What is magic?

[alchimiste]

Everything is magic!!!

[gdawson6]

any technology significantly more advanced than what we know is indistinguishable for magic.

[beav31is]

what if its not technology?

[Nick]

Hi beav31is,

Sometimes when I see the word magic in the context of a spiritual/metaphysical topic it refers to the wiccan and pagan type. So perhaps a broader definition would include that. In any event, your post got me interested in doing a Google search, and this interesting website popped up:

http://www.magick.com.au/community/

Very best,

[no_leaf_clover]

this board should probably be spelled 'magick' instead of 'magic'.. 'magic' is more commonly used for slight of hand, while 'magick' is different.

you could use magick and belong to many different religions, but the basic concept is that everything is energy on one level or another, and the human mind/spirit can alter that energy if it wants.

when you perform magick/a ritual/etc., what you want is set into motion to eventually happen somehow. you have to have confidence in your spell/ritual, have some energy built up your in chakras to use, and be very focused and concentrated on what you are doing, constantly thinking about what you want done.

there are all kinds of ways of going about doing those things.. whats great about magick is that anything goes. its all mental. you make your own truth. thats what lets the spells on sites like www.spellsandmagic.com or anywhere else, really, work.

there are articles on this site about astral magick.. this is about the same thing, only in the astral.

[bomohwkl]

Telekinesis -magic, levitation-magic, mind over matter-magic.
Just like a cavemen in 20 000 years visiting the modern techno exhibition.[].
Magic is a word use to refer the lack of knowledge and understanding about it. There is nothing paranormal except the lack the knowledge. We should use, telekinesis -knowldge, levitation-knowledge.....
Magic is nothing to do with rituals.
Just my humble opnion.

[no_leaf_clover]

maybe it's my opinion the sky is red. [|)]

if you don't think magick has anything to do with rituals or spells, do some research on it.. quick research: google.com. telekinesis, psychokinesis, etc.. are just that.. kinesises.. back in the 1700's, someone could easily confuse such things for magick due to a lack of knowledge, but back then, anything unexplained was magic (ie births of animals such as mice).

forget the idea that 'magic' is the same thing as any kinesis.. two completely different things, related only by the fact that they are both metaphysical. just look it up, man.

[bomohwkl]

What I actually mean is that ritual masks out the truth of 'magic'. Rituals are not required to preform 'magic'!!

[Adrian]

Greetings everyone,

Magic has nothing to do with spells and rituals per se, and they are definitely not required to bring results. Spells, rituals, candles, and other instruments, are merely tools which people use to provide the necessary focus, energy and intent directed towards the universal laws and energies, in order to manifest the desired results.

Magic in its highest form involves working directly as an aspect of, and in total harmony with the universe,The All, Spirit.

Magic is also very often confused with sorcery and other such practices.

With best regards,

Adrian.

[Nick]

Thanks Adrian,

I hadn't really thought of "magic" before other than one would think of a tv magician. The only other related word I came across had the "k" tacked onto the end with the ritual related connotation.

quote:
Originally posted by Adrian

Magic in its highest form involves working directly as an aspect of, and in total harmony with the universe,The All, Spirit.

Can you recommend any books or websites that touch on the concept in your quote? I like what you had to say there and would enjoy reading any related material.

Very best,

[Lysear]

I'm impressed no-one has regurgitated the traditional golden dawn definition of magick yet (or not word for word any way!) this is a good thing, because the way i see it, magick comes in all sorts of packages, and the golden dawn system is just one of those, albeit a famous one. Magick, for me is all about the special feelings associated with the metaphysical. The tools, the sigils, the hand movements, its these special bits and bobs that attracted me to it in the first place.

[Adrian]

Greetings Nick,

quote:Originally posted by Nick

Thanks Adrian,

I hadn't really thought of "magic" before other than one would think of a tv magician. The only other related word I came across had the "k" tacked onto the end with the ritual related connotation.

