OBE to parallel reality RTZ?

[c0sm0nautt]

So lately around these forums there has been a lot of discussion on what is a "dream," a "lucid dream" and "OBE". How do these interrelate to each other? What is the RTZ and does it have any relation to physical reality beyond our expectations? Well, this experience leads to more questions than it answers. But for me, it shows the fools errand of trying to categorize and label these experiences.  

July 20, 2011 "OBE to Parallel Reality"

At first I find myself in a dream living in a house. I was interacting with my brothers, but the house and everything else, including my brother's friends, were different from waking reality.

At some point I realized I was laying in bed and I felt myself starting to lift out of my body. I had the sensation of my legs lifting in the air. Then I consciously thought I would roll out of my body. I found myself with the perception of walking around my room but with no visual sight. I walked over to my window and requested sight, and I was now able to see out my window.  

The strangest thing was I found myself with my acquaintance/friend Ralph in the room. He lives in the next neighborhood over in waking reality. He was astonished by the experience. I asked him if he wanted to fly around and he agreed. We fly through my window. While on my roof Ralph said that he hasn't "done this since he was a little kid." I'm keeping my eye out for reality fluctuations, but everything seems normal to me. However, looking back, nothing was right! I remember seeing this strange car with these weird color panels on the side – Although it looked normal to me in the experience, my waking mind would have picked it out right away.

As we flew around we decided to fly to Ralph's house. I was occasionally repeating mantra as we flew. Ralph commented, "Does that mean anything?" and I replied, "It just helps me stay focused." I remember commenting on how I had more control and focus than I'd ever had before. At one point I picked a flower and smelt it, passing it to Ralph. I remember saying, "If we can create this in our mind we are more than our physical bodies" or something along those lines.

When we get to Ralph's house he comments on how it is not the same as it normally is. We start to talk about how we may be in a parallel reality, or a lot of trips to the RTZ may be different times and realities. I made the intent command "I wish to see Ralph's real house" and the scene slightly changed. His Mom came in the garage area, but Ralph did not seem entirely convinced. He went outside the garage to see how the house looked from there.

At the next point Cory, an acquaintance who lives in that area, walks out of this area and now Ralph may have been changed to Dave, who also lives in that neighborhood. They do their usual eccentric greeting to each other. Then this other kid comes out of somewhere who I seem to know in the dream, and he laughs "I know where you live" as I recall the memory of him being at my house. In waking reality I have no idea who this person is at all. As soon as I thought about trying to get the lottery numbers I awakened.
___________________________________________________________

So how would you classify this experience?
- I seemed to have two sets of memories - One from some other life and one of this waking life
- I had the classic sensation of floating out of my body and starting in a perceived neighborhood
- I found myself greeted by and traveling with a friend who seemed entirely objective, even skeptical and conversational
- I thought I was in my neighborhood, but it turns out this neighborhood was that of my secondary dream, parallel self?

In short, this one really threw me for a loop. It had component of OBEs, LDs and spontaneous night dreams, which furthers my thinking that there is no fine line between these experiences.

What do you think?

[Xanth]

So how would you classify this experience?

In my own terms... you started off with a Dream Awareness, then once you noticed the differences, you increased to a Lucid Awareness.  At which point you began to receive senses from your physical body lying in your bed.  This probably triggered the Astral Awareness.

You retained that Astral Awareness until the end of the experience when you woke up.

- I seemed to have two sets of memories - One from some other life and one of this waking life

The two sets of memories are actually just one, but you were perceiving your physical, conscious memories... seemingly along side the "non-physical" subconscious ones as well, which were associated with the experience you were having.

- I had the classic sensation of floating out of my body and starting in a perceived neighborhood

Just perception.  Your "exit" was a classic separation OBE from the moment you returned your focus to your physical reality.  This seemingly happened automatically for you, but it's not required.  You could have always just shifted your awareness here through Intent.

- I found myself greeted by and traveling with a friend who seemed entirely objective, even skeptical and conversational

They could have been your actual friend... a guide... or some other creation from your mind.  I usually judge it by how interactive they are.  In any case, it could have been anything, so I wouldn't get hung up on the specific details of "who" it was.  My judge is: Was the information provided interesting? 

