Mormons baptizing dead Jews

[Leyla]

I stated clearly they are a "branch" of the Mormon church.

Similarly, there are "good" Moslems and "Fundamentalist" Moslems who blow things up. But they are both still Moslems.

Instead of "killing the messenger" perhaps you should take a drive down to one of these childrens shelters, prove to youself that the kids are real flesh-and-blood, not figments of the medias imagination, and then do what you can to help?

After all, they are "your own" people. Perhaps you can instruct them what "real" mormonism is all about.

Would that not be a more constructive use of your time, rather than calling me foul names?

[mactombs]

I stated clearly they are a "branch" of the Mormon church.

No, they are not. They are condemned by the Mormon church.

Instead of "killing the messenger" perhaps you should take a drive down to one of these childrens shelters, prove to youself that the kids are real flesh-and-blood, not figments of the medias imagination, and then do what you can to help?

I don't know how to even begin to explain how delusional you are about the situation. Instead, why don't you come to Utah and see for yourself? Or you could always read more carefully when you do your research.

After all, they are "your own" people. Perhaps you can instruct them what "real" mormonism is all about.

How are they "my own" people? How many times do I have to say I am ex-Mormon? Yes, they're my own people in the respect that they're human - and that's far more valuable kinship than religious lines. But as far as shelters filled with FLDS refugees like you seem to have an image of, this would never be the case. I'd be lucky to find any FLDS refugees if I scoured the entire state.

[Leyla]

If any man espose a virgin and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent and if he espouse a second, and they are virgins and have vowed to no other man then he is justified; he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.

And if he have ten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.

But if one or either of the ten virgins after she is espoused, shall be with another man, she has committed adultery and shall be destroyed.

- Joseph smith, Founder of the Mormon Church, Doctrine and Covenants, 132:61-63

And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and clave unto my servant Joseph and to no one else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord, for I am the Lord God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.

-Joseph Smith, Founder of the Mormon Church, Doctrine and Covenants, 132:54

[no_leaf_clover]

Lol, there's much worse in the Old Testament even. All of these guys are nuts.

[mactombs]

Yes, Leyla, those quotes are genuine. It's also interesting to read about the occult and masonic influences in the early teachings and creation of the church. In John Michael Greer's Encylcopedia of the Occult his account of the origins of the church varies greatly from the one taught in Sunday school - Greer's is actually probably more accurate, too.

So, you're right about the church in the beginning - it was an eccentric cult probably not a lot different than the FLDS is now. I understand where the confusion could arise here - but the point is, the church then and the church now are quite different. Very hard to explain. But another example is the difference between the origins of Christianity in the catacombs, secretive and elitist, to today's Baptist congregation.

Lol, there's much worse in the Old Testament even. All of these guys are nuts.

Yes, very true. And another example of how the meaning of scripture has changed for people early on to what it means to people now.

It's interesting to think how people who follow the actual meaning of scripture as it was originally meant are considered fundamentalists and off their rockers - which they are.

[Leannain]

rofl,religions are funny

[Leyla]

mactombs-  I totally expected a ranting blow-up, and am surprised how level headed you're being.

What I'm trying to say is- this kind of thing is still going on, and not only among fundamentalist groups of Mormons, but among other Fundamentalist religious groups in the US as well. And denial won't make it any better.

You can't fix a problem until you first acnowledge there is a problem.

[Ramone]

Yes, Mactombs is a level headed kind of guy...most of the time.  I tend to be the more confrontational roommate.  It's not too hard to get me riled up, as Mactombs knows all too well.

[Andali27]

You can't fix a problem until you first acnowledge there is a problem.

What problem?  The only problem I see is people ranting about stuff they read from second hand news reports.  The reporters there, only want to stir trouble and love the outcome of their idiocy.  You're being sucked into the oldest news ploy on the planet: "say something controversial that will get people riled up then sit back and watch the fireworks".

This arguement is a statement of how little half of you in the argument know.  Just because it's on the net, it doesn't make it true.  Just because it was said by a news channel, doesn't make it true.  Half the news we get these days is useless garbage anyway and everyone beleives it because its  'on TV'.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints are the biggest contributors to welfare relief in the world.  The members donate their OWN money to a welfare fund all the time and they're forever giving aid to countries that need it.  They also have farms in which they grow things they can use for aid to give to other countries.

