Sam Parnia on the Aware study

[catmeow]

I spotted this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-24509/Near-death-patients-afterlife.html

[Projector4life]

This is the best near-death/obe study I have ever read.

[catmeow]

It's actually a large multi centre study and will be reporting in much greater detail I would hope quite soon. They placed cards on a shelf above the patients, the cards being visible only if the patient was floating near the ceiling. Parnia was hoping to have at least a few positive card IDs, but I don't think they had any positive IDs. This isn't too surprising with the small numbers involved (4 NDEs), but is disappointing.

Never the less, I believe all the patients were monitored so it could be established that brain "death" was present. Patients were interviewed, and their narratives compared with what actually happened in the theatre (I believe) . A prime objective, with the monitoring and the interviews is to establish whether the patient was conscious and lucid at the time of brain death. The Mail's article implies that this might have been established. We have to wait for the full report (and the book!).

[desert-rat]

Sam Parnia has been discussed hear before .  I thought for his study he should put a Barbie, g.i. Joe doll , or gumby , in a box on a high shelf in the operating room , instead of a card . Its not some thing normaly in an operating room , and easy to remember .

[catmeow]

This article actually was  published in 2001. However, the Aware study, which I thought it referred to, is due to report this month. When I first found the article it seemed to have a recent date on it but I managed to research the article and get it's real date. We have been waiting years for the Aware study results. Hope they report soon.

[catmeow]

Sam Parnia has been discussed hear before .  I thought for his study he should put a Barbie, g.i. Joe doll , or gumby , in a box on a high shelf in the operating room , instead of a card . Its not some thing normaly in an operating room , and easy to remember .

You're quite correct, the chances of someone floating above his body noticing something as ordinary as a card, during such an extraordinary experience, is slim.

[Ofen]

http://www.horizonresearch.org/main_page.php?cat_id=279

"At this time, they anticipate being able to release the preliminary results obtained during the first five years of the study in September or October 2013 to mark the fifth anniversary of the launch of the study."

Where are the results?? I guess they have nothing really special. However they should have been released these results already..

[catmeow]

Yeah, I'm still waiting too... it's annoying.

[Ofen]

I have many years experience in OBEs and did a lot of experiments in terms of verification. First I thought it must be real, because it looks so real. But everyone who do this for a longer time comes to the result: its all in your mind.

There are many crazy stories around the world about obe, near death experiences. Someone will say, why should all these people lie?
But you must realize,  there are also many storys about ufos, nessie, big food and so on. People can lie on themselve. And sometimes, they lie for money and a little bit attention. So go to bed, start an obe and make your own experience and do not read so much stories.


I hope this study will be serious and give us the results so that esoteric people can change their perception about obe s. I love this phenomenon, but reading all this bovine excrement from some esoteric people on the internet disturbes me.

[desert-rat]

To Ofen , I think you meant big foot , but big food is ok too.  On big foot I have this idea that he shape shifting humans  playing big foot . That is why you never find and bodies , or bones . 
http://www.bfro.net/
http://www.goldencorral.com/locator/
http://www.panchos.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin-walker

[PlasmaAstralProjection]

The big foot thing seems kind of mysterious. But there was a recent study that came out with DNA humanoid type creature that paraphrased proposed some type of big foot as it's origin. And it was published in a mainstream journal. So it was well done. I think this is some good indication that we need to look more. But not necessarily that there are big foots around out there.

[desert-rat]

Not intending to derail a Sam Parnia thread . On big foot , he/she is worthy of a thread   of his/her own . I have started a few on other forums . One idea of mine is that there are a few humans that know how to shape shift in to a big foot .  Kind of like the cival war re in actors . For a few days they play the role of a big foot . Then go back to a human . Just an idea of mine , who knows .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shape_shifting

[Astralzombie]

I have many years experience in OBEs and did a lot of experiments in terms of verification. First I thought it must be real, because it looks so real. But everyone who do this for a longer time comes to the result: its all in your mind.

