Tom Campbell's OBE Verifications (in the lab) + other verifications

[Volgerle]

I found this fascinating and that's why I want to share it here. T. Campbell did a whole series of verifications at the Monroe lab (with Bob Monroe then). Unfortunately, as it seems, they never documented it in any scientific paper. Maybe that was not their aim at all, but I think it is still very sad that they did not do more on it in a regular, more documented and systematic fashion. Anyway, here it is.

"My Big Toe" - Part 1: Awakening, Chapter 10: "But Is It Real?" excerpt from Google-Books:
http://books.google.com/books?id=RYHtBPiZVgsC&pg=PA84&dq=%22trip+%28experience%29+in+the+nonphysical+together%22&hl=en&ei=750HTtqMKsvEswbvp9TbDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22trip%20%28experience%29%20in%20the%20nonphysical%20together%22&f=false

"One of our first experiments was for Dennis and me to take a trip (experience) in the nonphysical together. Our independent descriptions of what we were experiencing should correlate closely if the experience were real and independent of either of us. From the beginning of our training, we had learned to give real-time descriptions of whatever we experienced. A microphone was suspended from the ceiling above each of our heads. What we said was recorded on tape. Dennis and I could not hear each other because we were in separate soundproof chambers.
Dennis and I quickly achieved the appropriate altered state, left our bodies, and met in the nonphysical as planned. It was a long adventure. We went places, saw things, had conversations with each other and with several nonphysical beings we happened to run into the long way.
Bob had let us go a long time before he ended the session and called us back. We pulled off our EEG and GSR electrodes and stumbled out of the darkness into the hallway of the lab.
In the control room, Bob was waiting for us. After a quick exchange, we knew that his would be a good test because we both had experienced many specific interactions. But were they the same interactions? Bob looked at us deadpan. 'So you two think you were together?' he asked, trying to sound disappointed. We looked at each other and shrugged our shoulders.
'Maybe,' Dennis said tentatively, 'at least we perceived meeting each other.'
'Listen to this!' Bob said emphatically. The tapes, rewound as we disconnected electrodes and climbed out of our chambers, began to roll forward. We sat down and listened. The correlation was astonishing. For almost two hours we sat there with our mouths open, hooting and exclaiming, filling in the details for each other. Bob was now grinning. 'Now that tells you something, doesn't it?' he exclaimed beaming. He was every bit as excited as we were.
I was dumbfounded. There was only one good explanation: THIS STUFF WAS REAL! (...)
We repeated that experiment with similar results. It wasn't a phenomenon that depended on the two of us. Nancy Lea and I shared equally astonishing joint experiences. We tried other things as well. We read three and four digit numbers written on a blackboard next to the control room. Somebody would write a random number and we would read it while our bodies lay asleep. Then they would erase it and write another one, and so on and on. We went places - to people's homes - and saw what they were doing, then called them or talked to them the next day to check it out."
- Dr Thomas Campbell (My Big T.O.E.)

I also mention this (and now many other, e.g. from oberf.com and other forums) on my little modest webpage where I started to collect these things now (recently updated with a lot more accounts!)

http://reconnection.lima-city.de/OBE-Verification/index.html

Should you have any verifications of your own, you can mention them here and I can include them (with link to this thread) on this little website too. Feel free to do so if you like.

[Pauli2]

Why doesn't someone break that Randi price..?

[Rudolph]

Why doesn't someone break that Randi price..?

From what I read, Randi places so many ridiculous restrictions on the test and takes total control of the entire experiment and does not allow for dry runs or warm-ups or second chances. It is his way or nothing. You get one shot and if you fail that time he has the rights to present the failure publicly in his own narrow minded venue.

Few people will take that risk. Even the best OBEers have a bad day now and then.

[Xanth]

I found this fascinating and that's why I want to share it here. T. Campbell did a whole series of verifications at the Monroe lab (with Bob Monroe then). Unfortunately, as it seems, they never documented it in any scientific paper. Maybe that was not their aim at all, but I think it is still very sad that they did not do more on it in a regular, more documented and systematic fashion. Anyway, here it is.

