Why do you believe in a god/creator

[WalkerInTheWoods]

God is neither male nor female. As one has already pointed out that idea is absolutely absurd. The claim that God is male in some religions points to the intent of controling the masses by putting males first. Also if God is male then there would have to be a female. Otherwise what is the point in having a sex. If there is a female then there is more than one God. If there are male and female then they must reproduce, hence there are even more Gods, unless "the God" killed all the other gods so he could be the only one. But God is not a man or woman such as we are. God is formless and exists beyond a physical understanding. God is also beyond time. Where God exists there is no time, or it is all time at once. So the agruments about what came first, how did God come about are flawed. God is outside of time as we know it.  God always existed for without time how is there a beginning and an end?

[kakkarot]

there. all gone  

[kakkarot]

err. wait a minute. this wasn't a debate. it was a cainam asking for information. my bad. sorry.

~kakkarot

Secret of Secrets

[cainam_nazier]

Right.  So please can we get back to it and not debate so that those who might share in thier experiences and knowlage can do so with out feeling the need to defend ones beliefs?

Please any one who wishes to put forth thier reasons and or experiences please do so and we will not debate them.


David Rogalski
cainam_nazier@hotmail.com
I am he who walks in the light but is masked by the shadows.

[Mobius]

I'ts probably a bit hard for anyone who has a particular belief or bond with their God to come forth & expose their feelings after our little philosophical exchanges, so a new post should probably be generated free of debate or the word debate, so we might gain insight into a persons particular faith.

I would like to continue the talks we have had on this subject & it's intracacy's, as I don't have ANY of the answers I must profess, but by exploring the paradigms each person puts forth, we may all get closer to our own truth & learn some interesting things along the way, after all this same debate/discussion has been going on for thousands of years & goes on every week day in universities around the world & they still havn't got any closer to any truth, so all we can do is speculate for the time being & maybe uncover something ' different '  in here.

Good journey's all

Mobius

[WalkerInTheWoods]

Sorry I did not mean to aid in the spiraling of getting this off topic. My words were never ment to be negative or accusing. I could have choosen a better way to write my last post. I merely wanted to get people thinking.

[Mobius]

Hi all

We might as well continue our discussions on the God/Creator subject as it is unlikely an entirely religous perspective will be put forth, not that it's a problem if someone does.

For a few thousand years now we have all been wondering about a God, Gods or a creator & have looked towards religous institutions & the pious for answers, in modern times we have science as well as religous institutions telling us how things are, with no-one having any concrete evidence & we are still no closer to any truths.

Three basic view points stand today, none with any real evidence; (a) Creationism  (b) Evolution  (c) Alien intervention.

Before I start, I just want to point out what I said in my last post, I don't have any of the answers to any of this, but my curious nature prevents me from accepting anything just because it's in print or someone of authority said so, I am not against anyone's beliefs but my own.

Creationism : First of all there is the premise that a singular God exists, coming into existence with complete omniscience, multi- dimensional vision & all it's needs for sustanance were met instantly. Since there is no proof & we will never realistically get it, there is no point re-quoting religous text that have dubious beginnings & no proof anyway, just hearsay.

Sounds like our old God mate is quite a scientist, but never went to his lectures on morals & ethics it seems. It could create our universe instantly, the earth came next & in a six day period it created light, even though it allready created the universe, minus the sun it seems. It also created every orgainism on the planet in 6 days? hmmm. It seems that if we had an all knowing God, it wouldn't have the need to learn through experience. Adam was created & apparently Eve out of him, even though biologically in the womb we all start out as women, hence the nipples & males evolve out of the female blueprint. Straight away there was a problem as eve ate an apple, which was forbidden fruit, a flaw in the system allready! Then Cain is allowed to kill his own brother & somehow finds a wife in a land that was supposed to be empty but for them, other Gods handy work?

Then there was the Satans who liked earth women so much they HAD them & created giants, which were deemed abominations & the satans were expelled to earth & motality. The Soddom & Gammorhea incident, why let a homosexual city come into existence & then send messengers to destroy it? Wouldn't God have that power & forsight itself, without needing others to do the dirty work?

