Physical Reality = "Non-Existent" <-- Verifications please

[Pauli2]

The title of this topic is a little too hard drawn, but I think it better makes my point,
so let me explain:

Campbell says that physical matter reality (PMR) doesn't exist other than as a Software
simulation. The Software is Consciousness (as is the Programmer (AUM) and the
Hardware (The Even Bigger Computer = AUM)) only.

So if the Software is stopped and used for other purposes, our physical world will
stop to exist (other than as Memory in AUM, which is also Consciousness only).

So physical reality according to Campbell is not completely Non-Existent, but it
only exists at long as the Software keeps its existence in place. Sometimes
Campbell uses other words and says that physical reality is virtual, which
in a sense also says that its an illusion or at least not existing in its own
right.
---

Having re-read Ultimate Journey I noticed some disturbing parts which actually seem
to support Campbell's take on physical reality. I must have ignored them pretty much
before, because those sentences by Monroe are very few and short.

My copy of UJ, Broadway Books, 2000 (orig. 1994), says on page 211:

"Yes, the dream." . . . "the dream is fading quickly . . . something about clouds and curls . . .
and moving along an Interstate . . . and life and death, whatever that means . . . something
called time-space . . . and a blue planet . . .  and a sun"...

Here Monroe refers to planet Earth as I see it, as being part of "the dream". I'm not sure if
I should take his writings as literal; physical reality _being_ a dream, but there goes more.
---

Monroe meets an Alien I-There Cluster (?) who says, on page 213:

..."of what you call the dream."

By some reason the Alien Cluster doesn't completely comply with the use of the expression
"the dream", which points in a direction that perhaps physical reality is not purely a dream
or should not be viewed exactly that way.
---


The Alien I-There Cluster says, on page 215:

..."you can perceive the Emitter for the energy beam that creates what you call the dream."

Notice the word "creates", indicating that perhaps the creation is ongoing. And Monroe himself continues:

"The dream . . . The hologram would be a better term."
---

On page 218, Monroe states:

". . . yet I am still awake, pulsating with what I am beyond the dream. Can there be
any way to express that wave form in the dream without disturbing the illusion?"

And further down on page 218 of UJ:

". . . the Emitter! No, there was no big bang . . . it came from the Emitter . . . the creation
of the hologram . . ."
---

Later on Monroe express him in a way that I get the impression that he thinks the physical
world (and perhaps some part of the nonphysical?) is the result of a Design or some kind
of construction.

In the third part (third book) of My Big TOE, Campbell adds a claim that The Big Computer
runs the Software in simulations, which branches out in all directions of probable future
events, but not using the conscious individuals in those simulations, only using their probable
actions. And than Campbell states that explorers projecting into those more "static"
simulations may mistake them for predictions of the future. And that is perhaps the
best part of book 3 of MBT (which otherwise is quite boring in my opinion).
---

Anyway, all these pieces lead me to ask one question:

Have any of you found any proof, experience or indications in the nonphysical which points
in any direction of the existence of physical reality?

Does or doesn't physical reality exist on its own?

If Consciousness withdrew or stopped any "involvement" or "maintenance" of physical
reality, will physical reality (atoms, photons, etc) stop to exist? Is physical reality
virtual in the sense Campbell implies? Is it a dream maintained only by an "Emitter"?
Or will the physical world keep existing even if all Consciousness withdrew or reverted
its presence in the physical?

What nonphysical experiences do you have for supporting the idea that there is an existence
of physical reality on its own?

[Lionheart]

 I would say if Mankind knew all the answers, the "Virtual Reality" would cease to exist! The "experiment" or the "game" would be over.

[todd421757]

Very good questions Pauli. I can give you my opinion. And it is backed by my experiences along with others like H.P. Blavatsky (Isis Unveiled Volume 1), Albert Einstein, Jacky Jerome (The Spacetime Model), Vessen Hopkins, Ophiel, and many others.

I don't subscribe to the theories of Thomas Campbell. There are very few OBE validations that support his theories. The only one I can think of is the reason for reality fluctuations in OBE's. He presents very little experiences that can back his theories.

But I believe reality fluctuations are better explained by a diminished awareness and a diminished will intensity that creeps into many OBE's as the experience is prolonged longer than the energy supply is able to fuel.

Most physical and non-physical phenomena can be explained by the older theories of ether, akasha, and relativity. Unfortunately now, this is largely forgotten in the mainstream society.

This is what I subscribe to: The etheric plane creates the physical physical plane.

The physical plane can be altered by a change in the etheric plane. Physical objects can be moved. Illnesses can be healed or created. Physical appearance can be altered. Hunger can be eliminated (It's been three years, and I still have no hunger). I have been able to perform each of these things by changing the energy configuration of the etheric plane.

The physical plane exists for the person as long as their energy blueprint is still intact. The energy configuration is kept intact by the six energy orbs found outside the body. The energy orbs can be seen on the youtube link below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_GPTSiJEDc

[Killa Rican]

Yes I as well suspect the Etheric plays a big part in sustaining Physical Existence but they need each other.

[Xanth]

I'm quite impressed Pauli.  These are very solid questions.  Probably very unanswerable... but very solid.

Anyway, all these pieces lead me to ask one question:

Have any of you found any proof, experience or indications in the nonphysical which points
in any direction of the existence of physical reality?

Does or doesn't physical reality exist on its own?

If Consciousness withdrew or stopped any "involvement" or "maintenance" of physical
reality, will physical reality (atoms, photons, etc) stop to exist? Is physical reality
virtual in the sense Campbell implies? Is it a dream maintained only by an "Emitter"?
Or will the physical world keep existing even if all Consciousness withdrew or reverted
its presence in the physical?

What nonphysical experiences do you have for supporting the idea that there is an existence
of physical reality on its own?

