HELP AND PATIENCE

[kifyre]

Sounds good to me. Like an OBE troubleshooting topic?

Mark

[quebec]

quote:Originally posted by kifyre:
Sounds good to me. Like an OBE troubleshooting topic?

Mark

Exactly ! I've posted a question in two topic since my coming on this site about two weeks ago, and never got an answer or reply.

To those of you that are OBEing every weeks if not every day, sometime the question from someone like me who has been trying for more than 40 years may seem dumb, or, already answered in Robert's book, but in our eagerness to get the experience of OBE, we don't always get it because we read it.

For exemple my question was on the rope technique...is there a time limit or a minimum time to keep at it to be succesfull at the same session:   Relaxing, trance, vibrations and do the rope...how long ?

If there was a "troubleshooting" topic for those of us that are struggling for their first OBE, we could find answers there or get reply from the ones who have mastered it, instead of running around all the topics on this forum.

[Frank]

Okay, calm down, after all we *are* on your side.

Understand that having a conscious-exit obe is VERY tricky. There are no hard and fast rules as to "time".  

Yours,
Frank

[Tia]

"To those of you that are OBEing every weeks if not every day, sometime the question from someone like me who has been trying for more than 40 years may seem dumb, or, already answered in Robert's book, but in our eagerness to get the experience of OBE, we don't always get it because we read it...."

Good for you!  I am always too scared to ask questions as I think I might be saying something dumb too.

I have never had a conscious OBE yet.  I sometimes get the flush/fast heartbeat/sometimes strobe etc.,  - I dont know about you, but after about 10 minutes I get bored with the rope trick and try something else, and if nothing works after an hour, then I figure it aint gonna happen.  Try again tomorrow.  I think it's good to analyse a failed attempt to see if you were too tense/impatient/whatever, and correct it on the next attempt.  I think main problems are those symptoms, when they get very strong it's the hardest thing to just 'roll with it' - I wonder if I will ever get used to them.    

[Mulldoon]

I must stresss that there are NO DUMB questions ......

First of all, we are ALL continuously learning, and we all started from knowing nothing ourselves!!!

This is how we learn, by asking questions and by experience...

If anyone says that you ask a dumb question they are just purely ignorant and personaly I wouldnt want adcive from someone like that!!!

But I'm sure that those people are few and far between!!!



Never does Nature say one thing and Wisdom another

[Grenade01]

Generally
I use everything in Roberts book BUT the rope trick
It makes me think to much and I generally cant get into deep enough trance's
I usually either just focus on my breathing and the vibes always seem to come
or I'll try and imagine a rocking ....much like sleeping on a small boat feels.

I find that there is no minimum time .... but actually a maximum time
usually If don't have one in the first 15 minutes..I wont
Definately I wont have one if its been 30.
Ive got my obe attempts narrowed down to about this
5 minutes relax
5 minutes energy building
5 minutes trancing

after that................. its either obe or no obe
i can see how the 3rd part would take longer than 5 if your not to good at trancing though


hope I helped you

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[Grenade01]

Wanted to say
Mostly it relies on a quick successful trance

Like Im sure you can spend like...an hour building energy before you trance

But thats just the way I do it
and I find if i dont have one right away, i wont

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[quebec]

I want to thank all of you for taking the time to reply. I was beginning to think that this forum was only for the "initiates", I appreciate all of your comments.

Thanks !

[quebec]

quote:Originally posted by Grenade01:
Generally
I use everything in Roberts book BUT the rope trick
It makes me think to much and I generally cant get into deep enough trance's
I usually either just focus on my breathing and the vibes always seem to come
or I'll try and imagine a rocking ....much like sleeping on a small boat feels.

I find that there is no minimum time .... but actually a maximum time
usually If don't have one in the first 15 minutes..I wont
Definately I wont have one if its been 30.
Ive got my obe attempts narrowed down to about this
5 minutes relax
5 minutes energy building
5 minutes trancing

after that................. its either obe or no obe
i can see how the 3rd part would take longer than 5 if your not to good at trancing though


hope I helped you

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Thank you for your comments.  I had the impression that the energy work was something that you do as an exercice, but not in the actual session of trying to OBE. I was doing the NEW in the daytime and trying to OBE in the evening. Relaxing, doing the trance techniques (falling), and then the empty mind and breath awareness until the vibrations come (if they do)...and the rope. Will add the energy building in the OBE session.
Thanks again.

[WalkerInTheWoods]

I will give a few points and hopefully these will help some of you. Just know that I have not read Robert's book so I am not sure what all is in it but the following are based on personal experience.