I have to cut this short as something has come up, but I will expand more on the Creationism/ Evolution/ Alien Intervention theories later, until then.

Good journeys all

Mobius

[WalkerInTheWoods]

Creation or Evolution?

Why do science and religion fight to no end when it comes to the origins of life? Science and religion can actually go hand in hand if they would stop fighting.  Did a god create everything? Did everything just happen and then start evolving. Science has basicly prooven that evolution exists, to an extent anyway. Things evolve to fit their environment. Environments change so life has to change to continue on or else it dies. So if you believe in a god then why would you find this offensive? Do you not think that the Creator of all things would give life the ability to change to better fit its evironment so that the creation could go on? Would you find it so offensive if the Creator did start out small and allow tiny organisms to evolve into larger animals, and animals evolve into more and more "intelligent" beings? If this were true would it make this creation and Creator any less than if the Creator just said let there be and it was there?
I guess the big question would be is the Christian Bible literal or just symbolic? Even if it is literal and lets for just one moment say that evolution is true and that there is a God. Would this God tell early man how he did everything? Do you think that man would have understood evolution? Or any other method that a Creator may have used? If you believe in a Creator or a God, does it really matter how he did it?
Maybe religious people fight science because if one part of the Bible is prooven to have a flaw then they will have to question the entire Bible. This maybe good, but if you believe in the Bible and part is not entirely true it would not make the entire thing false. It would just mean that the interpretation is wrong and needs to be reviewed.
Do I believe in Creation or Evolution? I do not know. I believe in proof and being rational. Is a very old document proof or is a new one that takes two things and makes an assumption proof? I guess to me personally I do not really care. Yes I will always wonder and would like to know, but I do not feel we will ever have the whole truth along with the proof in my life time if ever on the physical plane. I guess that this is true for David's questions. How do you proove there is no god? How do you proove there is? Maybe the question we should be asking ourselves is: Is it important if there is a god or not?

I do not know what to say about Aliens being our origins. If aliens did plant life on earth then where did they come from? Who created them?

[Mobius]

G,day mate

Not sure if you were addressing me or not, but I agree with nearly everything you said. I shouldn't have started that post without finishing it as I have another 2 parts to add to it. Personally I don't find the existence of a God, creator or evolutionary concepts offensive, I'm just putting down some thoughts. I have a lot of work to do at present & will continue my last post tonight when I get home. Just throwing around ideas & I hope people don't take personal offence as my intention is not to bring down any pre-established beliefs or institutions, just to talk about them.

Good journeys all

Mobius

[WalkerInTheWoods]

Mobius, I was not really addressing you directly. I was just expanding on your post with some ideas. I look forward to reading the rest of your ideas.

I think a good question to ask is, how many are still in the religion they were born into?

I was born into Christainity. My parents were not hardcore Christains but they were and still seem to be strong believers. So of coarse as I was growing up I went to a Christain church and pretty much learned to accept that it is the "Truth". Paying attention to the lessons I was taught not to question the validity of the religion. How do you know it is right and true? You just have to have faith was the answer to the question. At the time it was an ok answer. But as I grew up and my mind wished to grow that answer no longer satisfied me. For the longest time I had to deal with the programming that was done to me making me believe I was bad for questioning. But one major question kept coming to me, what about other religions? Are they wrong since this one is suppose to be the only right one? Are they not told they are to have faith that their religions are right when questioned as well? Who is right? Who is wrong? Is everyone wrong? I felt there was more than just religion so I broke off from it to seek. I still value the lessons that religions have, but I have grown to believe that there is no "salvation" in them. If there was, why would a god create so many people and then allow so many different beliefs but only one is the way to stay out of eternal fire? Would he really create only to torture so much of the creation? I could not accept that.

That may not exactly answer the questions asked, but I feel it is valid to answer why I do not believe some things as much as it is to answer why I do believe some things.

