Astral Postmarks

[Eol007]

Hi MajorTom,

I'll keep your note about eyes in mind. I am someone who has only but recently started to successfully induce OBE's again after a 20 yr gap. Other than that I have had various spontaneous OBE's over that time. So I'll keep that useful idea on board for the future.

Cheers,


Stephen

[Eol007]

Hi MajorTom,

Nice one and thanks for the encouragement.

quote:Originally posted by MajorTom

Hi Stephen..interesting synchronicity..almost at the same time you were writing about your "20 years" I was wiriting this post..
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11523

nice..

Actually I have been trying to get projecting again on and off over the last 5 odd years. With the exception of self induced OBEs I have been blessed to have had a wonderful range of what can I say 'spirtitual experiences'. I originally came across an earlier incarnation of the Astralpulse site via the now departed Spirtweb back in '99, and have followed AP ever since, albeit as a lurker (ummm). Actually I wrote to Robert Bruce about then and was surprised to receive a reply.

Hope you do not mind a potted history: I am one of those (like many here) who enjoyed and remembered having had natural OBEs' in childhood. Then as a teenager came across one of Douglas Bakers books, which at the time was a revelation, and my formative experience suddenly made sense. I practiced Baker's techniques with some success, but this petered off as life issues took precedence and I lost interest. In my early twenties I had some frightening sleeping paralysis episodes and some, as they seemed at the time very freaky lucid and precognitive dreams. Swiftly skipping forward to my late 30's following a major life lesson I had a humongous spiritual experience which kick started an avaricious interest and search in to all things spiritual, esoteric, paranormal, psychic, spirit communication and healing. You name it!!! Since then I had kept my earlier interest in astral projection on the back burner - until recently after receiving the mailing about and then attending the UK workshop. This was an opportunity that just could not be missed! So here I find myself yet again finding myself restarting a part in the wonderful arena of Astral Projection.

I would be interested to know your story?

Ta again for your encouragement.


Stephen

[catmeow]

hey

I'm a bit like the two of you!  I'm an old-timer now and been pursuing OOBs for probably 28 years!  As you know I'm not convinced that my experiences are "real" in the conventional sense, but I've had many of them now...

A number of incontrevertible non-OOB psychic experiences too which help to keep the interest up...  no I don't mean results slightly above what would be expected by chance... but absolutely 100% accuracy... but that's another story..

I'm afraid I don't know Don Degracia, David Warnwer or Stephen Moon.. perhaps they are American (I'm in the UK)

But I do remember Dr Douglas Baker's books and the great illustrations which I loved!  Did you ever read Sylvan Muldoon's book?  (The Projection of the Astral Body) Sylvan Muldoon predates Monroe/Peterson/Bruce/Moen/Buhlman etc by miles.  Also Oliver Fox?? (Astral Projection)

Myself.... I got really interested in AP as a teenager after reading Muldoon's book.  I determined that I would definitely project, the night I finished the book!  So after an uneventful night's sleeping, I woke at about 10am on a saturday morning.  I could hear other people moving round the house and my mother messing around in the kitchen.  I relaxed and concentrated with all my will power to float up.  Well blow me if I didn't do it!!  I just felt myself floating right up towards the ceiling. When I got there I examined the polystyrene ceiling tiles from about 2 inches away.  I think I kind of drifted into a dream then and woke up a little later. After that i was hooked.

I actually wrote a thesis on AP for my General Studies A level and my tutor gave me an "A"!

But life gets in the way and I lost interest/time.  Just now I seem to have had a bit of a resurge of interest tho....  think this is due to the fact that i smashed my knee up skiing and can't do much right now except hover round the 'puta....  I'm sure life will get in the way again soon tho!

catmeow

[catmeow]

Good post MajorTom

I'm at work right now... so don't expect a reply for some time!!  But i will try to later...

How much concensus did you and your future wife have while meeting OOB?

catmeow

[Eol007]

Hi,

Wonderful story with a successful romance to boot!

Cheers.

[catmeow]

Hi MajorTom

Just a few comments to add to your stuff...!

"Several dreams after that where I found myself flying own the stairs clarified to me why it would be not be a good idea to jump down in real life"

I too have an obsession with flying/jumping down stairs in my dreams.  In my dreams, I often find myself at the top of a stairwell and find myself leaping/flying down each flight of stairs in one bound.  I do this really quickly and whizz down the stairs.  This invariably is a precursor to lucidity.  I enjoy this leaping/flying tremendously...

