Concentration/Silence: subvocal vs. thoughtstream

[kifyre]

Now that I've got the basics down, more or less, here's what I do:
(note, i'm still improving the basics, but i'm doing this too)

1. Create an image in mind (a triangle, for example)
2. Firmly hold down subvocalization. (or i sometimes count, as above)
3. Firmly maintain (or create in each moment) the triangle, to the exclusion of all else.

Experiment with adding some *mental muscle*. Make sure you keep breathing and don't tense any real muscles.

So that's a form of meditation. Maybe it can be modified slightly for projection.

All the best,

Mark

[Fat_Turkey]

Yes I sort of agree...can't say completely, though (don't ask). I first started to do mind-quieting/silencing when I read through PPSD and read that it is an important skill in core image removal. But he said that we have to silence internal dialogue, or what the Easterns call Monkey Mind. I think this is the subvocolasition you're talking about.

Question: Does the subvocal part of your mind remind you of constant things? Is it like a voice in your head when you're reading a message somebody posts in a chat room? If so I'm right [|)]

Well it is easier to practice when you know what to practice with.

It's not that practice makes perfect, but perfect practice results in stronger progress.

Later
-FT

[kifyre]

quote:Originally posted by Fat_Turkey

Yes I sort of agree...can't say completely, though (don't ask). I first started to do mind-quieting/silencing when I read through PPSD and read that it is an important skill in core image removal. But he said that we have to silence internal dialogue, or what the Easterns call Monkey Mind. I think this is the subvocolasition you're talking about.

Question: Does the subvocal part of your mind remind you of constant things? Is it like a voice in your head when you're reading a message somebody posts in a chat room? If so I'm right [|)]

Well it is easier to practice when you know what to practice with.

It's not that practice makes perfect, but perfect practice results in stronger progress.

Later
-FT

Yes, monkey mind, reminders, and IM's--I think it's all subvocalization. I don't know for sure, I'm still playing with this idea, but it seems helpful. It might not be totally clear cut.

Try reading IM's while counting (whispering, mouthing) or saying a vowel sound like "eeeeeeee." See if it feels different from reading them straight like someone's speaking to you.

Mark

[Fat_Turkey]

Hmm well that would make sense why some people say that silencing your entire mind or stopping all thought is impossible and not a wise thing to try. Thanks for this idea - this'll make my approach to mind-clearing excercises 10x easier.

Later
-FT

[kifyre]

quote:Originally posted by Fat_Turkey

Hmm well that would make sense why some people say that silencing your entire mind or stopping all thought is impossible and not a wise thing to try. Thanks for this idea - this'll make my approach to mind-clearing excercises 10x easier.

Later
-FT

You're welcome!

I believe complete cessation of thought is possible. Ken Wilber purportedly demonstrates this ability, flatlining an EKG (except for delta waves), in his book/journal "One Taste."

Mark

[kifyre]

[this post orginally made here:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3879&whichpage=2]

There's whole bunch of things going on in your mind at any one time--what are you trying to silence?

As far as I can tell, here's what most people have:

1) thought stream
2) subvocalization
3) emotion/sensation

As far as I can tell, what most of us are working on is silencing subvocalization. This is the little voice in your head; it's not *you*. This is most people's "reading voice." When most people read, their throat, lips, and tongue make micromovements different from speaking only in magnitude. Fast readers utilize the thought stream--from eyes directly to mind.

I believe that projection requires silencing subvocalization and leaving the thought stream alone (or perhaps focusing the thought stream). (Subvocalization involves micromuscle movement, therefore utilizing the body, therefore locking you in the body.) I forget the exact quote, but Frank has mentioned that his mind is "clear but very active" when he is projecting. (Again I forget the exact words, but that's the gist I picked up...)

How can you separate out what's what in your head? The best way is to practice reading with the thought-stream alone. Then it's easier to differentiate this activity from subvocalization. Count rapidly 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10... out loud *while reading*. Quickly, you'll be able to read while counting. Now, count silently to yourself *while reading*. If it's light material, like a novel, the words will flash by faster and eventually you'll be able to bring in imagery, etc. This is utilizing the thought stream.

I've just begun practicing this; I still count a lot. But all you need is to get the gist of it, the feel of subvocalization. Then you can *turn it off* -- this is the silencing -- much easier when you know what you're silencing. (Still takes practice!)

Subvocalization feels more linear, one word after another like speaking. Thoughtstream is --bam!-- whole sentence/concept at once. When you're trying to silence the mind, and a full concept rips by, that's probably the thoughtstream. And then when you think, "dammit!" to yourself, you've just subvocalized.

Now, on to speculation. You've only got one mouth, but your thought stream can probably subdivide (this is multitasking, letting your mind wander, etc). So, once you turn off subvocalization, you need to focus your mind, bring all the separate streams together. Probably maintaining an image, maintaining localized body awareness, or concentrating on a sensation is best. (If you use a mantra, you risk activating subvocalization!) Another thing to focus on? Projecting! This is concentration, bringing your mind together to one point, one task.

(The difference between subvocalization and the thoughtstream was made clear to me from: http://www.trans4mind.com/speed_reading/)

Let me know what you think, people!

All the best,

Mark