Now I search for something that is real, something that I can believe in because I have proof, experience, and have rationally thought it through. It would seem that if you wish to discover what is beyond the physical you must go there. So astral projection and out of body experiences are a way to find fruth. But traveling out of body can be tricky and requires a lot of skill to see truth beyond the illusions that are there. But if you wish to find answers that is where they will be. Or that is my opinion on where they can be found.

[Mobius]

G,day mate

Sounds like we have had some similar experiences growing up with religion & maybe I too should give some background into my involvement as I'm not against any prophets or Gods, they feel like family to me, it's just the establishments who sprung up in the name of these people or concepts, as they never asked for it & the very idea is what most of them stood against.

I lived in a very catholic/christian family, my mums side anyway. Church every Sunday or face the scorn of mum & God, my uncle was & still is a priest, my cousin went into the brotherhood & I became an alter boy, I was hooked, but somehow I knew inside that it was just my desire to fit in, to be like everyone else I spent the majority of my time with & for some selfish reasons as well, like wanting someone to be there to forgive wrongdoings & ensure a spot in Heaven or where ever land as long as I conformed to that belief system.

Most kids have that constant "why?" attitude but stop as soon as they realise that they could be made to look foolish for not knowing about something in front of their peers. For some reason I didn't care what my peers thought about me & I continued to ask "Why?", this started off the cracks in the walls of my belief system & I have been on a journey ever since. There was & still is only one thing I truly know about spirituality, the fact that I have a non physical body living inside & co-existing with a physical body.

Creationism : I think it is strange that the majority of the great prophets of the present & the past stood against the establishment of religous institutions & ammassing wealth in the name of those institutions to manipulate or even force compliance with their beliefs alienating those who don't.
Buddha ( 6th century BC), also known as Siddhartha Gautama, was born into a rich family of a northern indian ruler. After becoming aware of the suffering that occured outside the walls of his fathers palace, he became a wandering monk & for a while became a rigorous ascetic. He renounced extremes of both luxury & asceticism, he also ceased to believe in Gods. He founded a new order of monks but did not intend it to be a religion. His teachings were maintained by oral tradition for about 400 years before they were written down for the first time.
Jesus ( 4 BC - 27 AD ?) was to an extent a jewish teacher & prophet, revered by present christians as the son of God. Like confucius, he left no written works, what we know about him comes from accounts written at least a generation after his death. Was hated by the established jewish authorities & considered a trouble maker by both church & the occupying romans. He never tried to establish his own religion, church or tow the line with any belief system & try to enforce it.
" My uniform experience has convinced me that there is no other God than Truth. The only means for the realization of that truth is 'Ahisma' " ( the Hindu principle of harmlessness or non violence). Gandhi (1869- 1948).

The interpretations that followed these peoples lives evolved into something vastly different & contrary to the original concept. The main reason I feel, is yep here I go again, "MONEY". Parasites that attach to the host & drain them for all they have, for entirely selfish reasons. Today you hear about top paid actors & musicians saying that they agree they get paid too much, but if they don't the people promoting them will take much more than is necessary for themselves e.g Harrison Ford getting $ 40 million per film as opposed to a new actor who might get $50,000. Due to advancements in legal systems, copyrighting etc. Ford knows that the people wanting to use him would take $200 million & give him $50,000 if they could, using his image & personality for their own gain.
The thing with Jesus & Buddha is they had no idea how many would see their arrival on the scene as an opportunity to milk people of money, by pretending they had beliefs in alignment with their idol.

The point here is, most of the great prophets religous leaders of the past were not interested in pushing creationism, their main interests were just getting along with each other & encouraging people to do good things not because there was the likelihood of retribution from a God, but because that is what is the right thing to do.

I'd better cut my theorising short here, as I wanted to expand on the evolution & intervention concepts & I'm gettin sore, until later today.

Good journeys all

Mobius

[Mobius]

Hi all again

Evolution : There is no doubt that some sort of evolution or adaption is taking place & it appears to be happening in every generation. At an atomic level the whole earth as far as we know recycles the same atoms over & over, which means that somehow atoms that exist on the planet in one form such as a tree or a fish or something cease to be & their atoms under the influence of some force, realign using some or all of their ingredients/atoms to produce a new something e.g. a human being.

