and the sun is eclipsed by the moon
quote:
Originally posted by Moonburn33
and the sun is eclipsed by the moon
Isn't it all cheese anyway... [:D][:o)][;)]
EOL: It took me a minute to catch your joke -the moon being made of cheese.
MOONBURN- Funny you should bring up the topic of the eclipse.
BLACK MADONNA IN THE BIBLE
The Jews count days from sundown to sundown. Because Night came before the Day.
Example One: Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form and void. and darkness was upon the face of the deep And the spirit of god moved upon the face of the waters."
Example Two: Samson "the sun" and DeLila "the night." Keep in mind this story is in the Bible. It is not known for being goddess friendly.
There is only ONE circumstance in which the Night overtakes the Day, and that is the Solar Eclipse.
There are many old rock carvings of sun-faces with rays so long and wavy they could easily be taken for hair. Samson had his long hair (rays, sun beams) shorn off by Delila.
Solar Eclipse In Chinese Myth: "A dragon swallows the sun. The dragon has to chased away by beating of drums and shooting of arrows into the sky."
Solar Eclipse in African Myth: "A snake emerged from the ocean and grew so large that it moved to the sky and swallowed the sun." The snake can be scared by beating of drums.
But for goodness sake, she always gives him right back. Although he might need a cigarette afterward.
Female energy is consuming. Think of this in terms of sexual intercourse. She swallows him (phallis/sperm) into her darkness to create more life.
And even the pagan gods of the (pre-Islamic) middle east are centered quite plainly on eclipse myth:
Before they were Moslems, tribes worshipped Leyla (darkness/night) and Qays (god/idol.) Forbidden to see Leyla, Qays goes mad. His name is then changed to "Majnun" meaning "Wild Man." Like any other pagan forest god, he runs into the wilderness to live among the animals.
Here I have an excerpt of the tale. The writer spells out in plain language this is a Solar Eclipse myth.
1. Every morn Mejnun went forth to school
Where, freed of care, he mastered every rule.
2. With studied ease he followed all the lines
Of Leyla: never book marked love's confines.
3. His heart with pleasure sang when'er the day
He, like the sun, pursued his constant way.
4. At school a happiness he looked to find
The happiness of love, not yet unkind.
5. When passed the day that Leyla cameth not
The sun was darkened, tho' its rays were hot.
6. All sunless sped the day, and school, as night,
Fell dark and gloomy, darkened, without light.
7. He guessed that Fortune's cunning trickster hand
Had turned from him the pleasure he had planned.
8. The jealous gossips, so the thought was born,
Upon her petalled rose had cast a thorn.
9. With grief at heart and sorrow in his mind
He railed at Fortune, calling it unkind.
1O.'What evil have I done? What left undone,
To kill my soul by banishing the sun?
11.'What sin mine, that now, in sad eclipse,
Thou dashest wine of pleasure from my lips?
A star Dragon is supposed to be the equivalent of a seraphim, which is a galactic entity, which means they are galaxies in of themselves. this info I got from micheal, Kereen, and other spirits I have spoken to.
Then I suggest you read the above again, very carefully. [;)]
quote:
Originally posted by Leyla
Then I suggest you read the above again, very carefully. [;)]
I know, you basically said the same thing[:D] I was just putting it in much fewer words wich in my view is much easier to handle. Some people like long texts and some people like to the point. Now we have both [B)]
So...you're saying the goddess is a galactic entity, a galaxy in of herself? Well. I suppose that's one way of seeing it.
I can summarize. It's very very simple.
God= The Sun.
All sun gods are born December 25th, on the winter solstice, when the days begin to grow longer.
Goddess= The Night, Draco "The Dragon"
The dark fertile womb, the dark fertile earth, the dark fertile creative chaos of space that scientists call "dark matter."
Thus patriarchal religions teach us to hate and fear the dark and the dragon, because these things belong to the goddess.
quote:
Originally posted by Leyla
So...you're saying the goddess is a galactic entity, a galaxy in of herself? Well. I suppose that's one way of seeing it.
I can summarize. It's very very simple.
God= The Sun.
All sun gods are born December 25th, on the winter solstice, when the days begin to grow longer.
Goddess= The Night, Draco "The Dragon"
The dark fertile womb, the dark fertile earth, the dark fertile creative chaos of space that scientists call "dark matter."
Thus patriarchal religions teach us to hate and fear the dark and the dragon, because these things belong to the goddess.
Actually, I am saying that the so called "goddess" is a seraphim, a servant of god.
God=The universe, a being so vast and so complex mankind still cannot grasp understanding of him/her.
