Help! Fear lurks

[jilola]

Try seeing the stuff as their (your parents' and Christians')  fear of the unknown and of their own insecurities that they have transferred to you.
Or maybe look at it as the cheapest way to get an adrenaline rush http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_wink.gif" border=0> That helped me over some fears
The experiences can be scary at times but once hurdle of fear has been overcome the re are wonderful experiences to be had.
Like in most precious things in life there's always a price to pay. In this case it's the challenge of looking at yourself straight in the face and dealing with every obstacle one by one.

2cents

jouni

[rodentmouse]

i wouldnt call  exploring the powers of the human mind  evil or demonic,  and im sure god doesnt either-  why would he give us the ability if we werent allowed to *use* it.

put it this way,  if you built a car,   youd want it to perform as efficiently as it can,  and use all the features you built it with.  Youd be dissapointed if someone bought your car so they  could just beep the horn.

[Nerezza]

Don't be afraid. If your intentions are true, you'll be fine. Your relationship with God is personal and neither your parents or your church can interfere with that, not unless you let them.

From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken:
The crownless again shall be king.

[vk]

vk responds:

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses!

rodentmouse. Question: I understand your analogy, but similarly, just b/c a child has a curious mind, does that mean that the parent should allow the child to explore his or her surroundings without reservation? Serious injury and/or death could occur, it seems to me. Your thoughts?

Nerezza. Where does that quote come from?

Thanks!!

[jilola]

Just something that I remembered from my past: You can read about swimming written by people who live in a desert.
I was raised in a family that was (as contrasted with the local norm) fundamental. At some point in time (can't really pinpoint it) I realized a few things in a new perspective (I'll post on these on the "Belief overhaul" thread once I've put it in understandable words).
The thing is for someone from a christian religious background: God created us in His own image.
Now think about that for a bit. God is the extreme example of a spiritual entity who made us in his own image (we ARE God and God IS us).
This doesn't exuce us from anything, not event the slightest injustice or mistreatment of our fellow inhabitants of the world. But there is a great permission to make the most of our physical existence, to explore and seek our limits, just as long as we are prepared to accept any consequences.
So go on and explore become a wiser human than before and make the new wisdom available to those willing to stride on the path of their inevitable  advancement.

2cents

jouni

[Nerezza]

The quote comes from the Lord Of The Rings. My favorite book http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken:
The crownless again shall be king.

[rodentmouse]

vk  if you want to explore this then who is to tell you you cant.
There has been no death cases of AP  as ive heard.    
The people on this forum seem like  good decent people,  who respect and   tolerate others, and approach discussions with intelligence-  whatever "moral code" you follow in life is irrelevant i think,  as long as you are a good, decent person this is all that matters.    (im sure god is more interested in  good, friendly and  intelligent  people than he is with being worshipped).

it seems like you think (correct me if im wrong)  that by getting into AP  you are somehow neglecting your service towards your god.  
Think of it as an extra "branch"  of knowledge to study and understand,  if you agree with it then incorporate it into your individual ethos,   if not so be it,  but atleast you have looked into it and consiously  learned that you dont agree with it,  instead  of letting  religion and other peoples standards make the choice for you.

[Shayde]

I think the best advice I can give is to go with what you feel. Try it, and when you have your first experience and you get a bad feeling from it, and evil feeling then don't persue it. If you get a calm, good feeling from it, then continue. I can tell you that I have tried and failed at an OBE (Out of Body Experience) but the experiences I have had imbetween here and my goal (an OBE) have only made me want to continue further down the path.





To many stars, not enough sky.

[Avix]

quote:Originally posted by Shayde:
I think the best advice I can give is to go with what you feel. Try it, and when you have your first experience and you get a bad feeling from it, and evil feeling then don't persue it.

I agree with Shayde.  Listen to yourself.  Before looking into OBE's I did a brief study on magic.  To tell you the truth as soon as the book started describing rituals and drawing signs,  I felt something was just not right.  It isn't necessarily evil or anything..I just felt the truth is held elsewhere.  Please no offense to you magic users.  I firmly believe if you have a great relationship with God, listen to your heart...for he dwells there and you can't go wrong.  Expanding the mind isn't ritualistic or religious in any sense unless you start idolizing someone other than God so I feel that you can persue these interests and not tarnish your faith.  Just some quick thoughts..hope it helps and best wishes.

[Shayde]

quote:

I felt something was just not right. It isn't necessarily evil or anything..I just felt the truth is held elsewhere.

You know what? I have felt the same thing. I always knew that there was some thing more to the world, so I too started to research into Magic (magik magick) and felt that the meathods that were described were a little obscure.







To many stars, not enough sky.

[jilola]

Well ritual magic is just the external expression of the necessary intent and focus neede to do the stuff.  You could just as well tapdance if that's what hold enough meaning for you. It's an extension of your  will.
I looked into the stuff as well but I just can't stop giggling especially the time I checked Crowley's magical postures or some such (I can dig up th elink if anyone's interested).
But seriously, magic is what people call things such as AP. If you need ritual to do it that's cool, if you can do it in your head (which is where ti really happens ritual or not) ok. The only thing against a lot of ritualized magic I have is that it comes wiith a lot of baggage relating to negs and things that go bump if the night.

2cents not meant to dis the ritual types http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

jouni

[fredhedd]

a friend of mine once told me that there was some branch of chiristianity or something like that, who were very big on ap. he is a fairly reliable source of info to me, so maybe a little research into all of christianity would shed some light on something. if you dont find anything let me know and i'll ask him about it.
fred

[WalkerInTheWoods]

It was not uncommon for early Christains to fast and meditate. This to would most likely lead to OBEs, and in fact many are recorded in the Christain Bible if you look, though it is not spelled out directly as being astral projection but there are references to being out of body.
Also look at it like this, how is going to the spiritual realm to better expand and explore your spiritual growth wrong or evil? If we were not suppose to do it I do not think we would be able to. It is not the act that is wrong or evil. AP is just like anything else we do, it is a tool or skill. It is how we use it that makes the difference, if you wish to place good or evil values on it.
I suggest you read "The Secret of The Soul" by William Buhlman. It is a good read and he suggests that AP is a natural part of our spiritual growth and that early religious founders did it all the time and were actually reporting their experiences.
Your fears may be a little difficult to get over but you can if you work on it.

You have nothing to fear but fear itself.

vk:
Question: I understand your analogy, but similarly, just b/c a child has a curious mind, does that mean that the parent should allow the child to explore his or her surroundings without reservation? Serious injury and/or death could occur, it seems to me. Your thoughts?

Well do you think that God would allow you to get into something that is dangerous? There are safe guards that you must overcome to grow before you can continue to explore futher. Fear is the first and one of the biggest of these. Once you have dealt with your fear then things will become much easier.
Your astral body is invulnerable. You cannot be hurt unless you allow yourself to which is mostly by allowing your emotions to overtake you. Learn to control your emotions and you will be ready to explore the astral. Just remember that you truly have nothing to fear. Fear is lack of knowledge.

[vk]

Dear Astral Community:

I'm new to this website, but just ordered 2 of RB's books because I've been intrigued by metaphysics since a child. However, both of my parents became conservative Christians when I was young and strictly forbade me from pursuing any of this. I listened for hours as they discussed demonology/Satanism, etc. with friends and to this day I am scared to pursue this drive to go astral. Any hints or suggestions as how to effectively break through and confront this fear would be greatly appreciated!!

vk