At the molecular level is DNA (Deoxyribonucleic acid) , an amazing thing on it's own & was somehow known to ancient & present shamans to resemble what scientist know today as the double helix shape of DNA or two little serpents or snakes entwined with each other, basically looking like the medical symbol you see at chemists/pharmacies/hospitals & the kundalini symbol.

A study was performed by a guy called Jeremy Narby an anthropologist, to find out how isolated tribes in the amazon came to know about certain things, his book was called "The cosmic serpent". He wanted to know how they came up with their own brand of medicine, psychology & beliefs, similar to western medicines,  the knowledge however was gained through their own sources, their Shamans. They came up with compounds consisting of 2 or 3 varieties of plants to treat different ailments or to create a specific effect. In one case they made an OBE inducing compound which consisted of one plant that had incredible effects on the body & mind, but was neutralised in the stomachs acids, the second plant was to counteract this neutralizing effect & allow the first plants chemicals to be absorbed by the body. How did they know which plants to combine out of the 80,000 possible species in the amazon. Narby was told by the Shamans that the serpents inside them told them which plants to use! In fact the Shamans believed that the serpents were in every living thing & were basically the physical rulers of the earth. The same ones that ancient Olmecs, Mayans, Aztecs worshipped & the same ones revered by present day asians (the dragon) & Australian aboriginals (the serpent), coincidence?

At the cellular level there is single celled organisms & multicellular organisms & 3 main varieties of cells represent the majority of cells in the living world. Archaea, Bacteria & the Eukarya, a eukaryotic cell holds 1000 times the volume of the other two. Every gamete or sex cell of a multicellular organism forms into either a sperm or an egg, which in turn, develops into a fish, dog, horse, coral, humans, depending on their blueprint.

Scientists acknowledge that us humans share some similar DNA with other organisms on the planet, but so far Darwins missing link has not been found, i.e the fossilized remains of the link between man & apes, so far a satisfactory transition has not been proved. Primates have 48 chromosomes & us humans are considered vastly superior to them but have only 46 chromosomes, strange.

Arghh!!!! too much thinking, I'll have to get to the alien intervention tomorrow, until then goodnight, good day & good journeys all.

Mobius

[cainam_nazier]

Mobius,

   As always you have some interesting thoughts on this subject and I thank you for sharing.  Do you tend to lean towards any one particular thought on this or do you rather believe parts from each?  Or are perhaps like me who would like it much better to have some facts either through science or experience before "selling myself" on one particular view?
   Because of my experiences and way of thinking I tend to lean towards evolution.  This being largly since I have never seen/felt a god nor have I seen aliens, also I find it hard to believe almost all abduction stories.  Most things being a product of the times.  Heck look back 50 years and how they thought space suits would look.  They are nothing like what they actually use today.  They also thought that we would have gotten a lot farther than we have by now.  I am ofcourse not say that aliens don't exist, infact I have seen more evidence for aliens than I have god.  But I don't think they are doing all the wild experiements on us that some people may think.  

 I often wonder though what drives a person to feel the need to have a god or be part of some greater good.  I see this alot.  As people get old and near death they suddenly become highly religious.  Most have not seen or felt anything different but they feel death creeping up on them and feel the need to be "forgiven".  This ofcourse being so that they can die with a clear mind.   I personally don't feel I need an explination of what happens when I die.  I know my thoughts, I know my actions, I know what choices I have made and what the results are from them.  Currently I am still happy about the over all outcome.  Granted there are a few things that I would have like to do differently but I know that it is not possible, I have said my "sorries" to those people I have hurt already, and I know that asking for forgivness from a higher source will not change the lives of the people I have effected at all.  It changes only my view point on it.  But I feel that it does not make it any more or less okay.

I rambling again.....toodles.


David Rogalski
cainam_nazier@hotmail.com
I am he who walks in the light but is masked by the shadows.