Also, the dragon is in of itself a sign of loyalty, courage, honor, and wisdom. There is no need to fear the dragon.
it actually depends on what culture you follow, in hinduism, woman is the sun and man is the moon,
what it all seems to stem from is duality, which is why I think taoism doesn't need "gods" and "godesses" however taoism isn't exclusive and the concept of god can be incorperated into taoist philosophy
quote:
I have read the family names listed as those of "Alien Blood," including the Bushes. Unless it was their intent to produce an enclave of incompetent learning disabled alcoholics then the breeding program should be dismantled post haste, because it is a pathetic failure
hahaah!, that's exactly what Im saying, how could bush be so damned evil? its not that hes a really sinister evil person, its just that he's too stupid and ignorant to be a good person!
but maybe its all an act, and he goes home everynight to practise sexmagick, along with the illuminati, and the nights templar, and the queen of england, and they drink the blood of innocents.
anyhow, scientifically speaking its not an impossiblity that some reptillian creatures evolved to become sentient, and with evolved chameleon skin it would be very hard to find one, or a group (damn, if you want a challenge go try and find a bear, or a pack of wolves)
which of course also supports the bigfoot idea,
but what it all boils down to is this
Unity ---> duality --->trinity
There is a God and a Goddess. A long time ago they had sex. Scientists call this "The Big Bang."
When we look at ancient peoples and their pantheistic religions we proclaim that their Gods were the product of ignorance. We picture dumb dark primitives bowing down to rocks. We are smug in our belief that truly advanced peoples know there is *Only One God.*
It's very difficult for someone raised in this westernized way of thinking to break out of it.
Consider, if you will, the Greeks. These were an advanced and civilized people. Inventors of art, architecture, philosophy, algebra, geometry, astronomy, politics and government. Were they "mere fools" with all their gods, or were they ahead of their time, like they were with every other human advancment?
The Laws of Nature are reflections of the Divine Laws and Principles which operate in a Higher Dimensional Plane behind those of our Physical Plane.
Simply put- If sex and gender exists here, it automatically means it exists out there.
All the forces in the universe work in balanced pairs: acids and bases, protons and electrons, from the tiny double helix of DNA swirling inside each living cell; to the polar magnetic forces that keep our entire galaxy spinning and suspended in perfect balance. The Goddess and God are divided for love's sake for the chance of union. This is the Great Mystery and the Source of all Life. When you see a cell divide, you have seen The Gods.
Spiritual perfection lies not in the absence of opposing forces but in the balance of them. But this does not mean a neutered she-male "it."
Certainly, the gods are one. When they're having sex.
quote:
Originally posted by volcomstone
it actually depends on what culture you follow, in hinduism, woman is the sun and man is the moon,
Most cultures acnowledge the moon is female b/c it cycles every 28 days and so do women. It controls the tides and the female blood flow. Our modern electic lights have messed up our natural cycle, but among tribal people and the Amish, women still cycle every new moon. City women will cycle with the new moon, half moon or full moon.
Also many goddesses recieved a "sex change" when we switched from mother rule to father rule.
quote:
but maybe its all an act, and he goes home everynight to practise sexmagick, along with the illuminati, and the nights templar, and the queen of england, and they drink the blood of innocents.
ROTFLMAO!
quote:
Originally posted by Leyla
There is a God and a Goddess. A long time ago they had sex. Scientists call this "The Big Bang."
When we look at ancient peoples and their pantheistic religions we proclaim that their Gods were the product of ignorance. We picture dumb dark primitives bowing down to rocks. We are smug in our belief that truly advanced peoples know there is *Only One God.*
It's very difficult for someone raised in this westernized way of thinking to break out of it.
Consider, if you will, the Greeks. These were an advanced and civilized people. Inventors of art, architecture, philosophy, algebra, geometry, astronomy, politics and government. Were they "mere fools" with all their gods, or were they ahead of their time, like they were with every other human advancment?
The Laws of Nature are reflections of the Divine Laws and Principles which operate in a Higher Dimensional Plane behind those of our Physical Plane.
Simply put- If sex and gender exists here, it automatically means it exists out there.
All the forces in the universe work in balanced pairs: acids and bases, protons and electrons, from the tiny double helix of DNA swirling inside each living cell; to the polar magnetic forces that keep our entire galaxy spinning and suspended in perfect balance. The Goddess and God are divided for love's sake for the chance of union. This is the Great Mystery and the Source of all Life. When you see a cell divide, you have seen The Gods.
Spiritual perfection lies not in the absence of opposing forces but in the balance of them. But this does not mean a neutered she-male "it."
Certainly, the gods are one. When they're having sex.
Leyla I hate to say this, but you seem to assume that if their is gender down here that there is gender up there, you can't go by assumptions. Maybe there is not gender, maybe there is gender, maybe the gender doesn't work the same way as it works down here. (The latest one is the one that, based off of my own experiences and some conversation, seems to be the case) If you think about the idea though if you can think of every cell in our body as a galacy then yes the idea that two gods having sex thus creating the universe we are in does seem plausible.
