"Threatening" Territory during OBE

[Jilt]

As background, after years of meditating I spontaneously started having lucid dreams and OBEs about 10 years ago and now nearly every morning. I've read most of the books on the subject and use the 'rope climbing' technique which is the most effective and quickest for me.

Early this morning during my first OBE I entered my usual black space 'staging area' where I felt a rush of air and forward momentum. I came to a  large movie screen that unfolded and an on-screen man started firing a gun at me with big balls of light coming out. The man was 2-D but the balls of light were 3D and came towards me. I decided not to be afraid and held out my hand to block the light balls and woke up. This was similar to an unusual OBE a few days ago when I asked to go to my Akashic records and I encountered a detailed cartoon figure that blocked my progress and blew up. I woke up, had another OBE and ran into the very same character which also blew up as if I was in a computer game and the same program looped.

After this morning's movie screen OBE, I had another and decided to chant 'Om'. Singing or chanting really elevates my flying/experience and this time others joined in and then a full musical accompaniment. Lovely. I ended up in a garden setting with a classical Greek-like monument and I said to myself that this seemed familiar and I wondered if it was an astral plane construction and a soft English woman's voice say 'yes'. I asked who she was and she said 'Rebullous' and she was my guide. I asked for how long and she said 'from the beginning'. Then a woman appeared who I assumed was her and said I was getting into dangerous territory and I needed to avoid the Queen and at that moment another woman appeared and grabbed my left wrist and started to cut it. That freaked me out so I decided to wake up rather than fight back and when fully awake I saw an angry ghost head above the bed for a few seconds and asked her to leave and she dissolved. This gave me serious pause because not only did the dream seem more threatening than usual but as sometimes happens when I have a scary dream that same character in a holographic ghostly form is in my room when I awake making me think it's not just my dream imagination but a thought form/being.

But that didn't stop me from inducing another OBE and I found myself in another outdoor classical setting and a woman immediately introduces herself as Anna, my guide (the name Anna has come up as my guide before). I get a good vibe from her and she said I've been getting into dangerous territory lately with my OBEs and that it's safe once I get to "Zion" where I am now. She then walks me to a round temple and seats me in a chair and said they are going to teach me how to have safer OBEs. Unfortunately I then wake up with a start.

What to make of all this? After having fairly typical flying OBEs to cities or among clouds or those that morph into regular dreams, these are hyper-vivid and longer and seem to be warnings or blocking my travels. Are these just another barrier our unconscious throws up like the clanking sounds or threatening voices I used to have when I first starting having OBEs? I think there's really nothing to fear so I'm going to keep exploring these new realms and do my best to stay in a meditative/higher vibrational state while doing so. Any advice or similar experiences would be most welcome.

Jill

[Pauli2]

Send them PUL.
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_consciousness/pul_pure_unconditional_love_retrievals-t33529.0.html

[Jilt]

Yes, the unconditional love technique usually transforms things right away.

After just reading this, I think I was in Frank's F3 zone and it was more real/vivid than my usual F2 and that's what freaked me out a bit. BTW, I concur with Frank's findings/experiences although I haven't made it to F4 as far as I know.

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_permanent_astral_topics/the_frank_kepple_phasing_resource_is_now_available-t25809.0.html

[Astral316]

Interesting... I remember once asking to see my spirit guide and got a video game-like "text message" with the avatar of an old man next to it. Not sure what the message said but it made me a bit uncomfortable and I felt more or less blocked from pursuing that endeavor.

I can't tell you what your experience means, but it was a great read nonetheless.

[Jilt]

I translate the cartoon characters as my consciousness telling me that are symbols and not real beings. I appreciate the distinction, actually, since they usually show up in the black 3D world that Frank describes as between F2 and F3.

As a total aside, I've awoken a few times this month to find a holographic hummingbird flitting about the room and a friend of mine who is a Shaman said that was my animal totem revealing itself. In reading the symbolism of this totem/symbol, if makes total sense for me.

[c0sm0nautt]

Hey, great story. I'm afraid you are more of an accomplished explorer than myself, so I can't offer too much advise. I'm sure your guides have your back and you can keep on exploring. Sounds like you are finding out some interesting things. 