"My Big Toe" - Part 1: Awakening, Chapter 10: "But Is It Real?" excerpt from Google-Books:
http://books.google.com/books?id=RYHtBPiZVgsC&pg=PA84&dq=%22trip+%28experience%29+in+the+nonphysical+together%22&hl=en&ei=750HTtqMKsvEswbvp9TbDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22trip%20%28experience%29%20in%20the%20nonphysical%20together%22&f=false

I also mention this (and now many other, e.g. from oberf.com and other forums) on my little modest webpage where I started to collect these things now (recently updated with a lot more accounts!)

http://reconnection.lima-city.de/OBE-Verification/index.html

Should you have any verifications of your own, you can mention them here and I can include them (with link to this thread) on this little website too. Feel free to do so if you like.

Yeah, he relates that particular experience in his book: My-Big-TOE.
It was his "AH HA!" moment regarding the out of body experience and it being REAL.

Everyone needs to come to that conclusion on their though.

He speaks of Dennis... Dennis' "AH HA!" moment came a little while longer after that point.  The specific story you relayed above didn't really cause Dennis with too much concern.  His moment came a little while later when he was having a "psychic cleansing" of sorts, when the healer asked him what he wanted healed, Dennis thought to himself something to the effect of "heal me of any blocks that keep me from believing"... then the healing progressed and he was LITERALLY healed of that.  His eyes opened wide to what he has missed all these years.  There's a video of it if you wanna get more specific information regarding it, but it's really neat.

Found it:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoTpu4jDiSo

[Summerlander]

Thomas Campbell appears to be on the right track. I've also had some verifications (my visits to a few Astral Viewers members). It seems that, more often than not, you get it right when visiting people (you either perceive the 'gist' of what they are doing in actuality or you appear to view their thought forms), at least from what I've experienced so far.

It is not just stuff from your mind that you experience. Yes, it is also that but there's more! I strongly suspect that you can also explore that which is not MAINLY yours - you may access the collective. And all this by simply using your intent once you enter the Phase. It seems one is able to travel extra-dimensionally within consciousness and bypass physical rules.

If I hadn't experienced this for myself I would be sceptical of it, but, the truth is that OOBEs are revealing to that point. This is also why I've tried to get the lottery numbers once and I plan to do it again (of course, taking up on Campbell's computer system analogy, it might not be so easy to find that "file" amongst an array of other potential files).

I'm glad Pauli2 raised the Randi issue and I agree with Rudolph. Randi can be good on many levels but he is way too close minded. He seems intent on finding whatever mundane explanation he can in order to use it to protect his money and REPUTATION. He lacks what Campbell has: open-minded scepticism.

Randi is too inhospitable for OOBErs because sometimes they need a few tries to get it right. Here's a scenario that I will use as an example:

Johnny can enter the Phase quite easily. He is experienced and after having carried out his own OOBE study, he comes to the conclusion that there is more to reality then meets the eye. He finds that when he visits people in Mode 2 OOBEs, he can peruse their minds. He finds that he can also talk to the dead and was able to get validations from the info that was provided from beyond the grave. He once found his lost mobile phone in a Mode 1 OOBE which coincided with its exact actual location. His Phase experiences proved to him, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the human mind extends beyond the physical body. He decides to go for Randi's prize...

Randi sets up an experiment (fully in control) similar to the one in the famous case of Miss Z. The numbers are placed in a location and hidden from everyone else's view. "Only an OOBEr will be able to tell us exactly what numbers are on the piece of paper". Johnny enters the Phase. The environment he encounters appears correct at first but then he discovers some anomalies and fluctuations. He finds that everybody in the audience is naked. This knocks his confidence a bit and more of his thought forms manifest further distorting the reality before him. In spite of that, he flies up to where the piece of paper is to have a look at the numbers.