However, on the other hand if you think in terms of structure, below what we can't and never will understand there is base chaos, and above is is higher chaos which we won't be able to understand until we further evolve and get to that point. (Please keep in mind this is based off of only one theory, but I base my opinions on this around personal experiences that you may or may not believe) if you think about it in those terms something could be happening on that level we simply can't understand until we experience it. They say the universe is infinite, after all.
One of the oldest tenantes of mysticism is the concept of "As Above, So Below." Our physical world comes from, and is a reflection of, their world.
We are here to learn, live within, and understand the *higher spiritual meaning* of the cycles/forces of birth, growth, reproduction, decline, and death
I fully understand why you're so horrified by the idea.
The old belief in sexuality as a Holy Spiritual force came directly from Goddess worship. Naturally this female power was abhorrently evil to the new "Male Only" religion.
Sex to the ancients was a form of religious worship, as evidenced by old texts such as the Tantras, and the Kama Sutra.
What does a man think about when he looks at a woman but sex and fertility? They have bouncing breasts for nursing children and their bellies swell with pregnancy.
New religions popped up declaring celibacy as the most holy of paths. Sex was declared dirty and sinful.
Even today it is hardly possible for anyone brought up in one of the western nations to comprehend the ancient world's opinion of sex as an experience of divine pleasure or a preview of heaven without deliberate, laborious, intellectual progress toward such an opinion.
quote:
Originally posted by Leyla
One of the oldest tenantes of mysticism is the concept of "As Above, So Below." Our physical world comes from, and is a reflection of, their world.
We are here to learn, live within, and understand the *higher spiritual meaning* of the cycles/forces of birth, growth, reproduction, decline, and death
I fully understand why you're so horrified by the idea.
The old belief in sexuality as a Holy Spiritual force came directly from Goddess worship. Naturally this female power was abhorrently evil to the new "Male Only" religion.
Sex to the ancients was a form of religious worship, as evidenced by old texts such as the Tantras, and the Kama Sutra.
What does a man think about when he looks at a woman but sex and fertility? They have bouncing breasts for nursing children and their bellies swell with pregnancy.
New religions popped up declaring celibacy as the most holy of paths. Sex was declared dirty and sinful.
Even today it is hardly possible for anyone brought up in one of the western nations to comprehend the ancient world's opinion of sex as an experience of divine pleasure or a preview of heaven without deliberate, laborious, intellectual progress toward such an opinion.
Who said I was horrified at the idea?
All I said was to keep an open mind, and that what goes on above can never be fully understood. The idea that there can be sex after you have been enlightenend intrigues me greatly actually for several reasons :D
The fact of the matter is you can't know what goes on up there till you have visited there. As a projector I have been up to high levels, but I don't think anyone ever got past the archangel level unless they became enlightened.
One thing you seem to be assuming is that I am christian, well I am not. I practice what seems to be commonly called chaos magick, which is an open belief system of sorts. I don't like the name of it as chaos magick in my book refers to something very horrifying. I do believe that the universe itself is god, and that there are demi-gods or solar entities on a level far far below god. Below (or above, we really don't know) that are the archangels we know of, that are part of the very fabric of the universe.
quote:
The fact of the matter is you can't know what goes on up there till you have visited there. As a projector I have been up to high levels
Heh heh. You think I haven't visited there? And you think I haven't been up to high levels? As far as astral travel goes, I'm a frequent flyer.
I never assumed you were christian btw, but like most westernized people you have been brainwashed to believe that sexuality and enlightenment do not mix. To the ancients sex was the very pathway to enlightnment.
Prostitutes were holy women, and prayers uttered during sex were said to be especially potent. To embrace passionatly your opposite half and become one perfect whole, therebye being elevated to the heights, was a form of worship. This is where we get the concept of "religious ecstasy."
I suggest you get the book "sacred sexuality" by A T Mann and Jane Lyle - its full of erotic ancient texts and sexually graphic sumarian/babylonian/egyption artwork. It'll turn your old ideas on their ear.
quote:
Originally posted by Leyla
quote:
The fact of the matter is you can't know what goes on up there till you have visited there. As a projector I have been up to high levels
Heh heh. You think I haven't visited there? And you think I haven't been up to high levels? As far as astral travel goes, I'm a frequent flyer.
I never assumed you were christian btw, but like most westernized people you have been brainwashed to believe that sexuality and enlightenment do not mix. To the ancients sex was the very pathway to enlightnment.
Prostitutes were holy women, and prayers uttered during sex were said to be especially potent. To embrace passionatly your opposite half and become one perfect whole, therebye being elevated to the heights, was a form of worship. This is where we get the concept of "religious ecstasy."
I suggest you get the book "sacred sexuality" by A T Mann and Jane Lyle - its full of erotic ancient texts and sexually graphic sumarian/babylonian/egyption artwork. It'll turn your old ideas on their ear.