It's the boys' choice to go on missions for 2 years sometime after they turn 18 and they pay for it out of their own pockets.  They go because they want to, not because they have to.  The LDS church is all about family and caring for others.

The FLDS are indeed condemed by the mainstream Mormon church and you'll probably find that it's them (FLDS) trying to deface the Mormans by practicing their 'revised' gospel.

There is nothing wrong with the Mormon church.  If anyone is saying that, then go maybe you should visit their webpage.

There is not a nicer bunch than the Mormons, and true, bad apples do come along but there are bad apples in every religion, what about the Catholic priests molesting little boys?  Ever heard of that happening in the Mormon church?

And as far as baptising by proxy goes, no one pays for it.  The members pay ten percent of their gross income and that goes towards humanitarian aid, mission funding, temple funding etc...

People do their family history all by their selves and the Mormons don't baptise those whom the family doesn't want them to.  I laughed when someone claimed the LDS church baptised Adolf Hitler.  That's a laugh and half!  And a lie.

Family history is important to the chuch and its mostly dead reletives whom are baptised by proxy.  No one says, "yep, let's baptise...JF Kenedy, good bloke".  As if!  They need family records, permission from the family if the family is not part of their bloodline.

Half of you are getting reved up over nothing so chill out.

Even though their religion is strict, they're no more unusual then the next religion you don't understand.  And fearing and hating something that you don't understand is simply stupid.

Andali

[RT]

You can't fix a problem until you first acnowledge there is a problem.

There is not a nicer bunch than the Mormons, and true, bad apples do come along but there are bad apples in every religion, what about the Catholic priests molesting little boys? Ever heard of that happening in the Mormon church?

Even though their religion is strict, they're no more unusual then the next religion you don't understand.  And fearing and hating something that you don't understand is simply stupid.

Andali

Religious people claim they are people of God, but that fact is most religions judge others and each other.  Religions are hypocritical most of the time. Shame on them! Religions try to explain God, and the Metaphysical world with logic and that is just not possible. Faith is just that Faith you either have it or you don't.

Many people claim there religion is the correct one and the only way to God or Heaven, that is the biggest load of sh*t I have ever heard.  Like give more money to us, donate your time to God, donate your life to God and do it by only following the words our religion has created and preaches. How arrogant! If God is the all powerful, loving God then he loves us all no matter what happens or what we do.  People in most religions judge others to make themselves feel that they are more holy than those sinners they see. LOL!

I was told that make sure the one finger you are pointing with doesn't have 3 pointing back at you.

RT

[Andali27]

It's interesting, the LDS church actually doesn't try to explain God.

[RT]

There is not a nicer bunch than the Mormons, and true, bad apples do come along but there are bad apples in every religion, what about the Catholic priests molesting little boys?  Ever heard of that happening in the Mormon church?

Andali

Judge orders Mormons to provide sex-abuse records
http://www.rickross.com/reference/mormon/mormon35.html


Abuse alleged in Mormon lawsuit
http://www.rickross.com/reference/mormon/mormon200.html

LDS/Mormon
Legal cases and case studies
http://www.childpro.org/ldscases.htm


Child Abuse Cover-Up Costs Mormon Church $3 Million
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/09-05-2001/0001566613&EDATE=


Shall I go on??  There are many many more.


People only see what they want to see and never truly question.

As long as it works for you, fine, but always question authority it is our "God Given Right", even if the people are so called holy ones.

[Andali27]

Every religion has bad apples and you can't condem a single one just because there's rubbish on the internet.  Whether true or not, everyone has a right to express their opinions and keep and open mind.

[Telos]

Hey, Ken Jennings is a mormon. As far as I'm concerned that makes him Saint Jennings, patron saint of r0x0rs j00r s0x0rs. Forget the Pope! Put this guy on the canonization fast-track instead.

[Leyla]

It's no use arguing with these people. No matter how many newspaper and television reports and interviews with the victims there are, they will say it's "all made up."

Which begs the question: Is there really a war in Iraq?

