoen before and said they would do it again. It's seems rather obvious that logically they would kill again.

[pulsexx]

if it was the night before, when he may be planning to kill you then you are not in imminent danger as of yet, so that would still be classed as murder.

sure there are those that can project at will, the rare few, but they still usually do it whilst relaxed, and unless you can keep your cool when someone is breaking down your door with a fire axe then i doubt you'll be able to pull it off. you'd probably be better off staying in the physical, where you at least know you can defend yourself. even if you did manage to OBE in such a situation, chances are you'll not be able to concentrate well enough to pull off something like that, if it's even possible. no, just stick with your own fire axe, you'll have a much better chance of surviving if you stick to the physical plane to defend yourself.

btw im assuming someone gave u neg karma for talking about killing someone. sure, you may be saving the life of your family, or countless thousands, but never the less, killing someone is still bad however well you coat it with icing and chocolate sprinkles, and planning to kill someone is, probably in some respects, even worse.

You're just using the American Judicial's view point of murder though which is far from infallible, it's just the most appropriate for most legal cases. Mostly because if they made it alright to say, kill someone who said he was going to kill you then there would be a lot more murders where people could just make up stories about their victim saying that "they threatend me" etc... But this isn't to say that in certain scenarios killing someone before they can kill you isn't the right thing to do if the other person is the aggressor and is putting your life in danger and you are left with no other option beside terminating their life discretely.

The American justice system also says that abortion isn't murder even though it is clearly the killing of a human organism with a unique genetic code that only human beings have.

It just depends on how you view right and wrong. A lot of these idiots that say murder is always wrong would kill someone that was trying to kill them though, or they would die, rather stupidly I might add. Have you ever heard of survival of the fittest? Because of your morale stances you failed at something creatures with much less intellect are able to succeed at.

[Liminalitus]

You're just using the American Judicial's view point of murder though which is far from infallible, it's just the most appropriate for most legal cases. Mostly because if they made it alright to say, kill someone who said he was going to kill you then there would be a lot more murders where people could just make up stories about their victim saying that "they threatend me" etc... But this isn't to say that in certain scenarios killing someone before they can kill you isn't the right thing to do if the other person is the aggressor and is putting your life in danger and you are left with no other option beside terminating their life discretely.

The American justice system also says that abortion isn't murder even though it is clearly the killing of a human organism with a unique genetic code that only human beings have.

It just depends on how you view right and wrong. A lot of these idiots that say murder is always wrong would kill someone that was trying to kill them though, or they would die, rather stupidly I might add. Have you ever heard of survival of the fittest? Because of your morale stances you failed at something creatures with much less intellect are able to succeed at.

Alright. You know, I shouldn't even be typing this because you've got the mentality of a 14-year-old, but you are real ignorant. You do realize that, in our society, intelligence and intellect ARE the things that keep us alive? You do realize that we aren't f****** primates with giant clubs bashing in each other's brains anyore, right? Or is that how YOU would like it? Man, it's people like you that are so bloody headstrong that run away with their tail in between their legs when the crap hits the fan.

Now, let's say you do get the abilities to kill somebody in astral. Trust me, weak people like you will wilt under the guilt. It isn't like your precious video games or movies, or epic tales of Russians using Mind Power during the days of the Iron Curtain. A very good friend of mine is an ex-commando of a military branch I will not name. Let me tell you something: this man is a very tough soldier, and there are times in his life where he starts crying like a baby. You want to rip people's hearts out; all my friend did was simply gun down terrorists in the middle east. But he's aware of how many families he has single-handedly ripped apart, how many little boys and girls he left without a father, without a brother, without an uncle, without a husband. He's aware of how many wives he sent to bed that night sleeping alone in a bed made for two. You think killing, even if trying to prevent a "future murderer" (which is still a load of bullocks, all the people's comments about karma are absolutely right), is righteous? You think taking away precious human life . . 9 months in the womb, the very first footsteps, the first words muttered, all the grades in gradeschool, the countless number of life lessons learned, the feelings of love, joy, anger, lust . . is easily explainable? Sorry, you can't tell the future, nobody can, so your Future Manson clause is illogical.

Ah, the nothing is real thing again. Sorry, but the theories of quantum physics has also been used to "prove" the existence of an omnipotent being...  so what does that tell ya.

weird I can edit other people's post?

oops sorry I was trying to reply and edited your post.

:-]

[KRDecade]

I can't believe people actually gave me negative karma for simply talking about saving people's lives. It's not like I made offensive posts or insulted anyone. Like are you kidding me?

SAVING people? You're talking about murdering people!