There are many crazy stories around the world about obe, near death experiences. Someone will say, why should all these people lie?
But you must realize,  there are also many storys about ufos, nessie, big food and so on. People can lie on themselve. And sometimes, they lie for money and a little bit attention. So go to bed, start an obe and make your own experience and do not read so much stories.


I hope this study will be serious and give us the results so that esoteric people can change their perception about obe s. I love this phenomenon, but reading all this bovine excrement from some esoteric people on the internet disturbes me.

I guess it's fair to say that I disagree with most of what you said.

Much of the phenomenon can be explained and attributed to the physical body yet there is much that can't. You seem to think that what can't be physically explained must be a lie (I assume because you haven't had the same experience and if you did, you were able to rationalize it away).

My introduction to this phenomenon was spontaneous and  not welcomed. For years I was able to rationalize much of it away but just as soon as I did, another experience would occur that was not easily explained (not with my old frame of mind anyhow).

In the end, it only matters to the individual and no one else.

[desert-rat]

To ofen , you might want to watch some of the N.D.E. videos on you tube . In Robert Monroe's first book he wrote about visiting people he knew while out of body , and asking them later if they were doing what he saw them doing . There is a story of a British m.p. that appeared before Parlament to cast his vote in his astral body even tho. his phy. body was sick in bed from the late 1800s or early 1900s .  A lady had an N.D.E. where she saw a pair of shews , a few days a janitor found them  .  You can try telling these people that  it is all in there head .

[Lionheart]

 Dr. Albert Taylor was on Art Bell's new show Dark Matters on Nov 2/2013. He was talking about his earlier APs that started when he was young boy and how later on his in his life he found ways to verify them as "real" to himself. Dr. Albert Taylor is a acclaimed Scientist who works for NASA and various other organizations/agencies. He talked about NDE's and his current research with them as well. I really enjoyed the first part of this interview. At first he had a lot of doubt lot of doubt in what he was doing, so he decided to do his own experimenting with the phenomenon and because of his position in Science, he was very reluctant in saying anything to anyone about this, especially his colleagues .

In the second part of the interview he spoke about his research into the Paranormal and Ghosts as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6Xl9a7qMAY

[Ofen]

@ desert As I already said, these are all just stories. I cannot understand you, you can experience your own OBE one hundred of times and proof to yourselve if its real.

I guess you never had experienced such incredible stories like these people in the magazins or monroe. Why you believe these people? They could write these experiences just for money! If an autor writes a book or an article about his experiences in OBE where he writes, that nothing is magical about obes, that all is just in your mind like a dream and that is his opinion, nobody would read this.

And why are so many people so naive, thinking that if someone who experienced an OBE or near dead experience, that this person must be a good person who could never lie?

[Lionheart]

@ desert As I already said, these are all just stories. I cannot understand you, you can experience your own OBE one hundred of times and proof to yourselve if its real.

I guess you never had experienced such incredible stories like these people in the magazins or monroe. Why you believe these people? They could write these experiences just for money! If an autor writes a book or an article about his experiences in OBE where he writes, that nothing is magical about obes, that all is just in your mind like a dream and that is his opinion, nobody would read this.

And why are so many people so naive, thinking that if someone who experienced an OBE or near dead experience, that this person must be a good person who could never lie?

I guess in the end, the only proof that will be good enough for you is the proof you can find yourself! 

This is true for all of us! 

[Volgerle]

And why are so many people so naive, thinking that if someone who experienced an OBE or near dead experience, that this person must be a good person who could never lie?

calling them liars is the last resort for many skeptics when all their arguments fail (which they mostly do), it is highly illogical too...

btw, if you're interested in validations check this link out and read it thoroughly, of course, they all might just be liars.  

http://da-lai.lima-city.de/OBE/index.html

Seriously, I've had my own validation(s) of different kinds, some more direct, some more indirect, and so had many here. I / we don't lie!  