The "k" was added by Aleister Crowley. The general opinion seems to be that he added the "k" so as not confused it with stage magic, illusionists etc. With Aleister Crowley things were very rarely that simple however, and this is just such an example it seems. Aleister Crowley often had much deeper motives, and I reckon that this is most certainly no exception. I don't want to go to deeply into this matter of the "k", but suffice it to say that "Magick" is now generally considered to be the spelling for Crowley's idea of Magick. Wicca also uses the spelling "Magick" because Gerald Gardner who constructed Wicca, largely obtained much of the Wiccan ideas, rituals etc. directly from Crowley himself and who he knew very well.

If you think about it, adding a "k" for the reason of identifying it from Magic is completely superfluous anyway. If you are speaking about Magic(k) with someone, then the spelling will not arise in the conversation, it will be obvious what is being said and in what context. If you are reading about it, then again, the words will speak for themselves. If anyone saw "Magick" written down in isolation, it would rightly be assumed to be a spelling mistake.

Magic is a sacred science, originating from the Magi, the highest initiates, involving full identification with universal laws, and there is absolutely no justification in altering the spelling.

With best regards,

Adrian.

[Rob]

"Magick is the Science and Art of causing Change to occur
in conformity with Will." - Crowley

hehehe
sorry had to be done
and I fully agree with above definition. Except perhaps that it doesn't emphasise how the change is directly caused by the will.
And I like the k! I think it is necessary to distinguish true magick between stage trick magic. If someone think its a spelling mistake then chances are they have barely heard of real magick anyway!

Rob

[Euphoric Sunrise]

I consider magic to be 'simple' things like the sun rising/setting, the moon and the night sky, friendship, music etc. - the things some might take for granted.
Magick on the other hand is, i think, perfectly defined with that Crowley quote Inguma posted. So spells/sigils and such would be magick. I think i read a (Crowley?) quote once also describe the writing of a book as magick. And the different tools used to publish it etc. as being a part of it. I wish i had saved it somewhere now.

[dino333]

If I was to go out in my school and say "I practice astral projection", the first thing most of them would say is "Ha, he thinks he's Harry Potter, look at the 'magical' guy"
 Most people use the term "magic" to describe anything that science can't, which is totally wrong. Most of it, like psionics, is purely energy manipulation, and is readily understandable. As for real magic, I have no clue.

[Adrian]

Greetings no_leaf_clover,

quote:Originally posted by no_leaf_clover

this board should probably be spelled 'magick' instead of 'magic'.. 'magic' is more commonly used for slight of hand, while 'magick' is different.

It never ceases to suprise me just how much Crowley has managed to confuse things regarding Magic! It won't be the first time - his "love is the law, love under will" was responsible for the sexual revolution of the sixties when everyone misunderstood "love".

The fact is, as I have said before, Magic has always been Magic since time immemorial, named after the highest initiates - the Magi. Magic is the highest and most sacred science involving alignment with and utilsation of universal laws.

It is of no importance that illusionists, charalatans, prestidigitators and others have hijacked the word "Magic". Does it matter to true magicians what the charlatans call their trade anyway?

There is not much doubt that Crowley added the "k" for "other" reasons, and not for what people might think, and certainly not for this "to differentiate it from stage magic" thing.

If people saw the word Magic(k) written down, they are hardly going to say to themselves "ahh yes, that means it is not stage magic" - people not involved in magic do not think that way. If they saw the word "magick" written down, they would likely think it is a spelling error which in fact it more or less is.

with best regards,

Adrian.

[Rob]

OK I'm going to jump in again here.

Many people who practise, infact most who I have come across, *do* use the magick spelling, simply to differentiate themselves from the other ground. Myself, I definately use it - and if someone else sees me writing this, and dont know much about real magick (hehe), I would hope that they might wonder "why is it being spelled like that?" - if they knew me they certainly would teehehehe. The fact is that the word has not just been hijacked - its use for 99.9% of the population simply means conjureres. It has been totally derailed and trampled on as a word, meaning something totally contrary to what it should. Myself, I prefer not to associate the art of magick with cheap stage shows [}:)]. Even if it just makes me feel a bit better!