1) Be passive. Try to just observe and not think about anything.
2) Relaxing and trance state are very important and can vary to reach.
3) Chakra and energy work do not seem to be vital, as I projected before I knew about such things, but it does seem to help if you work on it. And I do suggest working with your energy.
4) Do not be afraid to experiment and see what works for you.
5) A technique that I find helpful is to just relax and stare into the darkness behind your closed eyes, the room needs to be dim or have a blindfold on as seeing the dark is needed. After awhile of staring into the dark it will take on a 3D look and feel. Just try to think about yourself in this environment and push out.
6) Another technique that I have had some success with though can be difficult is to relax and allow yourself to drift almost to sleep. Your body should fall asleep but your mind should stay awake. When you feel your mind starting to go to sleep jerk it awake. Usually after about 2 or 3 times of jerking awake I will jerk myself out of my body. The problem comes from not being able to keep yourself from falling asleep.
7) Do not get frustrated and keep a positive attitude, no matter how long it may take you to have your first projection.

[Grenade01]

Yeah.. Energy work is not a must
Im sure
But it seems to help
Not only does a better energy flow/source allow you to stay out of your body longer (according to Robert bruce)
Im sure it helps with clarity as well

Also Its just a good relaxing pre- deep trance thing for me.  going over each part of my body with my mind to bring up the energy seems to also have the effect of loosening up all my muscles.  
Take nothing I say super seriously, as I am pretty novice myself...
But I have OBE's a decent amount of times, and thats just my opinion



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[Grenade01]

You know
I definately agree with the not falling asleep thing though.
I think all these techniques and all the guides
are really not important

it seems like
just sitting down
and being able to take yourself into that state
without falling asleep
your sure to have some metiphysical experience..even if you dont OBE right away
its like you can feel there's something going on
its enough to give you motivation to keep doing it
and possibly even change your goal from OBE to something else

Everytime I talk to my friends about this kind of stuff, they complain about not being able to trance or meditate or have any results..but then Its like..I sit there with them and Im like do this now and DO NOT fall asleep
and it works
but generally something happens they dont expect and it scares them off because they don't truely want to discover in the first place
but thats another story lol




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[Frank]

Having a successful conscious-exit obe depends to a large degree on what you don't do, rather than what you do. From slowing down what used to be my "normal" projection process I've gained a lot of understanding about the preliminary stages.

For example, with the initial "stilling the mind" stage, at first your thoughts are flitting here, there and everywhere. Now, I think it is a big mistake to try and somehow blank these out. Because if you try and do that it you just end up fighting against yourself.

What I do is imagine I'm focusing my thoughts with a lens. I got the idea from when I was a kid. We'd get a magnifying glass and focus sunlight to a tiny dot. Enough heat was generated to light bits of paper or burn our names into a piece of wood.

So I think of my thoughts like they were sunlight being channelled through a lens. Once they have passed through this lens they are projected and contained within a small circle situated at the top of my head. Gradually, as I focus the lens, my thoughts become contained within an ever smaller circle.

I noticed that as the circle gets smaller their intensity increases dramatically. With practice I managed to focus them to an ever smaller and smaller dot. Then, something happened which caught me quite by surprise.

I focused my whole sense of thinking down to one fixed point of awareness about the size of a pinhead. Then, right at that moment, my collective sense of conscious awareness felt like it had been sucked into it. As I say, this caught me off guard and I immediately snapped back with a jolt.

So I tried it again and, sure enough, the same effect came about. I now call it the black-hole effect. After a few times my sense of conscious awareness became familiar with the sensation. There would be a kind of flash of light and then... zoom.. my sense of self would be on some other level. It was a feeling like some tractor beam just scooped me up. I think I'm "transported" to the Astral, but need to do more research.

A few days ago I was pottering around the house and a thought suddenly came into my consciousness, together with a big burst of emotion. It came to me that I could, quite possibly, have realised the true meaning of the first sentence of a book I'd read 20-years previously. The book is, "The Secret of the Golden Flower" by Lu-tsu and translated by Richard Wilhelm.

It begins by saying, "Master Lu-tsu said, That which exists through itself is called the Way." I'd pondered on this sentence many times as to it's true meaning. Eagerly I searched for the book and flipped to the first page and began reading. Hmm, it all seemed just as confusing as when I had last tried to read it. Then I saw one of the initial diagrams, entitled: Meditation, Stage 1: Gathering the Light.

Then it suddenly came to me, and I kicked myself for not having realised it before... when the book talks of "light"... it means thought-energy!

And now it all starts to make some kind of sense.