Moreover, lots of validations you can gather from literature on Remote Viewing and NDE literature too. None of them is lying either, how dare we judge?

And btw: nobody says it's a piece of cake, it is not easy to prove, because this physical reality is the default mode not easy to overcome for our consciousness, getting validations while acting from the viewpoint of another "plane" (e.g. "Astral") in another state of consciousness but gathering data for this same physical reality is a feat not easy to master (but it IS possible)

Sorry, but "liars" ... that's the most ridiculous thing I've read here so far.  

[Ofen]

What I want to say is, that most of them are lying to themselves.

I had also some stories where some of you would think that this is a real evidence. For example I started an obe where I was flying to my brothers house (I live in another town). There I went to the fridge because I wanted to eat something. In the upper shelfs there were a lot of bottles of beer.
Normally there is no beer in the fridge, because my brother usually dont put them into the fridge. But there was something I was more surprised: in the bottom shelf there was a single bottle of coke. I was really wondering why there is a coke there. Because my brother don't drink coke. I drinked the coke, taste was good

After 2 month of this experience I visited him. And as I opened the fridge, there was this coke and I remembered sawing this coke in my OBE. Apparently he changed his drinking behaviour. He buy almost every day a coke and put them into the bottom shelft of the fridge.

So this could be a good story for evidence, BUT I dont want to lie to myselve. I remembered hardly when I saw my brother before this OBE experience and could it possible that he drunk coke before and I also saw it? And yes I remembered there was one time where he buyed a coke before my OBE experience.
Yeah, do not underestimate your mind! You can forget things and see them in your OBE again and there it could be new to you but you saw it already.

So whats your story?

[Szaxx]

There's so much on the net written by those who have little or no experience. They read books and repeat the words without ever experiencing it for themselves. That makes lots of stories that are half truths.
@ ofen, Some of us on this site have real experiences that come true. There's a time delay before the event so nothing is a reminder of anything that already exists. Your coke experience is far too common to be used. Millions of people drink coke so forget it. You've got to look at something far bigger and it must be a single happening. This is not inside your head at all or some misguided imagination. Close your physical eyes and see whats real.

[desert-rat]

Ofen you sound a bit like James Randi in the you tube video that I am posting a link to . In another you tube video a guy is stating there will be a time when Randi is a ghost and he is still saying that there are no ghosts .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NwKkbd2e-c

[Ofen]

Yeah there should be some people with their OWN true experience. But where are they? Most of the people only tell stories of other peoples who write about other peoples who experienced something unusual. And then there are so many peoples who read  esoteric books about OBE, that their experience about OBE is distorted and they believe in everything ( ghosts, angels, dead people flying around). They should not follow these ridiculous theories, this does not help to clearly understood this phenomenon.

There are too much theories out there, the best explanation is still that it is all in your mind. Because your mind has the power to create these worlds. If you can get informations through obe then in evolution these people would survive at the best and everyone would do an obe. But actually only some people do this and they have no advantages to those who dont because its all imagination and just for fun.

I hope the aware results bring some esoteric people back to reality.

ps: I am not Randi, I am Ofen

[desert-rat]

I only stated that you sound like James Randi . I have yet to a.p. myself , but I have had some dreams that I am sure were from being out of body . I willed my self to give my phone # to any one that I might meet while out of body during sleep . This is a post I made on it ,on another forum .
http://halfway.oceanfalls.org/index.php?topic=2656.0
I made refference to Robert Monroe in some of my posts but I dont know if ever one hear know who he was , he left the phy. for the astral in 95.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Monroe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4_-PDqQ9bM

[desert-rat]

If any one hear does not know who Sam Parnia is ,I will post the wiki. This thread started out on his research . There is more info on the net that is easy to find .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Parnia

[CFTraveler]

But everyone who do this for a longer time comes to the result: its all in your mind.

Not everyone.  This is the kind of sweeping statement that always makes me cringe.
"Always".  Was on purpose.