OK so the word came from magi - but the roman alphabet is not that old in the big old scheme of things. If you are looking at the root of the word, and the word" magi" really is very old, then the spelling is simply a phoenetic thing anyway. So you might as well use either spelling.

But yes, crowley probably did just change the spelling (if it was him who did it originally) just to "mystify" it a bit. I will concede to that. But won't object to it! I *like* mysterious lol!

We should have a vote.....

cheers!!

Rob

[Adept_of_Light]

Magic - That which has no logical explanation, but yet was manifested. Beyond reality and defying all explanation - An illusion. Trickery!

Such meanings are complete and utter nonsense. All that happens is an effect of some cause, and all causes are actions and if it was acted once then it is a reality and all realities are possible more than once, and through repetition we may study behaviour and the HOW of occurance thus leading to understanding and an explanation. There is nothing that is, was or will be that has no explanation. Rather, it is humans who do not (yet) understand the underlying workings of seemingly magical acts that define magic the unknown manifested.


The truth my friends is that there is no magic in magic. It is only in our ignorance of reality that we consider the manifestation of the unknown to be a work of magic.

Scientists are quite right when they stand up against the claims of magic... for if it lacks logic, it can not be! However, the counter arguement is that given that Science admits to still be discovering new things each day, then by that very fact they can not claim to know everything and with that their right to state the impossibility of an unlikely but true manifestation is thus revoked from them! They do not yet know all Universal Laws, and if they ever did, discovery would cease to exist, for all would be known and all would be explainable.

In the study of magic, the only veils are the truths which we have ignored or not yet learned.

In the end, the highest magician knows there really is no magic; for he knows everything that is possible is also real and there are no mysteries - Nothing seems magical to him. When this is achieved, when no amazement is left, then real attainment has taken place.

All is natural and all within the confines of the Universal Laws is possible. Existence outside of Universal Law is an impossibility. It is only individual men blurting the "miracle" word that admit their ignorance and especially their inability.

But that too is normal.. all is as it should be, for it can not be otherwise.

Happy Contemplations
Adept of Light

[Euphoric Sunrise]

Adept of Light, that depends on your definition of magic. If magic is just causing change with your will, then something like baking a cake would be magic just as much as invoking a spirit. If that is your definition, then magic would still exist, it would just be applied in a more general way. Of course there may be no need to the word, but what the word stands for would still exist.
I hope people can undersand what i just said []

Edit: Had to change my bad cake-flying analogy. Then i had to edit the edit.

[Adrian]

Greetings everyone,

I have to agree with Adept_of_Light on his view of Magic.

As I mentioned in my other posts, Magic is an entirely natural process which utilises universal laws, correspondence, cause and effect etc.. For every effect there is always a cause, notwithstanding the fact that most people including science do not understand the cause and effect of Magic.

I think the most important point to make is that true Magic in its highest and proper form is not about spells, rituals and the like - although that might not be the case for Magic(k) []

I would cite the so called "miracles" as quoted in the bible. These might seem like "miracles" to most people, but in fact they were nothing more than the outworkings of natural universal laws.

With best regards,

Adrian.

[goingslow]

yeah i woke up early this morning and it was magic.. brewed some coffee which again took some magic.

I personally like definitions that cloud the issue less and tell a person who doesn't practice "magik" or really know what it means to practice it what the heck it is.

This "magic is everything you do there is no definition" type of thing really says nothing at all and smells of keeping your secrets or trying to be intentionally enigmatic which is annoying.

Why does true and high magic not involve spells or ritual but magik might.  Is that another slight on crowley?  The more I read about that guy and the types of people he bothers the more I want to read his work.

I thought the spelling wasn't necessary so why then is there a distinction?