He finds an order of numbers that keep changing rapidly like the digits in a stopwatch. "What is the friggin' number?" he says to himself as he watches before him what is probably the unmanifest probabilities. He finds that the more he observes the apparent sheet of paper, the more the numbers slow down. As he feels that he is trying to measure something, the transfiguration on the sheet of paper settles into a satisfactory outcome. From an array of possible realities he had finally captured one that apparently had a high probability. But high probability for what physical universe? Our own? Or another system? He returns to his body.

JOHNNY: I saw the numbers.

RANDI: Well...?

JOHNNY: 64599.

RANDI: No. It was 73598. At least you got two numbers and in the right order...*turns to the audience*...hence I conclude, ladies and gentlemen, that OOBEs are nothing but hallucinations, illusions concocted by the brain, they are not real...

JOHNNY: But...what about the two numbers I got in the right order? what if I saw the high probability for an alternate reality? Give me another chance and I might separate in the real-time zone and get them right...

RANDI: I'm afraid you had your chance. Even if you got them right the second time, there is a good chance that it would be merely coincidental...

JOHNNY: But Mr. Randi, I don't think reality is that simple...you see, I think all these realities overlap, some resemble our world, others are far removed from it, it's like a full-void full of vibrations that represent many environments and sometimes I don't always tune into the desired one...

RANDI: theories...theories...*rolls his eyes*...it's all in the brain, my friend. I can have the same experience, which is illusory, by stimulating my brain with a God Helmet, for example, or if I take a powerful dose of DMT intravenously...

You see what's happening here? It would be very controversial in the eyes of the world and Randi would probably get death threats from many OOBErs around the world...

[Ssergiu]

Even if Johnny got the numbers right, Randi would say it's a coincidence and would probably ask him to do it again.

[Summerlander]

Yep!!! In fact, one go would not suffice with Randi if Johnny guessed it right the first time! He'd put it down to coincidence or wild guessing until proved otherwise...but even if Johnny got it right a second...Randi would make him go a third time and still say it's a coincidence or imply that the experiment has somehow been compromised.

[Under_the_Midnight_Sun]

I found this fascinating and that's why I want to share it here. T. Campbell did a whole series of verifications at the Monroe lab (with Bob Monroe then). Unfortunately, as it seems, they never documented it in any scientific paper. Maybe that was not their aim at all, but I think it is still very sad that they did not do more on it in a regular, more documented and systematic fashion. Anyway, here it is.

"My Big Toe" - Part 1: Awakening, Chapter 10: "But Is It Real?" excerpt from Google-Books:
http://books.google.com/books?id=RYHtBPiZVgsC&pg=PA84&dq=%22trip+%28experience%29+in+the+nonphysical+together%22&hl=en&ei=750HTtqMKsvEswbvp9TbDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22trip%20%28experience%29%20in%20the%20nonphysical%20together%22&f=false

I also mention this (and now many other, e.g. from oberf.com and other forums) on my little modest webpage where I started to collect these things now (recently updated with a lot more accounts!)

http://reconnection.lima-city.de/OBE-Verification/index.html

Should you have any verifications of your own, you can mention them here and I can include them (with link to this thread) on this little website too. Feel free to do so if you like.

interesting.. I wonder how they remained conscious enough in their physical bodies to record their experiences? Or were their OBEs more of a minds eye projection? Wow- this would be a great way to record and preserve our own OBEs without much memory loss.. if it is indeed not that difficult.

[Summerlander]

It shouldn't be that difficult to remember anyway. All you have to do is write down all that you can remember as soon as you wake up. OOBEs are easier to remember than dreams because of their impact. In both, you will find that memory works in reverse. It's like a backward thread that you chase. The more notes you make upon waking the more you will remember. Paying attention to the thoughts that you had upon waking, can lead you right back to the experience (clearer memory).

Once it's recorded in a journal, it is safe and you can go about your business during the day and focus on worldly matters knowing that the experience is recorded and cannot be altered by false memory syndrome. You can re-read the notes in your journal as it may help you to remember more. During the day, more memories from the OOBE/dream may surface without you having to make an effort to dig them out. You will know these are genuine memories because they will resonate with you and the overall memory of the metaphysical experience.

