Who's more powerful: Men or Women?

[Lilith]

The person who's put in the time,effort,and energy tobuild theskills is most "powerful".
Men and women think differently, hence they access energy differently.
Don't ask me how it's different, 'cause I haven't done both this timearound.
[]
I do know that watching my husband cast can make me itch to do it my way, but casting with him doesn't do that.
That's more like a symbiotic partnership.

[Nagual]

My personal opinion:

Women have more power and less inhibitions.
Men have more (self-)"control" on the little power they have.

Hum... don't ask me why! []
Women are scary!!! [:O][]

[Aristoles]

Women are more likely to start using it,i dont know why.
But when men finally get the thumbs out of the arse they have more power.

Women=Speed=Goes on fast,but halts on difficulties.

Men=Power=Goes on slow,but does not stop.

[xardas]

I think women can be more focussed building up more energy for their spells and stuff.
Men can be more focussed on the thing they use magic on, so they can use less energy for the same results.

So in general: men are the better attackers and women are the better defenders.

[Links Shadow]

If you use magic to fight you need to find a better use for your time.

I don't think that there is any difference between the sexes when it comes to magic but it does depend on how much they believe in it.

[shaman]

Concerning the occult... I have seen/met many women who had gifts, mediums, sometimes throwing spells, reading the future in a cup of coffee, etc... I haven't seen many men capable of that, however I have heard of men who knew more than what they showed... they knew about the death of other poeple before it happens, or about their own death...

In the physical... it is big and green....

[shadowdancer]

Namaste,
    i couldnt resist! (pun #1).  the "juice" is the key!!(pun #2).  imho, in order for men to come(pun #3)close(pun #3cont.) to women in their(womens) ability to cultivate and manifest magickal energy, there absolutely (as much as there can be such a thing) has to be a conservation of "juice", or semen.  taoist yoga is essential for this.  for a women, sex is her birthright/magickal power and there is literally no end(pun #4) to her ability to perform(pun #4 cont.).  for a male with no cultivation of original essence and the ability to hold and transmute sexual fluid(semen); there is no hope....its kinda funny cause you could look at the demonization of women as temptress because the male just couldnt resist!(see pun #1!)  namaste

[Lilith]

Namaste
What a punny fellow you are, Shadowdancer!
[]
Interesting thoughts, and born out by historical records.
However, traditionally the most powerful woman magically speaking is the Crone, the woman who has matured beyond the age of fertility.
What are your thoughts on this?

[WalkerInTheWoods]

I really do not see a difference between the sexes. And I think powerful is a relitive term.

Feminine energy is usually associated with mystical, spiritual, psychic energies while masculine is more grounded. Since we all have both energies within us, it is only a matter of accessing them, then the physical sex is not important.

quote:Namaste,
i couldnt resist! (pun #1). the "juice" is the key!!(pun #2). imho, in order for men to come(pun #3)close(pun #3cont.) to women in their(womens) ability to cultivate and manifest magickal energy, there absolutely (as much as there can be such a thing) has to be a conservation of "juice", or semen. taoist yoga is essential for this. for a women, sex is her birthright/magickal power and there is literally no end(pun #4) to her ability to perform(pun #4 cont.). for a male with no cultivation of original essence and the ability to hold and transmute sexual fluid(semen); there is no hope....its kinda funny cause you could look at the demonization of women as temptress because the male just couldnt resist!(see pun #1!) namaste

I am not so sure that the semen has to contain the energy. I think that the man can retain the energy and still expel the semen. But retaining the semen can be beneficial and probably necessary to one that cannot retain the energy otherwise.