[Adrian]

Greetings Goingslow,

The reason I said that Magic(k) might inlude spells and rituals is for no other reason that the people who spell it that way do tend to focus on spells and rituals. Let me say straight away that there is nothing wrong with spells and rituals, they are just another tool for manifestation, specifically the direction of intent, energy and focus.

What this thread is really about is defining true Magic which requires non of the above, because a true Magician understands how to align him/herself with universal laws and bring about the desired results naturally, and without all of the theatricals.

Everything is Magic (as Alchimiste pointed out), because each cause has a corresponding effect. Magic is about higher causes, and hence the phrase "High Magic".

High Magic is no more about spells and rituals therefore than it is about illusionists and prestidigitators.

With best regards

Adrian.

[Rob]

"High Magic is no more about spells and rituals therefore than it is about illusionists and prestidigitators."

Magick and high magick use the same forces, unlike illusionist who just use slight of hand to achieve nothing. The rituals and spells are tools. An artist might use a brush, or his fingers, but he is still an artist either way. However someone who hangs pictures he didn't make on walls and says "look at this!! look at me!!!" is not an artist, he's a charlatan. But if everyone thought that this is all that artists do, maybe the real artists would prefer to call themselves painters or etc.

[Adept_of_Light]

Dear goingslow,

If you were to take your coffee machine and walk up to village of tribal men who never before saw a "civilized" human, let alone a coffee machine and you started serving up expressos... would they not think you and your diabolical machine to be magical? Would they not ooohhh and ahhhh at your every action ?

As I've stated before, "it is humans who do not (yet) understand the underlying workings of seemingly magical acts that define magic the unknown manifested.".

There is nothing more magical about your coffee machine as there is about levitation. The difference is you understand how your coffee machine works but not how levitation does.

But the concept of magic, in a more spiritual sense, *IS* far more than just mere knowledge, it is more than just the ability to control the manifestation of that knowledge, it transcends powers or fancy manifestations all together. Magical acts, powers and special abilities to the spiritual aspirant are actually distractions he should not pay much attention to, because the real magic is at the end of the path, not in the side-alleys with glittery lights and temptation.

Things magical, are not completely secret knowledge because there are people who know it, it is however hidden from those that are not yet ready to use it.  

In the same way that a tribal man might hurt/burn his hand handling the coffee machine or get electrocuted if he is not careful with the electrical cord, in a similar way there are dangers of varying degrees for those that perform magic without understanding exactly what they are doing or have little control of their performance/ritual/will etc.

If you search long enough, you WILL find books that'll teach you how seemingly amazing magical things might be performed, but what you will also discover is that the Holy Mysteries, the most seemingly amazing magical acts - ARE SELF-REVEALING and no book or collection of words in conveyed language shall bestow upon you the power to control the manifestation of magical acts. Like everything else worthy of achieving in life, you will have to work for it. Only when you are ready (read: have done the necessary preliminary work) will the veil be dropped and the mystery revealed, and then my friend, there will be nothing magical about it because it will be completely natural to you.  As natural as operating a coffee machine!

There are dozens, no hundreds of definitions of magic out there. Everybody and their grandma can give you one, and it would be hard to get everybody to agree on one. This is so because people are all at different levels of evolution and have had different levels of experience in magical arts, so what is little more than natural for one person might be a HUGE revelation or scary power to another person. The definitions vary according to one's perspective, experience and understanding - as is the case with anything else. For me to give you my definition would almost be pointless and take away from your ability to reach the same conclusion on your own, through self-discovery. I do not wish to take away from you the magical experience that such a process might provide you with. Some things are better left to self-discovery, rather than attaining quick answers which in themselves contain only words, words, words and no real magic []

Take good care,
Adept of Light

[goingslow]

Adept of light,

Thank you for the explanation.  It makes a lot more sense to me what people mean by that expression.  Its just past 4 am so I cant think of anything else to say.. thank god for that miraculous coffee. Im sure they'd also be impressed at the waking up effect my medicine would have =)