The same brain mechanism that controls whether we remember or forget things in waking life is involved in dream/Phase memory. When you wake during REM sleep and remember clearly what was experienced, theta wave oscillations manifest in frontal and prefrontal cortex areas - these are the parts of the brain where most of our advanced thinking occurs. The same activity has been observed and found to be extremely important in recalling memories during wakefulness.

The same parts of the brain are active for recalling regardless of whether one is awake or asleep. It seems that this process is continuous throughout the sleep-wake cycle too. Amazing, isn't it?

[Volgerle]

From what I read, Randi places so many ridiculous restrictions on the test and takes total control of the entire experiment and does not allow for dry runs or warm-ups or second chances. It is his way or nothing. You get one shot and if you fail that time he has the rights to present the failure publicly in his own narrow minded venue.
Few people will take that risk. Even the best OBEers have a bad day now and then.

Yeah. Already quite a while ago, I read this nice blog entry that in a very detailed way examines the Randi Prize hoax (it's 3 parts actually):

http://michaelprescott.typepad.com/michael_prescotts_blog/2006/12/the_challenge.html
http://michaelprescott.typepad.com/michael_prescotts_blog/2006/12/the_challenge_p.html
http://michaelprescott.typepad.com/michael_prescotts_blog/2006/12/the_challenge_p_1.html

There is also a book out on this now:
http://www.amazon.com/RANDIS-PRIZE-sceptics-paranormal-matters/dp/1848764944/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1309734806&sr=8-1

I have still a long reading list already, but I might include it soon.

[Volgerle]

There's a video of it if you wanna get more specific information regarding it, but it's really neat. Found it:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoTpu4jDiSo

thanks, bookmarked and will watch it soon

[Summerlander]

Looks like Randi got caught up in his reputation. His superscepticism is blinding him and narrowing his mind.

[Xanth]

Looks like Randi got caught up in his reputation. His superscepticism is blinding him and narrowing his mind.

Can't really blame him.  It's not like anyone has brought forth any awesome proof otherwise. 

But then again, it also doesn't sound like he active tries to find his own proof... which is really more to the point.  You can only ever prove this kind of stuff to yourself.

[bluremi]

The vast majority of people who apply to get Randi's money have claims like the following:

- I can find water with dowsing rods
- I have invented a perpetual motion machine
- I can tell you what a random person is thinking 100 miles away, but they have to be one of a pair of twins
- The government is trying to read my thoughts, give me a million dollars???

If there is even one authentic demonstrable use of paranormal abilities, Randi has no choice but to use rigorous scientific standards, exactly like you would use in testing the efficacy of a new drug, in order to separate the wheat from the chaff. He posts all communication and test results on his forums. I've read a lot of them and his testers are very fair and accommodating to even the nuttiest applicants.

Calling him "close minded" and "superskeptical" (whatever that means, how can you be TOO reliant on evidence to test the truth of a claim? Should you use half evidence and half hearsay?) does nothing except raise the smugness level of people here on the forums. It would be more helpful to figure out a way to demonstrate or record your abilities to let someone with a skeptical mindset begin to take you seriously.

The majority of people supporting the existence of paranormal abilities don't have a basic understanding of the scientific method or of the common cognitive biases. If someone experiencing a true psi event is indistinguishable to an observer from your common nutjob, it's not exactly the observer's fault for being "close minded," is it?

[Xanth]

Well, since this is in a thread about Tom Campbell... it's funny, because if his theories are correct, then the Scientific Method is actually not only obsolete, but anything and everything ever determined accurate by it is now unfounded again. 

Suffice to say though, trying to "convince skeptics" isn't anyone's job.  Personal proof is easily attained if they simply put in the time and effort to find it for themselves instead of having it delivered to them on a silver platter for them to pick apart.

[Summerlander]

Exactly. And I've already demonstrated why performing an OOBE experiment like the Miss Z one would not be good enough for Randi. Randi has already decided what OOBEs are anyway...dreams or hallucinations. He's only had one OOBE in his life and he's already decided what's going on.

