Is it possible to know?

strwrs_guru · May 22, 2003, 20:20:23

i have read part of the treatise on the nature of the universe, and i highly reccommend it to you. these are the things it talks about in there. are we a pysical universe that created mind to be in it, or are we all mind and we created the pysical universe to express it?

goingslow · May 22, 2003, 20:40:08

Thats one of those age old philosophical questions that is very hard to answer.

People usually think what makes something real is third party agreement. Often if a person talks about an experience people will ask was anyone with you to verify.

Its impossible to prove to someone else this thing is real and that what you experienced is real. I was lucky enough to have the vibrations and comment on them years before I read about OBE's so in a way that gives me some verification. But more and more I dont need that type of verification. Everything is perception.. its real to you because its in your reality.

If you're in love with someone but 10 years later you find out it wasn't "real" did that make the feelings less strong? It was real if the feelings are real its real. Its hard to explain or talk about for me because its such a personal thing. But if you are a person who doesn't have hallucinations and you dont have problems separating what has happened to you from what you have imagined that should be enough proof for you. As for convincing her Im afraid i dont think a person can be convinced what happened to someone else is real.

I remember reading something in philosophy years ago how if we were really laying up in a lab and everything around us was created by these people we'd never know. There would never be a way to verify it and some people would say nothing you experienced was real. But if you feel pain and love based on experiences in there those are real.. you may grow as a person from your memories of that place.. thats real. Its really a mind twister when you think of "reality" thats why I like to say its "my reality".

One reason i dont tell anyone my experiences rt is because Of that type of reaction. "couldnt it be in your head". I know its not.. it could be in theory but im stuck with my perception and I know its real. Even if it wasn't i wouldnt care though.. to be able to put yourself in such a state you dream all this up is pretty amazing in itself. Its also fun. And what matters in the end is what you got from it.

goingslow · May 22, 2003, 21:29:24

course if you're talking about proof you can do the card thing or visit her and verify something.

Oliver · May 23, 2003, 04:38:35

Hi,

You said some very insightful things goingslow[

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I'm not worried about proving it to her, I dont need to, I dont have that desire, all I need to do is prove it to myself. The experience is proof enough for me for it to be real, but I would like to do the card thing in one of my next obe's caus I have't done that yet. I haven't gone out of body for awhile now because of some serious energy problems that have affected my physical body almost everytime im in the vibrational stage. I emailed Robert Bruce and he sent me a couple of emails helping me out, in the end I think the most important thing he did for me to help was actually replying which encouraged me with doing energy work. My problem is almost cleared but not quite, I still have a little way to go yet before I think i'll be fine projecting again.

After saying all this I think I'd better say what my problem was. I originally went to Robert Bruce instead of the forum because I guess I was a little shy or embarrassed about it, and I knew that if anyone, Robert would probably have something to say that could help, after all his experience with energy. Well, I don't have a problem saying it on the forum now, I think I've grown since then[

].

Almost everytime the vibrations came in, my body would ejaculate, I think I might have had a huge blockage or just wasnt raising the energy above my genital region. This has been going on for awhile, stopping all except for the exception of a few projections but every other one stopped before it even began because of this problem. But I am confident that this is almost over, i am definately feeling the changes, and the otherday the energy got too strong for me to bear in my neck, so I think I'm on my way, I've just got to keep doing energy work until I am completely problem free, and then I can continue with out of body exploration. [

]

Oliver

Terry B · May 23, 2003, 06:38:37

You could try Kegel exercise (also called the deer exercise by the taoist).

Some people vouch for it.[

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Voltarrens · May 23, 2003, 08:26:06

Sounds like the blockage has moved to where you're throat chakra resides. What your doing now with talking is good for loosening this up, talking about things that bother you on a deep level helps to relieve this and let the energy flow rather than getting caught. There should be a change over the next few days as the sun is moving into Gemini and out of Taurus (yes I'm into astrology), which will help with vocalization(Gemini) and getting out of that stuck feeling(Taurus)

About reality. . . I think we all have our own seperate realities, and you're right we do have to prove it to ourselves more than anyone else that it is ours. Vivid, depends on how vivid it all is[

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Oliver · May 24, 2003, 18:10:45

Hi,

I would like to take back what I said about the most important thing Robert did was encourage me, he's done a lot more then that, yes of course having a problem like this can be quite disheartening, so his responses were encouraging, but he has also made me aware of the potential dangers I may be facing. I didnt want to sound like I wan't appreciative.

