failing tests

[fowlskins]

so after my couple of recent successes at projection ive stumbled back into missing some pretty obvious things

it seems my subconscious has offered up lots of dream signs and moments in witch i could have raised my awareness enough to exit from the dream state but ive just failed to recognize them

the other night i was deep in unconscious dream when i saw my grandmother that has been dead for over 20+ years i instantly realized that i must be dreaming and became lucid but rather than take control of the scene i proceeded to have a chat with her asking her where she had been and how was the afterlife treating her until eventually slipping back into the dream

another dream consisted of sitting around in a circle of caravans with various like minded individuals that i didn't know but we were all discussing astral projection in depth but i never made the connection that i was in the non physical already

i had a large bought of false awakenings again but struggled to get out of the loop before actually awakening

and the usual out of place dream signs that should have been a trigger to lucidity but were not

it really is tricky this lark but i love exploring the mind so much
onwards and upwards

[Lumaza]

the other night i was deep in unconscious dream when i saw my grandmother that has been dead for over 20+ years i instantly realized that i must be dreaming and became lucid but rather than take control of the scene i proceeded to have a chat with her asking her where she had been and how was the afterlife treating her until eventually slipping back into the dream

Hmm, just curious, why does everyone think they always have to "take control" of everything? Just live it. Experience it now. You will soon see patterns within your experiences.

I believe the areas or "simulations" that we find ourselves in are there for a reason. We just have to find that "meaning". I experience these "loops" often myself and if I don't achieve whatever the task is, I will find that it returns somewhere down the road in another LD. That's if it was important enough to. Sometimes the loops are used just to "increase" our Lucidity in the scenario at hand.

There is nothing wrong with failing tests. I find that sometimes we learn more from failing them, then we do from finishing or "passing them. Once you pass one though, another one will appear. That's if you are ready to accept the next challenge. It's all has to do with "progression".

[EscapeVelocity]

Failing to take notice of dream triggers seems to be a pretty common circumstance we fall back into during a certain period within our development; this might be where you are presently, fowlskins. There might be more than a few reasons, which should cause us to re-study the issue a bit closer. Maybe we are simply pushed to increase our awareness at any given time; maybe we are being challenged to notice a certain aspect of our individual triggers; maybe it is to further realize some nuances of these levels of awareness.

In some cases, as both Lumaza and Szaxx have pointed out to me, it may not be a lack of awareness within a particular dream, but rather the requirement to experience the dream/simulation at a more "instinctive" level of awareness. Lumaza describes this as following the natural course of the dream, allowing it to unfold on its own...I am not sure that I fully understand this, yet nonetheless, it definitely happens.

The idea of "control" takes on new meanings; there is direct control, and there is now indirect or subconscious control.

You may find that some of your experiences now move into this new category where your old definitions don't fit quite as well. I would suggest being open to that idea.

The conscious obes/dreams; the subconscious obes/dreams; the False Awakenings...these all finally begin to merge into a single category of "Experiences"...and for me, if they teach me something, if I learn something from them...then they qualify as valid and worthwhile, regardless of what they actually are (THAT is another realization!)

To paraphrase Lumaza's excellent point...I learn more from my mistakes and failures so much more than I do from my successes.

And yes, in the NP, once you clear one hurdle...you get presented with another...it is an incredible learning experience.

I had what is probably the best "refusal" to recognize a dream trigger a couple years ago. I was in a dream, standing in a field, staring into the distance dumbly, and a computer-generated pop-up window kept appearing before me, blocking part of my view...

It was annoying so I tapped the X in the upper right corner and made it go away...and it re-appeared...I tapped again, and again, and again...each time it went away but the message on the screen went a little deeper into my consciousness...until finally, the last time I tapped the X and it disappeared from view, the message hit home as I sank back into sleep...

                                    Do you know you are dreaming?

When I woke up a few hours later, the truth of what happened was clear in my mind...I was speechless but laughing...

Trust in your instincts...you are doing great...onward and upward!

EV

[fowlskins]

I guess failure is a strong way to put it
I think the thing is after having a eureka moment trying to replicate it from any possible scenario seems to be my main drive
That being said it dosnt mean I don't enjoy every moment of clarity in its own way
The meeting with my gran was really nice as it's been so long that I rarely think of her these days and the fact that my subconscious made her seem so bang on to how I remember her was probaly why I just melted into talking and spending time with her

The truth is I've never had spontaneous lucid dreams or Obe's as a child I've had to learn and practice as I'm sure many others here have also but that's why now I want to keep the progress ball rolling
But I still enjoy any little moment

As ever I appreciate all your feedback

[Lumaza]

I think the thing is after having a eureka moment trying to replicate it from any possible scenario seems to be my main drive

Unfortunately, you likely will never be able to "replicate" it again. Something will always change each time you "access" these "other realms" It could be the "mode" of access, the destination, your awareness level, all kinds of things. That's why it's important to log every experience, no matter how trivial or mundane you may find it to be.