By the way, I don't think OOBEs or even telepathy are paranormal in any way. I think both are pretty much normal but we are yet to fully fathom them.

[bluremi]

Well, since this is in a thread about Tom Campbell... it's funny, because if his theories are correct, then the Scientific Method is actually not only obsolete, but anything and everything ever determined accurate by it is now unfounded again. 

Actually, if his theories are correct, it means that for all intents and purposes the Scientific Method is still accurate in PMR, since it is categorically impossible to prove that it is inaccurate according to the rules of the system. He kind of shoots himself in the foot with this catch-22 of the PUP.

[Xanth]

Not at all, I think you're confusing his theory.

Simply put, his theory states that Intent *WILL* (not can) change the outcome towards what the experimenter wants/desires/needs/intends.
This skews the Scientific Measure into absolute uselessness.

[Summerlander]

According to Campbell, the Scientific Method is currently still dealing with the "Little Picture" scenario. His theory deals with the "Big Picture". The larger reality. His words...

[bluremi]

His theory also states that these effects (although they can be said to exist) cannot be proven to exist, therefore the Scientific Method is still internally and externally consistent. Any attempts to prove these effects will be prevented by the PUP.

Basically the PSI effects are about as relevant to the Scientific Method as the china teapot floating in the asteroid belt is to ontology.

[Xanth]

His theory also states that these effects (although they can be said to exist) cannot be proven to exist, therefore the Scientific Method is still internally and externally consistent. Any attempts to prove these effects will be prevented by the PUP.

For others: PUP = psi uncertainty principle
Not at all... the double slit experiment actually provides plenty of evidence in and of itself.  There's nothing "PSI" about it.
The experiments with the hospital data, being able to change the data in such a way that it's 100% accurate every single time is quite the feat and supports his theory pretty well if you ask me.  And the experiment of raising the PH of a glass of water using nothing more than Intent.

So I'm not sure what you're basing that on.  It's from nothing I've read of his, but I could be forgetting something. 
Could you provide some backup to it?

I mean, if I've missed something... I'd love to know it.
And it's quite possible, I'm not getting any younger afterall.  LOL 

[Summerlander]

LOL!

What about the six pack experiment? when I look at my belly, I see the pack. When I look away, it's gone!

[Volgerle]

His theory also states that these effects (although they can be said to exist) cannot be proven to exist, therefore the Scientific Method is still internally and externally consistent. Any attempts to prove these effects will be prevented by the PUP.

Basically the PSI effects are about as relevant to the Scientific Method as the china teapot floating in the asteroid belt is to ontology.

well, the question is, do we want to talk about what (mainstream!) science currently is in its restricted form or do we talk about what science should be?

the problem here surely is also that many people (not just skeptics but a large part of society) assume this kind of established (materialistic) 'science' as their new truth provider (replacing religion and/or philosophy)

maybe that's why the book I linked above (Randis prize) is maybe a good book, especially due to the last words "... and why it matters"

moreover, the paranormal (hinting to the "big" picture behind the little picture where the close-minded want to remain due to their ideology) has long been proven or at least shown according to the scientific method, it is just constantly negated and/or ignored by the skeptics societies and the media (and thus: by mainstream society in general).

so in sum: the scientific method with the little picture in its only focus is a perfect tool to hide behind if you don't want to get a taste of what reality 'really' is

[Summerlander]

I couldn't have said it better, Volgerie. In fact, most physicists go by the "calculate and don't ask" philosophy with their little pictures as the best explanation they've got for the nature of reality. Their little picture is fraught with gaps that are more convenient to ignore. As for materialism...pffft...it's just another creed really...

[bluremi]

When someone expresses disdain towards another person's views or methods and then proceeds to call them close-minded, it's hypocritical.

I'm open to all ideas and judge them on their merits, so when someone speaks with smugness or ridicule it's like a red alarm warning me to be skeptical.