The change between lucid dream and and OBE.

[Bellend_1010]

So for those who project from lucid dreams pls lets talk about the transaction in consciousness from once you are in the dream then the transaction into the astral. Many say lucid dreaming IS astral projection but I think many who know how to OBE properly would say that OBE's are way more intense and real than a lucid dream and while lucid dreams have some degree of clarity you are still not in control like an OBE which I would have to conclude based on my research on seeing the general differences between standard lucid dreams and an OBE.

So for all those lucid dreamers .....what does the transaction feel like? do you suddenly just become a whole lot more clearer from your dream consciousness? pls tell.

[Xanth]

It's like... going from being half awake, to being completely awake.

It's like waking up in the morning and you're all groggy and slow... then after having a hot shower, or that first cup of coffee (right Noy?  ) you wake right up!

You said it yourself really... a lucid dream only differs from an astral projection in that 'degree of clarity'.  Not clarity of "visually seeing", but the clarity of your consciousness. 

[NoY]

mmmmmmmmmm Coffee 


:NoY:

[djed]

Hi Bell

So for all those lucid dreamers .....what does the transaction feel like? do you suddenly just become a whole lot more clearer from your dream consciousness? pls tell.

Most times my lucid dreams are incredibly clear, but I seem to be only interested in flying around.
Conversely, when in oobe I can be poor in clarity, but in a more serious mode and want to explore and relate to people. In the etheric phase I find myself sometimes crawling along the ground in semi darkness. (As is reported by other people) I remember Don de Gracia writing about sub-planes that you may find yourself in.
I have only exited from a nondream state or normal dream, never from a lucid dream. When I do I am in the etheric plane first, not clear, but always more exciting to exit oobe. By the way you are not more in control in oobe as sometimes you are 'taken along by 'the wind' or redirectes instantly to 'somewhere else'  Going from etheric/oobe to astral is always clearer for me.

[krobin1533]

I honestly have more clarity and control lucid dreaming. But, I have only had 2 maybe 3 obe's and tons of lucid dreams. Maybe if I had more experience in astral projection that would be different 

[Jilt]

This is a hotly contested subject but after having hundreds of OOBEs and wake-induced lucid dreams, my opinion is that they are the same although you feel separation from the body when you have an OOBE and sometimes see your or a room where with WILDs you skip this step. (Perhaps with an OOBE your consciousness is making sense of you thinking you just lifted out of your body by creating a room although in the last few years I've skipped seeing a room at all and just start flying in the 3D black limbo world after lift-off).

Otherwise they are very similar. In both I fly, use windows as portals to other levels/scenes, and through concentration and raising my vibration stay as lucid as I can for as long as I can to heighten my experience/levels.

[Greytraveller]

Hallo Bellend
Here is my distinction between an OBE and a lucid dream (LD).
In an OBE the experience takes place outside of the physical body and the locations and people are objective, meaning that they are not created by the mind of the person experiencing the OBE.
In a LD the experience happens Inside the physical body and the locations and the characters ARE creations of the mind of the dreamer.
So, anyone who is unsure whether they are in an OBE or a LD should attempt to create people (= dream characters) and change their location. If they CAN do this then it IS a lucid dream. If they CANNOT do this then it is an OBE.
Hope that this clears up the confusion.

Regards 
Grey

[Under_the_Midnight_Sun]

Hi everyone,
Obviously there is a discrepancy between the LD and OBE state. From my experiences I've found that the two are one in the same. When I was just starting out projecting I used to be disappointed when i just spontaneously found myself in a "dream state". From all the books and information I had read a true OBE can only take place after immediately exiting the body. After years of observation-- there are no differences between the two. All dreams take place on the metaphysical realm. The environment we find ourselves in is extremely subjective. On planes above the RTZ our wishes, thoughts, and nightmares come true. We create our own reality. If we aren't conscious of the experience taking place our subconscious thoughts overwhelm us. We find ourselves with dream characters created by our deep imaginative capabilities. These capabilities are the same in an OBE or LD. We may manifest whatever we wish. Some characters who present themselves as familiar faces are simply thoughtforms produced by the subconscious.

