I would like to start a new topic, on what people have seen in the Astral plane. Here are a few question i have been pondering.
1. Is it solid like the Physical?
2.Is it no diffrent then a lucid dream.
3.Are there people there
4.Are there cities or buildings
5.Is it non solid always in flux
6.could it be described
7.is the astral another physical universe.
These question in my research of the subject have never really been answered.
I would like members of the forum to answer these seven questions according to there own experience>Thank You.
1. Is it solid like the Physical? no
2.Is it no diffrent then a lucid dream. It is different as there are less images being projected by the mind.
3.Are there people there? yes
4.Are there cities or buildings? yes
5.Is it non solid always in flux? yes
6.could it be described? absolutely
7.is the astral another physical universe. No
Hope that helps.
As water goes from ice to liquid and then to steam is due to a change in vibrational energy. The astral plane vibrates at a higher frequency that the physical plane. So the higher yo go, the less solid everything is.
It is not another physical universe because that would imply that it is more solid, which is as pointed out - not the case.
I'd recommend the book by Robert Bruce called Astral Dynamics if you are interested. Will be a good introduction, it's written very well.
-AM
Quote from: Nameless One on December 12, 2006, 19:42:04
I would like to start a new topic, on what people have seen in the Astral plane. Here are a few question i have been pondering.
1. Is it solid like the Physical?
No, but sometimes it is perceived as such.
Quote2.Is it no diffrent then a lucid dream.
Depends on your lucid dream.
Quote3.Are there people there
There are beings there. Some are people.
Quote4.Are there cities or buildings
In my experience, in some of them, yes.
Quote5.Is it non solid always in flux
In my experience, in some of them, also yes.
Quote6.could it be described
It can be described, however the descriptions are not always coincidental, because your perceptions are filtered by your subconscious.
Quote7.is the astral another physical universe.
It depends on what you call physical. If by physical you mean that it exists in the universe, my answer would be yes, it's not another universe, but another way of being in the universe. If you consider energy to be physical (which I do, but some don't) then yes.
QuoteThese question in my research of the subject have never really been answered.
I would like members of the forum to answer these seven questions according to there own experience>Thank You.
I hope you get something out of them.
Ladies and gentlemen, it is with great pleasure that I present to you my latest partial attempt at formulating a Universally Accepted Model (tm) for the non-physical universe. I'll be honest with you, this is what makes the most sense in my mind after reading about a million and a half books on the subject, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's accurate or "true." Oh yeah, and I hope it'll make sense, 'cause it's late at night and I'm just not that good at explaining :evil:
Here's a diagram:
(http://www.kiwibonga.com/astralplane.gif)
At the root, we are a blob of timeless, formless, sizeless thought energy that we like to call "the higher self". Inside this blob, we as persons are a subset of this thought energy. We are a sub-blob that contains our thoughts, our memory, everything that defines our identity. Within this sub-blob are all of our different focuses of consciousness, including waking consciousness.
Now, thought energy is vibrating, intangible, inexistant "stuff" that carries data. A memory of the word "tree" is an encoded blob of thought energy inside our consciousness that carries links to other blobs of thought energy that define it. The defining blobs could be things like memories created by a being after seeing a tree, memories created by a being after reading the definition for "tree" in the dictionary, all the expectations of what a tree should be in that person's mind, etc. Thought forms within a person's "blob" are all interconnected in some way. When you have a loss of memory, you actually have lost the link to the memories you were trying to access, but the memories are still there, intact, as thoughtforms, somewhere inside your "blob." Through altered states, it is possible to look beyond the confines of physical memory and retrieve lost memories from the blob.
The environment these giant blobs of thought energy we call higher selves are located in, that's what we call The Astral Plane.
An Astral Realm is a set of interconnected thoughtforms within one of these blobs.
I took Astral Pulse Island as an example in the diagram. Adrian, who is a subset of his higher self, and a subset of All There Is, one day decided to create a subjective Astral Realm that he named Astral Pulse Island, within his own consciousness. In this case, it was very much a "Dreamscape" ; a fictional place that existed only in his mind. The thoughtforms inside this Realm are an island, a pyramid, water, the sky, palm trees, etc. Adrian then gave other people the directions to this Astral Realm so they could visit it.
When a person decides to visit Astral Pulse Island, all they have to do is locate Adrian's creation, stretch their blobby appendages and connect with it.
In much the same way, our physical universe is an Astral Realm within what we like to call The Creator. The Creator owns all atoms, particles, our physical bodies, the emptiness between atoms, etc. The creator was particularly clever in that his Astral Realm is not made of concepts. Each atom is actually made of persistent little heart-shaped balls of energy. We are not our physical bodies, we are a blob in another dimension that is remote controlling a physical body, you dig? What we really are in this plane is an etheric body, a blob of energy that is capable of sending energetic impulses into physical matter. The etheric body is responsible for the exchange of information between the physical body and the mind. In energy work, telekinesis, "soul healing," we learn to direct energy outside of just the brain in order to alter physical reality.