"I would often find myself dreaming at night that I was having an OBE. Quite often, in those dreams I would find myself in unknown bedrooms where I would feel the vibrations and leave my dream body! The difference between my OBE's and those dreams became hard to tell especially because such dreams were often fully lucid. "

Me too, I often "dream" that I am OOBing (or dream that I am LD'ing) confusing eh???!!  Much the same as you, I dream that I have woken up and then I go through the whole beaming out technique etc.  In fact since I'm already dreaming i could skip the beaming out stuff and just get up out of my (dream) bed and get on with it!  This causes me an issue too, because I don't know how to categorize the experience... is it a dream an LD or an OOB?

"I came to the conclusion that the hot issue burning under the dispute about the distinction between OBE's and Lucid Dreams goes beyond just simple terminology even though the underlying topics of the debate are often not explicitly addressed"

I actually believe/suspect that LD's and OOB's are two quite distinct experiences.  Since I've been studying this topic for the past 25 years or so, I can remember the old theosophical theory of multiple bodies... physical, etheric, astral, mental, causal etc etc.  Each body corresponding to a different dimension/plane/level of existance, with the "physical" being the most "dense".  All planes of existence basically obey the rule that matter is moulded by thought, it's just that the physical world is so dense that it doesn't react that much!  The etheric/ astral and higher dimensions are much more responsive to thought.  LD's would then be the consciousness operating in the physical/etheric body, whilst OOBs would be consciousness operating in the astral.  Quite different things.  

The distinction then is that in an LD your consciousness is still basically bound to your physical body... and all the meanderings are "fantasy".  Levels of awareness are dream-like and the mind doesn't function that well.

An OOB on the other hand is your consciousness operating in the astral body, truly removed from your physical body, operating in a different dimension with expanded consciousness and awareness, sometimes a massively increased "sense of reality", 360 deg vision perhaps, enhanced senses, new colours and sounds, communication by telepathy rather than voice etc etc....

This is an old traditional view, but it is supported by several modern authors....

Buhlman speaks of multiple dimensions separated by "energy membranes", with the physical dimension being the first or "outermost" dimension.

Robert Bruce gives the clearest and best description of multiple dimensions and multiple consciousnesses I have seen.  His assertion is that we are conscious in all dimensions at the same time, and calls this "the incredible mind split" (chapter 3 in his book - read it - it's the best account any researcher has ever given)  Bruce asserts that the difference between a successful OOB and an unsuccessful one is whether we are able to transfer the memory of our OOB from our astral "consciousness" body back to the physical "consciousness" when we return to the physical.

Essentially, I think/suspect that an LD is just the consciousness operating in the physical body.  The LD itself may well reflect the activities and adventures of the astral body... but it is only a mirror, so to speak of what actually happened.

Sylvan Muldoon said something similar... but he actually said that the astral body reflected the actions of the LD... so he had it the other way round.

In all of the above I've mentioned words like physical, astral, body, dimension, consciousness etc etc...   In actual fact these are just words used to create a "model" of what is actually happening.  There may actually be no "astral body" in any objective sense, but the idea of an "astral body" is a useful construct to help us model what is happening.   The truth is that the entire universe might be (and in my opinion probably is) just one big consensus environment, occupying no space or time, and that the many consciousnesses and life energies sharing the concensus experience have agreed a set of rules by which the universe will seem to operate.  This defines our reality experience.

Mathematical physicists have in fact worked out a lot of the rules for the physical universe...  It may well be that there are similar complex rules for each of the many dimensions of existance.

"However, the concept of objectivity is not always a straightforward one. If objectivity means that the OBE state or Lucid Dreams would involve the existence of a non-physical reality that can be perceived and shared simultaneously among different people, matching in every detail, and having some kind of permanency to it in that sense, then I highly doubt it"

Actually, I think I disagree... I think that the "astral" world is (or should be) some kind of consensus world which we can all share.  Otherwise it all seems a bit pointless.....!!!

My definition of "reality" I think would have to contain an element of shared experience between consciousnesses.  Otherwise "my reality" has no overlap with "your reality" and therefore "you" don't actually exist in my world and "I" don't exist in yours.

"But before even beginning to use terms such as objectivity and subjectivity, there must be some sort of agreement first on its meaning, and they may not be the most useful concepts to either approach physical reality or non-physical reality to begin with."

Absolutely.  I would suggest that "objective" is synonymous with "shared/collective experience"  and "subjective" is synonymous with "individual experience".  This is a better definition than "something which exists external to ourselves".