[Lexy]

Grey, so you think phasing is lucid dreaming?

What about when you go to the void?

[Summerlander]

Phasing is a method that gets you to the same place as OOBEs. The dark void can be accessed using both methods. I've been there so many times. It's like a bridge or nexus that leads to many many worlds.

[Astral316]

Hi everyone,
Obviously there is a discrepancy between the LD and OBE state. From my experiences I've found that the two are one in the same. When I was just starting out projecting I used to be disappointed when i just spontaneously found myself in a "dream state". From all the books and information I had read a true OBE can only take place after immediately exiting the body. After years of observation-- there are no differences between the two. All dreams take place on the metaphysical realm. The environment we find ourselves in is extremely subjective. On planes above the RTZ our wishes, thoughts, and nightmares come true. We create our own reality. If we aren't conscious of the experience taking place our subconscious thoughts overwhelm us. We find ourselves with dream characters created by our deep imaginative capabilities. These capabilities are the same in an OBE or LD. We may manifest whatever we wish. Some characters who present themselves as familiar faces are simply thoughtforms produced by the subconscious.

I agree... the "differences" are more or less arbitrary.

The transfer from a dream to lucidity (which is an OBE *at that point*) is pretty much exactly what Xanth described.

[Summerlander]

Hi everyone,
Obviously there is a discrepancy between the LD and OBE state. From my experiences I've found that the two are one in the same. When I was just starting out projecting I used to be disappointed when i just spontaneously found myself in a "dream state". From all the books and information I had read a true OBE can only take place after immediately exiting the body. After years of observation-- there are no differences between the two. All dreams take place on the metaphysical realm. The environment we find ourselves in is extremely subjective. On planes above the RTZ our wishes, thoughts, and nightmares come true. We create our own reality. If we aren't conscious of the experience taking place our subconscious thoughts overwhelm us. We find ourselves with dream characters created by our deep imaginative capabilities. These capabilities are the same in an OBE or LD. We may manifest whatever we wish. Some characters who present themselves as familiar faces are simply thoughtforms produced by the subconscious.

I agree too. In fact I had a bit of a debate about this with someone on Spiritual Forums. Someone extremely biased by what he's read about Astral Projection. It's all hooey really. This was my reply to that person:

"LOL! This made me laugh. My friend, just because you've read loads of books about UFOs doesn't mean you've seen one. Likewise with the OOBE phenomenon. The fact that it might be all in the brain IS still a possibility.

I have been projecting non-stop for three years now and I have found that OOBEs actually do have a lot in common with lucid dreaming and they are probably the same thing. What they are exactly is what's elusive. From MY experience, OOBEs and lucid dreams are terms we made up. They are different ways of entering the same realm: the metaphysical in all its glory.

In OOBEs, you usually separate into inaccurate replicas of the physical world (hence the burlesque versions of your bedroom) which might as well be manifested from expectation from your unconscious mind. In lucid dreams, you usually skip this "expectation" as you find yourself in different scenarios straight away rather than 'travelling' there.

They are both the same realm. Even space or distance there are a thought which, on that level, emulates actuality. Space there is not actual...it is illusory. Even your sense of movement, so, in essence, you are not really separating from anything.

Remember that the brain receives data from the external world and then interprets it its own way. Each brain area is associated with different modalities of perception, like balance, spatiality, orientation, memory etc. etc.

So, in the waking state, while it translates the objective data it receives...in the "OOBE-state" (and dream states) the brain is free to play with the 'playdoh' so to speak and interpret however it wants the memory of the data it has been receiving from the waking state. It may even make it more fanciful than the interpretation of reality that it's so used to (hence the bright colours, the crisp quality and the apparent hyper-reality of the metaphysical world). Hence why the so-called "astral plane" can be so similar to physical reality and why anything can manifest from belief there.