I sincerely doubt there will ever be a situation where you find out about a murder that's going to occur, and eventually have a chance to murder the killer. And even in the 1/1000000000 situation, why do you have to murder the killer? Nobody has the right to murder anyone.

Sure, it's different if someone is standing in front of you with a gun, and you happen to have a gun to defend yourself with. I could sympathize with that, I'd agree with that. But you're referring to a situation that's entirely different!

It's the exact same as murder. There's no difference. It doesn't matter if you're stopping a killer, because if you actually do, by killing them, then you're the murderer, and you're no different.

If someone ever had the ability to find out about murders before they were going to happen, I would say try to stop in it real-life, or at least call the police or something - but that's even a ridiculous stretch because it would never be possible.

Still, I feel retarded even explaining this to you. It's embarrassing.

But you're asking HOW and not WHY.

Is it possible? No, it's not possible.

Is Pulsexx retarded?


Why, yes - yes he is.

[zareste]

The way you live your life raises and lowers the amount of death and misery on the planet. For example the people responsible for the most destruction tend to live docile lives, never raising a weapon, blending in with the crowd, feeling guiltless, telling themselves their actions have no effect on the world.

Then they wonder why they have to suffer.

These religious and political technicalities are a way of affirming - to yourself - that there is some higher power directing the world and you are not at fault for any of it.

[interception]

You're just using the American Judicial's view point of murder though which is far from infallible, it's just the most appropriate for most legal cases. Mostly because if they made it alright to say, kill someone who said he was going to kill you then there would be a lot more murders where people could just make up stories about their victim saying that "they threatend me" etc... But this isn't to say that in certain scenarios killing someone before they can kill you isn't the right thing to do if the other person is the aggressor and is putting your life in danger and you are left with no other option beside terminating their life discretely.

The American justice system also says that abortion isn't murder even though it is clearly the killing of a human organism with a unique genetic code that only human beings have.

It just depends on how you view right and wrong. A lot of these idiots that say murder is always wrong would kill someone that was trying to kill them though, or they would die, rather stupidly I might add. Have you ever heard of survival of the fittest? Because of your morale stances you failed at something creatures with much less intellect are able to succeed at.

You know off course that there is a clear difference between intentionally taking a life and accidentally taking a life. Which are we talking about again?
The suppression of a hostile situation and subsequent rehabilitation is always better than death. Humans should not play judge, jury and executioner - it never ends well.

Off course we have a moral system! We are after all supposed to be a bit more advanced than animals. Why even bring that into this discussion? The Survival of the fittest system fits into the animal world, but it is an extremely selfish system that, when applied to human society ends only in misery and death. Humans are supposed to be above that sort of thing, but I'm not sure we have been successful in rising above that yet... just look at the way certain mega corporations behave for example.

[interception]

Now, let's say you do get the abilities to kill somebody in astral. Trust me, weak people like you will wilt under the guilt. It isn't like your precious video games or movies, or epic tales of Russians using Mind Power during the days of the Iron Curtain. A very good friend of mine is an ex-commando of a military branch I will not name. Let me tell you something: this man is a very tough soldier, and there are times in his life where he starts crying like a baby. You want to rip people's hearts out; all my friend did was simply gun down terrorists in the middle east. But he's aware of how many families he has single-handedly ripped apart, how many little boys and girls he left without a father, without a brother, without an uncle, without a husband. He's aware of how many wives he sent to bed that night sleeping alone in a bed made for two. You think killing, even if trying to prevent a "future murderer" (which is still a load of bullocks, all the people's comments about karma are absolutely right), is righteous? You think taking away precious human life . . 9 months in the womb, the very first footsteps, the first words muttered, all the grades in gradeschool, the countless number of life lessons learned, the feelings of love, joy, anger, lust . . is easily explainable? Sorry, you can't tell the future, nobody can, so your Future Manson clause is illogical.

Thank you Liminalitus. I did mention that one will have to deal with consequences of killing, but you laid it out nice and hard. It will catch up with you, which might sound cliched, but it is the truth. It is a dark path to walk even with the purest of intentions.

[interception]

Getting back to the origin of this rather messy discussion.

It is definitely possible to project to a friends location.

You might be able to lift the astral form of another being, but you will be limited in throwing him/her around, unless they let you. Reality in the astral very much depends on your state of mind and intentions, much more so than in the physical. If you start throwing people around they should easily be able to move out of your perceived objective reality leaving you holding nothing or maybe even a copy of your target, created by your mind. With violent tendencies and energies flowing through you it will be easy to fall into the astral "Alice in wonderland" effect.
You might also attract the attention of certain... undesirable denizens. 