- I thought I was in my neighborhood, but it turns out this neighborhood was that of my secondary dream, parallel self?

It could very well have been as you suggested, your neighbourhood with some subconscious fluctuations thrown in.

In short, this one really threw me for a loop. It had component of OBEs, LDs and spontaneous night dreams, which furthers my thinking that there is no fine line between these experiences.

What do you think?

To me, this is a great example of shifting between different reality frames while retaining different levels of conscious awareness. 

Above all else, it sounds like a truly great experience.    Good job!

[Astral316]

It's funny, I had a similar experience once where I projected through a city I live close to. I was certain that everything was realistic and yet there was a massive water fountain-like thing covering a portion of it. Other times I'm pretty good at playing "spot the difference." I wonder what the difference maker is between the two scenarios... perhaps parallel world/life vs. nearer to physical RTZ?

As we flew around we decided to fly to Ralph's house. I was occasionally repeating mantra as we flew. Ralph commented, "Does that mean anything?" and I replied, "It just helps me stay focused." I remember commenting on how I had more control and focus than I'd ever had before. At one point I picked a flower and smelt it, passing it to Ralph. I remember saying, "If we can create this in our mind we are more than our physical bodies" or something along those lines.

Love the interaction and overall imagery here...

[c0sm0nautt]

Thanks for the reply Ryan. You definitely gave me a lot to consider. I really like the idea of gaining different levels of awareness. I feel like I was in between lucid and astral awareness throughout the experience, or jumping back and forth, which accounts for the perceived dual memories. I'm tempted to message Ralph over facebook and ask him if he had a weird dream last night - There is always the risk of looking like a weirdo though.  

[Summerlander]

So lately around these forums there has been a lot of discussion on what is a "dream," a "lucid dream" and "OBE". How do these interrelate to each other? What is the RTZ and does it have any relation to physical reality beyond our expectations? Well, this experience leads to more questions than it answers. But for me, it shows the fools errand of trying to categorize and label these experiences.

Well, in my book we always enter the Phase, regardless of whether it is before, during or after sleep.

The "before" part includes what many categorise as OOBEs and wake-induced lucid dreams (WILDs) and it can be frequent to those people who have mastered being aware in the hypnagogic state and from then on can employ a method of separation post vibrations/SP OR try "phasing". 

The "during" is where dream-induced lucid dreams (DILDs) occur, where one enters the Phase the minute they realise it's a dream.  This, of course, can be hit and miss, but, it may be the best method of Phase entry for those who practice at being 'dream detectives', perform reality checks regularly, record their dreams and thus improve dream recall, and reinforce the idea in their minds of attaining lucidity in dreamland. 

The "after" part includes OOBEs and WILDs again, with or without VS.  This is probably the easiest way of entering the Phase.  One can get up from bed and then lay back down to induce, OR, they can partially wake up from a dream, remain still, and, enter the Phase from the hypnopompic state.

They are all Phase entries.

During the Phase experience, we may have one brain hemisphere more active than the other, or, both as active as each other.  This seems to be the case here with your OOBE, c0sm0nautt.  It seems like RTZ with a dream running alongside it.  I'd say it is a combination of Mode 1 (where the left hemisphere is active) and Mode 2 (where the right hemisphere is active).

Ralph could either be your friend's unconscious self that you encountered in the Phase reality, or, he could be an analytical element of your mind (from the left brain) which is represented as something that you know exists in actuality, in this case, your friend (and the appearance of the left brain representation could partly come from the right brain or the more unconscious side).

Your "Ralph" element comments that he hasn't done that as a little kid.  I take a step back and can't help but wonder that it is your analytical side remarking this as a portion of you realises that, as a child, perhaps you were more in touch with that Wonderland world (the world of thoughts, dreams and imagination).

As time passes in the Phase, the more active the unconscious mind becomes and the conscious gives way.  This may cause the environment to become less accurate compared to the waking world and eventually, lucidity may be lost and the OOBE turns into a dream. As you lose lucidity you are basically leaving the Phase and pretty soon the conscious becomes aware of the physical body once again.  It's a reversal of roles between the conscious and the unconscious really.

