What do I do after this...

[BlackAndWhite]

Hello everyone

It's been a while, I remember asking questions on the Astral months ago on here. I've been trying to project for a while now but the furthest I've reached is through reaching Bedeekin's method, which IMO, is really frickin hard on waking up through a 1-2 hour nap. However, today, while lying down and trying to project, I did feel my body paralyzed at one point, but I knew it wasn't the "Sleep paralysis" which we all know about. I mean I know that I can move, and it also occurs once in a while when trying to project, at times I do feel like I'm running out of breath when I try to longer the process. One thing I did notice though, is that at one point today, I can swear that I could see a visual of the ceiling even though obviously my eyes were closed, but it was really interesting and nice and I kind of regret opening my eyes, there's always that fear which angers me at times.  

All in all, does anyone have any experiences similar to these, and can you give me any more tips that might help me project

Thank you,
Eddy

[personalreality]

don't try too hard.  by this i mean don't over analyze.  in fact, don't think at all if you can.

that was my big problem.  i was always too excited and i was anticipating the experience way too much.  it pretty much ensured failure.

you gotta let go as much as possible, which i difficult i know.  but spend some time meditating (i do it as i'm going to sleep at night, which is probably creating a bad habit, but oh well) and practicing clearing your mind.

the state of mind you want to be in is described best (imo) by Robert Peterson.  He calls it the quiescent mind, which he likens to the moment after you see a flash of lightning.  In that brief moment you stop doing everything and focus all of your attention on your ears, waiting to hear the thunder that will soon crash.  That is the state of mind you're shooting for.

[BlackAndWhite]

don't try too hard.  by this i mean don't over analyze.  in fact, don't think at all if you can.

that was my big problem.  i was always too excited and i was anticipating the experience way too much.  it pretty much ensured failure.

you gotta let go as much as possible, which i difficult i know.  but spend some time meditating (i do it as i'm going to sleep at night, which is probably creating a bad habit, but oh well) and practicing clearing your mind.

the state of mind you want to be in is described best (imo) by Robert Peterson.  He calls it the quiescent mind, which he likens to the moment after you see a flash of lightning.  In that brief moment you stop doing everything and focus all of your attention on your ears, waiting to hear the thunder that will soon crash.  That is the state of mind you're shooting for.

Hmm, I've gotten that white flash before, however it would come when something outside would make a sound which would startle me, and then I'll see that white flash. Btw, does that thunder sound frighten you when it comes ?

[Tee1234]

Hello everyone

It's been a while, I remember asking questions on the Astral months ago on here. I've been trying to project for a while now but the furthest I've reached is through reaching Bedeekin's method, which IMO, is really frickin hard on waking up through a 1-2 hour nap. However, today, while lying down and trying to project, I did feel my body paralyzed at one point, but I knew it wasn't the "Sleep paralysis" which we all know about. I mean I know that I can move, and it also occurs once in a while when trying to project, at times I do feel like I'm running out of breath when I try to longer the process. One thing I did notice though, is that at one point today, I can swear that I could see a visual of the ceiling even though obviously my eyes were closed, but it was really interesting and nice and I kind of regret opening my eyes, there's always that fear which angers me at times.  

All in all, does anyone have any experiences similar to these, and can you give me any more tips that might help me project

Thank you,
Eddy

imo easiest possible time to do it is bedtime. Your goal is to put your body asleep yet maintain awareness. Yes its hard, you might not get it the first night but keep tryn. If you wake up throughout the night, try again.
So stick with whatever your doing -Just do it at bedtime. As your drifting off to sleep just maintain awareness- make sure your on your back and dont panic when the vibrations hit. When they end just sit up  -your there.

It really is that simple, the hard part is just not fading off. Never lose awareness. If your tired enough it can take minutes. Take a note how long it usually takes for you to fall asleep. Thats about how long it should take to project.

The best advice I can give you is- Your goal should be get to the vibrational stage first. Not the little vibes or tingling or numbness throughout the body, those are all things that lead to the vibrational stage. When the big one hits, its unmistakable. Probably the first time or first couple times you get to it youl get scared, excited or panic and it will ruin it. But thats it, so if you can maintain awareness to get there and stay calm throughout it, youl be exploring in no time.

[AstralAstra]

on average how long does it take to hit the vibrational stage?

I can get to the stage where i get slight tingles and waves come over my body, but i just lay there for half an hour at the most and nothing happens, this leads me to the conclusion that im doing something wrong?