[Mobius]

G,day Cainam

I don't lean towards anything I said in particular as science & religion is progressive, they both have huge innacuracies in their bibles & textbooks, that don't corroborate with any real facts, however they both stamp their feet on the ground & demand that this is how things are, when in reality any criticism of the paradigms from it's members or outsiders is stifled through their "peer review processes", so as not to step on anyones beliefs, pride or ego's. The reality of life is, things change & we have to be careful to realise that or be trapped in the past, prefering to believe in one particular thing because that's what feels comfortable, the unknown for many is what we tend to fear or predjudice, even hate, because those unknowns are not familiar to us.

I do like to experience things for myself or see at least some corroborating evidence or facts, I guess that's why I drifted out of religion, but I have never dismissed the idea of Gods or should I say highly advanced beings. Not because I hope to curry their favour, but because it's entirely plausable that there IS far more advanced beings than us humans out there. Two thousand years ago seeing a UFO would be an indescribable event, let alone getting to talk to the occupants of the craft. With technology like nothing ever seen before & their arrival from the sky or space would seem to them to be nothing other than Gods, especially if they came in human form. Today we have space travel ourselves & are not as likely to believe that something or someone arriving from outer space would be a God. The Nazca lines always puzzles me & no definate answer has been found to that riddle yet, but one fact remains, you can only see the drawings from an aircraft & the date of the drawings were determined to have been made long before humans were supposed to have any flying type transports.

I have family who believe they are Atheists (which I'm not), but will sometimes say " I am in control of everything in my life, but some things are beyond my control" or "certain things are Gods will" or " that storm was an act of God". So they still believe some higher force is responsible for things they don't understand as yet.

I like this passage from Marion Weinstein's "Positive magic" :
" Because religions are no longer relevant to some in modern life, they throw out the entire package, the religion & any idea of a God. I do not believe that rejecting all is a thoughtful act, nor even an effective one, in terms of personal development & psychic health. Too often people transfer their feelings of awe, fear & devotion to science or another authoritative system which still denies people's own sense of power, inventive thoughts & personal responsibility".

I don't know if I've seen a God as I wouldn't know what one looked like, unless I felt it somehow. I havn't seen an alien in the physical before either, well not the ones depicted in ET, close encounters, cocoon etc. anyway. I did encounter some sort of being in an OBE once, my moon experience I posted a while back, it was incredibly vivid & wasn't good, a serious encounter with a negative, that I sensed was far more advanced than I.

I believe if there is a God, there is more than one, at the minimum a male & a female type aspect, a yin & yang, furthermore, if there is a God/s & they are entirely good, there has to be a balance to ensure their purpose & growth continues but not unchecked. In nature when one species becomes too dominant it risks wiping itself out by the intense competitivness,increasing population & fast dwindling resources needed to live & a saturation point is reached, wiping out the majority until a balance is restored.

It doesn't matter to me either way anymore as I just try to do what is right, get on with everyone & keep an open & curious mind to everything. There is not much I can do about the fact that some day I will definately die, but I might as well find out about as many ideas, beliefs & concepts as I can & try to make as many well educated decisions as possible.

Until next time
Good journeys cainam

Mobius

[cainam_nazier]

That's why I started this topic.  Since my beliefs do not include an all superior being in control of my life.  I don't believe in predestination, however I do believe in fate.  And before you ask they are not the same thing.  Untilmately I decide whats going on.  I on the other hand do not make references to god.  As in "he is punishing me" or "It's god will"  or anything like that.   I sum up most of the things that I don't know about with the phrase "Life is funny like that!", or "That's what makes things interesting."  I do not blame god nor give him credit.  It just is.  

Although I have always thought it would be really funny if some alien race showed up and said we were all crazy and they put us he and had the "photos" to prove it.  "See there's Pual and Helga, we started with them."  "Here is us given the Microwave to science." and so on.  I would find that really amusing.


David Rogalski
cainam_nazier@hotmail.com
I am he who walks in the light but is masked by the shadows.

[Mobius]

Yes, good topic Cainam, thanks for starting it & for the reading I've done because of it.

