Astral Projection: A Christian Prerspective

[NaCirema_NY]

It's Kind Of A Shot In The Dark, But Let Me Know What You All Think.

It Is Said That During Projection, Your Subconscious (Which I Don't Believe Can Die, Since It Is NOT A Tangible Thing) Separates From Your Conscious And Your Physical Body, As You Explore The World And Beyond, Unnoticed By Living Organisms In 'Waking Life'

I Was Wondering If Any Of You Think That This Could Be What Happens When You Physically Die, Since Death Could Also Be Something That Separates You From Your Physical Body.

It Is To My Knowledge That In The Holy Bible, After Ones "Death", Their "Body" Remains On This Earth (i.e. Not Yet In Heaven Or Hell) Until The Judgment Day When Jesus Returns To Earth.

It Leads Me To Believe That "Dead" People Could Possibly Exist Permanently In AP Until The Date When Christ  Actually DOES Return. After All, It Has Been Rumored And Experienced That Meeting With Previously Deceased Individuals On The Astral Plane Is Possible...It Makes Complete Sense.

And What Makes More Sense Is The Comparisons Of Sleep And Death In Common Catch Phrases (i.e. "Sleep Is The Cousin Of Death", "Death Is Like A Long Sleep", "With Sleep, We Die Little By Little") Because If Indeed Death IS Just A Longer Period Of Sleep, Then It Can Be Proven That The Dead Are Also In AP.

Another Thing That Makes Sense Is This: Once We Die, Whatever Mistakes We Made In Life As Far As Faith-Based, Doing Wrong, Or Doing Good...Sinning, And Repenting...We Cannot Change The Outcome/Consequences Of Our Actions. So Even In AP, Once Dead, We Still Are Destined For Either Heaven Or Hell, Based On What We Did While We Were ALIVE.

It Is Said By Some That Once In AP, You Can See A Silver Cord Connecting Your Body And Your Soul, Or (Subconsciousness). It Is Also Said That During AP, It's Not Possible, But If The Cord Is Broken, You "DIE" And Your Physical Body And Soul Are No Longer "One". Here's An Excerpt From The Bible:

Ecclesiastes 12:6-7

Remember him-before the silver cord is severed,
or the golden bowl is broken;
before the pitcher is shattered at the spring,
or the wheel broken at the well,
and the dust returns to the ground it came from,
and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

"Remember Him Before The Silver Chord Is Severed"

Can Translate Into:

"Remember God, Before You Die"

So, With This, It Makes Sense That It Is Trying To Tell Us To Remember And Obey God, Before We Die...B/C Even If We DO Die, And DO Get To Remain In Astral Projection, Until Jesus Returns, We Are Still Destined For One Of The Two Places We Go At The End Of Judgment Day. Thank You For Your Time. I'd Like Some Comments Back, Please...

[Stookie]

As a former Christian, I can say that astral projection and Christianity don't mix well.

[laiana]

As a former Christian, I can say that astral projection and Christianity don't mix well.

I'd have to agree with that, thought I'm not so much a "former" Christian since I still hold Chrsitian beliefs, I'm just a little more relaxed now about what will happen after I die.

BTW Re the OP many AP'ers no longer believe (if they ever did) that your consciousness "seperates" from your body when you AP.  Its merely the fact that you are able to tune into a different level of consciousness, more a "shift" than an actual "leaving"

Your body is not an empty open shell when you AP.

BTW I am not sure about others but I sure do get a headache reading paragraphs with every letter capitalized.

[RJA]

I am a Christian of sorts, and I say "of sorts" because I believe that orthodox Christian dogma has deviated extremely far from Jesus' original teachings.

An orthodox Christian will tell you that AP is "of the devil" or unwise.  This is because, without realizing it, they are ruled by subtle forms of guilt and fear.  They have been taught to "stay in line" with what their religious leaders tell them - come to church, give us your money, accept what we tell you.  In short, - be good little sheep.

However, most religious traditions tend to have a typical "exoteric" message which is for the masses and a hidden, mystical or "esoteric" message which is meant for those who are spiritually ready for the "real truth".  Jesus and Paul both alluded to this in the Bible.  Although the "exoteric" messages of the different religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam, etc.) appear irreconcilable with each other their corresponding esoteric traditions (Esoteric Christianity, Kabballah, Sufiism, etc.) teach a very similar-sounding message.  This is because the exoteric messages are rigid, dogmatic and based on written laws (like the Bible) whereas the esoteric traditions essentially assert that spiritual enlightenment doesn't come from a book but from the Spirit of God.  As Christians we start down this path by looking inward (Jesus said that the "Kingdom of Heaven is within you") and relying on the Holy Spirit for guidance and enlightenment rather than on a literal reading of the Bible.