"As noted by Donald DeGracia in his 'Plane Talks' there is no such thing as an objective reality that can clearly be separated from ourselves"

I must read his book, he sounds switched on....

"In those terms, that which we call physical reality is not at all what it seems. In the words of DeGracia, our brains create the world that we perceive, whether in the presence or absence of sensory information"

True.  Hence we can never actually prove that the physical world has any existence, beyond our (mutually agreed) interaction within it.

"Therefore there is no such thing as an objective world that exists outside of our heads and neither does such a world exist during OBE's and Lucid Dreams"

True, but we have agreed a concensus physical world within which we all operate, and this is apparently permanent and collective.  I think this defines what we normally agree to be "reality".  I say apparently, because it's quite possible that the whole physical universe was created a couple of seconds ago and we have all been planted in it with a fake set of memories and experiences.  It's also possible that this world could then just be switched off again!

"I am presented with experiences that have a feeling of reality in no way different from how I experience physical reality, which should put the reality value of physical reality as much in question as that of non-physical reality. This may seem trivial, but scientific rigor, if applied to one end of the spectrum, should work in both directions. If I question the feeling of reality of experiences in the OBE or Lucid Dreaming realm, then it only makes sense to do the same thing concerning our feeling of reality towards physical reality"

True.  I do question it.  But it's a damned good and persistant illusion of reality!  It p%&&%s me off that my bashed knee hurts a lot today and it will hurt again tomorrow!!!

"And, as far as I can tell, the feeling of reality we assign to experience in physical reality has little to do with 'physicality', but appears to rely solely on rhetoric and persuasion and our attitude towards it."

Well yes i agree, but in actual fact I have a suspicion that "reality" is in fact one of the universes absolutes.  There are many accounts of those who OOB'd and experienced a massively heightened "sense of reality".  So when they returned to the physical, the physical world seemed like a dream, by comparison.  Personally, I can just about tell the difference between a "dream" and reality".  Most of my LD's are "dream-like".  Some, a few, are extremely "real", and then it's harder to tell.  But I suspect that we can all recognise "reality" when we experience it.  It may be one of the few universal yardsticks, and as you say has nothing to do with "physicality".

"Does it end with the imagination, expectations, beliefs (conscious or unconscious) experienced as if existing outside of oneself, or is there something beneath these known layers of the conscious and unconsious mind that has purpose and intelligence. And if we find it, can we just brush it aside as 'the amazing workings of the imagination, but nothing more than that'?."

Good question!  Wish I knew the answer...

In truth, mathematical physicists have now worked out most of the rules that govern the "physical universe model".  Apparently there are 11 dimensions, and matter is made up of "strings".  There are many, possibly an infinite number of parallel universes, all separated by a whisker and they could collide at any moment.  Gravity waves wash right through the whole lot of them.  Because the mathematics fits perfectly the observed behaviour of the universe it is therefore by definition correct.  But it's well weird... and if we can believe all that 11 dimension infinite parrallel universe stuff... we can believe anything!  Seriously...!

catmeow

[Eol007]

Hi,

Fascinating discussion even if the green eyes have faded from focus.  

I would not even begin to dare to respond to your expert metaphysical musing. On the other hand I would be more than interested in learning how each of you moved from say early paranormal or OBE experience to beginning to seriously question your place in 'all that is'?

Clearly you have derived not only a tremendous wealth of experience on your respective quests, but also have found yourselves truly enjoying being actors on the stage of the journey.

How did you perceive or find early OBE or LD experience as benefiting and acting as influences in your later search for greater truth?

S

Only but a humble student on the sidelines [)]

[Eol007]

Hi MajorTom,

Thank you for your thoughts. I appreciate that spelling them out has had tremendous value for you. I always find if fascinating how ones own spirit communicates with the conscious aspect of ourselves, and it always seems to be there when we need it the most (regardless of denial at a conscious level).

Allow me to be go completly off track and selfishly share a little muse: -

Contact with ones own spirit -

For me this most commonly occurs through intuitive hunches during the waking day, or via dreams, deep meditation and occasionally highly symbolic LD or AP's (however infrequent). Sometimes I am reminded by this greater aspect in and around the handling of for instance a difficult life lesson. This is often preceded by weeks or even months of sharply focused and sometimes profound lucid dreams, precognition and sometime bizarre synchronous events!