[Greytraveller]

Hallo Jilt
Having the ability to return to a specific astral area and become familiar with the residents and environs there is a BIG bonus. I have journeyed to many unusual astral realms but have Never been able to deliberately return to any of them.  It's not for want of desire or trying, it's just that my own astral travels seem to be mostly random.
So, any advice or info you can provide as to how you manage to return to those same astral locales (like "Zion", and where/what is that btw?)
would be greatly appreciated. 

Regards
Grey

[Jilt]

I haven't had much luck returning to the same location other than this experience where I went to the park with classical buildings (and after reading Frank Keppler's description I believe this was a F3 astral construction since it was more vivid and unchanging than F2 worlds).

The only other times I've had reoccurring locations is:

. happily flying in the puffy cloud world with classical music playing
. in a cityscape unable to fly through unceasing layers of power lines
. what looks like ancient Rome (and when I do, I'm assisted by another being who literally takes me under their wing and flies me around)
. outer space (once escorted around the dark side of the moon and I saw a complex of low-slung huge buildings)

I'm going to outer space more now that I'm over the fear that I'm too 'far out' to return to my body. Sometimes when I get to space, I can touch the sky and it appears 2-D/flexible which is my interpretation that we live in a holographic universe and are projecting the whole thing. But perhaps I'm reading too many Seth/Jane Roberts and books on quantum physics.

[Tee1234]

As background, after years of meditating I spontaneously started having lucid dreams and OBEs about 10 years ago and now nearly every morning. I've read most of the books on the subject and use the 'rope climbing' technique which is the most effective and quickest for me.

Early this morning during my first OBE I entered my usual black space 'staging area' where I felt a rush of air and forward momentum. I came to a  large movie screen that unfolded and an on-screen man started firing a gun at me with big balls of light coming out. The man was 2-D but the balls of light were 3D and came towards me. I decided not to be afraid and held out my hand to block the light balls and woke up. This was similar to an unusual OBE a few days ago when I asked to go to my Akashic records and I encountered a detailed cartoon figure that blocked my progress and blew up. I woke up, had another OBE and ran into the very same character which also blew up as if I was in a computer game and the same program looped.

After this morning's movie screen OBE, I had another and decided to chant 'Om'. Singing or chanting really elevates my flying/experience and this time others joined in and then a full musical accompaniment. Lovely. I ended up in a garden setting with a classical Greek-like monument and I said to myself that this seemed familiar and I wondered if it was an astral plane construction and a soft English woman's voice say 'yes'. I asked who she was and she said 'Rebullous' and she was my guide. I asked for how long and she said 'from the beginning'. Then a woman appeared who I assumed was her and said I was getting into dangerous territory and I needed to avoid the Queen and at that moment another woman appeared and grabbed my left wrist and started to cut it. That freaked me out so I decided to wake up rather than fight back and when fully awake I saw an angry ghost head above the bed for a few seconds and asked her to leave and she dissolved. This gave me serious pause because not only did the dream seem more threatening than usual but as sometimes happens when I have a scary dream that same character in a holographic ghostly form is in my room when I awake making me think it's not just my dream imagination but a thought form/being.

But that didn't stop me from inducing another OBE and I found myself in another outdoor classical setting and a woman immediately introduces herself as Anna, my guide (the name Anna has come up as my guide before). I get a good vibe from her and she said I've been getting into dangerous territory lately with my OBEs and that it's safe once I get to "Zion" where I am now. She then walks me to a round temple and seats me in a chair and said they are going to teach me how to have safer OBEs. Unfortunately I then wake up with a start.

What to make of all this? After having fairly typical flying OBEs to cities or among clouds or those that morph into regular dreams, these are hyper-vivid and longer and seem to be warnings or blocking my travels. Are these just another barrier our unconscious throws up like the clanking sounds or threatening voices I used to have when I first starting having OBEs? I think there's really nothing to fear so I'm going to keep exploring these new realms and do my best to stay in a meditative/higher vibrational state while doing so. Any advice or similar experiences would be most welcome.

