Is it possible to astral awaken away from the physical body?

[Astral316]

Those who cannot differentiate between an LD and an OBE need to practice more and achieve an OBE instead of compromising on calling an OBE as a dream. Sorry no offense, just a friendly push.

It's not a matter of compromising, it's a matter of looking at one's own experiences and determining they can't be fit into two neat little boxes. I've experienced plenty of classic OBEs and other non-physical experiences to varying degrees of awareness and this LD/OBE differentiation doesn't resonate with me. So you're saying I need to practice more until it does? Ha!

[Rudolph]

It's not a matter of compromising, it's a matter of looking at one's own experiences and determining they can't be fit into two neat little boxes.

Perhaps the better solution would then be to create more boxes.

To just give up and glom it all into one amorphous batter is half baked and un-digestible, imo.

[Astral316]

Perhaps the better solution would then be to create more boxes.

To just give up and glom it all into one amorphous batter is half baked and un-digestible, imo.

I have all the boxes I need, tbh... etheric, astral and beyond for visual environment, dream or OBE (for level of awareness only), lucid or not lucid, etc. That's all I've needed up to this point... that and the power of description. If you have a grasp on the English language it's not too dificult to convey most non-physical experiences without using such words as OBE, astral, dream, projection, etc.

[Psan]

I've experienced plenty of classic OBEs and other non-physical experiences to varying degrees of awareness and this LD/OBE differentiation doesn't resonate with me. So you're saying I need to practice more until it does? Ha!

You are probably missing the point. One needs to practice more not to become an expert in putting things into boxes and label them, but to experience higher and higher states and to understand why the states are labeled like that.

The newbies must be told that there are higher states than what is commonly called an LD, even if you have perceived it as a continuum and tend to classify all of the range as an LD or whatever. Someone (eg a mystic) may wish to call his entire range of experiences from ordinary dreams to enlightenment as 'non-physical states' but it is going to be utterly confusing for a newbie while the advanced crowd will get it.

Now it can not be disputed that there are distinct qualities to these altered states depending on the level of awareness. This is not just an opinion, this is fairly established. It is ok to label them and agree on the names. It helps the exploration. For a scientific person, classification is a must to understand and communicate. Monroe is a good example.

Most of the people on this forum have heard of only two - LD and AP. An informed Westerner has probably heard of (and experienced) 10-12 such states. A master Yogi can count hundred or so. You can see how the ability to box things finely is a measure of progress.

There can be many reasons why someone fails to see why these things are labeled so and so. One reason might be that he is unable to hold on to a specific awareness level and bobs up and down at a dizzying speed. This happens e.g when you do drugs. So its all "one" for such person. If one does practice hard and holds on to the states and studies them deeply, he will understand why masters tend to draw lines. That was my intention of asking people to practice more.

[ElectromagneticMan]

I *HIGHLY* suggest that you learn to shift your consciousness on your own and become proficient with it before you turn to chemicals to do the transition for you.
You'll and your experiences will be much better for it.

yeah of course, i wouldn't try astral projection or start to learn it by using dmt. i smoke weed and dont try it with it, although weed is amazing for lucid dreaming! just saying id like to try a dmt trip, but not focusing on AP, maybe ill use another form of body which the universe has never known about