Without going onto the ins and outs of the circumstances of any particular lesson - the most powerful experience had so far with soul or self realization came following a point in life where I allowed my to wallow in deep self despair. A realization entered my mind that if only one particular individual other than myself could be helped then I would gladly sacrifice all opportunities in this life past, present and future, Just so that they could enjoy the a life they had not had a chance to have. The very second this thought had cleared my mind and heart  - what could only be described as an Angelic voice called my name (I had heard it before at other times in my life, but chose not to act on the call). It felt as if the Angelic caller was not only fully and completely sounded at the core of my being, but also all around and absolutely embracing if perceived as an exterior feeling. At that moment it was as if I was more loved than through all my existence spent in a hundred life times and more. Slowly the feeling faded by I felt cocooned in a bubble of warmth for what seemed months thereafter... the rest is personal history.

I have learned to love my own spirit or I have experienced and know with out a doubt that I am totally and completely loved regardless of life's trails however hard. Since that moment I have dedicated my self to giving service to the other and place myself in absolute trust of the greater truth an live life thankful of this gracious opportunity we are all given. OK the path gets wobbly from time to time, but I steady myself by sending that most simple of thoughts to my own heart that I am loved. AS per the song 'All you need is'. Love yourself as you would wish the other to love you. After that miracles can and do happen wit out a doubt.

So ever since I live life in the moment as best I possibly can.

Oh back to Astral Postmarks and OBE's – I had met some green eyed travelers in what I thought was an LD once, they talked to me without words and very strange experience it was too, but that's another story.

Live a little,


S

[Kazbadan]

Usually it is difficult to read a post with more than, let´s say, 30 lines, but all of your posts (with many, many lines) were really  interesting and easy to read! The shared experiences that you had are really pleasurable to read!

I am not an ober, i never had a counscous obe (only partial phenomenons, but i am interested on having obes. Maybe you dont know me here from the forums, but i think that people looks at me as being a very boring poster for one little reason: i am always asking about the reality of obes.

All of you are experienced obers, and i will take the opportunity to ask you this: do you have proofs (proofs for your self, like simples tests) that your obes were real? And by real i mean...real! Maybe obes are just a purely mental phenomenon like dreams (in this point i am seeing dreams in a scientific perspective), unless they macth on many aspects with reality.

For example: you go out for an obe an see, let´s say, a white cat (that you never say) eating an apple (not very common) in your backyard. After that you see a Ferrari just in front of your front door (i think that it is not very common too....!). After the experiment you went on your body and you confirm every single aspect of what ou saw: the cat, the apple, the Ferrari...they are all in you street/house like you saw in obe. If this kind of confirmation happens more than non-confirmations (f.ex: you see your an accident on your street, while obing, that never occured or that will never occur), then you can say that obes are real.

But if obes have more non-coincidents (or non-confirmations) with reality (by reality i mean "the normal world") maybe there is something wrong. Maybe obes are just some kind of extremely lucid dreams, and like in dreams, sometimes we have coincidences...

Do you get the point of my question? Do ou have those experiences (confirmations) that makes you have shure that obes are real? I am just asking for self-solid-proofs that you may have.

thanks
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, getting to other points: MajorTom, i thinkthat you are very close to something important, something that i could only understand on theory (althought sometimes i can perceive it, not just theory).

First: have you ever read or contacted with the budhist religion/philosophy? Well, i think that you may find some answers. In this exactly moment i have no more time to right, so i will resume some basic ideas: for budhists there is no ego. The "i" or "myself" sensation it is just an illusion. A ilusion with form and color but still being an ilusion.

The universe it is just like an open place, with light and calm air. Someimes that air starts to move: it is the wind.  And the wind likes to dance and move around itself. How many more times it moves, many mores times will want to move because he loves the dance and he is afraid to stop it: "What if i stop? I will die...my dance is over and i cannot repeat it again!". But the wind doesn´t know that if he stops he will see his true nature: he his more than a gust of wind, he is all the air that creates all the winds in the world, and that air is calm, light, brighly and big.  

The wind is our ego, what we call the "I". The open air it is the true nature of reality.

I think that in a breif way this is the best solution to show you the philosophy behind budhism.

-Kazbadan-

[catmeow]

Hi Major Tom and "S"

I don't think I can match MajorTom's eloquence in his expression of what motivates him!  