[shadowdancer]

Namaste,
    ahhh the crone!  hmmm...i didnt mean to state the womens sexuality is her only power.  its not the sex itself, but it is, for me, the process in which a woman relates to and manifests sexual energies and play.  initiation is a good example to illustrate my opinion.  in australian aboriginal culture, men have elaborate and very often held "secret" magic ritual and ceremony.  words of power, gesture, and a complex mental framework in which to percieve life.  the women have their secret ritual as well, but not as often and not nearly as elaborate.  what does this mean?  for me, it is an indication of the natural process of a womans growth through life.  she bleeds.  if only men could understand, even intuitively the intensity of the, dare i say, enforced, psycho-physiological genetically catalysed initiatory processes.  men us tools and stories, and have developed great skill and art in these realms, in order to produce the processes which naturally happen within a woman.  please, please, men, dont think that i believe all woman are initiates...the diagram doesnt work like that.  but by default we, as men, have to work in different ways.  back to the crone...she is, for me, an archetype representing the energies necessary for a woman to integrate as she grows.  it is not healthy, imho, to become an archetype, as humans were meant to be human, and not demi-gods.  but it is an imperative to integrate those archetypal energies that live within and manifest through us, because we are all and all of the Great Spirit of all things.  for me, the crone is most powerful, in that, it is that aspect of the archetypal feminine which is death, time and the eater of all things.  vagina dentata, so to speak.  have you seen older women who are this??  they are not entirely pleasant to be around and the power they wield consumes them as well...but have you also seen(or are you being?)a woman who has done to integrate the crone??  they seem to be those ladies who are older (post-menapausal even) women who are desired(sexually and otherwise) much more than young nubile women/girls.  
fallenangel- i have found for myself; yes, to an extent, that the energy contained within the semen can be "extracted".  but, in my experience, it is a paltry sum to that seed of life itself.  my perspective-mind, body and spirit are One.

[shenron_2012]

could you explain more about what kind of strength your talking about pls tisha. if you were to do that then maybe i could put my 2 cent worth in.

[Tisha]

It was my intent to be vague; all I ask is that everyone's answers be put in a magical context.

So far, so good . . . but what about the ability to purposely manifest? to focus? to create? to DO MAGIC?  I'm talking REAL SORCERY, not armchair mysticism, and certainly not the inherent power of female sexuality (which is more a function of men's reluctance to control his urges, than of female "power" over men - - - I mean this in the historic sense, so you male individuals out there, no offense is intended!).

My opinion is based upon 20 years of observation.  In general, when it comes to sorcery and power, men are more variable than women.  

The male practitioners I have met have ranged from the unimpressive to the mindblowing.  Most were pretty pathetic, having come to the occult to find power after years of being picked on by other little boys.  They read a lot of books, wore a lot of black and silver, and copped an attitude, and that's about it. Most of these men were nothing more than poseurs; they could not even be described as sorcerers or magicians.  

HOWEVER.  The two most powerful sorcerers I've ever met were MEN!
WHY?  Many of the female practitioners I've spoken to wonder the same thing, i.e., why, when most witches are female, and most men in the magical community have so little power (relatively speaking), are the MOST powerful sorcerers men?  (Also, WHY, when the world's women do most of the cooking, are the best chefs in the world men? We wonder about that too!).  

Women seem to hug the (mediocre?) center of the power bell curve.  In general, the female sorcerers I have met are more powerful and capable than nearly all of the male practitioners around them. However, to this day I have yet to meet a female sorcerer who comes even close the two men I mentioned previously.

Perhaps a good analogy is intelligence.  Most of the insanely-high IQs belong to men (Einstein, etc. - although many women can be classified as "genius" with an IQ over 130, there are not too many female "Einsteins").  However, there are also more retarded boys than retarded girls, and 85% of the autistics in the world are male. Men embody both extremes, while women hang out closer to the center of the intelligence curve.

At least, this is what I have seen over my 20 years observing this kind of thing.  High variability in men, low variability in women.

[beavis]

Who is stronger, a person wearing a Dracula costume or a person wearing a Satan costume?

[Man Of Jade]

The most skilled person I know is female.

She can astral project on a whim if she needs to, has punched through walls (through 2x4's) without feeling a thing, can heal herself of sickness rapidly, in one case going from nearly bed-ridden to very, very few symptoms in less than 12 hours... In one case, I was at least 50-feet away through a wall or two, and she set up an energy "marker"(thats what she called it, anyway[|)]) and nearly knocked me off my feet.... I was very dizzy, lights dancing in front of my eyes, and barely stood up. There may be more skilled persons of course, but I don't know of any yet.

In spite of this, I'm keeping a neutral position[^] after all, I taught her a lot of what she knows about how to manipulate energy... Not that I can do well most of what I taught her... Student beat the teacher.[]

[Tenacious]

Ah, leave it to Tisha to bring up the conroversial topics []

As for the topic- Equal on both parts.