Jill

Theres 2 things I wanna talk about but il start here. As for those frightening experiences, like getting shot at -stuff like that. Maybe It was caused by your guide to see how you would react. Maybe she wanted to see if you can overcome it and not be afraid, to let you know your in control.
I wonder about stuff like that everytime I get back from one. Let me explain about the one I recently had- Il get right to the part that relates to what im referring. So im in the astral and im going up this road and I see I woman waving at me from the porch of a house. She wanted me to come to her -So I did. She asked me if I can help and to follow her into the house -so i did. We walked through her house and came to a garage where there was a car parked there and a black steel safe nxt to it. She said she needed the key for the car but it was locked in the safe and she couldnt get it. She asked me to get it.
Now she stared at me, as if she was testing me to see if I could get the key which was locked in this big steel safe. So I started peeling the steel off the safe like a banana and got the key. I handed it to her and she try to start the car. But it wouldnt start. So I put my hand on the car and just simply willed it to start without the key. She smiled at me and drove away. Shortly after it ended.
Obviously I thought alot about what that was all about and I came to the conclusion that it was kind of like a test. She was seeing if I can overcome the obstacles that were presented to me that would of been impossible in reality. For whatever reason I dont know. Maybe that lady was my guide, I dont know. But maybe thats why youve been experiencing stuff like that, just to overcome and know your in control. -something along those lines.
As for the other part when you wake up n see things I think thats just hallucinations. Sometimes when i get shot back to my body from an obe from being suddenly frightened, ill wake up while im still in sleep paralysis and for a couple seconds while im still unable to move ill see things. That to me happened more times than I can count, I wouldnt even think twice about it.
-Ive got a tons of experiences that left me wondering, Id love to share stories with u sometime.

[Jilt]

Yes, I've often thought that any challenges that come up are tests much like the Buddha experienced when he was 'attacked' during meditation by manifestations of his fears. He eventually learned that it was all an illusion of his own making and that there was nothing ever to fear in the waking 'real' world either. This is evidenced in the dream world when you send love or humor to a negative entity and it transforms into something positive (or disappears).

Perhaps it's like police training where they continuously go through attack drills so that police officers learn how to react calmly and at their best without letting the adrenalin rush you would normally experience turn them to mush. I can hear news that normally would freak out most people and not let it get to me so perhaps it's working!

Thanks for sharing your key dream. I love it and there's many layers here to translate. What I find interesting about the guides or characters like the one you describe is how they feel neutral when they are giving you the test (which makes me think they are of your own making) vs. some of those that give you brilliant advice or a feeling of pure love (which makes me think they are actually guides). It's the emotions you're picking up that are the telling and the emotions/focus you radiate (rather than your words) that really transform your experience.

[Tee1234]

Yes, I've often thought that any challenges that come up are tests much like the Buddha experienced when he was 'attacked' during meditation by manifestations of his fears. He eventually learned that it was all an illusion of his own making and that there was nothing ever to fear in the waking 'real' world either. This is evidenced in the dream world when you send love or humor to a negative entity and it transforms into something positive (or disappears).

Perhaps it's like police training where they continuously go through attack drills so that police officers learn how to react calmly and at their best without letting the adrenalin rush you would normally experience turn them to mush. I can hear news that normally would freak out most people and not let it get to me so perhaps it's working!

Thanks for sharing your key dream. I love it and there's many layers here to translate. What I find interesting about the guides or characters like the one you describe is how they feel neutral when they are giving you the test (which makes me think they are of your own making) vs. some of those that give you brilliant advice or a feeling of pure love (which makes me think they are actually guides). It's the emotions you're picking up that are the telling and the emotions/focus you radiate (rather than your words) that really transform your experience.

I consider dreaming and an obe completely different. That key story was an induced OBE.
When I dream, I consider that to be not real. I dont give my dreams a 2nd thought.
I believe an OBE is real. I can go on n on but you get my point.

[Summerlander]

Actually, about dreaming, I disagree. I had a dream once and never gave it a second thought until a couple of weeks later when it came true. It seems that certain dreams can be precognitive. There is also such a thing as shared dreaming, it's happened to me twice and I find it harder to believe that me and my wife happened to have the same dream and the same conversation (more like argument) by coincidence.

And Mode 2 OOBEs (AP) tend to be trips to the metaphysical realm...a realm where thoughts have their own reality. A realm where things such as memories, future probabilities, imagination and dreams have their own reality. If a dream is vague that's because your focus is poor at the time. Mode 2 OOBEs are an entry into that realm which can reflect your expectations too - hence the inaccurate replicas of your bedroom when you separate - and the further you go the stranger it can get.

