Hi
Firstly I haven't had a controlled concious exit yet, so what I type here is just my inexperienced opinion and if it's all wrong then maybe someone could help me right aswell.
Ok here goes:
Whith the no surface thoughts I think is mainly meant that you should not let any thoughts that is not of your projection intrude and let your mind wander off, I mean for instance I can't believe that your not thinking when your relaxation exercises or the energy raising or even the rope technique for that matter, I think you just have to be able to quiet your mind so that when you are doing your preperations for projection etc, you can focus on that activity completely without thoughts interfering like did I lock my garage and so on. It happened to me last night (surface mind thoughts) while trying to project, I was so close. I did my relaxation thinking of each muscle group as I tensed them and then released them and of each next one as I moved along to the next in my body. Then I started with a technique to get myself into trance (Elevator) preceding it by going to that sectet tree-garden (That takes a lot of focused thinking). Then i did some basic energy raising by using the spunge technique, spunging energy from my feet up through my legs up to the sub naval storage center feeling and thinking of the energy moving through my legs with each stroke. Next I was supposed to go on to do a bounce loosening but the vibrations suddenly came and it was so furious and more pronounced than ever before and i think I acted to soon by going straight to the rope technique trying to pull myself out, I could feel myself starting to loosen starting to go out, but I don't think my etheric body was properly generated yet, I should've kept to my plan of action and finished the energy raising and bounce loosening before attempting the rope technique because I could really feel parts of me being very loose but then the vibrations lessened and the next moment i was once again completely awake and have failed once again, but I think it was a good fail though. But in any case It was that interering thought that I should maybe skip the rest of my planned steps, that I think made me fail this time.
As I said this is just an inexperienced opinion make of it what you will.
Mozia
I haven´t grasped this fully either, and are most likely my biggest obstacle... when is it supposed one should silence the mind of all thoughts?? Doesn´t one need to focus ones thoughts on leaving the body to succeed(?), one can not think "I´m now gonna leave my body" and at the same time have a blank mind with no thoughts.
My BIG question is; Does the separation happen automatically if your body is asleep and your mind is empty of thoughts but awake, or does one have to think to leave the body?? Confused...
DASHOUR, ones you are "out" you can think whatever you want from what I have understood (except to loudly on your physcial body I assume), the question is during the "attempt".
Hoping many will answer this, feels very important.
Be well// Qui-Gon
- Your focus determines your reality -
First off, congrats Mozia, sounds like you're doing great!
If I could offer my humble opinion on it, it would seem to me that
these visualization techniques are based around MBA (Mobile Body
Awareness) which doesn't have as a pre-requisite any type of logical
thought of internal dialogue.
In other words, I can feel my awareness hands pretty often now
(although not well enough :( ) and can work through bounce techniques
without having to analyze or think about it too much. It seems,
for me anyway, that the awareness and the energy raising it does and
the pressure it will later put on your projected being is more than
enough.
Thanks everybody very much for your replies. I do understand that the relaxation and NEW techniques do not require a still mind. In fact, Robert does indeed say that it is not necessary to be in a trance state (thus, not necesary to have this clear surface mind) to do the energy raising or relaxation exercises.
However, in chapter 16, called "Taming the Mind" he makes it pretty clear how important this is for the trance state. The whole chapter is devoted to it. On page 210 he gives a chart showing exactly what "clear surface mind" means, using the thought of buying your cat a new collar. It seems very clear to me from this chart that he means for you to completely subdue all thoughts. He then says on page 227, in the chapter called "The Trance State":
"Entering the trance state requires three things: deep physical relaxation, a clear surface mind, and a mental technique"
Anybody else have some advice/experience?
Thanks again,
Dashour
Only thing I would have to offer is to overly-emphasize deep, deep,
deep physical relaxation. It makes a huge difference.
keep up the work guys, it is exactly what will lead you to what your looking for....
a clear surface mind refers to concentrating on the projection, not thinking about whether or not you locked the front door, what a sound was, etc. If you were not thinking at all how could you do a projection sequence? If thoughts pop in, it is more important to notice and bring yourself back to your sequence than anything else. Do not scold yourself, it accomplishes nothing. Just notice it and continue with the meditation. Just RELAX, and do what feels right for you. Don't think about doing the projection, let it happen. hope this babbling has helped!
Jet
Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler. "
- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
12
dashour, actually I disagree a bit with Robert when saying; "Entering the trance state requires three things: deep physical relaxation, a clear surface mind, and a mental technique"
The first two I agree to of course, but the third, a mental technique needed to enter the trance state, that I think isn´t absolutely necessary. I´ve reached the various degrees of trance without the application of for example a falling technique.
That´s only my opinion.
Take care// Qui-Gon
- Your focus determines your reality -
In the book, it is made clear that "stopping the internal dialog" is a prerequisite to success. I can easily understand that, and I am definitely able to completely stop all the chatter in my mind for short periods, but not for extended periods of time. I have always thought that my problem is that I am not doing this "mind stilling" perfectly enough.
HOWEVER: From everything else I read, it seems that those who are successful with an OBE are doing anything but keeping a "still surface mind". Talking to people in the astral plane, shouting "geronimo" to go through an astral doorway, thinking about where they are and where to go next, etc. How does that jive with the "no thinking?" In some parts of the book, Robert makes it clear how very important this non-thinking meditative state is, but then in other parts, he describes what he was thinking as he was leaving, or already out. This is very confusing to me. How can you maintain this clear mind, but then still have all the thoughts that everybody is describing that they have, during their OBE?
When exactly is this "clear surface mind" necessary, and when is it not? Do you need to have no thoughts whatsoever when you are in the trance and when you are leaving the body, but then, once out, you can start "thinking" again? Or, am I making this more important than it needs to be and in fact you really do not have to have a perfectly clear surface mind at all, or?
Please help, somebody.
Many heart felt thanks to anybody who responds.
Dashour