I like to think that if there is any higher being/s looking over us, they are giving us good advice, but who knows, I guess we'll find out soon. The alien intervention thing has sprung up more & more lately & there's quite a few institutions established all around the globe now that either directly reference aliens or redescribe them so as not to cause panic. The Raeliens openly say aliens, from where I don't know. Others like the freemasons are supposed to have beliefs about the Pleidians, the Rosicurian order if I remember right, had something similar. Many other little cults & sects believe in some sort of connection with Pleides, Sirius & Orion, the Wingmakers site says that we were visited by ourselves or other humans from the future, a huge site with a fairly complex story & very interesting. Things are moving quickly these days & our information & technology advancements will hopefully allow us to check further into the claims of these institutions.

The hubble telescope recently viewed a galaxy that looked similar to ours & had planets & all, some even in positions relative to their sun to theoretically support life, maybe it's the dudes from battlestar gallactica looking over at earth from their planet thinking 'mmmm, cool, if we stuff this planet we can always go there, they wont mind, will they? we look just like them', hehe.

Thanks again mate & look forward to some more semi-postulation, quite enjoyable, good journeys & good day sir.

Mobius

[Mobius]

Hi guys

I just thought I would add these links I thought were thought provoking & I like to see information from everyones viewpoint, these links do not represent any particular beliefs I have, I just like to see what various people are thinking about. These sites are pretty big & contain heaps of info on points raised on this topic, so have fun & let me know what you think or if you have any similar links you know of.

Revolution against Evolution
http://www.rae.org/

Anthropology Human origins
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/5579/TA2.html

Ancient Astronauts
http://ufos.about.com/cs/ancientastronauts/index_1.htm

Raeliens
http://www.rael.org/int/english/index.html

Wingmakers
http://www.wingmakers.com

Gnosis
http://www.astrologyforthepeople.com/

2012
http://www.2012.com.au/Site.A.html

Talk origins
http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/other-links.html

Good journeys all

Mobius

[cainam_nazier]

That was some interesting reading.  

I found it odd that some of the changes mentioned by some, that are going on in the human body are things that I am experiencing.  So the question comes.  Are they right?  Or is based not so much on the past but what is happening to a lot of people now?  Sort of a transition, an awakening of the mind, for every one.  Interesting.  

We shall see.


David Rogalski
cainam_nazier@hotmail.com
I am he who walks in the light but is masked by the shadows.

[Mobius]

Hey Cainam

I guess, that's the question everyone asks of any religion, belief or faith they get invoved with, to get to the bottom of any of these beliefs & faiths & to prove or disprove them, would cost thousands, even millions, have you chasing things all over the world & you would need one hell of a security clearance to get to the heart & genesis of the info.

 Each & every one of those sites have some element of truth to them & for all we know fact, I still pick up the bible & 1/2 of it has words that make you think, " that fits with me pretty good". Even if one of those sites were true, how exiciting, but to be fair, the bible & science have had the weight of multimillion dollar academic scrutiny, ripping apart every statement made by the other, whereas, these guys aren't attracting the big bucks that would attract the time & attention of other religions & science.

So as readers, the best we can do is to see if we can cross check any of this info with existing sources.

Good journeys mate

Mobius

[alpha]

heres what I lean to now,I believe that god is love,love is god.I dont think he is either male or female unless thats what you see god as.God can take any shape or form.It all depends on what you want god to be.So many people believe in a him and put so much effort into prayer.

That has to make some kind of an impression on the astral.Somewhere up high there is a great source of energy.This explains to me why some peoples prayers do get answered.And I also believe that god is everything.God is far to small a word for what this being really is.God is infinity.

I dont think there is just one universe.Or all the dimensions that we know excist.I think they are infinite also.I think everthing is just a part of something bigger,and it keeps on going both ways forever.This is god to me.We were designed by love,for only the purpose to love.Thats why when we start to hate.We feel like crap.Its not what we were made to do.Just you cant have good without evil.I read somewhere that everything would collapse on to itself without this balance.

