"Guardian" are you here???

alt0xFF · October 14, 2003, 12:18:44

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suspenseLevel++;

Tao · October 14, 2003, 14:07:54

I hope she`s fine - and i hope she`ll be back to tell us what happened !

Good Luck Leyla!
Mihai

Van-Stolin · October 14, 2003, 21:25:39

Yeah getting really worried about her. She is really nice.

punkyou · October 14, 2003, 22:59:35

You have to be kidding, right?

Van-Stolin · October 14, 2003, 23:20:15

Why do you say that? She has her views and yeah she does seem like she isn't very freindly, but really she seems nice to me.

Leyla · October 15, 2003, 03:32:37

I'm alive!

Okay here's what happened. I talked to him and we agreed to meet. On my way there, there was a car accident that caused a traffic back up. I got there a half-hour late. When I finally arrived he wasn't there.

But when we *did* talk, I was told that he's had AP's since he was thirteen. He says he keeps going to a place on the astral that doesn't make any sense to him, it's a mystery he's been trying to solve, and he thinks that maybe I can help him figure it out.

I am guessing that's what he wants with me. But there might be something else he didn't mention. I only got a brief description of the place. He says it's random and chaotic with lines and numbers. Perhaps he wants to take me there, or have me meet him there.

I think I might call again (from a payphone) and try to meet up with him to discuss this further in person. Although I have no idea about this place he's talking about. I could only tell him that a certain amount of chaos is necessary in the universe for creative purposes. I told him what I knew and he thanked me and said that I had been very informative.

And punkyou was responding to the original post- not to VanStolins comment.

Ceriel N · October 15, 2003, 05:59:43

Chaos is what's on the other side of the figurative 'wall' at the end of the universe. Chaos is Notingness, null and void, but at the same time it is endless potential.
The ancient Greek said the Cosmos stems from Chaos, and modern esotericans, and recently scientists agree.

The Cosmos is governed by Law, and in everything here is Order. One could say that the Cosmos is Law, law of nature, powered and put in motion by potential.

Observe any system and patterns emerge. - Entropy increases.

However, if you only see part of it you can not make sense of it, and some things are simply beyond many people's prescent state of development.
This man must figure you have a greater perspective and see more than most people do, or altenatively, a different perspective that he wishes to study.

Patterns. As above so below, but we can only see what is below. Above makes little sense to us. We can only guess what piece of the puzzle should be in the empty spots.

Could you please tell me, did he describe the system of lines and numbers in greater details? Did he mention any other properies?

Hephaestus · October 15, 2003, 10:50:46

quote:
Originally posted by Leyla

I'm alive!

You didnt meet him, therefore im not surprised.

alt0xFF · October 15, 2003, 11:49:17

quote:
Chaos is Notingness, null and void, but at the same time it is endless potential.

I hope you were joking when you said that.

Ceriel N · October 15, 2003, 13:31:44

I take it you seek an explanation rather than answer, yes?

Okay, I assume you dislike the connection between Chaos and Void, as most people do. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

The void is not a place, a tangible thing or empty space. It is what doesn't exist. It's what's on the other side of the Event Horizon.
Concider what would happend if you dropped into a black hole. Your consciousness is an immortal principle, so it would not be effected much. However, your mind and body, governed by law, would disperse. You'd lack all sense impressions and ability to think...
The next thing you'd be conscious of is a proverbial Big Bang; the creation of a cosmos, and with it; everything.
This is how Cosmos stems from the Void, and the link from the void to chaos is quite simple: Lack of Law. In the void there is no Law, no patern, no nothing, yet it is from this that all we've ever experienced comes from.

Chaos, the phenomena, is potential brough under Law, such as the sea of energy bubbling in vacuum. As such it is not true Chaos, but rather randomness.

alt0xFF · October 15, 2003, 16:22:21

Ceriel, when I read your posts, I cannot but wonder how you carelessly jungle all these terms and ideas about cosmology, consciousness, chaotic systems, event horizons, void, black holes, entropy, thermodynamics, Big Bang, (I wonder how come you didn't throw String Theory into the pot), etc.

In order to have a fruitful discussion on these topics and how they relate to each other, one must possess strong background (at least doctorate) in traditional modern physics and be able to work with related mathematical apparati (that require a doctorate on their own), be a philosopher, and have thorough knowledge of esoteric concepts and be aware of the planes of existence other than physical. There may be a handful of such people on this planet, and I'm not one of them (are you? If yes, I humbly ask you to direct me to your list of published books/articles). It makes me laugh and cry when I see people start Cosmological speculations having taken college Physics I/II and read some Hawking [

)]. As such, I'm not qualified to rebut your statements so I humbly shut up.

P.S. Sorry for the OT.