For me it has just been a lifelong fascination.  Beginning as a schoolkid of 15 or 16 I think, when I picked up a book written by some Tibetan lama which had a chapter called "flying".  The short chapter was a brief description of the Tibetan's out of body flying experiences and stunned me because I'd never heard of such a thing!  So this was what I wanted to do!  For me the appeal was just to look out on a sunny afternoon at the sunlight catching the sides of a row of houses... and to imagine what it would be like to be out flying in the sunshine!  As a 15 year old you don't think of the metaphysics, you just want the experience!

And of course once you learn to do "lucid dreaming" or "astral projection" whatever you wish to call it, it becomes a fantastic secret second life.  For me it was (and is) just a fun thing to do!

But as you get a bit older you really do begin to realise how fantastic the whole universe is.  Advances in mathematical physics make you realise that the world truly IS an illusion.  A brick wall only seems solid because mathematics says it should be.  Not because there is any solid matter there.  The universe has no boundary, but it has a finite volume?  So where does this universe exist?  If it disappeared what would be left?  It doesn't make any sense!

I must come out of the closet too... I don't spend a lot of time pondering these things... but when I do think about them a little, the physical universe seems so implausible and ridiculous that anything is truly possible.  And that realisation has just slowly crept up on me!  And I really do believe it!  

I just wish this damned "imaginary" physical knee which I twisted would stop hurting!!!  Can somebody "imagine" it better please?!

But compared to what we already know about the universe, the idea that telepathy or clairvoyance or out-of-body travel might exist is a trivially simple thing to believe in.  I'd be surprised if these things WEREN'T true!  I really would!  We can have black holes which bend space and reverse time.  Surely I can tune into somebody else's thoughts?!!!

Anyway, I've done it so I know it's true...!

So I suppose my ideas are sort of scientific rather than spiritual!  Probably boils down to the same thing in the end.

And just to answer MajorTom's comments about not wanting to confuse the issue with talk of etheric bodies and planes of existance... well yes I agree that there is a degree of over-analysis here, but I don't take the notions of bodies and planes too literally... please don't assume I do.  They're just concepts to play with rather than hard facts as far as I'm concerned.  These things are not the "true reality" as MajorTom pointed out.  In much the same way, electrons and protons don't actually exist, but are just concepts to help us understand the physical world.  Ultimately none of these things actually exists... protons, electrons, planes, astral bodies.  They are all just part of a set of "rules of play" (given to us by a God?) which allow us to learn, experience and grow, together.  

Anyway... that's what I think!

Speak later!
catmeow

[catmeow]

Blimey!

Busy night.  I wrote and posted my reply before I checked for other posts!  Nice posts...

Kazbadan, I know what you mean about looking for "objective proof".  I can offer this experience.

Many years ago, when I first started LD'ing (that's what I call it), I was about 20 years old and living in digs in the South of England.  My parents were living in their little house in the North.  One Saturday morning I managed to "get out" and determined to travel to my parent's house.  Well, I found myself in the street outside the house on a bright sunny morning, and as is my custom, walked in through the front door.  Once inside the hallway, I met my mother, who looked a bit surprised.

I told her not to worry, it was all OK and led her through the sitting room into the kitchen, where we continued to talk.  I told her that this was an OOB and we could do whatever we wanted - so I pointed at things in the kitchen and made them float around the room.  Also I made myself comfortable by "sitting" on a small very fragile wooden sewing basket.  Normally this would have been crushed by my weight, but I told her not to worry because I don't weigh anything!  My memory of the experience faded after this.

I woke up a bit later, got dressed, had breakfast etc.  About an hour later, just out of curiosity, I walked down the street to a phone box and just phoned home to see if anything strange had happened there.

My mother answered the phone and in a shocked voice said "Oh my God!  I thought you were dead!"  She then went on to describe the exact same dream that we apparently shared.  All the details were identical.  She had been standing in the hall when she saw me come in THROUGH the front door, we went through to the kitchen, I sat on the sewing basket, I pointed at things and they floated around etc.  This was no coincidence!

Just thought I'd throw that into the pot!

catmeow

[Kazbadan]

Thanks Catmeow! I search for that kind of experiences.

But you only speak on one since all this years...what about now, does obe match with reality or they are just non-coincidents phenomenons, or the experiences are so non-relevant that they even not worth too see if it is real or not (lets say that you see normal man on your street...you would be not exitied to see if he is indeed there, it could be or not but it is irrelevant such "normal" fact).

From this options (or more) what is the one that adapts to you?

Again: thanks for your "little" proof. There was a Brazilian forum in wich i made questions about proof and some people didnt look very happy with that.... i really dont know why, but it is frustrating to see that kind of attitude, but good to see people like you, MajorTom and many others here in the forum, that shares experiences like that.