If you work hard at something, you will get a great reward.  Those who work harder, get the bigger reward [:p]

[shaman]

Tisha,

by the way, do you know that tisha'/tissa' means 9 in semitic languages (hebrew / arabic,..) ?

Your question, or more precisely, the precisions you gave us in your second posting, point to an evidence that is true thru history and all over the planet (unfortunately) that man is rulling the world by sheer force and that the woman has not yet be given the place she deserves, which is either next or higher than the place of man.

You could as well ask "why most of the managers are men?", why most of the cashiers are women? why there are still women not working and staying at home to take care of the children? SOme 50 years ago women did not have the right to vote in France, .. the world is still in the process of evolving, and only recently the issue of the place of the women has started to be considered, and only in a few societies... Most of the religions have been written by men for men, most of the rules of this world are so, and even in the US there are still so many things to say about it ..... Let's not even speak of the most common sexual abuse that the "boss" is "inflicting" to his female workers, ... but even when a women want to progress in her life, in her work place, in her study , in the academic, or wherever it is, IT IS THE SAME, there are men stading there in front not letting her pass... whether it is by lying, trishery, abusing, force... etc... How come most of the senator are men? Most of the governors are men? all the presidents of the uS have been men?

It has to do with the almost "archaic" form of the society, which has been that FORCE (mere physical force) is the one that decides for many things, whether in the family or at work or at school or in the university, etc....

So your question is back to the basic and as such the answer has to be digged out from there and the answer is obvious, that no matter if the woman is performing better than the man, the man is ruling the world... It will take a long time to change, we are still far from the ideal perfection... And that starts at the very begining, in the houses of people, with things such as why if both men and women work 40 h a week and make the same money, why the hell is it to the women to cook dinner? to take care of the children? etc... Even if there are exceptions to that, I believe that everything start there.

[Ceriel N]

"The soul; that's control."

Pushed to our limits there are no difference between man and women and we discover that the only limits exist in our minds.

The human with the highest IQ in our physical world (I have to say it that way.) is female.

Speaking from experience, I know that I can be very centered on my goal, almost to an obsessive degree. When I start a 'project' I devote absurd amounts of time, attention and energy to it, neglecting all else. I can not go on like this for too long as other things eventually become urgent enough for me to force a break in my concentration. Right now my 'project' is reaching the heights in the mystic world, but that's more like a life-long commitment than an actual project (Like coding an AI designed to kill other AIs. Boy did I spend time on that a few years ago...).
In regard of what Tisha mentioned, I suspect that I have a milder form of autism that basically increases concentration, and I have been told that I'm 'intelligent', but rather than beat my chest about it I'd like to let actions speak for me. So far I have next to none to show for it. I'd be a fool to claim otherwise. "Armchair mystican" suits me right in that regard. [:I]

Where was I going with this again...?
Oh yeah; concentration. Concentration is vital to focusing one's will on a goal. The greater the focus, the greater the effect. Still, concentration is not everything. Without control, concentration is wasted. One needs to learn to control one's desires, and in that regard females excel. Men on the other hand excel at concentration.


...But don't take my word for it. =P

[Tisha]

Ha ha . . . yes, I have heard some (male) magicians explain it this way:  "Men are better magicians because men can focus better than women, men are just more capable."  Which is a joke.  Men have the luxury to focus because the women are running around for them, taking care of the minutae of mundane living!

Women are Mistresses of Multitasking. We're scrubbing the toilets, changing the diapers, buying the food, hauling the water, wiping the childrens noses and asking our men "may I bring you a beer?" althewhile fussing over our faces and bodies to keep mens' attention!  

And those women who have jobs, it is usually in those career fields where they are paid to do more of the same (i.e., cooking, cleaning, nursing, attending to children and  men).  There are a few exceptions (ie., the female firefighter, independent writer, or CEO), but not enough to disprove my point.  

To live a woman's life, things move much more smoothly when one DOESN'T focus.  There is too much to attend to! Where does a woman find the time to get really GOOD at something?  The answer, unfortunately, is to say "no."  Close down the store!