And I feel there more than enough proof that satan exists.But not a red devil with a fork.haha,Everytime I think of satan.I see "him"as the gay  red dude from south park and it cracks me up.But all you have to do is look around and you will see "him" in people.You will see "him" on the news.You know how crazy the world is right now thats satan.But all you have to do is change your point of view and you will see only god/love..I didnt come here for an arguement.I only wanted to share what I believe.

Money is what is worshipped most in the world.And that is like bowing down to satan himself..lol.....I hope you understand what im trying to say here,and dont mind the humor.Im just in one of those moods.

These are all the answers I feel I need to know.If we knew all the answers.Life would be very dull.And if we had even better technology.Someone would end up miss using it for there own gains.And we would be all disintigrated by some crazy plasma ray of death..lol

I read some of your posts,its too hot in here.I couldnt read them all.But I liked some of your ideas.

You know this is a good topic to discuss.Because we all could be wrong.So there really is no use to argue about it. :)especially when its 100 degrees in your room........





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"WAKE UP!WAKEUP!WAKE UP AND LOOK AROUND YOU!WERE LOST IN SPACE AND THE TIME IS OUR HOME"
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[Mobius]

G,day mate

Not sure who you were addressing there, but I agree with a lot of what you say. Arguements? I didn't think we were arguing about this & I hope others havn't declined to post because they feel it could become too hot.

Please, everyone & anyone put forth your ideas & beliefs, there is so much we could all learn.

Personally, I don't have any of the answers, all I can work with is what I know, from either physical information sources, probably no where near being a primary source. Or information gleaned off the astral in one way or another, which is not easily verified.

I would love to hear from any asian members of this forum, especially if they are in an asian country, as to what guides they see, the stuctures on the astral, higher & lower entities, encounters with any asian deities & is there many authors or institutions they know of that deals with OBE,s & the astral planes?

Good journeys all

Mobius

[cainam_nazier]

I remember watching this really funny episode of "The Kids in the Hall", is that right?  Any how.  They did a little bit about heaven and hell.  

There was this large group of people all standing around and this tour guide guy comes up and starts introducing them to hell and thier eternal fate.  I remember this one guy piped up, "But I've been a devote Christian all my life, there must be some kind of mistake."

"No theres no mistake."

"But then why am I here."

"It was the Mormons.  Yeah, they were right all along.  Well, sorry, that's just how these things work."

I thought it was funny when I saw it.  I couldn't stop laughing.

David Rogalski
cainam_nazier@hotmail.com
I am he who walks in the light but is masked by the shadows.

[alpha]

hey mobius,how are ya!
I didnt mean anyone in particular.Just kind of a reminder to everyone and myself as well.After all I havnt even read the whole thread.But I know how this can sometimes turn out.Kind of like whats going on in the middle east for ages.

Heres some more ideas Ive got.I dont really think it matters if you believe in a god or not.If you are a good person you will end up in a good place.The belief systems that have been implanted in our minds.They are much to complicated.They make it so hard for people to live with themselves.According to the bible most the things we do and like are all sins.

Sorry I dont mean to offend anyone.Im just saying what I feel.Im just using the bible because thats what I was forced to grow up with.And Im guessing alot of you are the same.Most people that go to church  every sunday.Are only going because they are afraid if they dont,they will wind up burning in hell for eternity.To me this is wrong why bother going.You should go only if you really want too.This is only the tip of a very big iceburg.

I may be making a blanket statement with that.But I feel it is somewhat true.And ive got other very good reasons why I stopped going.(no I didnt get molested by a priest,dont even go there..lol)But im just going to bite my tongue on that...:)But I was wrong to stop believing in god,for 'he' didnt have anything to do with whats going on..I believe that jesus lived and he was a great man.But he was not the son of god,he was the son of man.He was just one of us.One who could only love.

He was given special powers by a higher being.Because back than they didnt have the things we do now.That was the only way people would listen.Im sure you would listen too if you saw him walking on water.I know I would.I dont really think the ten commandments came from god.And all the other rules.They dont even go along with jesus's words.