- I seemed to have two sets of memories - One from some other life and one of this waking life

This has happened to me before.  You have waking life memories and then you have dream memories which could be the revival of metaphysical events and plots that you created unconsciously while awake.  Another interpretation of this is that we lead many lives in metaphysical realities alongside the physical one.  While awake we focus more on physical realm life while the unconscious deals with the others.  When we dream and enter the Phase (the latter being a better focus), we become the unconscious and are free to peruse the metaphysical realm and we may acquire memories of events that we weren't focusing on before but now we remember as though we were.  Pretty weird, I know, but it seems like we can be in two places (not really the appropriate word here, I know) at the same time.  We experience the real and the surreal at once. 

- I had the classic sensation of floating out of my body and starting in a perceived neighborhood

And sensation is the right word.  Entrance into the Phase where it is perceived as a realistic separation is usually called an OOBE.  But then again, all the others (dreams, lucid dreams, false awakenings, NDEs etc.) can be regarded as OOBEs too if one has the sensation of being elsewhere other than laying in bed in the physical world.

- I found myself greeted by and traveling with a friend who seemed entirely objective, even skeptical and conversational

What you think you can imagine your subconscious can do a thousand times better.  Another aspect of your analytical side, perhaps?

- I thought I was in my neighborhood, but it turns out this neighborhood was that of my secondary dream, parallel self?

Possible worlds.  Possibilities.  Possible realities.  Not actual.  They are existent ideas which can be perceived as actual if you become the idea of you.  In other words, you have altered your state of consciousness to perceive another realm in consciousness.  Perhaps you were the idea of you before you were born and perhaps you'll become the idea of you again after you die.  Maybe death is another type of Phase entry with no return.  There you may peruse other 'ideas' until you identify yourself with them, or become attracted to them which may lead to another physical realm life experience.  Why not experience the idea on a grosser level, eh?

Considering that this metaphysical realm may be the limbo where all physical realities stem from, and that this universe may have started as a thought there too,  then it is feasible that the Phase state can be experienced both personally as well as collectively.

In short, this one really threw me for a loop. It had component of OBEs, LDs and spontaneous night dreams, which furthers my thinking that there is no fine line between these experiences.

What do you think?

I think there is no fine line.  I think it is us that change.  It is us that enter the same realm in different states of mind, different levels of awareness and different degrees of focus. As for lucidity...it is the same in waking life...you either know what is happening around you and where you are, or you don't until this realisation hits you.

Welcome to the real world, Neo! 

[c0sm0nautt]

Very interesting idea with the two hemispheres. How do you think this relates to hemi-synch programs? This experience definitely had the feel of competing elements... if that makes sense. Like my conscious and unconscious mind were flooding into each other.

I've been most successful with during, and after phase experiences. Never have I been able to go in before, although before and after seem nearly identical to me, other than the fact in after instances your body is already primed for relaxation.

The only thing I am confused about is how you see spontaneous night dreams. I'll use an example. I once had a spontaneous night dream, non-lucid awareness, where I was in this beautiful beach-waterfall environment. I climbed these cliffs to this house which I perceived as my land lords house. In the house was my dead grandfather. After seeing him I became completely conscious to the fact I was dreaming and communicating with my dead grandfather. All the other characters in the dream, except for him, seemed to become inanimate. So, what was the experience or memory before I became lucid? From my understand a part of me was having this experience, but I simply wasn't completely conscious to the fact it was a dream. Do you use "entering the phase" as synonymous with "becoming aware within the phase"?

Just something interesting about Ralph. He actually got diagnosed with brain cancer, and had a brain tumor, a couple years back. He had since recovered but I thought this was an interesting tidbit to add.

Because nearly all of my phase experience in the perceived RTZ (i.e, my room and neighborhood) are rich with reality fluctuations, would you say I am predominantly right-brain orientated? Or predominately left-brain orientated because I am able to discern these reality fluctuations in most cases?