In fact our consciousness already resides there but it is a matter of where we are focusing. When we daydream, we partially focus there. Such reality can reflect your personal mental states and experience has led me to suspect that there are collective mental states that can be shared too. It seems that Carl Jung noticed this too hence the personal and the collective unconscious. Both dreams and Mode 2 OOBEs can appear to present evidence of telepathy sometimes.

Mode 1 OOBEs (RTZ projections) is when you focus on the consciousness that resides in the physical realm which is all-pervading as it resides in the body and extends beyond it. Hypothetically speaking, remote viewing is to Mode 1 OOBEs what daydreaming is to Mode 2 OOBEs.

I would not say that dreams are not real. I think "surreal" is a better term. Yes, a lot of the time you are molding your own playdoh in the dream-state, but, this does not mean that the playdoh you are playing with doesn't exist. I strongly suspect that thoughts actually exist as an extension of reality, possibly dwelling in frequencies beyond the ultrasonic which remain undetected by science...for now.

Let's not forget that the quantum world can defy our logic, in fact behaving very much like a dream, and yet we don't say it isn't real or that it's not happening...we merely call it strange.

[Xanth]

I consider dreaming and an obe completely different. That key story was an induced OBE.
When I dream, I consider that to be not real. I dont give my dreams a 2nd thought.
I believe an OBE is real. I can go on n on but you get my point.

Well it really does come down to personal belief + experiences, and in the end nobody can ever really prove to you one way or the other.

I'm always quite baffled and puzzled as to why people think they're "separate" things.
Through my experiences I've seen that they're, quite literally, one in the same. 
Also, the term "real" is quite the conundrum.  What exactly does "REAL" mean?

[Summerlander]

YES! I was also coming to that point...^^

What is REAL? Even Buddhist philosophy (and I'm gonna be using Buddhist terms here to explain this perspective) teaches that this is only a concept. A delusion. A delusion of Samsara because every concept has to have an opposite...REAL...UNREAL...LIGHT-DARK...PRETTY-UGLY...and so on...

In nirvana...which they consider ultimate reality, we are free of forms, senses, concepts and selfhood. It's neutral. It's bliss. According to such philosophy, there's no real truth but emptiness. The rest are just delusions...delusions which are existent nonetheless because they can be experienced by the mind and this is what fuels the realm of samsara.

[Jilt]

Yes, I agree with the last few posts -- in my experience there's little difference between an OBE and lucid dreams (I have both all the time and go through the similar stages of an OBE in a lucid dream but just don't have the 'lift out of the body' sensation and see the room). Staying fully conscious in either state will help you get to the next realm and further from normal unconscious dreaming.

Lately 'reality' in my waking world is coming up with some downright magical manifestations, it just takes a little longer to see the manifestation than in the dream/OBE world. So like many spiritual traditions believe, perhaps waking life is just a more 'stable' dream but your dreaming nonetheless and when you die is when you really wake up (well, maybe, you could get stuck in a lower F3, but I'm hopeful we progress).

[Tee1234]

Well it really does come down to personal belief + experiences, and in the end nobody can ever really prove to you one way or the other.

I'm always quite baffled and puzzled as to why people think they're "separate" things.
Through my experiences I've seen that they're, quite literally, one in the same. 
Also, the term "real" is quite the conundrum. 

What exactly does "REAL" mean?


C'mon Man its not that deep. I mean ya have to draw the line somewhere. You consider every dream you have to be obe?...no difference in the 2?

Personally for me, if I dont get the vibrations and exit my body its not an OBE.

[Summerlander]

Yes, you can see it from that perspective. But consider the fact that when you dream, you are not exactly focusing in the physical body either, you feel like you are somewhere else...hence, you are in essence experiencing being "out of body".

Besides, remember these quotes from The Matrix?

"Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world?"

"If real is what you can feel, smell, taste and see, then 'real' is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain"

when you think "real", like most people, you are thinking about something which has an actual existence, something that can be found objectively, something fixed...but you also have to realise that this apparently fixed and solid world is made up of subatomic particles which can behave in contradicting ways and their behaviour can strangely depend upon observation...just like a dream. I think this is where Xanth is coming from when he says that this reality could be a very persistent dream.