[personalreality]

i rarely, if ever, encounter the vibrations.

moral of the story: don't set "achieving vibrations" as your goal because some of the best projectors have never felt vibrations.

i just realized that it sounds like i'm saying that i'm one of the best projectors.  didn't mean to imply that.  i am not one of the best projectors.

[Summerlander]

LOL, the slight tingles and waves is one of the ways you experience the vibrational stage. All you have to do is employ a method of separation like the roll over and out for example.

Besides, you are aiming to have OOBEs, not vibrations. You don't always have to experience them. Sometimes from SP you experience a sliding or slipping feeling which, if you go along with, will lead to a complete disassociation from the body. You can have OOBEs regardless of whether you feel vibes or not. Vibes are just a good indication of when to separate. If they don't happen, an OOBE usually occurs spontaneously.

Are you using the pre-nap method, btw? If so, this site includes some techniques which may help:
www.obe4u.com

[BlackAndWhite]

And how long does the seperation take once you feel the "tinglings" and "vibes" ?

[Summerlander]

This can vary widely!

Sometimes you can feel ejected or catapulted out, other times the simple act of getting up is an act of separation that you only realise to have taken place when you look around, you can also float, teleport out etc. etc. - all of this can occur in a short space of time or it can take longer, at times you may feel sucked back in and the separation attempt is prolonged as you struggle with this. It all depends.

To be honest, I wouldn't be so concerned with these itty bitty details as they won't help you in anyway. Just pick a method and use it and discard any expectations. Ignore what you might have heard. Find out for yourself. You can do it just like any other arse-wiper who's done it unaided, taught in seminars, and has written a book about it

[AstralAstra]

ive never been in sleep paralysis, is this needed to project?, is there anyway to induce SP?

[personalreality]

no, it's not needed.

forget you ever heard the word.

if it happens to you, then worry about it.

[AstralAstra]

PR, what would you say are the best times to practice? and is there any reason i cant get into deep relaxation even thought i feel my mind is clear?

[personalreality]

PR, what would you say are the best times to practice? and is there any reason i cant get into deep relaxation even thought i feel my mind is clear?

Yea, the afternoon is the best time that I've found for practice.

At night your muscle tension is at it's highest (which we can sleep with, but not project easily) and your serotonin is at it's lowest (which makes it difficult to focus and in all likelihood will lead to you falling asleep).

In the morning your muscle tension is the lowest, so that would absolutely help you a lot if you're having trouble relaxing enough.  However, your serotonin levels are their highest in the morning and for some people it keeps them too awake and won't let them go deep enough into trance. 

For me, it was the "middle of the road" that worked.  In the afternoon you're a little mentally worn out so it makes it easier to get into deep trance states, but your muscles are still relatively relaxed (compared to bedtime), relaxed enough to project at least.

You should try in the morning to see if the relaxation is easier.  But if you find that it is difficult to enter trance then try in the afternoon around 2-4pm.

[Summerlander]

This very much depends upon your sleep schedule. You can project easily if you first prime yourself with a nap. Wake up earlier than usual, keep active during the day, and in the evening, when you are tired, have a nap. Two hours is alright as it will be dreamless (or you barely remember any dreaming) as it consists mostly of delta sleep.

Say you go down for a nap at 8pm...wake up at 10pm...you will feel 'jet lagged' and this is perfect. Stay up for more than an hour (don't induce straight away or chances are that you will fall asleep).

Say you do down for the induction of an OOBE at 11.30pm. Perfect. Your brain is dying to reach the REM stage that you deprived it of. Thus, as you relax, the body will 'switch off' (sleep mode where muscle atonia ensues) before the mind sleeps (when it's usually the other way around). Mind awake, body asleep is what you need. Because you primed yourself, the brain will enter REM in less than ten minutes like in narcolepsy, rather than the usual 90 minute wait.

ALTERNATIVELY...

You can go to bed around 11pm or midnight and just sleep to wake up around 3 or 4am (when melatonin is at a peak). Use the toilet if you have to but you can then go down after 10 or 15 minutes to induce (the sleep inertia period, or the wait, is reduced).

ALTERNATIVELY...

Sleep all night and wake up in the morning to induce from the hypnopompic state. This involves recognition of having woken up. It shouldn't take long for SP/VS to ensue and you're away. As Monroe mentions in Journeys Out of the Body, "Condition D" is best achieved from a rested or refreshed state, preferably after some sort of nap or sleep.

When it comes to induction, do NOT go back to sleep. Keep your mind focused on something...one thing only (and bring it back to focus everytime the mind wanders) and eventually there will be a shift in perception and you will know that an OOBE is around the corner...