[no_leaf_clover]

Hey, Ken Jennings is a mormon. As far as I'm concerned that makes him Saint Jennings, patron saint of r0x0rs j00r s0x0rs. Forget the Pope! Put this guy on the canonization fast-track instead.

Strange that such an intelligent man would not see what a joke organized religion is.

[RT]

Every religion has bad apples and you can't condem a single one just because there's rubbish on the internet.  Whether true or not, everyone has a right to express their opinions and keep and open mind.

Rubbish on the net?  I think not. And this is not my opinion but Case Law in the US and public record in our legal system if you know where to look the Case law is free.

Complaint:


           A $750 million civil suit was filed alleging the LDS Church covered up for a father committing sadistic incest with his children. The entire complaint is included. Read the facts of this egregious case:

           IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF RALEIGH COUNTY, WEST VIRGINIA

           Plaintiffs,

           

           Civil Action: Jane Doe, an infant, by her next friend and guardian, Rebecca Doe; and, Rebecca Doe, Individually;

                                         VS.

           Defendants

           

           Raleigh General Hospital, a West Virginia Corporation d/b/a HCA Raleigh General Hospital;

           and, HCA, Inc., A Delaware Corporation;

           and, HCA - Hospital Corporation of America, A Delaware Corporation; and, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, an unincorporated religious association; and, The Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, a Utah Corporation; and, The Corporation of the Presiding Bishop of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, a Utah Corporation; and, Gordon B. Hinckley, in his capacity as President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints; and, Thomas S. Monson, in his capacity as First Counselor in the First Presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints; and, James E. Faust, in his capacity as Second Counselor in the First Presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints;

           and, Boyd K. Packer, in his capacity as Acting President of the Quorum of Twelve Apostles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints;

           and, Merril J. Bateman, in his capacity as Presiding Bishop of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

[Hans Solo]

Lets get to the real point-

All I know is that the Beer in Utah sucks, lower alcohol %,  because of the Mormons, and them using the government to shove their morals on everyone else.  Shame on you Mormons, Shame on you.   :Lol:

However, I live in a state that still has Blue Laws (cant buy alcohol on Sundays, etc), and there are not many Mormons here, so go figure.  Glad we have separation of Church and State, however we need more (SEPERATION, not church OR State).
 
Han

[mactombs]

All I know is that the Beer in Utah sucks, lower alcohol %, because of the Mormons, and them using the government to shove their morals on everyone else. Shame on you Mormons, Shame on you. :Lol:

Only the beer in the grocery stores is lower %. You can still get the better beer at the liquor store. Utah liquor laws are, however, utterly ridiculous.

The only way to make things right is to make things more like Germany. We need beer in the workplace. German beer in the workplace. It's clearly an efficient start on making Utah right.

[Leyla]

Hey- I just saw these people on TV! I was watching and apparently Dr.Phil has done two programs on them.

http://drphil.com/shows/show/479
http://drphil.com/shows/show/527

(Andali27 responds: "Who are you going to believe? Me, or your lyin' eyes?")

[Andali27]

Andali27 responds: "Who are you going to believe? Me, or your lyin' eyes?"

I don't appreciate that jab.  I said before, nobody's perfect, in fact, we're all so far from perfect it's rather amusing.

What I'm saying is "there's bad apples in every religion" and the LDS church is no exception to the rule.

You can't just pick on one religion just because it's different.  That's not really fair.

Andali

[Leyla]

LOL! Who said I picked one? You must not be familiar with my posts.

[mactombs]

Someone told me mormons believe when they die they become
a god of their own planet...Is that really their belief?

I don't know if it is cannon, but vaguely, yes. I tried to look up the answer on the official church site, but I couldn't find it.

Basically, if a couple has attained the highest degree of glory and so forth, eventually they become like god. That's the best I can answer without digging deeper than just my memory after all these years.

[TheDarkApprentice]

As a former Mormon myself, Im not really suprised to see this article. Proxy Baptisims are mormons way of trying to "save" their lost loved ones who wernt mormon themselves.

But when I was in 6th grade and did baptisims for the dead, it was for random people and no relatives what soever.

But ya, im appalled to the idea of the whole proxy baptisim things. Mormons will say that they are giving their relatives another option or a gift or another chance. To me, its just plain rude and makes me hate mormons more.

My 3 cents