GhostRider · October 15, 2003, 16:39:51

alt0xff wrote, "In order to have a fruitful discussion on these topics and how they relate to each other, one must possess strong background (at least doctorate) in traditional modern physics and be able to work with related mathematical apparati (that require a doctorate on their own), be a philosopher, and have thorough knowledge of esoteric concepts and be aware of the planes of existence other than physical. There may be a handful of such people on this planet, and I'm not one of them (are you? If yes, I humbly ask you to direct me to your list of published books/articles"

While that it is an important point to bring up Alt, (and I hate to play devil's advocate), but one of the current leading star-boys in all of physics right now (and a controversial one at that) is a guy who only finished a few years of physics then went his own way. But because he was so brilliant (or so damn different, I'm not qualified to judge...) the physics community right now is split pretty much 50/50 on whether this kid is just full of excrement or another Einstein... He has a new theory of time by the way...

All I'm saying Alt, is great ideas often come from left field, you should extrapolate what you need and discard the rest untill someone wiser or luckier than you comes by to correct you (either intentionally or accidentally). So even if he had those credentials, I'm not sure they'd make it easier to handle for you.

I don't know if Cerial N falls in the smart or smartass category, but enough of what he said sounded spot on that maybe something in it makes sense, then again, I could be grasping at straws.

electricdreamer · October 15, 2003, 17:49:12

while on the subject of physics, I must say I prefer the very simple version, as illustrated in "Horton Hears a Who" by the infamous Dr. Suess-it is simple but grand-everything is within everything and we are all but a spec in something larger than our imaginations could fathom....

Ceriel N · October 16, 2003, 04:14:01

I need an academic degree to use my brain?

Smart or smartass, it doesn't matter much to me. All I'm interested in is finding the truth, and have been doing so for... about 7 to 8 years.
So that means quite a lot of time and effort put on research. I've been through physics to philosophy and from there to academics, realizing that each of these groups are simply centered on different perspectives while the truth crosses all boundaries. When they get an important question they look a bit cornered up and then go "That's not my field.", or in the case of a physicist at CERN "Your theory is just as good as mine."

All in all my quest has brought me from a complete materialistic point of view to... here. A place where people leave their bodies to explore psychadelic realities, chat with aliens and practice magick. Now I'm trying to learn how to do all this in order to continue my quest for truth.

What I think is true is of little relevance; truth exists independent of me. Therefore I will not claim to ever speak Truth, but rather trying to explain something best of my ability.
Man knows too little to afford to discard the smallest grain of knowledge, so for me to claim something that I know nothing about to be true or false would simply be absurd. What I can do is apply logic to a set of axioms (self-evident facts) and see if the new piece of knowledge fits in with it. If it doesn't I won't claim that it is false, just state that I do not know if it is true.

That is what I base my previous posts on, which I for one think is a hell of a lot more convincing than an academic degree.

shaman · October 16, 2003, 08:57:27

Hey guys, sorry to fall in the middle like that...

Well the philospher is the one who knows a little bit of everything and the specialist scientist is the one who knows (almost) everything of a little bit. So sure if you want to look for an answer to philosphical questions you need to learn a little of everything, and it is not the one who knows everything about one field of study who will have the answer. Everyone has actually a piece of the puzzle, and the philospher is kind of trying to put the pieces together, without knowing what is that piece from/for ..etc...

As to chaos, there is the mathematical chaos, or even in the laws of PHysics. that's when there is no analytical solution to a problem, such as the problem of 3 bodies moving under their gravitational pull. Othere physical equations are what is called in math non linear and therefore they also can lead to chaos, which means that the motion and position of what we are looking at is impredictable (or predictable for only a very short time), such as the wheather, the shape of the clouds, boiling water, ... all these in the physics of fluids (gas, liquid) are called turbulence. Chaos is a whole field of study in math and physics.

Back to the void, you could say it is a place where there is no matter and no space... but what do you mean by beyond the event horizon...? Mathematically speaking the equations are tricky there, they are what we call singular. And the physicists make a transformation to avoid the singularity, which mathematically invalidates the equations... so none really knows for sure. For us, who are observers from outside it takes an infinite time for anything falling on a black hole to reach the event horizon, which means it will never happen. Even the late Professor Emeritus Nathan Rosen (who did his Ph D with Einstein and is famous for the Einstein Polodovsky Rosen paradox in quantum physics - EPR) was claiming that we are outside and therefore there is not black hole out there, but only stars collapsing that are "tending" to be a black hole, and it will take an infinite time to complete the collapse of such a star. But it is easier to assume that there is a black hole (point singularity) there, as we do assume in astrophysics that stars a point mass for the purpose of studying their gravitational effect. So, I do not know what beyond the event horizon, and if you fall there the tidal forces will ript your body apart, and if (say) you go there while OBEing there I am not sure it will work since you do no have a mass and are not subject to gravitational forces in the astral.

As to cosmology and the theory of the big bang, yes people have been able to calculate what is happening in the first moment at the birth fo the universe/big bang, but I never heard any one say anything about what is "before" the big bang...

And now back to the original posting of Leyla.
Be carefull Leyla that this guardian is not dangerous, as you know there are people who pretend to be "spirituel" and far from that (like the "babas" - if you see what I mean). Maybe you just don't need to meet that guy. And let us know if he is from the CIA or FBI...