You will have other EUREKA moments though! 

[Szaxx]

There's always the possibility that it's real, looking at it this way, you may get another meeting.
I've appeared in the same locations many times and they do seem more than created. The people I met were there and remembered me too. I didn't expect any of it or even a thought of the location existed.
It was a bit wierd.

Taking control of yourself by becoming aware in the experience is good. Changing the given scene into a pleasure flight or similar may be fun, it may be a step backwards too. You could miss an important point to the experience. A simple feeling that's new is progress.
If things are going pear shaped then changing what's occurring deliberately by taking control of the situation could also be a good thing. It will be apparent at the time, especially if you're being tested for reactions under pressure. These are clearly different from standard dreams as you instinctively know what you have to do.

Some good replies already given say a great deal. How you react in an environment is what counts. Doing what's required may not be as easy to spot as it looks. If it feels right then it likely is.

[Lumaza]

I've appeared in the same locations many times and they do seem more than created. The people I met were there and remembered me too. I didn't expect any of it or even a thought of the location existed.

That is exactly what brought me to the conclusion that Parallel Universes do indeed exist. I have soooooooooooo many experiences with this and they are still ongoing even today. It gets akin to the past show on TV "Cheers", because everyone seems to know my name there, lol.

I spoke of people here talking about "always trying to take control" because I constantly hear that people end up somewhere, then they try to change the scene as soon as they become more aware. I have been shown constantly that where you end up is indeed where you "need" to be at that time. Even when things get "hairy". That's usually the time that decisions need to be made and those decision steer the rest of your current experience in whatever scenario you find yourself in. That's where the real "tests" lie.

But yes, it is fun to just break away and go flying sometimes. We don't always have to be "on the clock" per say!  

[ThaomasOfGrey]

I have spoken of taking control of the situation, I had been trying to do this at every opportunity until recently. I have learned that not trying too hard to control the experience makes it less likely to become unstable.

The idea of staying within the existing dream by choice had not occurred to me until mentioned here. The typical dream experience has value but they rarely excite me enough to be memorable.

The reason I began to learn this skill was primarily to explore my own creativity and neither dreams nor astral projection allow me to do that yet. It would be hard to turn down the offer of trading these experiences for full control because I am sure that every single one of those experiences would have been mind blowing.

Learning control the hard way has proven to be a tough prospect. I think it will pay off in the end but the single most difficult thing right now is that it is a rare occurrence to even get to practice.

[Szaxx]

How many times per week are you aware within an experience?
Solving this may start the ball rolling in your favour.

[ThaomasOfGrey]

A couple of months ago I was becoming aware almost every night and even if I didn't I would be having very lucid dreams with good recall. Then I experienced a sudden cliff fall into hardly remembering any of my dreams and not becoming aware at all.

I suspect this change was sparked when I decided to avoid sex in the astral world for a while. On a conscious level this decision doesn't really affect my goals but it had a real impact on both recall and dream triggering. It doesn't help that I also have been lazy about logging the experiences; it is actually pretty tricky to make it to the book without forgetting at times.

I have been developing my conscious control a little more since my success in dreams has waned. Besides the astral basics I have also been investigating related phenomenon like 3rd eye awakening, Wim Hof method and holotropic breathing. All of these techniques seem to work the same - stop conscious thoughts and let things happen while juicing the body with oxygen.

It seems like eliminating the conscious thought is key to this. I have had some visions where I have been left unsure if I was seeing with my real eyes or not. The inner monologue is relentless with me - I am doing well to silence it for 30 seconds but it is getting better.

I have heard that to experience psychic phenomenon it is necessary to quiet the mind so that brain waves change to the kind associated with sleeping. Yet my understanding is that a person astral projecting is in the conscious brain wave state. Is this down and up transition actually a pre-requisite?

[fowlskins]

scanned back through my journal its difficult to pin down exactly how often im lucid in a week as sometimes it might be three times other times i might not obtain consciousness in a dream state for a month or so
sleep paralasis only happens with me rarely i may wake up in this state 3 or 4 times in a year and this is always where ive had my most success conscious projecting
my journal has taken a bit of a back seat lately with a new edition to the family making writing it up not top priority
ive tried phasing recently but after a days work with two young children draining what extra energy i have i tend to always just fall asleep which is why like Thomas trying to raise awareness to max from a lucid dream is my best bet usualy 

[Lumaza]

scanned back through my journal its difficult to pin down exactly how often im lucid in a week as sometimes it might be three times other times i might not obtain consciousness in a dream state for a month or so
sleep paralasis only happens with me rarely i may wake up in this state 3 or 4 times in a year and this is always where ive had my most success conscious projecting
my journal has taken a bit of a back seat lately with a new edition to the family making writing it up not top priority
ive tried phasing recently but after a days work with two young children draining what extra energy i have i tend to always just fall asleep which is why like Thomas trying to raise awareness to max from a lucid dream is my best bet usualy  

I find that as long as you still have the "intent", that your "higher self" will find a way to fit this into your life, regardless of your current situation.