If you want more information search the web for Esoteric Christianity, Christian Mysticism, Rosicrucianism, Theosophy, Contemplative Prayer, Gnosticism, etc.  Be prepared to read a lot of things that sound like heresy to the typical Christian.

As this relates to AP, I would suggest that we as beings are physical and spiritual and whether we are experiencing the physical, waking world or the non-physical realms have to do with how and upon what our consciousness is being focused.  When we AP we are not so much "leaving our bodies" as we are focusing our consciousness elsewhere.  We live in a universe in which we are awash in all kinds of energy.  Our typical five senses tune into a teeny-tiny selection of this energy and our brains use that information to create a physical construct which we experience as the physical world.  

When we begin to develop other sensory organs we sample other parts of the energy around us and we tune in, so to speak, to other non-physical realms.  Our brains take this energy and typically put it into a form that makes some sense to us, although it might be a distortion.  Folks on hallucinagenic drugs might see spiritual snakes, insects, aliens, or clowns - but those are just constructs that their brains are forming to make sense of the energy they are experiencing.

So, when we AP we are temporarily focusing our perception/consciousness on energy other than that that makes up our physical bodies and the physical universe. After a little while our consciousness returns to our normal waking mode - i.e. it goes back to taking its sensory input from our normal five senses.  When we die, we no longer have a physical body and physical senses to go back to.  

And also, in my opinion, there is a big difference between death and AP in that we are part of a much larger spiritual plan which calls for us to incarnate many times on our way to spiritual perfection.  When we AP, we get a glimpse into the non-physical realms but we typically are not completely lucid and I personally think that we don't what the heck to make of the energy we experience.  When we die and no longer have physical bodies and sensory organs our spiritual journey continues - we are met by spiritual entities that help us along and orient us to our new environment and we remain there growing and learning until such time (a concept that doesn't quite apply) that we incarnate again.

In this sense there isn't a "here" and a "there" - the entire universe is infinitely vast and also infinitely close to us (thus the concept of non-locality in physics).  So the dead who hang around "here" as ghosts are probably those who energetically will not move on to a more spiritual state - perhaps because they can't "let go" of something in this physical world.

By the way, - for what it's worth I would assert that the 2nd coming of Christ is metaphorical and refers to the process of enlightenment eventually coming to each individual soul (which, when it does will show us that there is no such thing as seperateness and "individuality" - when Christ said "The Father and I are one" and he wants us to be "one with him like he is one with the father" it alludes to the reality that we are all different manifestations of the same consciousness - God - i.e. everything that we experience is simply God, dreaming the dream of creation). : )

[Stookie]

RJA:

Are you familiar with the teachings of Rudolph Steiner (or Anthroposophy)? It's kind of a combination of Rosicrucian and Theosophy (he was part of the Theosophy Society but left because they wouldn't recognize the Christ). The majority of my pre-esoteric training comes from this.

I also still hold some christian beliefs, but I wouldn't call myself a Christian. Christianity was created by man as a set of rules and dogma that express the teachings of Christ (sometimes in warped ways). I just go straight to the teachings and forget that other junk. I think that Faith is necessary, but not to be 100% relied upon. Faith should take you into Experience, and I feel that's where many Christians fail. I also believe that Faith is needed in astral projection before Experience of it can take place.

[Blaze]

Hello NaCirema_NY:

What you expressed is what fundamentalist Christians believe about the afterlife. Keep in mind, most posters here are more metaphysically aware than that, and thus do not believe in a literal eternal hell, where Jesus Christ is damning souls forever.

The Bible itself states: "the Lord will not cast off forever, but though He cause grief, yet will He have compassion according to the multitude of His mercies." (Lamentations chapter 3). This is why most practicing Jews do not believe in eternal damnation. The Torah teaches no such thing, and the Psalmist states: "all the ends of the world shall Remember and turn to the Lord." This speaks of the Pre-existent Soul, and the return of the Prodigal to the Father's House.