Yours,
Frank

[steveb]

Hi Quebec, I am also  a newbie so to speak. I have not projected as yet,I  viewed your post's and did not reply becuase of a lack of knowledge on the subect .I think a lot of people viewing the posts may be in the same position.
         With that siad ,I may not have a knowlege of projecting ,but I do have a knowledge of friendlyness,and in hind sight I say "Hello Welcome".

Regards   Steve

[quebec]

Thanks again for all your input. I have enough to work with for a couple of weeks. I liked your idea Frank in controlling the mind. The few times that I've reach the vibrations, was when I could empty my mind. They came shortly after reaching this kind of inner silence.
I reach more often the vibration level, their beginning or the big vibrations. A few times with the "flush". I get too eagered, and exited  to exit and realise that my body react by tensing out. There's no fear left, just too much exitement to be so near.
I understand now that to overcome this I have to practice and be patient.

Would apreciate your opinions on the exit part. Once you get the vibrations, flush etc...what do you do, how do you approach this. I use the rope now. Is there a special timing, do you project your awareness outside at that precise moment..etc.etc... in short your tricks of the trade.

[ralphm]

as someone who has recently been trying the techniques in AD and has spontanous projections in my sleep recently(before i tried the techniques) i would like to add that the intense sensations do seem to mellow out(instead of the  intensely  pounding heart it seems to come and go as you relax which is not as distracting to your trance), the stages seem to transpire smoother and you start to get used to the sensations. as far as the techniques i think it was mentioned in the book to switch between them which helps. also notice that there is some natural cycle  that seems to bring them on easier and spontaniously, just recently before the full moon it seemed easy to bring on the buzzing and  sometimes the buzzing would even wake me.

[Frank]

quote:Originally posted by quebec:
Thanks again for all your input. I have enough to work with for a couple of weeks. I liked your idea Frank in controlling the mind. The few times that I've reach the vibrations, was when I could empty my mind. They came shortly after reaching this kind of inner silence.

The inner silence is what is called the "stillness in the midst of conditions". It's a region that I'm only just beginning to explore in detail after having learned to slow down what was my normal projection process.

Yours,
Frank

[Grenade01]

Hmm Interesting
=)

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[ChopsB]

Hi Everyone,

  This is my first post, although I have been visiting this forum for about a month and a half now.  I haven't had an OBE yet, but I came across something related to what fallnangel77 said about falling asleep.  I've found that counting down from fifty is a good way to get into that relaxed state without falling asleep.  At some point you find that you are repeating numbers, or counting in the wrong order, or you can't remember where you are in the count.  That triggers your brain to realize that you were falling asleep and it wakes you up a bit.  However, this does take a certain amount of thought , which may in and of itself cause a projection to fail.  Maybe experienced projectors could try it and report back.  

 One other thing (this is getting a little long!)  How much are you supposed to be aware of your physical body.  What I mean is, it sounds like you are a aware of something like your physical body when you have projected (since you can watch your hands melt and such things), but are you aware of your body as you project.  I think I try to be, which is probably contributing to my failure.  Also, do you leave instantaneously or is it a more gradual process.

  Thanks,
        ChopsB

[Grenade01]

ChopsB:
Ive done this for meditation
and I have to say it does work quite well for me.
Haven't projected using it
but...Im sure it could work quite well

You must try some of my purple berries.
I've been eating them for 6 or 7 weeks now, haven't got sick once.
Prolly keep us both alive.

[quebec]

Hello !
Newcomer to this site, discovered it after searching for books on OBE on Amazon.com, bought Robert's book "Astral Dynamics", and surfed to this web site.

Been trying for a very, very long time to OBE. Started to try when I was around 15 year , I am now 57.  Never had a conscious one. I've experienced twice in the last 20 years the vibrations while meditating. Never really new what was happening.

Trying, in the last three weeks,  the techniques in the above mentionned book, I've had twice the vibrations, body flush. And I am very thankful to have learned from  Robert's book the symptoms in the process of OBE:  vibrations, cobweb, flush etc... and for the techniques offered.

My writing this subject is to ask to those of you who have mastered OBE, if you could please be patient with those of us who are struggling to get the a first experience, and give us an helping hand.

Since finding this site, I wrote twice, never got any answers. Even sending email, didn't get a reply.

I understand that sometimes some questions must seem dumb and are answered in Robert's book, but hey guys, things that seems so down to earth and simple to you, are very complicated to those of us who don't have the experience of OBE.

Would it be possible to have a continously active subject like "HELP"  for those of us who are fully motivated and giving it all they have, to post their question even if it seems futile to you OBE masters.