Waking state is like going to school where you have to pay attention to the teacher. Then you go home and do your homework.

"Astral Projection" is when you are free to unwind, play games, be creative and use your imagination free of constraints.

Do yourself a favour and stop reading books filled with astral fantasy interpretations and actually experience that state of consciousness from a fresh perspective, free of someone else's interpretations."

[Pauli2]

Do yourself a favour and stop reading books ...

Yes, I see your smiley.

But who are you to tell others what to do?

[Summerlander]

I don't have to be anyone, Pauli2. I am simply a person who has experienced OOBEs and lucid dreams for some time now and the only book about OOBEs that I've completed was Robert Monroe's Journeys Out of the Body. He is very honest in his ignorance in his first book and his theories are interesting. But it remains just that...theories.

I am not forcing the person from Spiritual Forums to do anything. I am merely advising him to "do himself a favour". Encouraging people to explore the OOBE-state from a fresh perspective in order to draw up a personal conclusion is just about the best advice you can give in my opinion.

[Pauli2]

...was Robert Monroe's Journeys Out of the Body. He is very honest in his ignorance in his first book...

What makes you think Monroe was ignorant?

[Xanth]

This outta be fun to watch...

[Summerlander]

What makes you think Monroe was ignorant?

Not ignorant in a negative way. Ignorant in the fact that in the first few pages of the book he doesn't know what is happening to him and he thinks he's got a brain tumour. This is very honest of him and I like his pragmatic approach. As he explores the OOBE-state he starts to express his thoughts on what is going on which is interesting and again he does not hold his views as the absolute truth.

In contrast, there are those who experience this and claim to know for sure in their books that they have visited astral planes, mental planes and so forth. Those who hold the view of spirits, demons, angels, afterlife realms as the absolute truth without a thought for any other explanations.

[Pauli2]

Summerlander, you've got valid points.

Also, his theories are backed up by experiences.

[Summerlander]

Also, his theories are backed up by experiences.

Of course. And that's the way it should be.

[djed]

Had a Lucid dream last night that was different for me in that I wasn't in the countryside but in a
multi-storied building and I recognized one of my 'triggers'- getting lost in a building. I said 'Ahh I'm dreaming'. I was on the ground floor courtyard and I flew up slowly in a spiral looking at all the people in restaurants and offices. Some notice me and are laughing some are astounded .
@Gray

In a LD the experience happens Inside the physical body and the locations and the characters ARE creations of the mind of the dreamer.

I made all those characters for myself, I'm such an entertainer, such an exhibitionist! Lol
Cheers djed

[Tee1234]

Hallo Bellend
Here is my distinction between an OBE and a lucid dream (LD).
In an OBE the experience takes place outside of the physical body and the locations and people are objective, meaning that they are not created by the mind of the person experiencing the OBE.
In a LD the experience happens Inside the physical body and the locations and the characters ARE creations of the mind of the dreamer.
So, anyone who is unsure whether they are in an OBE or a LD should attempt to create people (= dream characters) and change their location. If they CAN do this then it IS a lucid dream. If they CANNOT do this then it is an OBE.
Hope that this clears up the confusion.

Regards 
Grey

I somewhat agree with this.

I think a dream is nothing more than your mind running on auto drive and if you become lucid you can just have a little fun till u wake. Sometimes if I become lucid in a dream il usually just wake myself up on purpose. And once im awake, I wont move or open my eyes n il lay there till I get the vibes and exit my body for an obe.

To me its a totally different experience and its hard to explain to the people that never actually got to the huge vibration part and exited their body. I think you shouldnt make the assumption that its the same unless you experience this both ways.

For me there's alot of differences but another example is If im lucid dreaming I cant really control how long I have. With an obe, this is much easier controlled and can last much longer. Ive stayed out for the duration of the night with only getting shot back to my body a few times. But when I get shot back, I can be out again in seconds or minutes. My senses are not nearly comparable either.

This topic is like beating a dead horse though cause people already have their mind made up. Like me, Il never be convinced that their the same.