The Astral Plane is a large mass of thought energy containing many fragmented subsets that like to call themselves identities. Each subset has an infinite size and can contain many interconnected thoughtforms. Your own mind, I'm sure, contains many worlds of your creation.
So when you visit the Astral Plane, what you are visiting is a subset of your consciousness. You may decide to visit or suddenly find yourself in an Astral Realm that was not created by you. This is extremely rare, usually there is a reason behind it. What happens is that you make your own personal blob, your consciousness, intersect with another entity's consciousness and access a set of thoughtforms. That realm may be as tangible as the physical world, especially if it was created by a human being. It could also be "weak" and be shaped mostly by your mind if the entity that created it did not put much energy into making it stable, or if it has nothing to do with physical consciousness.
Let's say you find yourself in an Astral Realm where all the beings are red balls that talk to each other solely using muscal tones. You may very well see them as people having conversations. They'll see you as a big red ball that has an unusual way of beeping 440 Hz to say hello, and neither party will know how different they are from each other!
The Astral Plane is all about how you use your thoughtforms to relate and connect to other thoughtforms in the universe. The Astral Projection experience is in many aspects like a dream, because a plain old dream also happens to be a weird thought form salad.
Anyway, I'm off to detach my blob from my physical body and intersect with other parts of All There Is. See ya.
Thank you all for your answers.
I find this very interesting and would like to see more discussens on the topic of the astral plane, and its nature behind it. Many say you can never make sense of the astral but i believe this is not true. I'm sure the astral can be understood if people shared there experiences and then looked for patterns i think the results will be very surprising.
Quote from: Nameless One on December 12, 2006, 19:42:04
I would like to start a new topic, on what people have seen in the Astral plane. Here are a few question i have been pondering.
Quote1. Is it solid like the Physical?
No
Quote2.Is it no diffrent then a lucid dream.
No
Quote3.Are there people there
Yes live projectors
Quote4.Are there cities or buildings
in the etheric below it and in the higher planes above it , some call the Astral all of the planes non material
but I feel Astral is a middle realm having no temples like Shamballah or buildings like the etheric
5.Is it non solid always in fluxyes
Quote6.could it be described
yes
Quote7.is the astral another physical universe.
no
QuoteThese question in my research of the subject have never really been answered.
I would like members of the forum to answer these seven questions according to their own experience>Thank You.
You're Welcome .
From my research and your answers it appears that, there could be many kinds of astral experiences.
1. the most common a sort of non material realm of desires and emotions, which can never be measured or understood. Because it is only a reflection of our inner self.
2. The other common experience is the dream world or world that appears solid but has different laws of nature that we are familiar with here in this universe. But in its own right is a legitimate physical universe in its self.
To prove this.
If you were is a lucid dream and then realized you could never wake from it wouldn't it become your knew reality?
This proves that how is our waking universe less real or less solid then any other.
Could it be that we do not understand the true geography of the planes but, only a crude idea.
An example could be the ancients who thought there was a vast river like ocean circling the world and beyond that was the gods.
From there point of view this seemed right till latter advances in sciences proved this false.
I have a strong feeling that what people are labeling the astral the ethric is very
Incorrect because the average person when dealing with the astral is like trying to make sense of the world like the ancients long ago.
From my experience there seems to be many world that are wrongly labeled the astral maybe they are the astral but the problem is there is not a corrects understanding of the astral.
I believe this forum can shed an unprecedented light on the true geography of the planes because like the physical universe why can't the spiritual have laws of nature as well?
If any one has read Astral Dynamics from Robert Bruce. You may be familiar with his Skull Rock experience, from his description how is it any different from another physical universe or another planet?
And Monroe's Journeys out of the body when he is in Local 3 how does that fit in to this astral, mental, cosmology.
Quote from: iNNERvOYAGER on December 18, 2006, 07:15:39
Hi hagethuriel, any chance that you can describe "Shamballah"?
Shamballah is a multidimensional realm of the higher planes which is accessed by magicians according to their development . The light quotient of the human energy body continues to build up and the magician attains higher planes . Robert Monroe , Franz Bardon , Madame Blavatsky , Aleister Crowley et al have mapped out the higher planes .
Buddha described the spiritual plane in 500 BC . Medieval kabballahists and alchemists have left many images of their mystic projections there .
Today , many projectors first come to Shamballah thru the Akashic Records on the 5th plane . The White manse that appears like the Taj Mahal is often the second place , it is in the 6th dimension. Once the 7th dimension is attained then the realm of Shamballah is easy to explore . The realms are in areas corresponding to vibration this allows for core imagery to be very effective .
The right hand realms are mostly temples of various religions wherein projectors can learn from spiritual teachers , avatars and angels . The Golden Chamber of Melchiezedek , the ashram of Serapis Bey and the Pyramids at Luxor are typical places to begin lessons of magick initiations . Horus and Thoth are teachers there .
The River divides the right hand realm from the left . The Wesak Valley is on the River Bank . On the full moon there are festivals there and projectors from around the wolrd come to the Wesak Valley .
The Left hand realms are more like campuses than temples . The Middle Pillar Realms are great towers .
I have not seen it all . The place is huge .
Thank you Hagethuriel, very interesting indeed.