A question for the esoterically informed

[rodentmouse]

hi featus i dont know much about maths  nor have i had much  OBE's   but i think that the answer  your looking  for can work both ways.

maths on the physical plane is based around definate truths about what we know of the universe,  but as we know the astral plane and higher doesnt work like that,  it is fluid and beyond all the physical laws which maths is based on in this world, therefore half of  what we know of maths today would be useless in the astral and beyond.  i doubt equations have much meaning in a "place" where nothing is  definate.

that doesnt mean to say  that maths is limeted to the physical world,  i would say there is a form of maths which can work in the astral  but nothing we know of and nothing we could comprehend.
But some form of system  which  would allow us to know the ins and outs of the astral, just as maths  today allows us to know the ins and outs of our world.

[featus]

Hi rodent

It's strange though, how the whole idea of maths is so...well, 'volatile' is the best word I can think of. Nobody has ever seen it or felt it. And it's hard to define it without actually using it, if you know what I mean. And yet, at the same time it's at the heart of everything in the universe, like the octet rule for example.
And it seems like there's some kind of pattern as well, what with the seven planes containing seven sub-planes; and the concept of the trinity seems to be pretty significant in esoteric ideas, not to mention Christianity.

I see your point though, and I haven't had much astral experience myself so I guess I can't really make assumptions about something I haven't experienced..well, experienced properly, anyway.

[Phong]

Have you ever noticed that wherever you see nature, you see curves, squiggles and jagged edges. And wherever you see man, you see his attempt to make order and sense of nature, by reshaping it into symetrical square buildings, parallel streets, and princess cut diamond rings.

Sure, we see the famous spiral in seashells and other plantlife, and nature no doubt has a sense of design, but mathematics is a product of the human intellect. It did not exist before minds were able to conceptualize it, and it will not exist after minds that are able to conceptualize it no longer exist. Math, in a way, is very much like a system of government. Democracy may exist in practice and in thought, but if intelligent life doesn't exist to practice and think of it, does it exist?

[blueflame]

quote:Originally posted by featus

This is a rather philosophical question. I have always been a firm believer of the "maths is the language in which God talks to man" idea -- everything on this 'physical' plane does, at the end of the day, boil down to fundamental and undisputed mathematical laws.

I was just wondering, for those of you who are familiar with the esoteric concept of 'higher' planes of existence, would mathematical laws apply there as well? Or are these higher planes so beyond mere human comprehension that any occurences there are above mathematical reasoning, in which case the concept of mathematics would be a 'shell' of sorts to keep everything on the physical plane in order?

I know it's a lot to ponder, but maths always seems to fill me with a strange sense of wonder and I thought this might be the place where I would get some opinions..

There is only threeness in oneness.

Here, there and inbetween, trinity. In our plane of existance there is math, time or what is "relativity."

There is cause and effect, which does not change, as well as organized patterns of refreshing energy which makes our planes. This is organization not mathematics, as there is only one.

There is an infinite amount of planes of existances, in infinite combinations. But the higher your plane of existance the more pronounced "oneness" becomes. The farther you go out of our universe the more ONE it becomes forever more.

In higher planes, there is only you, infinite or/and one of you. You experience that which you are through that which you are and are not.

As what you call mathematics labels an impossibility. Because your measures of your measures may be incorrect. As everything is infinitely different.

Mathematics is a small science of simply the inapproximate analyzings of similarity and continuity in the human mind.

So if you were to use an approximate form of mathematics or measurements of the infinite. It would be the following.

Infinity in infinite combinations, yet being ONE at the same time, beyond the time barrier and existance barrier.

[Haematite]

hey all[]

They say:" The thruth is like the art - it depends on the visual point". Well, as the Truth (about everything and the whole Universe) is only one - it could be seen of thousands and thousands different view points. Math is one of them. It doesn't fit to my kind of thinking so I use my intuition, but in the end we're both right - unless we follow the proper paths. There are just so many ways to come near to Truth that in the end the ways and means don't matter: you could believe in any religion, to use any possible methods and it's ok if it leads you into the right direction. Still our souls are similar to each other...

And if wellknown Math fits to our 3D world it might exist another Math in higher dimensions - 4D, 5D and etc. but we just can't take it with our little human brains[] Maybe the technique for using it is complitely different?!...

Be safe[]

[featus]

quote:Originally posted by Phong

Have you ever noticed that wherever you see nature, you see curves, squiggles and jagged edges. And wherever you see man, you see his attempt to make order and sense of nature, by reshaping it into symetrical square buildings, parallel streets, and princess cut diamond rings.

Sure, we see the famous spiral in seashells and other plantlife, and nature no doubt has a sense of design, but mathematics is a product of the human intellect. It did not exist before minds were able to conceptualize it, and it will not exist after minds that are able to conceptualize it no longer exist. Math, in a way, is very much like a system of government. Democracy may exist in practice and in thought, but if intelligent life doesn't exist to practice and think of it, does it exist?

Yes, I can see what you are saying.
But the reason we see these seemingly random squiggles, curves and jagged edges is just the product of n chemical bonds between molecules. The reason (trees, for argument's sake) seem so randomly designed is because n is such a big number for humans to imagine that we find it hard to conceive the tree as just a really big bulk of molecules, which was pieced together and developed in accordance with very basic rules of chemistry. And chemistry is a highly organised process that follows a rigid mathematical system.
In other words when we see a little tree developing into a big tree, we say, "How beautiful! Look at that beatiful tree! Nature is so beatiful and majestic, etc.."
But if we were to very carefully decompile and analyse this natural process, it would at the end of the day boil down to innumerable but logical processes.

Sort of like, if you buy a really good graphics card and a top of the range 3D game, for a top of the range PC, you will eventually get so sucked into the game, that it will seem to have a fluidity and life of it's own. In the back of your mind though, you will always know that your PC and your top of the range game is just a sequence of trillions of binary digits.

I take your point that man is exploiting his knowledge of mathematics and consequently physics and chemistry to constantly create new improvements, and to seemigly defile natural landscapes and processes. But that's not to say that maths and physics is man's invention. If you think outside of our planet, the reason the planets that we know behave the way they do is to do with the law of universal gravitation which is based on simple mathematical concepts: equality, multiplication, division and raising to a power.

I personally think that maths is the insubstantial essense that is used to 'mould' everything that exists in the material plane. And that's why I was wondering if it maybe has any application on other planes of existence, albeit in forms that we don't yet understand. In the Astral plane, we are about as advanced as the neanderthal was on earth. All we seem to be able to do is travel there, and bask and reflect in it's beauty. Maybe it's just a matter of (a very long) time before the esoterically-enlightened equivalent of Euclid or Pythagoras makes some kind of similar progress there too?

[featus]

This is a rather philosophical question. I have always been a firm believer of the "maths is the language in which God talks to man" idea -- everything on this 'physical' plane does, at the end of the day, boil down to fundamental and undisputed mathematical laws.

I was just wondering, for those of you who are familiar with the esoteric concept of 'higher' planes of existence, would mathematical laws apply there as well? Or are these higher planes so beyond mere human comprehension that any occurences there are above mathematical reasoning, in which case the concept of mathematics would be a 'shell' of sorts to keep everything on the physical plane in order?

I know it's a lot to ponder, but maths always seems to fill me with a strange sense of wonder and I thought this might be the place where I would get some opinions..