Uhh, no actually I am not horrified at the idea. Just because I live in the USA does not automatically make me one of your "unbelievers" Leyla, you are assuming way too much. I know about Kundalini, and I know that the old practices are only partially based around truth. You can become enlightened through sexual magic, but that path is not for everyone. Everyone has thier own path.
What gives you the idea that everyone in the western hemisphere thinks this way? You are generalizing way too much. There are other possibities to explain some of these things, and I for one am not going to go in any particular direction unless I see that there is promise there. I like doing much thinking on where I am going before I actually go there.
I wasn't saying that you haven't gone to higher planes, I simply said that I have. You can't completely understand anything up there while you are there, you are like a child just born into the world anew each time you go. Every time you go there it changes you in drastic ways.
your ideas are limited to one particular type of religion. This is causing problems with communication between us. I am thinking on very, very broad terms while you are thinking in narrower terms. Both have thier ups and downs.
quote:
I know that the old practices are only partially based around truth.
Sumaria/Babylon/Mesopatamia were not dumb dark primitives bowing down to rocks. There were advanced civilized people who started the forms of magick and meditation we still practice today.
It seems to me that you have very limited knowledge about the ancient culture be judging what they believed or why they believed it. This is why I suggested the book.
I am not talking about one particular religion, or even one type of religion. I am saying that the ENTIRE WORLD thought sex brought you to god; until the patriarchy came along to "correct" us with the new "truth" that sexuality took you away from god.
This is why everyone in the western world believes that "heaven" is a place of celebacy and that god is a neutered "it." Stop anyone on the street and ask. Our ancestors would have laughed at the idea.
You are telling me that world of spirit is sexless and genderless and I have been there enough times to know that it's not.
I understand your mind-set, I too was raised with those ideas and I know how hard it is to shake. I still struggle with it.
I believed that purity, spirituality, and enlightenment were as far away as you could get from things like passion, sensuality, and desire.
You could either have one or the other.
Now I know that that is a new idea under the sun, only recently has humanity had this concept forced on them, and that it was manufactured for political reasons.
All I'm saying is, open your mind. Thousands of years of human history isn't "wrong" just because the culture you were born into says so.
quote:
Originally posted by Leyla
quote:
I know that the old practices are only partially based around truth.
Sumaria/Babylon/Mesopatamia were not dumb dark primitives bowing down to rocks. There were advanced civilized people who started the forms of magick and meditation we still practice today.
It seems to me that you have very limited knowledge about the ancient culture be judging what they believed or why they believed it. This is why I suggested the book.
I am not talking about one particular religion, or even one type of religion. I am saying that the ENTIRE WORLD thought sex brought you to god; until the patriarchy came along to "correct" us with the new "truth" that sexuality took you away from god.
This is why everyone in the western world believes that "heaven" is a place of celebacy and that god is a neutered "it." Stop anyone on the street and ask. Our ancestors would have laughed at the idea.
You are telling me that world of spirit is sexless and genderless and I have been there enough times to know that it's not.
I understand your mind-set, I too was raised with those ideas and I know how hard it is to shake. I still struggle with it.
I believed that purity, spirituality, and enlightenment were as far away as you could get from things like passion, sensuality, and desire.
You could either have one or the other.
Now I know that that is a new idea under the sun, only recently has humanity had this concept forced on them, and that it was manufactured for political reasons.
All I'm saying is, open your mind. Thousands of years of human history isn't "wrong" just because the culture you were born into says so.
On the contrary, you don't understand me or my ideas at all, nor are you even trying to. It's close-minded people like you that are the reason I stop debating, as I am going to do right now. With that, I respectfully leave this argument.
It did sound, at the very least, like you might have a problem with the idea of sex and 'enlightenment'. You didn't say that Leyla was wrong in her As Above, so Below theory, you implied it and implied that you had knowledge that she did not have. That's how it read, perhaps not your intention.
I don't think the Goddess serves God. They are equals.
quote:
Originally posted by coben
It did sound, at the very least, like you might have a problem with the idea of sex and 'enlightenment'. You didn't say that Leyla was wrong in her As Above, so Below theory, you implied it and implied that you had knowledge that she did not have. That's how it read, perhaps not your intention.
I don't think the Goddess serves God. They are equals.
Even after specifically saying I didn't? [xx(]
quote:
All I said was to keep an open mind, and that what goes on above can never be fully understood. The idea that there can be sex after you have been enlightenend intrigues me greatly actually for several reasons :D
Leyla,
No offense intended, but I'm not sure your aware of the intense anger your projecting. Spectral is right to let this argument go. You do seem to be as closed minded as the christians you want to persecute.Pay attention to what SpectralDragon is saying.
Your on a path of understanding with some things, however your not aware of the vastness of spirituality, and you seem to cling to some ideas that are of a dangerous and questionable nature. I want to warn you of this.