Of course this does not neccesarily happen when we physically die. This why Jews and Esoteric Christians who study the Kabbalah, believe reincarnation is part of the process, in bringing all souls from the Alpha point of our Origin to the Omega of Completion. The Jewish Zohar, the most important esoteric book, to Orthodox Jews states:

"The souls must re-enter the Absolute substance, from whence they have emerged. But to accomplish this end they must develop all the perfections, the germ of which is planted in them; and if they have not fulfilled this condition during one life, they must commence another, a third, and so forth, until they have acquired the condition which fits them for reunion with God."

As to Astral Projection: the Zohar speaks about "out of body" experiences as a regular occurence. The Zohar states souls leave their bodies at night, and ascend to the Upper Worlds, to study the Torah's Mysteries. Keep in mind, Kabbalists understand the Soul is multidimensional and make a distinction between the temporal personalities we identify with in this life, and our Neshamah (Higher Self).

Since you come from a mainstream Christian background, like many of us do, you might be interested to know: Esoteric Christian groups, like the Rosicrucians, Gnostics, and Essenes, have a great awareness of the various planes and states that we encounter in the Afterlife Planes. And they understand there is a lot more going on than most people are aware of. Jesus himself is said to have only shared the "Mysteries of the Kingdom" with his inner-core, but spoke to the masses in exoteric parables.

The fact is, the Mysteries of the Kingdom of God and the true nature of consciousness is not perceived by the carnal mind, trapped in Maya (illusion).

All we experience is actually a radiant display of our own consciousness. This is a great mystery, as this physical and even the Astral world is perceived to be Real, but in reality, it is Maya (illusion).. infact, all this talk about leaving the bodies and death, is merely perception.

Our own Higher Self, our Neshamah, is not confined to this plane even now. And the knowledge of our Pre-existent Soul, is the basis of Self-Realization. Jesus Christ in the Gospel of St Thomas states: "when you come to know yourselves, than you will become Known.. but if you do not know yourselves you dwell in poverty, and it you who are that poverty."

The most important thing that the Ancient Initiates told us is to Know Thyself (Gnothi Seaton). Then and only then can the Prodigal have True Awareness of the multidimensional nature of creation and Self... and he can know beyond opinion and conjecture, what happens when the physical body dies.

David

[RJA]

Stookie,

Funny you should mention Rudolf Steiner.  I just heard of him (and Theosophy and Anthroposophy) last week and just finished reading "Theosophy" by RS.  Quite high-level so I'm going back now to read it more slowly and pick through the various points.

Personally with Christianity I'm at the "Where do I go from here?" point.  I've been a Christian for 25 years but over the last 10 my faith has gone from a literal one to viewing the New Testament as more or less a metaphor of the process of inner-transformation.  I like the description of "Theosophy" as the commonality or truth behind all religions - but it brings up the question as to whether a religion is needed (as a construct) at all for spiritual growth?

I'd be curious to hear your views on spiritual growth v. religion.

[Stookie]

RJA,

Theosophy is a tough book to grasp, but very thought provoking. "How to know higher worlds" is a great book for Steiner's groundwork. He left a lot of material to dig through.

I'd be curious to hear your views on spiritual growth v. religion.

Personally, I gave up on religion because it seemed to impede my spiritual growth. Not that it was wrong in itself, but
the concepts that were beat into my skull were incorrect with the REAL concepts behind the dogma. One thing that kept me towards the Steiner teachings was that he says over and over not to believe what he says, but to use his information to experience for yourself. You can't have spiritual growth without experience, and religion seems to limit experience, or place it all on the outside instead of in yourself.

[RJA]

Stookie,

When I purchased Theosophy, I put "How to Know Higher Worlds" on hold at the library and I notice it's come in so I'll pick that up today.

Right you are regarding religions tendency to put our focus on things external to us (preacher, Bible, activities) rather than things internal.  This feeds in to our inherent tendency to look for the easy way (sit in church, listen passively) rather than searching inside ourselves (ambiguous, less-structured process) for what Christ called the "narrow path".  

Also, if one sees Theosophy as being not a religion, but the "common truth behind all religions" then religions themselves are doctrinal constructs that spring forth from each cultures innate desire to seek God.  As such they get people on a spiritual path, but also invariably become dogmatic and are succeptible to the politics, powerplays and such that all human organizations fall victim to.  In that regard they serve a useful purpose, but I suppose when each person is ready they jump off the religious treadmill and pursue the less structured, esoteric spiritual path.  And I guess a certain amount of confusion is just part of the process. : )