You want to rip out the physical heart while in the astral? I do not think that will be possible at all. One's effect on the physical is generally very limited. If you can successfully do a validation experiment with a physical playing card, you should consider that a major breakthrough.

[zareste]

You can kill people from the astral, but harming organs is not the most practical way, even if you can do it. I only have a few hints as to how it's done, but I'm not going into details because the people on this board are already dangerous enough.

[CFTraveler]

I'd say that there are lots of ways to stop someone you absolutely know are going to harm another human being, and they don't necessarily involve murder.  However, maybe in Px's situation maybe he'd better try to learn it through AP.  This at least should keep him out of trouble long enough.

[Liminalitus]

Thank you Liminalitus. I did mention that one will have to deal with consequences of killing, but you laid it out nice and hard. It will catch up with you, which might sound cliched, but it is the truth. It is a dark path to walk even with the purest of intentions.

No worries, mate.

[Alfera]

Ah, the nothing is real thing again. Sorry, but the theories of quantum physics has also been used to "prove" the existence of an omnipotent being...  so what does that tell ya.

i tell you everything is wave of possibility

maybe these waves are controlled by an omnipotent being

quantum can be used to prove existence of an omnipotent being

why both wave of possiblity and omnipotent being theories cant be true? i dont understand

if you tried to say quantum physics is lunatic then what are you doing here in metaphysics forum

quantum physics is not like metaphysics you cant dismiss it , because scientists come up with something when they have researched and have proof

maybe that omnipotent being is a mind

and created everything

[interception]

if you tried to say quantum physics is lunatic then what are you doing here in metaphysics forum

I was trying to illustrate how people use quantum theories to prove all sorts of odd things.

Too many of the stuff of reality are still hidden from our human senses and while I find quantum mechanics very interesting, I cannot help but be reminded that we humans have only a very small piece of a very, very large puzzle.

Getting wrapped up in semantic games then, does not help anybody understand anything any better. Like saying: nothing is real. It is meaningless to say such a thing, to me anyway, so no offense to you Alfera. 

[pulsexx]

Alright. You know, I shouldn't even be typing this because you've got the mentality of a 14-year-old, but you are real ignorant. You do realize that, in our society, intelligence and intellect ARE the things that keep us alive? You do realize that we aren't f****** primates with giant clubs bashing in each other's brains anyore, right? Or is that how YOU would like it? Man, it's people like you that are so bloody headstrong that run away with their tail in between their legs when the crap hits the fan.

Now, let's say you do get the abilities to kill somebody in astral. Trust me, weak people like you will wilt under the guilt. It isn't like your precious video games or movies, or epic tales of Russians using Mind Power during the days of the Iron Curtain. A very good friend of mine is an ex-commando of a military branch I will not name. Let me tell you something: this man is a very tough soldier, and there are times in his life where he starts crying like a baby. You want to rip people's hearts out; all my friend did was simply gun down terrorists in the middle east. But he's aware of how many families he has single-handedly ripped apart, how many little boys and girls he left without a father, without a brother, without an uncle, without a husband. He's aware of how many wives he sent to bed that night sleeping alone in a bed made for two. You think killing, even if trying to prevent a "future murderer" (which is still a load of bullocks, all the people's comments about karma are absolutely right), is righteous? You think taking away precious human life . . 9 months in the womb, the very first footsteps, the first words muttered, all the grades in gradeschool, the countless number of life lessons learned, the feelings of love, joy, anger, lust . . is easily explainable? Sorry, you can't tell the future, nobody can, so your Future Manson clause is illogical.

weird I can edit other people's post?

oops sorry I was trying to reply and edited your post.

:-]

Did you even read what I wrote? Calling my mental stability into question is a little childish and beside the point. All that matters is that morality is entirely subjective (created by OUR MINDS) and that the America's Criminal Court system is meant to give a structure that produces quick results to massive amounts of trials.

IF A MAN SAYS HE IS GOING TO KILL YOU AND HE PLANS ON FINDING YOU AND TELLS YOU IF YOU TELL THE COPS THEN EVERYONE YOU KNOW WILL BE IN DANGER THEN WHAT DO YOU DO? LAY DOWN AND DIE LIKE A COWARD?

Stop preaching to me about personal opinions on morality and especially stop calling me stupid when you woudn't even defend yourself against a killer because "it's wrong to murder people."

lol. Yeah, that's right, I lol'd at you.

And also this has NOTHING to do with using powers while astral projecting, which is much more important than your beliefs in how wrong murder is.

[pulsexx]

SAVING people? You're talking about murdering people!