Fragmented information can be deceptive. Many have reached the point where you find yourself. My own experience has led me to the same realm you describe.For me, it was a passing phase, a dillusion to get past. Yes, it does have the appearance of higher astral, but it may not be. I've come far in my spiritual journey since then. I can only see your ideas as my own past misconceptions in my early learning and experience. The thing I didn't do is to get involved with these same notions.
Leyla, there is more out there. Be careful not to get stuck in these beliefs. I can't help but think that your unresolved issues with your earlier life and/or church experience has left you vulnerable to some things. Forgiving others including yourself may be a good start.
I get my experience from waking visions, knowledge doesn't come quickly, it comes in increments. Trying to disprove other's beliefs will get you nowhere. We all have our own path(s). Your revelations are premature. Stop judging others. Judge yourself first, it's interesting the direction it will go.
sdf
The definition of "closed minded" is the refusal to look outside ones own cultural referance. You're just trying to say it to me before I can say it to you.
Spectrals statment about how "THE GODDESS IS THE SERVANT OF GOD" was certainly interesting.
Also interesting was the statment about how belief in the Goddess is merely a "90's Fad" that has overstayed it's welcome. Who knew a religious faith could become so unfashionable? Tell me, who is the "trendy" got to worship these days so I can alert everyone to their social foux pass?
The part on Wiccans and Pagans being hateful people is just wrong. I know several, none of them are "lesbian feminists," nor do they persecute Christians. But I do know one who's child was thrown out of school for wearing a pentacle.
I think you're reaching too far when you say the inquisition never happened, and that it's all a big lie concocted by man-hating goddess worshipers. It's like the Nazi's saying they never killed any jews, and it comes off more than a little "crazy."
quote:
The fact is...Christianity offered individual spiritual emancipation...that Pagan religions could not hope to provide.
Oh dear...
wisp
quote:
Stop judging others. Judge yourself first, it's interesting the direction it will go.
reread your post and just see for a moment how Leyla might, surprisingly enough, read the entire post as judgemental.
In general,
I mean when are we going to get over the
transcendant incorporeal male God who has problems with sex FAD.
MJ-12
you seem to have managed to express your ego, just fine, making it a group of egos (including my own) on this thread. As far as scholarship your post seems neither better nor worse in that arena.
While Christianity may have offered the individual a more individual sense of personal development, that development demanded that they carve out portions of themselves in the process. There was also a rather strong world denying element in there, body-sex denial, all very much at the cost of the individual. There are insights that, if lovingly blended with the pagan religions's strong points could have created something wonderful. I do not agree that Christianity was a next step in religious evolution. It had something good, mixed in with its problems and the pagan religions also needed to evolve. But just as the Romans colonized and did not merge strengths, the Christian relgion, via the Romans (but at least inpart because of the seeds of problems within it) colonized and eradicated pagan religions that had a lot to offer Christians. And they still do.
Leyla,
quote:
Originally posted by Leyla
"THE GODDESS IS THE SERVANT OF GOD" was certainly interesting.
Tell me, when did I say that? Now I think you are simply looking for a fight lady, and you are not going to get it from me.
coben,
quote:
reread your post and just see for a moment how Leyla might, surprisingly enough, read the entire post as judgemental
Sorry, guess I don't know what you mean,coben.
This list of Leyla's in this thread, is not her own. It's a collection of other's material I've read before.
What parts she does claim as her own?
The door is open for what I said. Leyla opened it when she made her judgment on others.The Western Hemisphere covers a lot of territory! [:)]
As above, as below has to do with microcosm and macrocosm principles. Judgment is a result (or so it appears). Judgment is not personal. Unless... you attempt to discredit others.
M12,
quote:
I read this thread that it might grow beyond the late 90s Mother Goddess Craze, but I see that it won't grow beyond one person's ego.
Good call!
I hate to hit everybody on the head with this, but I'm sure you've all turned on your TV's and seen the prisoner photos.
We live in a world where war is considered good and sex is considered bad. It's acceptable to exploit women's bodies in a "junior high" manner, yet at the same time we ban or run from serious discussion.
Many people see the hypocrisy in this but few see the obvious connection between suppressing sex and spurring perverted forms of sexual aggression.
In this environment, pleasure becomes the 'moral' issue and violence is treated with a blasé attitude.
If you teach someone sex is dirty and bad they will seek out sex in dirty bad ways.
You divorce spirituality from sexuality and you will fill the world with rapists, peadophiles and violent perverts of every stripe.
People today don't give sex the respect it deserves as a spiritual force.
People are switching out their partners every 15 minutes, rap stars are calling women every filthy name imaginable.
There is little to no respect whatsoever for their own bodies, or the bodies of their partners, and sex is treated as an "act."
Why?