Why couldnt they make it simple.Love yourself and everyone and everything.Forgive and forget,always do your best,dont assume things about people,something like this everybody would be so happy and the world would be great.Hah Im dreaming again...:)see if you do this things there is no way you can hurt someone  intentionaly..you dont need all those rules.They are just a recipe for disaster.

Ive spent a long time trying to get away from my beliefs.But its finally paying off.I have a hard time killing bugs these days...heheh,if I see one around my house and my girlfriend freaks out.Ill take the time and let it outside.But this is me.Hey I like to be this way.I believe in karma.I know nothing bad will happen if I kill a bug.But I think how would I feel if someone just stepped on me on purpose.Life is life not matter how big or how small this is how I feel.Mosquitos those are a dif. story..lol

Ah a few more things.I dont think it matters if there is a god or not.The only thing that matters is that you believe.When you believe something.Whatever it is,it becomes very real to you.I think our minds are more powerful than we can imagine.If you feel you are already strong enough and dont need god.I think you should listen closely right now.We have all these useless fears implanted in our minds.Even the strongest people are afraid.They just do a better job at hiding it..:)We cant get away from this.

If one day you find yourself paralyzed with fear.Why not believe there is a god there pushing you on and guiding you.The stronger you believe the less you will fear and you will find yourself walking.And I think you can take this even further.If you can believe there is an army of god walking with you.I think you could take off and fly.(not literally)This is what I think faith really is.If you were on the astral I think you would actually see someone right there behind you.Maybe I get a little carried away.But I feel that there arent any limits.

This is why I believe now.I know that its only going to help me get further.So I ask you why not??Life can be easy sometimes.But sometimes it will kick your butt.And worst!Im sick of putting  it all on myself.Eventually all the people you love will die.I have trouble dealing with pets dying never mind people.So I am a believer..I dont think I am weak at all.Ive gotten this far all alone(my girlfriend only came to me a few years ago)and ive came close to killing myself,more than a few times in my past..But I never could,no matter how much it hurt.,I could just take it all on myself.Ive done it before..But I dont think I would be as happy as I could be..


cainam_nazier
haha I think I saw that,coincedence or what?? that may be the only episode watched from kids in the hall....

















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"WAKE UP!WAKEUP!WAKE UP AND LOOK AROUND YOU!WERE LOST IN SPACE AND THE TIME IS OUR HOME"
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[Mobius]

G,day Alpha

Good to hear about your experiences with religion & once again I'm going to have to vehemently agree with you.

"If you are a good person, you will go to a good place"

That I believe is the true meaning of words spoken by people like, Jesus, Buddha & Mohhamed.Truly great, great men of love, understanding & compassion.

The ten commandments supposedly passed to Noah are strikingly similar to concepts the egyptians wrote in the book of the dead, before Noah's time. Instead of "I will not kill" " I will not steal" etc it became "Thou shalt not kill" & " Thou shalt not steal" etc. Even the lords prayer was similar.

The word "Christ" was borrowed from the greek word "Kristos", meaning "King" & once again revolved around ancient egyptian beliefs of Gods, but was somehow down the centuries turned into "Christ, the son of God".

Last night my girlfriend & I went to dinner with some friends of ours, one of whom is a priest. When he found out I was doing science at uni, he started talking about evolution & how they have it all wrong, he didn't expect me to agree with a lot of what he said & assumed I had taken a stance against religous interpretations, but was even more stunned when I said scientists/ physicists believe the big bang started everything, but admit they come unstuck by the same arguement pointed at religions, "What came before that? How did the energy for the big bang come into existence?".

Anyway, good to hear from ya alpha, good journeys mate.

Mobius

[WalkerInTheWoods]

Alpha, I think that most religions' origins start off with "Love everyone and be happy". But a few men twist them to gain power over others and religions then "evolve" into something more political. If you pay attention Jesus was teaching this, but his teachings have been twisted. I do not believe that Jesus was any god any more than you or me. He was just gifted as you put it and enlightened. He tried to teach these things to people but again the message was twisted to benifit a few. From my studies Jesus was trying to liberate people from religion, not create a new one. I guess most people just are not ready for this freedom and to seek for themselves.