Spiritual Patronage and Angelic Sponsorship

[Zante]

All I'm saying is that communicating with you is an extremely draining experience. That is why I have no desire to speak to you in the same way you speak with me. Let me be honest about my feelings Leo. I hate playing the psychologist because in my endeavor to understand you it means I have to keep comparing my thoughts with your own. Because I have to keep doing this my mind becomes clouded with all sorts of doubts and a conflict erupts. Suddenly I am actually affected by what it is you are saying. You are forcing me to see myself as the worthless maggot you might perceive me as being. It does no good for my self-esteem Leo, it hurts like hell. My troubled past doesn't help with this process and the fact that I am highly impressionable means I feel as though I'm in a mental war zone whenever you speak to me directly.

I have to keep telling myself that your intent is to be helpful but that you are not yet aware of how offensive you are in your form of expression. Damnit Leo, you're better than this. I don't understand why with you it's always...

"make them feel threatened or it's me who will be on the losing side"

Why do I have to compare myself to what you perceive as being the lowest end of the spectrum in order to understand what it is you are saying?

[Novice]

Well, being an inarticulate school boy is hardly much of an argument. 

Leo-
Many of your remarks in this post, the above being the most recent, are condescending and inappropriate.

You are obviously quite dedicated and passionate about your religion and no one who has responded to this post has ridiculed it in any way. However, you have become rather defensive at the fact that others do not seem to agree with your thoughts or conclusions on this topic. And seem to think that those who do not agree with you are not worthy of being heard, so to speak.

This is a forum open to people from all over the world. Each has the right to express their own thoughts on topics posted here, whether they agree or not with the original poster.

Zante raised several interesting questions to your original post and has continued to respond politely to your rather terse responses to him. One of the points he raise, which I personally feel is quite valid is your interpretion of good vs evil. I believe Zante's views on these definations are closer to buddhist philosophy, which essentially states that there is no good or evil, there is only what we do. I believe he is posing this contradictory defnition to see what your thoughts are on this concept. Although I could be wrong, I'm certainly not speaking for Zante. I am, however, simply trying illustrate that no "inarticulate schoolboy" has yet responded to this thread.

I have read tvos' posts regarding his experiences with what he perceives to be angels. I completely believe everything he has experienced. However I do not necessarily agree with all of the conclusions you draw based on his experiences. Tvos has spent years practicing and researching this type of stuff. However, I believe that what he experiences he labels based on his beliefs (a strong christian background). I have never asked him this, it is simply something I've gathered from reading his posts.

Please keep in mind that every experience is purely subjective and based on the perceptions and awareness level of the individual at the time of the experience. To make broad, authoritative claims that tvos experiences these angelic meetings because he is 'holier' than others here and that others do not experience these things because they are possessed or evil or prone to evil or however you phrase it is completely inappropriate and, in my own opinion, flat out wrong.

To reiterate, every user on this forum, regardless of their religious or non-religious affliliation has the right to post and respond to posts with their own views and not have those views ridiculed by someone who responds to posts proporting 'ultimate authority'. Please keep this in mind as you read and respond to posts going forward.

[catmeow]

Good is as Good does.  Likewise, Evil can be seen in its effects.  Now, you can't confuse, as you have, Evil with Moral Responsibility.

Well, erm, actually no I haven't confused anything.  Please do not presume to tell me what you think I have done, while expressing your opinion as fact.  I haven't confused evil, with moral responsibility at all, I'm quite clear on that.  However, I think that perhaps you have.  But in general, your writing style is one of presenting personal opinion as fact.  If you do this too much, which I believe you have, you will irritate people so much that they stop listening (to you).  I hope you take this on board, because I think you make some interesting points.  But please remember that your opinions are precisely that, just opinions, not facts.

Your point about the Transformative and Beneficial Influence of Angels on 'morally confused' people.  Yes, it would be nice to think so.  But I have heard so many dreams from these 'morally confused' people, and they simply were not giving their Angels much of the benefit of their doubts.   The Angels seem too vague in their messages and are ignored.  The Angels are not convenient to their selfish lifestyles and so they are dismissed as bubbles rising up from a meaningless and arbitrary Subconscious Mind.  Even idiots are well studied in Materialism.

You seem to have missed the point I was trying to make?  I was talking specifically about NDEs - very real experiences and not dreams.  In studies of Near-Death Experiences, individuals often meet "angelic" or higher beings who show them the consequences of their life actions, and the result is often completely transformative.  This experience is given to selfish people as often as it is to selfless.  It certainly isn't denied to anybody, based on their moral grade.  This fact, doesn't seem to gel with your notion that spiritual sponsorship is granted only to the morally worthy.  Perhaps the confusion between us lies in the use of the word "sponsorship".  In Tvos' original post I believe he was talking about spritual "experience" rather than "sponsorship".  The evidence is that spiritual experiences (as opposed to "sponsorship") and meetings with higher beings are given freely to everyone.