Because the belief that Sex is "lowly" and "shallow" only serves to encourage people to treat sex, and their sexual partners in a "shallow" manner.
Spectral, I'm calling you out as a liar.
Posted - 04 May 2004 : 18:29:31
quote:
Actually, I am saying that the so called "goddess" is a seraphim, a servant of god.
Wisp, I'm calling you out as liar as well.
quote:
This list of Leyla's in this thread, is not her own. It's a collection of other's material I've read before.
Really? Where? Lets see it. Lay it on the table. Now.
MJ-12, you're just mad because I pointed out your God is at war with a star constellation. It made you feel silly, so you decided to make some (highly emotional) radical insults toward the Goddess.
She forgives you MJ,
I'll pray for you.
reptilians =scapegoat
why blame ourselves for somthing bad? its better to think up conspiricies of evil beings who are controlling us
its easier on us to blame others rather than take the responsibility for ourselves, that said, I ALWAYS BLAME OTHERS
so if you say Im a hypocrite, than Im not, If I SAY IM NOT A HYPOCRITE
I am
which comes down to the final question,
"are we really happy with who we are right now?"
Leyla,
Sorry, but I don't work for you. I've read the same stuff from various sources in the last 5 years. If I happen across some of the material I'll be glad to post it. In the mean time, it's not the sort of material I keep around. You've probably read or had someone pass on these same sort of concepts. I have my own opinion about it.
Soooo, your saying...you originated everything you have listed in this thread?
Careful on your demand, btw. Your teeth are showing.
Your free sex idea is not new either. I have a feeling your justifying your own lifestyle. We create our own reality.
Leyla, you're preaching to the choir here. Most of us (SD included if I might add), already agree that there is a feminine element to the realities above us, and that sex can be part of spirituality (if done in a balanced manner). For instance, usually whenever I pray I use the term FatherMother, and I have an interest how sexual alchemy might enhance spiritual development. However, the way in which you talk about the God and Goddess seems to be reducing them to an anthromorphic level. The essence behind human sexuality does indeed exist at higher levels, but not in the same way we think of it. I think this was part of the misunderstanding that came about when SD said that the Goddess is a seraphim. And based on the research I have done up till this point, angels and Gods tend to be more so androgynous than anything, with the male and feminine being aspects of their nature.
quote:
It made you feel silly, so you decided to make some (highly emotional) radical insults toward the Goddess.
She forgives you MJ,
I'll pray for you.
[B)] The element of the universe called the Goddess does not need you to defend her anymore than the wind or stars do. Also, although the Catholic church did drive many pagan religions which worshipped the Goddess underground, this had more to do with other factors and a striving for control, and not any evil male conspiracy to destroy the feminine element. They destroyed many religions which weren't necesarily goddess based as well. Furthermore, worship of the Lady did still go on in the church in the form of Mary, Mother of God. Infact, in many places her veneration was second only to that of Jesus, and sometimes even higher, with the Father coming in at a distant third. The Western Hemisphere was not the only part of the world to promote celibacy either, celibacy was the norm among most Buddhist monks, which made up a huge part of the world's religious distribution.
Read it again Leyla, does it say god is male or female? Like lord of the bunnies said, your preaching to the chior. I am going to make my point more clear this time: if you want a fight, go somewhere else. If you want a friendly debate, I will be happy to discuss things with you.
Allright. Suddenly I'm preaching to the choir and everyone agreed with me the whole while. Whatever. I don't see what all the arguing was about then.
The rest of this is for Wisp:
Ah ha! Caught you. So you admit you can't find it. And there's no way you could have, because I took the Draco information straight out of Astronomy. There isn't an occult book in print that will tell you North is the true direction of the grail/goddess. That's because most of the authors are oath bound not to reveal certain information. Also, I have yet to find an occult book in print that knows about the hidden identity of the Arabian fairy-tail princess Leyla being a Goddess. The rest of it is historical information.
Free sex idea? First the lies, and now you're just making stuff up as you go along.
What I'm judging is a culture, not it's people. A culture that shows minimal respect for sex, and denies it's spirituality, thus breeding perversion and abuse.
You however, are launching personal attacks at me because you can't attack my ideas. [B)]
This shows you're desperate.
My own lifestyle? Yet another missed target. I've practiced celibacy for six years, and have a handsome man with whom I'm planning a life and child. We're waiting for marriage. But I'm sure when we finally do have sex it will be a profoundly spiritual experience that will bring us at a oneness with each other, with the universe, and with the co-creators....
The very opposite of that "dirty" "non spiritual" and "debased animal rutting" that you advocate. Yucky. I'd have to be celibate the rest of my LIFE if I thought of it the gross way you do.
You could try to take another whack at me, but I'm sure it would be as futile as all your last two attempts.
Everyone seems to be throwing their two cents in on the nature of upper dimensional beings. So I might as well list off my experience.