I sincerely doubt there will ever be a situation where you find out about a murder that's going to occur, and eventually have a chance to murder the killer. And even in the 1/1000000000 situation, why do you have to murder the killer? Nobody has the right to murder anyone.

Sure, it's different if someone is standing in front of you with a gun, and you happen to have a gun to defend yourself with. I could sympathize with that, I'd agree with that. But you're referring to a situation that's entirely different!

It's the exact same as murder. There's no difference. It doesn't matter if you're stopping a killer, because if you actually do, by killing them, then you're the murderer, and you're no different.

If someone ever had the ability to find out about murders before they were going to happen, I would say try to stop in it real-life, or at least call the police or something - but that's even a ridiculous stretch because it would never be possible.

Still, I feel retarded even explaining this to you. It's embarrassing.

But you're asking HOW and not WHY.

Is it possible? No, it's not possible.

Is Pulsexx retarded?


Why, yes - yes he is.

I get the feeling a lot of the members on this board are below the age of 13.

Alright, I'll explain this by putting my self in the shoes of the killer. Let's say I threatened to kill someone and then they surprised me and killed me. They just didn't murder me, I threatened them and then they retaliated. If they just killed me out of nowhere THEN it would be murder.

[pulsexx]

Possible of course but Are you able to stop a heart while not APing?
if people can be healed then they can be harmed/killed using your abilities
but how are you planning to do that?
lets say you found your guide you say "take me to (insert a name here)"
maybe your guide will agree with you and take you there and watch you kill the person
i think it wont be easy without a guide
or maybe you can convince him to do the killing for you haha
i really believe earth will be a better place if some people depart from this world

and you can fulfill the contracts , steal information you will be rich in no time!!
but this wont be easy :d
everything is possible because there is nothing at all
quantum physics proved that nothing is real
see for yourself

http://books.google.com.tr/books?id=UzEWX9nnXSkC&pg=PA7&lpg=PA7&dq=quantum+physics+possibility+wave&source=bl&ots=VN7NKgVJVB&s

ig=BJt9rm7prHFRz3JjfMqU5zq5j4k&hl=tr&ei=S0RiSomPK6HimgOCyf2bDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4

chapter 7 page 47

reading page 50 highly recommended

everything is wave

wave of possibility!!!

so

nothing is real

many of you think that luck , chance doesnt exist

that is true

everything is a creation of mind

and controlled by mind

every part of everything can be changed by mind from the smallest to biggest

that is why telekinesis and other abilities are possible

mind is unstoppable because mind is free of the bounds of this universe

thats what i think

There doesn't have to be an observer present to collapse the wave of probabilities, just a measurement. They could set it up an experiment so that a machine can do it all for them and they can come and check on it later.  I think you're confused by quantum mechanics.

It's not like "if I stop looking at this electron it turns into a wave that is everywhere" it's more like "before I apply this method of measurement the electron is a probability pattern of positions."

[Liminalitus]

Did you even read what I wrote? Calling my mental stability into question is a little childish and beside the point. All that matters is that morality is entirely subjective (created by OUR MINDS) and that the America's Criminal Court system is meant to give a structure that produces quick results to massive amounts of trials.

IF A MAN SAYS HE IS GOING TO KILL YOU AND HE PLANS ON FINDING YOU AND TELLS YOU IF YOU TELL THE COPS THEN EVERYONE YOU KNOW WILL BE IN DANGER THEN WHAT DO YOU DO? LAY DOWN AND DIE LIKE A COWARD?

Stop preaching to me about personal opinions on morality and especially stop calling me stupid when you woudn't even defend yourself against a killer because "it's wrong to murder people."

lol. Yeah, that's right, I lol'd at you.

And also this has NOTHING to do with using powers while astral projecting, which is much more important than your beliefs in how wrong murder is.

You see, your argument is invalid, because I have protected myself against a killer in the past. You initiated the question of killing, and you never specified defensively until we all slammed you.

lol. Yeah, that's right, I lol'd at you.

A couple posts later . .

I get the feeling a lot of the members on this board are below the age of 13.

. . . Really now? All I have to say on that.

[Liminalitus]

Eh, what the hell. Your arguments are invalid and we just end up arguing against you so we might as well just answer your question and put all this behind us. At least you're real persistent.


I don't think you can hurt somebody from the astral. Because the astral operates at a completely different frequency than the physical, it won't work. If your favorite radio station is at 106.5 FM, you won't hear it if you're tuned in at 1100 AM. As for communication? A friend of mine contacts people across the US, and says at best, they remember about 85% of the conversations they have. That's with a person who regularly practices dream recall. It all depends on the person's ability to remember visions from altered states, and the skill of the projector.