Good luck!

[AstralBlogger]

As Personalreality said "don't try too hard" that is the most important piece of advice just relax and go with flow there is absolutely nothing to be scared of!

[Tee1234]

LOL, the slight tingles and waves is one of the ways you experience the vibrational stage. All you have to do is employ a method of separation like the roll over and out for example.

Besides, you are aiming to have OOBEs, not vibrations. You don't always have to experience them. Sometimes from SP you experience a sliding or slipping feeling which, if you go along with, will lead to a complete disassociation from the body. You can have OOBEs regardless of whether you feel vibes or not. Vibes are just a good indication of when to separate. If they don't happen, an OOBE usually occurs spontaneously.

Are you using the pre-nap method, btw? If so, this site includes some techniques which may help:
www.obe4u.com

Wow, Summer looks like were buttin heads once again. Your methods confuse me. So what your saying is when you lay down, get comfortable n feel relaxed just do the roll over technique and your out? ...Its not that simple.

The kids gonna be laying there doing the roll over technique over n over and wondering why hes not coming out.

As for Black n white try whatever way you want. Heres the way to go about it imo. Lay there on your back, perfectly still. You lie there long enough youl get to a point where parts of your body will start to tingle. Shortly after that it will go numb. This is where il start to imagine myself spinning or swinging or any sensation that makes my body feel kinda like a dizzy sensation. This will speed up the process for the big vibration to come. When that happens it will last roughly 20/30 sec, give or take. After that, use your roll over technique to get out of your body. Personally I just situp but many people use all different techniques to get out.  The point is, after the big vibration your basically out. But if you need the little extra help I suggest you roll out of your body.  After the vibrations hit you could roll out, climb the rope out, float out, any technique U like will work . After you get the hang of it it will be easier ever time you do it. Like I said, I just sit up, just as I would if I was normally getting out of bed.

-One more thing though try it when your already tired. Tired enough for sleep, cause then you already won half the battle of getting your body really relaxed.

As for Summer, Im not sure what hes doing but he says it works. So my suggestion is listen to everybody,  and if its not helping move on and try someone elses. Sooner or later youl get it. Theres so many people that have different opinions on how to do it, just weed out the ones that dont work till you find one that does.

[CFTraveler]

Theres so many people that have different opinions on how to do it, just weed out the ones that dont work till you find one that does.

I just want to add one more thing:  When you've weeded out what doesn't seem to work, don't forget it, file it under 'last resort', and come back to it when what works stops working- you will find that as you change your techs need to change too, and what didn't work before might work in the future.

[personalreality]

very well put CFT.

[Summerlander]

Wow, Summer looks like were buttin heads once again. Your methods confuse me. So what your saying is when you lay down, get comfortable n feel relaxed just do the roll over technique and your out? ...Its not that simple.

It really is that simple because I've done it so many times. People tend to think it's more complicated and they think they will fail and this is what causes problems.

It works because, if the physical body is atonic, it won't move. So when you make the effort to roll over from the head and out, which is done as though you are really moving and is NOT imagined btw, the movement may emulate physical movement but you will find that it is really incorporeal in nature.

I don't imagine any swinging before that. Imagining swinging does not bring about the vibrational state. I know this because I haven't done what you did and still experienced it. The only thing I focus on in my head, as you must have seen in the guide that I have posted here more than once, is my bedroom lamp which I use to simply keep my mind focused and to prevent it from getting completely lost before I reach the hypnagogic state.

Please don't confuse the newbie, Tee1234!

[personalreality]

in this instance i do agree summer.

if you get close enough to sleep, it's just a matter of recognizing that you can separate and doing it.

[Summerlander]

Absolutely!

By the way, I told Rudy that you apologised. He said "no sweat". He's mad at Xanth though. He said he's a phony.

It's true!

[personalreality]

xanth isn't a phony, he's the only active moderator on the biggest AP forum out there.  he's doing his best in light of the situation i think.

other people have said the same in the past, but when he's not being a moderator and you carry on a normal conversation with him, he's just a normal dude.  it can be difficult to hold back your tongue and not moderate based on personal/philosophical beliefs.  i commend the job he's done thus far.

[Summerlander]

Hey, you don't have to tell me that. I'm not the one saying it! I know Xanth from AVers. Why do you think I defended him so vehemently in the "Take it easy guys" thread? Cool your boots, mate. Cool your boots!

[personalreality]

no ill intent here.  just putting it out there.

ice cold. 

[Summerlander]

Cool!