Well, thanks for the reply and ideas Summerlander. I revisited Campbell's My Big TOE yesterday where I was up to one of the last chapters about how we have access to any version of ourselves via the information stored in 'the big computer' which contains every possibility from ever time point.  (Like when you said "They are existent ideas which can be perceived as actual if you become the idea of you. In short, I think it may have primed my mind for this experience. It's definitely making me think about the possibilities and how my old, neat labels aren't working for me anymore.  Oh yea, and I also when to bed last night after meditating for a particular long period of time while asking for guidance from my spirit guides.

[Summerlander]

Very interesting idea with the two hemispheres. How do you think this relates to hemi-synch programs? This experience definitely had the feel of competing elements... if that makes sense. Like my conscious and unconscious mind were flooding into each other.

Either they were competing elements or elements attempting to work together to form a more or less coherent or acceptable reality for the self to experience.  Perhaps around this time the corpus callosum, which is like a bridge of communication between both hemispheres, is as active as ever and the self finds itself torn between the two.  The hemi-synch products could well tamper with this mechanism and may facilitate the choice or even provide an array of altered states which may otherwise be difficult to experience.  But then again I've never tried it.  I have tried the Gate of Hades but decided it wasn't for me.  I'm to used to natural Phase entry I guess.

I've been most successful with during, and after phase experiences. Never have I been able to go in before, although before and after seem nearly identical to me, other than the fact in after instances your body is already primed for relaxation.

Exactly!  I've succeeded a few times with before but it is too much hard work and in the end, the result is no different.  During and after are definite shortcuts.

The only thing I am confused about is how you see spontaneous night dreams. I'll use an example. I once had a spontaneous night dream, non-lucid awareness, where I was in this beautiful beach-waterfall environment. I climbed these cliffs to this house which I perceived as my land lords house. In the house was my dead grandfather. After seeing him I became completely conscious to the fact I was dreaming and communicating with my dead grandfather. All the other characters in the dream, except for him, seemed to become inanimate. So, what was the experience or memory before I became lucid? From my understand a part of me was having this experience, but I simply wasn't completely conscious to the fact it was a dream. Do you use "entering the phase" as synonymous with "becoming aware within the phase"?

bonk me!  I know exactly what you are talking about here and this is a pickle.  But before I start with your dream let me explain what the Phase state means to me.  The Phase is synonymous with lucidity.  It is when the realisation that you are not the physical body hits you.  Whatever the environment around you is, doesn't really matter.  If you are in a dream, the minute you realise that it is a dream, that's it...you have entered the Phase.  It is when you suddenly experience that unmistakable clarity that you know you (your body) is asleep and you are in the mysterious metaphysical realm. So, more appropriately, the Phase is becoming aware in the metaphysical realm.

Now, about you dream which became a Phase experience...the memory you had before you became lucid is just that, a memory of something having happened or something which was previously identified as something in your mind (in this case your landlord's house) regardless of whether you were aware of making this identification before or not.  Another way of looking at it is that all possible events, all possible associations, all possible identifications and all possible concepts happen in mind (not necessarily your mind but it may be perceived as your mind if you focus on it - an illusion from the ego perhaps).  So, if all possibilities and concepts occur in these mind fields, we are merely the empty void where it all happens.  If this is true, this empty void is not "empty" in the way that we perceive "empty" from an anthropological point of view.  Why?  Because empty is also a concept that one can identify with.  This other emptiness is something else. 

It is like a blank-minded entity which appears to be aware or somehow alive.  This could explain why in dreams we may acquire memories which we never had before in the waking state and yet we accept them as normal.  It's because we focus on them and allow them to be part of our becoming.  We are becomers.  We are the nothingness capable of becoming anything.  Intrinsically,  we are empty, and this is the beauty of it.

I once saw some imagery in the hypnagogic state (of furniture) and I knew what it was exactly.  the concept was firmly in mind.  Suddenly, I found myself staring at it and I completely forgot what it was...and yet I could see the structure clearly.  The wardrobe was completely alien to me.  I had somehow gone from knowing to not knowing.  and then I suddenly knew again!  That was quite profound to me because I realised how powerful the mind is.  I could go from knowing to not knowing like a switch.  And then the question came...who am I?  I think the reason why we are unable to answer this is because we intrinsically stand outside of conceptual reality.  Who are we? Nobody.  No-one.  Nothing. - Even the metaphysical body, through which the idea of you perceives in the Phase, is a concept that our intrinsic awareness clings to.  In Tibetan Buddhism it is known as pristine cognition.