The objects you see in the physical realm are not exactly what they appear to be. The desk and the computer you use are not really stable. They are made up of atoms that vibrate violently. Nothing is at rest here and yet, this reality can create the illusion that things are fixed.

Also, objects are not really solid even though you perceive them to be so. They are made of atoms and the empty space between them. The empty space is greater than the amount of atoms that make up the object. This simple observation would lead you to the conclusion that the object is mostly made of nothing. The atoms themselves are mostly made of empty space if you go from the nuclei to outer orbits. Break down the atoms themselves and you realise that even these are NOT solid at all. You are then found with bundles of energy which are just waves of possibility in nothingness.

So...if on a quantum level we can observe that even the physical is not stable, just like a dream, and yet we label it "real", is it fair to say that dreams are not real?

[Xanth]

Personally for me, if I dont get the vibrations and exit my body its not an OBE.

Might I *suggest* that by limiting your definition of what an OBE/AP is that, maybe, you're limiting yourself?
Instead, why not just remain open to the possibilities out there and allow to happen to you whatever may happen. 

[Greytraveller]

Greetings

Tee, your last post was

What exactly does "REAL" mean?

C'mon Man its not that deep. I mean ya have to draw the line somewhere. You consider every dream you have to be obe?...no difference in the 2?

Personally for me, if I dont get the vibrations and exit my body its not an OBE.

THANK YOU 
. (Except for the part about vibrations which I have found are Not absolutely necessary, but oh well).
There Does seem to be a need for some people to CONTINUALLY reiterate their belief that there is no difference between an OBE and a lucid dream. This belief has been stated SO MANY times in SO many different threads as to have become somewhat obnoxious.
And the argument about what is Real changes the discussion about what a person experienced into what a person believed that they experienced AND what other people BELIEVED the experiencer experienced.
I am NOT going to get drawn into a debate or long "discussion'" about this. As far as I am concerned this is hardly different than debating the subject of "are OBEs real?" with ardent skeptics. It is a waste of time. If other people want to continually espouse this belief so be it.
Tee I admire you for 'sticking to your guns' on this. Really I do. But we have had debates like this here before. IMO it's a waste of time.

Sincerely 
Grey

[Summerlander]

There Does seem to be a need for some people to CONTINUALLY reiterate their belief that there is no difference between an OBE and a lucid dream. This belief has been stated SO MANY times in SO many different threads as to have become somewhat obnoxious.

Why do you find it obnoxious when there's a good chance that it could be true? Is it not possible that both could be experiences of the same phenomenon but just brought about in different ways? For example, you can either be carried into a hospital while unconscious or you can enter it consciously...

To me that doesn't seem like a fair statement, Grey, it seems biased. Someone else could come along and say that some people feel the need to CONTINUALLY reiterate their belief that OOBEs and lucid dreams are completely different things and that it has been stated SO MANY times and in SO many threads as to have become somewhat obnoxious.

How would that make you feel? Either beliefs are valid. Neither are obnoxious. I will say this though. To make the distinction between OOBEs and lucid dreams solely on vibrations is baseless. Why? Because I have experienced vibrations in both. I have had DILDs where I have experienced vibrations (while in them) and upon return (regaining physical awareness). Regardless of what the experience is, vibes can be experienced.

[Xanth]

Why do you find it obnoxious when there's a good chance that it could be true?

It's really besides the point if it 'could' be true or not.

On a forum like this where there's a continual stream of people coming in and leaving... that's why I keep reiterating it over and over.
It's also why we answer the same questions over and over.

[Summerlander]

I just don't understand why Grey finds one side of the coin obnoxious when the other side turns up just as much. Do you see where I'm coming from, Xanth?

[Xanth]

I just don't understand why Grey finds one side of the coin obnoxious when the other side is turns up just as much. Do you see where I'm coming from, Xanth?

Well I'd rather not take sides here really... I'm more just stating how I see it. 

[Summerlander]

It's not about taking sides really. It really doesn't matter how me or you see things. I just don't see why Grey feels that one side is obnoxious. where is this coming from?

[Tee1234]

It's not about taking sides really. It really doesn't matter how me or you see things. I just don't see why Grey feels that one side is obnoxious. where is this coming from?

Can I get ya a tissue bud?

Take a deep breathe n count to 10. Where all friends here.