I have to attest as well, after logging 6 full text paper books of my "other realm" adventures, that it is hard to keep it up "faithfully" day after day. Now I only log the adventures and experiences that really stand out. I'm down to logging once maybe twice a week and sometimes go without a log for up to 2 weeks. But the "intent" never goes away.

I am dealing with some rather pressing personal issues at the moment and that seems to have cut my LDs or should I say my recall of them down quite a bit. My actual OBEs seem to be on hold as well. Life can do that sometimes. 

I still practice "being" non physical on a daily basis. Examples closing my eyes and reaching out with etheric hands to some far off object or my favorite recently has been to close my eyes and use my etheric fingers to roll a coin between them. I don't look for the coin because it is already there. The trick is to do it without moving your physical fingers at all. Try it. It is very difficult to do. But it teaches you control. Just stretch your physical hand out n front of you. Close your eyes and start to lightly move your etheric fingers. Practice that first. Now once you get good at that. See the "Gold" coin in your fingers and begin cycling it between them. You don't have to look for the coin, just know it's already there. Daily practices like this teach you to release your physical focus at will. There is no clearing your mind. No deep meditation involved here.  ......and many times while doing this simple practice something will change. When it does, go with it. That will lead you deeper. Don't get discouraged and give up. Like they say "Rome wasn't built in a day"!

That daily practice has led to the ability to sometimes just see extremely vivid scenes by simply just closing my eyes. When I do this there is no intended visual involved. Many times this new occurrence  has to do with the feeling of motion and visuals to accompany it. It can get rather intense as well.

[ThaomasOfGrey]

I find that as long as you still have the "intent", that your "higher self" will find a way to fit this into your life, regardless of your current situation.

I have to attest as well, after logging 6 full text paper books of my "other realm" adventures, that it is hard to keep it up "faithfully" day after day. Now I only log the adventures and experiences that really stand out. I'm down to logging once maybe twice a week and sometimes go without a log for up to 2 weeks. But the "intent" never goes away.

I am dealing with some rather pressing personal issues at the moment and that seems to have cut my LDs or should I say my recall of them down quite a bit. My actual OBEs seem to be on hold as well. Life can do that sometimes. 

I guess I feel better knowing I am not the only one to have valleys in progress.

I still practice "being" non physical on a daily basis. Examples closing my eyes and reaching out with etheric hands to some far off object or my favorite recently has been to close my eyes and use my etheric fingers to roll a coin between them. I don't look for the coin because it is already there. The trick is to do it without moving your physical fingers at all. Try it. It is very difficult to do. But it teaches you control. Just stretch your physical hand out n front of you. Close your eyes and start to lightly move your etheric fingers. Practice that first. Now once you get good at that. See the "Gold" coin in your fingers and begin cycling it between them. You don't have to look for the coin, just know it's already there. Daily practices like this teach you to release your physical focus at will. There is no clearing your mind. No deep meditation involved here.  ......and many times while doing this simple practice something will change. When it does, go with it. That will lead you deeper. Don't get discouraged and give up. Like they say "Rome wasn't built in a day"!

That daily practice has led to the ability to sometimes just see extremely vivid scenes by simply just closing my eyes. When I do this there is no intended visual involved. Many times this new occurrence  has to do with the feeling of motion and visuals to accompany it. It can get rather intense as well.

This sounds like a promising approach - I experiment with this sometimes but in more of a complete free flow manner in the early morning. I have some questions about this idea. You said there is no clearing of the mind, however, I do find that maintaining strong focus on the task does sort of do that anyway. Is the mind clearing incidental in this activity or would it really be plausible to monkey mind the entire process? I suppose if you have the focus to brute force into another data stream it doesn't matter.

I have trouble going with the automatic changes. My standard reaction is to register the fact that it happened and then I realize that in doing so that it is already over. Another issue, sometimes the thought enters my mind of what my body will do if my focus goes to another reality - should I expect that it will remain in position or is it going to fall in a dead heap? Does it not matter?

Yesterday I was laying in my car attempting to see non physically; sometimes when I am observing I see what seems like eyelids slowly opening. It looks rather similar to what physical eyelids do and I have caught myself really opening my eyes several times. This time I continued to observe and I saw blurry white and then a lot of blue. I felt like my eyes were really opening and I snapped out of it expecting to see that I was looking at the blue sky. When I opened my eyes I saw there was no blue in front of me. There was some off to the side so I can't rule out a trick of the light as that has also fooled me before.