The "arch angel" type entities I have met, my personal guides, are VERY male. Formal, military, disciplined, butt-kicking, and are called "The Brothers." They are not sexless and neutered.
I also (only once) ran across a goddess. She was...amazing, I never imagined a more loving feminine energy. There was no question about her gender, and again we are speaking of an upper dimensional entity.
Also, on one occation, I did experience "astral sex" so there has never been doubt for me that sex is spiritual and not earthly, because you don't need a physical body to do it.
In fact, you physical body makes for a poor filter. The sensations are much more sharp and clear when you're out of body. I would be interested in learning techniquies for astral projecting with your partner during sex so as to experience it there.
I think this is the concept behind what is known as the "great rite" or the "holy marriage."
K, I am going to agree that archangels are more so male entities, but they are not in of themselves "males" also, you were likely talking to ASPECTS of archangels
Well, I seem to have made a lier out of myself. I didn't leave the argument. Since tempers are flaring, and you don't have any interest in paying attention to the following:
-I am not saying sex is bad in spirituality, just it's overrated
-The female beings have less power or whatnot I am not disagreeing with you on
Then I am leaving this argument. Leyla, I don't know what happened to you all of a sudden to make you this way, you had a much different atmosphere before. Hopefully we can understand each other one day but right now tempers are flaring a bit too much.
as
SD, I'm was never angry with you, nor do I want our friendship to end, it was that you took an arrogant tone with me, as if I had not exaustively researched this topic.
The crux here seems to be that you think it's overrated, and I think it's underrated. But I have very good reasons for taking that point of view, even though you might not agree with them.
Put all the history away, and forget about what the sumarians and egyptians were doing and whether or not it was "truth."
Isn't it just common sense that if people believe sex is "lowly" and "shallow" only encourages them to treat sex, and their sexual partners in a "lowly" "shallow" manner?
And likewise, if they were to approach sex hat-in-hand as a spiritual force then they would have more respect for their bodies, and for themselves, and for their partners?
quote:
Originally posted by Leyla
SD, I'm was never angry with you, nor do I want our friendship to end, it was that you took an arrogant tone with me, as if I had not exaustively researched this topic.
The crux here seems to be that you think it's overrated, and I think it's underrated. But I have very good reasons for taking that point of view, even though you might not agree with them.
Put all the history away, and forget about what the sumarians and egyptians were doing and whether or not it was "truth."
Isn't it just common sense that if people believe sex is "lowly" and "shallow" only encourages them to treat sex, and their sexual partners in a "lowly" "shallow" manner?
And likewise, if they were to approach sex hat-in-hand as a spiritual force then they would have more respect for their bodies, and for themselves, and for their partners?
If I was giving that impression I apoligize. However I would encourage that the both of us either lay off this, think of our recent actions, and try to learn from it, or simply melow the mood in this very thread.
quote:
And likewise, if they were to approach sex hat-in-hand as a spiritual force then they would have more respect for their bodies, and for themselves, and for their partners?
I do not believe sex itself is the driving force here, but rather love. Sex and love go hand in hand, but are not the same thing. In sex there are energy transfers, and in love transfers of the soul energies.
However I have seen evidence that two partners can go into enlightenment together and thus create another universe together. The evidence is from talking to certian beings and actually exploring Other Universes (http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10915&whichpage=1) The idea is very intrigueing to me and gives light to the idea that partnerships on this world are not on simply the level of the physical and mental, but something greater.
I say that since everyone has had their time on the "soapbox" it is time to bow and shake hands and learn from the very long topic..[^]
Infact let us all take a moment of silence...
Nay [;)]
All right. I've seen enough of this silly nonsense, and can stand it no more!
If you want to go hunting for star-dragons, all you have to do is wait for nightfall and point your faces to the North.
DRAGON OF THE NIGHT:
The the NIGHT SKY (the dark womb- the dark earth) is ruled by the North Star. In particular by the Great Dragon. Draco, which currently circles around the North Star.
We have the Sun in the South- the Male God Force ruling the day; and the Dragon in the North- the Female Goddess Force ruling the night.
Black Elk says it best. "Growing power is rooted in the mystery of the Night. Seeds sprout in the darkness of the ground...In the Night of the Womb spirit quickens into flesh."
Things that grow, grow secretly in darkness before they are revealed to the light.
"In ancient times the heavens rotated around Draco. The dragon was the center around which the heavens turned and it was the symbol of primordial chaos (the goddess.) It would have appeared to the ancient sky watchers that the earth revolved around Draco."
The original constilation of Draco was much larger and had enormous wings. The Greek philosopher Thales lopped off the wings in the sixth century BC. Now she is depicted as a large serpent.
Most American Indian tribes call the North "Where we all come from" and some tribes call a womans vagina "The Winged Serpent" or Dragon.