I think there's a good chance it's the last... that with no consciousnesses experiencing the datastream that is this physical reality, this reality would cease to exist.

What happens to your dream reality when you wake up?  Who really knows, right? 

As I said, I the answers to your question, as Tom suggests, can't be answers while we're part of this system.

Yes I as well suspect the Etheric plays a big part in sustaining Physical Existence but they need each other.

I actually am starting to think what people call the "etheric plane" or the "real time zone" is nothing but a completely separate non-physical reality guided and created by the minds of those who experience it, while they experience it.  It could be mostly "earth" consciousnesses who experience that particular datastream.  Meaning our thoughts and beliefs would be the fuel for it. 

As I said though... who really knows, right? 

[Pauli2]

What happens to your dream reality when you wake up?  Who really knows, right? 

And even more disturbing who creates all the details in the dream? On some LDs I've
moved close to objects and even if there has been blurred areas, there has been
a lot of details. Too many details in my mind. I wonder how that's possible.

I've still not ruled out the possibility that it's just made up in my mind and that there
is no non-physical reality, so I can't say. This also means that I don't fully trust my
own experiences, neither OBEs nor retrievals, as I've no hard verification of any of
them. I further bothers me quite a lot that none has managed to get the Randi price.

I have to admit that I would dislike Campbell being right, partly because he is such
a poor writer, but also because I don't like the idea that physical reality is an illusion.

But still, there is that writing of Monroe in UJ... something being "the dream"...

[todd421757]

Two more things I forgot to mention in my previous post which further explains how the etheric directly affects the physical.

1) I once cut my finger in an etheric projection on an sharp object. I later had a cut in the same location on my physical body's finger.

2) I taught someone to have an etheric projection. During the projection, they lost balance and hit their etheric head on a coffee table. For some reason, the etheric head didn't travel through the coffee table. When they re-entered their physical body, they had a bad head pain in the same location of their physical head.

[Xanth]

And even more disturbing who creates all the details in the dream? On some LDs I've
moved close to objects and even if there has been blurred areas, there has been
a lot of details. Too many details in my mind. I wonder how that's possible.

Well, I've directly created my own non-physical experiences before.  Not in their entirety, but partially.
So... the half answer is "you".  You create your own details.

The other half is the mystery, but I'm thinking that "other consciousnesses" create the rest.

I've still not ruled out the possibility that it's just made up in my mind and that there
is no non-physical reality, so I can't say. This also means that I don't fully trust my
own experiences, neither OBEs nor retrievals, as I've no hard verification of any of
them. I further bothers me quite a lot that none has managed to get the Randi price.

Nor should you "rule that out".  It's always a possibility. 

As for your own experiences... don't trust them right now.  Just log them.  Worry about analyzing them later.

I have to admit that I would dislike Campbell being right, partly because he is such
a poor writer, but also because I don't like the idea that physical reality is an illusion.

"Disliking" Tom being right means he's saying something which you don't want to hear.  Something that probably goes against some belief(s) you hold.

Honestly.  It wouldn't pain me if he was right or wrong... or if any other person was right and I was wrong.
Why?  Because in the end, we would be closer to the truth and that's the most important part for me.  Finding the truth. 
I'm always open to changing my opinions on topics when someone hands me new information that turns out to be truth.

But still, there is that writing of Monroe in UJ... something being "the dream"...

Those were some very interesting quotes you dug up. 

Two more things I forgot to mention in my previous post which further explains how the etheric directly affects the physical.

1) I once cut my finger in an etheric projection on an sharp object. I later had a cut in the same location on my physical body's finger.

2) I taught someone to have an etheric projection. During the projection, they lost balance and hit their etheric head on a coffee table. For some reason, the etheric head didn't travel through the coffee table. When they re-entered their physical body, they had a bad head pain in the same location of their physical head.

That's one possible explanation.
Another would be the power of your Consciousness acting upon your Reality. 

[Killa Rican]

"Disliking" Tom being right means he's saying something which you don't want to hear.  Something that probably goes against some belief(s) you hold.

Honestly.  It wouldn't pain me if he was right or wrong... or if any other person was right and I was wrong.
Why?  Because in the end, we would be closer to the truth and that's the most important part for me.  Finding the truth.  
I'm always open to changing my opinions on topics when someone hands me new information that turns out to be truth.

I agree. Personally, the "true" reality is ultimately unimportant. What matters is how ones preferred interpretation informs their behavior, and the results they reap. I know there are multiple ways of seeing the same things, or seeing different things the same.

With my experiences, I already accepted them for what they were, and how they make most sense to me due to verifications, research, dot connection, experimentations, trial & error  etc, and in the proccess I have come to the realization we humans are limited for a reason, whatever purpose it may be or hold. I've seen often enough with truth seekers, an individauls pursuit for truth, after awhile, they will often end up right back where they started lol. The experience itself is more important then over-analyzing, I think.

Anyhow, as long as an individual is freely and openly exposes themself to all sides, arguments, and ideas without bias; I would say there is nothing wrong with staying true to their original perception in the end if something doesnt add up. Heck even if they are religious, as long as they were willing to listen and be open and truely THINK about it, I think that's important for one's growth to keep in mind.

My 2 cents.

[Lionheart]

 Here is a great interview with William Bulman. This video was made Jan 29th 2012. He mirrors a lot of what's being said by Tom Campbell, but describes it in his own way. I particularly like the 11:00 minute mark of the interview, where he says "You have to become an explorer yourself, to know Reality". He also says at around the 13:00 minute mark "I don't really care what Science says about Out of Body Exploration because myself and millions of other people know from experience".
Another excellent interview by a pioneer of the trade. This video is 59:38 minutes long. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahk7pOrOvuE