But the consequences of such a radical act can seem dire to a woman who has her self-worth wrapped up in meeting other people's needs.

[Ceriel N]

I apologize if I expressed myself bluntly. It was not my intention to say that men a better; just different.
Still, with practice differences can be overcome. I for one am learning to control myself, and recently I have learned such fantastic things as humility. I value it greatly. I have learned that if I don't 'feel like doing something' I can convince myself that I am in control and do it anyway. I'm not letting my laziness control me.
I've got a lot of work on that laziness part. Trying to make it a habit that will change my character. [|)]

If I have understood it correctly, this is what woman have. - The ability to control themselves. Something which most men lack. Our desires take us by the nose and lead most of us through life; a journey that we have to do the work for completing anyway. I for one am learning to take control of the reins, and hepfully I'll be able to go where I will to go rather than where desire leads me.

And hupefully I'll make a good husband one day. [)]

[kakkarot]

don't know if anyone else has mentioned any of this yet (sorry for not reading the other posts, i'm a bit strapped for time), but there has been a study done recently which showed that men's brains were more specialized in their learning while women's are more generalized.

in other words, men tend to learn just a few skills VERY f'ing good, while women learn a whole f'ing lot of skills but at less extreme levels. whether that carries over to raw power or not, i'd tend to guess yes by just looking at the average male compared to the average female in physical strength (and it can easily be argued that whether one power or another, power is power). so likely males would win more often than females when it comes to shows of raw power (note the bell curve though).

HOWEVER, it is also well known that females are much more in tune with their emotions, and usually their energy as well. couple that with the potential for a wider variety of magical skills than males, and it strongly suggests that female magic users would more often beat male magic users in skillful competition (but once again, note the bell curve).

perhaps there is a balance overall, but when you start going down into the specific areas of magical application, some types of people just ARE better than others.

that's my opinion [|)].

~kakkarot

[Tisha]

http://www.personalmd.com/news/n0926092502.shtml

interesting article in support of the Ceriel's theory!   (Ceriel, I was not offended, I agree with you on the control part)

[jc84corvette]

Each gender is superior to its opposite in diffrent fields.

[Ceriel N]

I love being right. [8D]

The article does, however, show that the difference is purely statistical and not really written in stone. If, like you said, some of the most powerful are men, does this mean that they are better at controlling their emotions than the statistical woman? While the answer could possibly be 'yes' I'd rather say that there are other factors involved in this equation.

Tisha, you seem to have a lot more experience in this field than I do, so could you tell me, what about women and concentration? Certainly there are those that are very good at it, but what about the control aspect then?

[Tisha]

Ceriel, I cannot speak on woman's behalf on this.  I can only speak for myself, and it seems I have an unusual ability to focus. However, during different times of the month (hormones!), and when I was pregnant and nursing, well, forget it! [xx(]

A funny story:  Sometimes, on the Astral, I focus so much that the object of my attention actually catches fire!  I don't quite know what that all means (and when I lose awareness of the fact that I'm on the Astral, I think it's really happening).[:O]

Anyway, my focus is laser-sharp most of the time, and as a result, I tend to be a high-achieving person (with whatever I set my mind to). [^]

However, when I allow my focus to deteriorate, it degenerates into a contrary stubbornness.  Which is a sort of focused lack-of-focus, if that makes sense. [xx(]

As for control?  Actually, I think the ability to instinctively control ones Self has a lot to do with that magical cocktail we call "hormones."  Men and women have the same hormones, only in different concentrations.  Womens hormones can fluctuate wildly, especially with PMS and menopause, so their degree of (instinctive) control sometimes can approach that of men [].  I find it amusing how men can be so upset when the women they love start acting like . . . well, MEN! (my ex-husband used to schedule his business trips around my menstrual cycle [)]).

But CONSCIOUS CONTROL comes from Will, and from focus!  If you have the proper focus, and it is your Will to control yourself, you Will! []

[Aristoles]

We must revolt!Women break free!

I for one would love to see women get the place they deserve,equals of men.
The women are fighting,trying to break the barrier,and what do men do?Nothing.
I haven't seen any open campaigns or anything done by men for womens rights..
Let's turn the tide!