Your dead grandfather...he continued to appear sentient as all the other characters became inanimate.  I know this so well.  It is like they lose the life they once had before you became lucid.  They become mannequin-like.  Perhaps in non-lucidity, your personality is scattered throughout all the other elements in the dream world, but, once lucid, it becomes more focused on the main one, the main view, the protagonist - hence why the others become inanimate...like objects.  Your grandfather, on the other hand, could have been real, really him, living in the Phase world, possibly visiting you...hence why he remained alive or retained his sentience.  Either this or unconsciously you chose that element in your mind to remain that way and maintain the facade of being a living person in that reality (possibly for comfort or wishful thinking).

Just something interesting about Ralph. He actually got diagnosed with brain cancer, and had a brain tumor, a couple years back. He had since recovered but I thought this was an interesting tidbit to add.

Interesting...I wonder if Ralph had Phase experiences at that time which may tie with your experiences now.  Maybe there is a connection.  In totally believe that, in the reality of the Phase, physical time and space is irrelevant.  I also think telepathy and precognition is possible.

Because nearly all of my phase experience in the perceived RTZ (i.e, my room and neighborhood) are rich with reality fluctuations, would you say I am predominantly right-brain orientated? Or predominately left-brain orientated because I am able to discern these reality fluctuations in most cases?

I think you may be both and that is a good thing.  Balance is good.  I think you can be whatever you want to be really.  You may be more inclined to the left-brain but this is always subject to change.

Well, thanks for the reply and ideas Summerlander. I revisited Campbell's My Big TOE yesterday where I was up to one of the last chapters about how we have access to any version of ourselves via the information stored in 'the big computer' which contains every possibility from ever time point.  (Like when you said "They are existent ideas which can be perceived as actual if you become the idea of you. In short, I think it may have primed my mind for this experience. It's definitely making me think about the possibilities and how my old, neat labels aren't working for me anymore.  Oh yea, and I also when to bed last night after meditating for a particular long period of time while asking for guidance from my spirit guides.

This is what it's all about.  The sharing of ideas.  You know what, I think anything is possible in the Phase.  If you want to try something out, even if someone tells you it's impossible or far-fetched, just do it because you might just succeed.  Be it getting in touch with guidance or contacting the dead and what have you.  Go for it.  It's real!   

[c0sm0nautt]

I'm starting to really get a conceptual footing on where you are coming from. I suppose my problem is I still identify a lot with the body-image and the ego-identity. I can see how these assumptions flow into my dreams and phase experiences. I need to pick up my meditations on the formless aspects of myself in order to expand the idea of me, in all aspects of life - both physical and nonphysical. Thanks for taking the time to respond to my inquiries. 

[Summerlander]

You're welcome.

I guess everyone identifies with the ego and the idea of their self to varying degrees.  But that's just how it is, I suppose.  I find this life experience and very educational one and a very interesting perspective that has been acquired.

One thing is for certain, you can improve the idea of you in the Phase and apply it to waking life.  You can also use it to understand others more.  It can be so beneficial.  I think the unborn reality we encounter in the Phase is one step closer to the infinite potential of ultimate reality.

[Under_the_Midnight_Sun]

- I seemed to have two sets of memories - One from some other life and one of this waking life

Ah, yes- i have been referring to them as "false memories or fm" in my journal. I usually experience them about once a week during projections.They're quite strange, and many explanations could be made as to what they are. Perhaps they stem from many places than just one?
The fact that they seem so real and "usual" during the experience is baffling. We can spot reality fluctuations (usually easily) so, for me, that rules out the possibility of our subconscious mind creating these false memories. In my opinion they mainly stem from alternate realities, and us being in our astral bodies (at more of a unified state of consciousness with our alternate selves) occasionally download the same projection experience into their conscious awareness. So interestingly enough MAYBE a parallel of yours went back to THEIR reality and still thought the car with the color panels was the norm, but something (which seems normal to you- i.e the color of the door was different), and that self is trying to figure out why they thought that the door color was normal.

[c0sm0nautt]

Ahhh Cool idea.