[Lumaza]

First off, before I get to your answers, I just wanted to say Thaomas that you have always had some great questions and it has been a real treat corresponding here with you!  

You said there is no clearing of the mind, however, I do find that maintaining strong focus on the task does sort of do that anyway. Is the clearing incidental in this activity or would it really be plausible to monkey mind the entire process? I suppose if you have the focus to brute force into another data stream it doesn't matter.

Many of the "Meditation Gurus" and some AP authors will tell you to completely empty your mind and just await ..... I take a different approach. I am focused completely on the "task" at and therefore have released my focus on my physical body and environment all together. "Brute force" is a good way to describe it, lol. I have always likened it to the "grip of a Pitbull".

I have trouble going with the automatic changes. My standard reaction is to register the fact that it happened and then I realize that in doing so that it is already over. Another issue, sometimes the thought enters my mind of what my body will do if my focus goes to another reality - should I expect that it will remain in position or is it going to fall in a dead heap? Does it not matter?

I think this might come into a category of "left brain" vs "right brain". A person who is left brain is very analytical and for that they will need to fully understand and "know" what is happening every step of the way. A person that is right brain would much easier get into the flow of things. They would just lie back and "allow" the creations around them to occur. A person who is "left-brained" is often said to be more logical, analytical, and objective. A person who is "right-brained" is said to be more intuitive, thoughtful, and subjective.

I would say if your body fell into a "heap", you would soon know, lol!    ...but seriously now, you would be in a position, sitting in a chair perhaps, whereas falling into a heap wouldn't be a possibility. How many times have you nodded off while sitting in a chair just to awaken when your chin hit your chest? I'm sure it would be the same as falling into a heap.

Yesterday I was laying in my car attempting to see non physically; sometimes when I am observing I see what seems like eyelids slowly opening. It looks rather similar to what physical eyelids do and I have caught myself really opening my eyes several times. This time I continued to observe and I saw blurry white and then a lot of blue. I felt like my eyes were really opening and I snapped out of it expecting to see that I was looking at the blue sky. When I opened my eyes I saw there was no blue in front of me. There was some off to the side so I can't rule out a trick of the light as that has also fooled me before.

That happened to me many times when I first began to learn how to Phase out. I then began using a simple "Blindfold" and after awhile I upgraded to a professional version. I had used the "Mindfold" for a while, but then it fell apart. It wasn't a good thing to use while sleeping. I then changed over to the "Escape Luxury Blindfold". It is very comfortable, even for people like me that that like to sleep on their sides. It also blocks out all light. Sure it's a tool. But a very useful one for people that really want to be "sure" of  what is happening to them. Being "sure" is very important. Any kind of proof that you can get is positive reassurance in this practice in general.
http://www.dreamessentials.com/product-66/escape-luxury-travel-sleep-mask-w-carry-pouch-earplugs

[ThaomasOfGrey]

Thanks Lumaza, I really appreciate your guidance! I disseminate the advice I get here to my friends who pursue this area too. It would be amazing to hear a podcast on a topic from the members here one day.

I am definitely a left brained person. It is good to know there is an approach that can more readily deal with this type. I think it is important for my growth to learn to be more like a right brained person as well. Two of my friends fit into the right brained category and they seem to fall on the opposite end of the spectrum to me where it is more likely that they will go right past clear mind and fall asleep in minutes.

I probably should have been more descriptive regarding falling in a heap. What I was getting at is that falling asleep and getting the jolt would probably be prohibitive to completing a transition to another reality. I think that the exercise should be fine for practice at any time but if you seriously intend on having a lengthy experience you would need to arrange your position first as you pointed out.

I agree on the point of being sure, so much of this domain lends to state of mind, even the placebo affect of thinking things are working can be quite powerful. One time I was almost convinced I was in another reality due to an optical illusion and I saw some interesting things. When I am unsure if I am seeing physical light or not it puts a seed of doubt into my mind and that definitely hampers the possibilities.

We use the blindfolds for holotropic breathing, sensory deprivation in general makes a big difference. I am going to be trying out one of these things soon http://www.zenfloatco.com/.

[fowlskins]

ooo that float tank looks nice whats that retail at ?

[ThaomasOfGrey]

They are expensive, 1800 USD. I have looked into the options and even making a tank yourself from scratch cannot realistically be achieved for less - the dynamics involved in maintaining the float tank water are more complex than one might imagine. The commercial rigs are even more expensive in the order of 15000 USD.

On the other hand most people, even with little or no experience, are able to have great experiences reliably so that is a huge plus.