[holy reality]

quote:Originally posted by MajorTom

I've always been very interested in any astral experience that is unique to that state, and shared by different individuals. In particular, those type of experiences that were unexpected and cannot be traced back to expectations.

One of my own has been looking into the eyes of individuals whom I meet during projections. I came across it accidently where I was trying to establish whether the person I met was fully aware of being in the astral. After a brief conversation with this person, and him claiming he was fully aware, I instinctively (without knowing why)focused on his eyes and saw a deep green bright glow in his eyes. For some reason, this satisfied me that he was telling the truth. Many months later, while reading the dream journal of someone else, I read how this OBEer always looks into people's eyes to tell if they are luid or not. If the eyes are "greyed out" and have a hypnotic feel to them, the person is unaware or asleep. If the eyes are bright, and alive, the person is lucid and aware.

Any similar types of experience out there? Those experiences that seem to indicate the astral operates by its own set o rules?

i'm curious as to what exactly you define the astral with, and how you know that you are in it, as opposed to a strict 100% isolated to your mind dream (or maybe no dreams are that isolated?)

i had a girl i know tell me that she can tell i'm lucid by "brackets" or something like that above my head... it didn't really make much sense to me.

the only thing that i can really say for sure that someone is likely to not be a dream creation is when they do really unexpected things like running way faster than I can.... but who knows, maybe there is an unconscious reason for that.

The only way I really know is when I get legitimate information from them, but then I wonder if it's them I'm interacting with, or their unconscious.... or if it's a coincidence....

I don't have a real way of knowing/telling.... I sometimes ask them if they are real... last night my teacher said "I think I am, yes." i think i expected that though, and everything she said reflected my thoughts, but in a sort of telepathic feeling way, not a lifeless way, since she gave me obscure information that I didn't ask for and didn't make tons of sense... but didn't seem like something my mind would want to make up.

I don't know... it's all rather confusing.

edit: if you have addressed this in some of your other posts in here, sorry... I desire to read them but it's a bit too lengthy for me right now.

As for the person who somewhere in here asked about the objectivity of OBEs and seeing a white and verifying it, things like that. From my experience no, you cannot do that, not at all....  I'm happy when my room actually looks like it's supposed to and has most of the items in it in place.

[Eol007]

Hi ladies and gents,

I should really use a mild Ulster brogue! Therefore,

Hows about yee,

Great analysis, debate and serious food for thougth! I am sure that I will enjoy pursuing the linked articles.

Cheers or even better,

See yarr about (sounds like C Ya a boot),


Stephen

[majour ka]

Greetings, ive had similar expirience, I would say thats quite normal as the eyes are the window of the soul and higher mind (where the sence of knowing and pshycic ability will also exsist) is closest to the soul. The eyes are always a way of communicatng and If some one is senitive on the physical plane they can recieve imformation and a sence of knowing from the eyes so I guess its gonna happen in the Astral at its purest form. ive not seen grey ones...

[catmeow]

Hi All

Well then I should talk in a mild yorkshire brogue... lads and lasses....!

Thanks for the links MajorTom... I'll look at them very soon (just got in).  Here's another link.  I have an acquaintance who is very much into "enlightenment" and this is the web site of his teacher...  he raves about his teacher and the web site....

http://www.headless.org/English/main.html

Kazbadan... Yes it's been many years since the experience I described.  Around about that time I was having a variety of different verifiable psychic experiences... but they petered off for some reason.  But as for OOB/LD exeperiences, whenever I managed to get into an LD/OOB state my last concern was trying to gather evidence!  I just wanted to get on with the experience!  

Also it's very difficult to verify these experiences because I seldom find myself in a known local physical environment which I can later verify.  So sadly there have been few incidents similar to the one I described.  There were various other shared dreams with my mother when she was alive, and a number of curious coincidences where I spotted things which later turned out to be true.  Recently I was apparently observed in a friend's house (helping her during a reiki "healing" session) and I later met the person (the patient!) who then confirmed that it actually was me he had seen earlier.

I keep meaning to put a random card from a deck of cards on top of a wardrobe and try to see if I can read the card.. but I still haven't got round to doing this experiment.... after all these years!  I just know that once in my LD I won't be interested in looking for that card!

MajorTom... stop pretending to "reply instead of editing" just so you can get the reply count up!!!

"blimey" is that the time!
catmeow