It's all coming together isn't it? Belly dancers with their snakes. Twisting turning seducing. The "evil" serpent in the garden. The dragon so revered in the orient, and yet so reviled in the west.
The Buddhists have kept their goddess. In the orient perfection is seen as the balance of Yin/Yang, Female/Male, Black/White. In the west they will tell you black represents "evil." This is because black represents the female force.
This dragon symbology is so prevalent in ancient cultures, and in ancient writings, that a generation of conspiracy theorists have been lead to believe (with all their hearts) that an ALIEN RACE of "dragons" came from the stars and inbred with humans. There are hundreds of books proclaiming "Reptilian Aliens are living among us!" They spend years tracking down people from "ancient alien blood lines."
I have read the family names listed as those of "Alien Blood," including the Bushes. Unless it was their intent to produce an enclave of incompetent learning disabled alcoholics then the breeding program should be dismantled post haste, because it is a pathetic failure.
If they are all products of an ancient alien breeding system constructed with the utmost planning and care it should be proven in the results. You should be able to find nary a one member of the upper class who lacks a genius IQ and mystical powers. And we all know that is not the case.
Now that you know why the Goddess is "The Night" and "The Dragon" it explains all those pictures of Mary "The Mother of God" wearing a robe of stars and/or a crown of stars while standing on the Moon. Sometimes she is pictured standing on a serpent. When they tell you it is Mary conquering the devil, you will know it really represents the star constellation of Draco. One of Mary's names is, in fact, "Our Lady of The Stars." Several goddesses carried this title, including Nuit of Egypt.
Many ancient Goddess names translate to "Stary" Astarte, Ishtar and Astraea for example. You know what's "Stary?" The night sky.
Check out this prayer to Virgin Mary composed by Lord Byron
SHE WALKS IN BEAUTY, LIKE THE NIGHT
She walks in beauty, like the night
Of cloudless climes and starry skies;
And all that's best of dark and bright
Meet in her aspect and her eyes:
Thus mellow'd to that tender light
Which heaven to gaudy day denies.
I found this on a Christian web site:
"Thy Nativity, O Christ our God, hath shined upon the world the light of knowledge; for thereby, they that worshipped the stars were taught by a star to worship Thee."
Heh heh heh. Cute aren't they?
Explains the hell out of all those mysterious paintings of the "Black Madonna." Of course, some nut jobs are running around with the theory that the Black Madonna paintings are a secret coded message proving the royal family is of the "Blood line of Christ." They are not.
Many modern conspiracy theorists think the Black Madonna symbolises Mary Magdalene. I think I have proven the "Black Madonna" is none other than the Goddess herself, perhaps with Mary Magdalene acting as her Priestess.
Here is where the confusion lies: There is the impression of "Secrecy" "Concealment" and "The Hidden" in the Black Madonna.
That's because Darkness itself is concealing.
They were not hiding the blood line of Jesus. They were hiding the old religion. And for good reason. The church would've killed them.
OH YEAH? WHAT ABOUT THE DRAGONS CONNECTION TO ROYALTY AND THE RULING CLASSES?
ANSWER: No king comes into power except through the goddess.
The Goddess is the Land. He who wins the Goddess wins the Land. Nobody but the husband of the Land (Goddess) has any authority over her.
Quoting: "The sacred marriage between priestess and king was the most solemn and numinous of all Mesopotamian religious rituals. Through this act the life-force of the goddess was drawn down to the land and it's people. Without his wedding to the Goddess in the living form of her priestess the king was not considered fit or able to rule the people.
"The relationship between Goddesses of the land and the holder of worldly power-the king-is an important theme in Celtic mythology. Irish text suggest that the king was married to the tutelary goddess of his tribe. This would take place as a Sacred Marriage with a priestess."
The Dragon is on the Flag of Wales. Queen Elizabeth's exact words to Charles as he was crowned Prince of Wales were: "This Dragon now gives you your power, your throne, and your authority."
She just as easily could have said "The Goddess now gives you your power, your throne, and your authority."
I wonder if they have any idea the meanings of these ceremonies they perform, and their ancient pagan roots. I suspect they are only going through the motions. Sad.
Even the Jews count days from sundown to sundown. Because they know Night came before the Day.
Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form and void. and darkness was upon the face of the deep And the spirit of god moved upon the face of the waters."
Hence the popular bumper sticker: "My Goddess gave birth to your God."
Today most people have the view of "the world at war." They believe there is a great battle going on between the forces of "Light" and the forces of "Darkness." Day against Night. God against Goddess. Male against Female.
The Christian God, like so many gods after the male revolution, he swears vengeance on "The Dragon." This has caused millions upon millions of confused Christians to declare war against a star constellation, and "the forces of darkness."
I don't know about where you live, but the forces of darkness arrive here around 6:30 every evening.