For now I am to stop raising energy into primary chakras, and concentrate on the secondary system because my primary chakras are very sensitive and Robert said my problem should clear quicker if I turned to focus on just the secondary system. I dont want to risk a premature kundalini rising, because I might not survive it...

Oliver

Oliver · May 24, 2003, 18:12:54

Terry,

What is kegel excercise?

Terry B · May 24, 2003, 23:07:04

It is an exercise founded by Dr. Kegel that involve repeatedly contracting the muscles around your pubic bone and prostate (the pc muscle). The purpose is to keep the muscles healthy which in turn will improve your sexual stamina. Benefits inslude healthier prostate , greater bladder control, and stopping wet dream.

The best way to learn how to do kegels is to try to stop peeing in mid stream by clamping down on the muscles in your pubic area. however, you do not do it while peeing.

This thing is not entirely new but has been practised by the taoist for centuries. You can check some book on Taoist practice. It is supposed to make it easy to channel energy from the sexual center to upper cnter, at least in the beginning stage.

http://www.healingtaousa.com would be a good start.

also,

http://www.askmen.com/love/love_tip_60/67_love_tip.html
http://www.diaperpin.com/diaper_info/article_kegal.asp
http://www.mwsexual.com/readingroom/articles/kegel-exercises.htm
http://www.bringhealth.com/kegel_exercise.html
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/5571/malesexuality.html

In hatha yoga there is some similar exercise (such as asvini mudra) and bandhas (mula bandha) or lock while holding some posture/doing breathing exercise.

It should be good for projection too as it can help with your problem. [

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beav31is · May 31, 2003, 12:34:05

You can prove its real. Find something in the room to read (you dont know what it says). Read it OOB then get up and compare. I did this and it worked.

kampersdream · June 01, 2003, 11:02:45

for me it doesnt really matter if its real or if its all in my mind. either way it is a very enriching experiance. i've shared some of my experiances with a couple of friends, and they at first thought i was crazy, but after awhile they realized i was serious and wanted to know more. the reality queston came up and i told them whether or not all this was 'real' was a question they would have to answer for themselves. its almost like discussing religion, one mans fact is another mans fiction.

beav31is · June 01, 2003, 11:18:44

Sounds like "I cant have it so I wont want it" to me. It will be much more fun if/when you KNOW its real. Faith slows you down a lot.

Oliver · May 20, 2003, 02:57:28

Hi Everyone,

About a week ago, I told one of my friends that I could leave my body and about energy work. I told her about a few of my experiences and I described what it felt like, how strong the vibrations or energy are prior to seperation, etc.

Last night I had a discusison with her about it, and she asked me, how do I know that it is real? I replied, that I have experienced it, so I know that it is real, my consciousness is the just the same out of body as it is in waking life.

I was okay going by experience, not taking anything as the real truth, unless I had experienced it first hand. She asked me how sure I was that it was real, and was suprised how I didnt question it, she came up with all these possibilities for me creating my experience from my mind. For example, I had read journeys out of the body before I started leaving my body, and in it Robert Monroe talked about the vibrations, so she asked "isnt it possible that my subconscious created my experience out of what i had read, that the vibrations I felt happened because I was expecting them to happen?.. etc" I know that my subconscious isnt creating it, for one, its too real, for anyone who has left their body and experienced the vibrations, it feels like a very physical sensation, and The physical body cant be moved they are SO strong.

Anyway, the point I am getting to is, How do we know anything is real?
What is real? How can we know anything for sure? So we experienced something, so what? Does that tell us anything more than the fact that we experienced it? Right now you are sitting at a computer reading, what does that prove? Does that prove anything? How do we know that earth is real? Can we ever really know anything?

Oliver

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Is it possible to know?