WalkerInTheWoods · October 16, 2003, 08:59:13

The only relevence of a piece of paper is to look good on a resume and to impress other people. It is no guarantee that you retained any knowledge beyond being able to pass some tests. I can go to the library and learn everything that a doctor of mecicine, physics, or any other field knows. The only difference would be that I did not pay any money to learn and that I could not legally practice my knowledge on other people. It does not mean that they are smarter than I am, or Ceriel N.

Ceriel N · October 16, 2003, 10:32:57

Sorry about the off-topicness. =/

Let us assume that, for the duration of this example, by a miracle, we are indestructable.

Time, as far as an observer is concerned, does slow down around a black hole. However, someone falling into a black hole and looking away will see the exact opposite phenomena: namely the end of the universe. Approaching the event horizon, every star and galaxy would move at impossible speed towards you in what is termed "Big Crunch". After that... what? No cosmos to be aware of, nothing to be aware of; just nothingness. You would have no cncept of time, so the next thing you would be aware of can not be a part of the Void, and therefore the creation of a new universe is neccessary.
This same principle allows for an infinite number of cosmoses, alternate universes, multiverse, or whatever you would like to call them/it.

I base the main part of this on Descartes' "I think, therefore I am." which actually should have been "I am aware, therefore I am."

GhostRider · October 16, 2003, 13:02:39

Ceriel N, I wasn't trying to dump on you when I made the 'Smart or smartass' commment. I was merely trying to explain my position better that while I may not know what your true intentions are or what your real credentials are, that it's still important to pay attention for nuggets of truth and knowledge in what you say nonetheless.

By the way, we should move these off-topic posts to a new thread... hmmm... what shall we call it, hmmm...? "College Smarts vs. The Self Taught"

I think both are valuable, but considering what this thread is really about, I feel almost that where the topic is heading, is a little too high-brow for it. So allow my "Frasier-esque elitism" show...lol! Moderator of this forum or thread or these posts... please move this conversation (at least where it split into something of academic value) over to a new thread? Thank you.

Hmmm... I wonder if that'll work?

Ceriel N · October 16, 2003, 13:22:25

Oh, I'm aware of it. No worries. [

]
I was trying to imply that I separate my ego from the topic and argumenting about the topic alone. I was, however, a bit impatient at the time of writing, so I apologise if I sounded like I was snapping back.

I think the moderator can move the whole topic, but I'm not familiar with the software this board is running on, so it might be possible to move a portion of it.
Anyway, the new topic might be better suited under Metaphysics than here.

wantsumrice · October 31, 2003, 08:11:40

so what was the end result of all this?! the suspense is killing me...(or maybe i missed it in pages 3 and 4...

GhostRider · November 07, 2003, 01:18:33

Maybe it's because I'm from the same city as the lady who's posted this thread "Gaurdian, where are you?" But I'm real damn curious as to what's happened so far? Please, update us please? We're worried you know...and we'd be more than happy to know it worked out for you... so please update us...?

SpectralDragon · March 30, 2004, 13:43:53

quote:
Originally posted by Ceriel N

I take it you seek an explanation rather than answer, yes?

Okay, I assume you dislike the connection between Chaos and Void, as most people do. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

The void is not a place, a tangible thing or empty space. It is what doesn't exist. It's what's on the other side of the Event Horizon.
Concider what would happend if you dropped into a black hole. Your consciousness is an immortal principle, so it would not be effected much. However, your mind and body, governed by law, would disperse. You'd lack all sense impressions and ability to think...
The next thing you'd be conscious of is a proverbial Big Bang; the creation of a cosmos, and with it; everything.
This is how Cosmos stems from the Void, and the link from the void to chaos is quite simple: Lack of Law. In the void there is no Law, no patern, no nothing, yet it is from this that all we've ever experienced comes from.

Chaos, the phenomena, is potential brough under Law, such as the sea of energy bubbling in vacuum. As such it is not true Chaos, but rather randomness.

Ceriel, me and you could have very interesting conversations about that [

]

Leyla, I am going to PM some personal Q's I think you should ask him. If he is a guardian in the way I am thinking then he will answer if you press him enough on it.

Hephaestus · March 30, 2004, 15:40:44

This whole thing happened over 4 months ago, do we even know if Leyla still visits the board? [?]

Blackstream · March 30, 2004, 15:42:53

Seeing as it's been almost 6 months SD since the start of this post, I'm pretty sure they've either set off to their seperate ways, or have become best pals by now

Renaisance · March 31, 2004, 00:09:54

hey leyla, that's a really weird experience and I have no idea what to make of it. Just be really carefull handling it. Try doing what he said to see if that makes the dreams go away. If it doesn't work I think you have your answer right there. If you call him do it from a pay phone or if you email him do it from a library computer. Above all be careful and go by your gut. You should never agree to meet this guy by alone.

Renaisance

News:

"Guardian" are you here???

Leyla

SpectralDragon