Why do you want OBEs?

[floriferous]

I'm interested to know what is at the core of why you want to have OBEs/Astral Projections.

I am keen to hear what is the reason for people. Let me know your thoughts.

[LightBeam]

I think our spirits have a natural urge to learn. Therefore exploration is the best way to satisfy this urge. If you know that there is a whole new endless world beyond the boundaries of this reality, who wouldn't want to see it. For me, with each AP, I feel my consciousness expanding tremendously, I look at things from a very different perspective and that gives me a sense of content knowing the purposes of existence. But at the same time the urge to explore more and more new worlds grows even bigger. The sense of adventure, new knowledge really charges my excitement and overall happiness and joy. I want to see the BIG picture and I do see a lot of it. That gives me a sense of incredible freedom.

[urshebear]

Self discovery and expansion.

[Athensis]

My reasons changed over time as experiences developed.
First it was curiosity. It was a " what the heck just happened". So discovering what our capabilities were that I had spent years not knowing about.
Then it was " who is behind the scenes here? There's an intelligence here that isn't showing itself. Who or what is it?
Then it was compulsive.
I think that if I was truly honest then for the last few years every time I have  a conscious OBE it has been to teach me and to put thought into it, and it has always been relevant to my physical life, so it makes me wonder when I think back to the beginning when I was just experiencing without relating this to current physical life , just how many of these were set up for me? A simulation. I don't know, but one thing I do know is that by taking note of the experiences it  is more precious to me than some may think of the teachings of the Bible.

[Xanth]

When I was much younger it was something I discovered and I wanted to do the more advanced stuff.

But what I've learned now is that projection is kind of useless to me.  This physical experience is much more applicable to the reason why we're here.
We're here to learn to become better, more pure consciousnesses and this reality provides the absolute best training ground for that to happen.

I continue to teach here because I know that people will eventually come to the same decision after enough time.

[omcasey]

Xanth!, good to see you here on your home turf ... ( meaning just where I first intersected with you ).

It may be something to consider, also, that where you have arrived is likewise not a stopping point, but a juncture, as before - on the way.

As a good friend of mine once said — the trick is to NEVER LAND.

[Bob_the_floater]

Curiosity, exploration and self discovery. To escape/get a break from the laws of the physical world. And to get answers as to why it happened naturally to me as a child. If the last hadn't occurred, I probably wouldn't be drawn to the subject.

[Nameless]

Still working on this question since it was first proposed back in early July. I really got nothing so far beyond a few random curiosities.

[shineling]

I have to admit that my favorite part of OOBEing is the love and sex. It took me years to become any good at it because it works a little different in the astral. Orgasms are harder to achieve for boys in the astral but this also allows the sex to last longer. And the kissing is different too. You can actually meld with the person through a long lasting kiss. I've never experienced this level of intimacy in the real-world. I definitely recommend exploring astral love, sex, and kissing.  If astral sex was the only thing an OOBE offered it would still be worth it. It's pretty amazing.

[Xanth]

Xanth!, good to see you here on your home turf ... ( meaning just where I first intersected with you ).

It may be something to consider, also, that where you have arrived is likewise not a stopping point, but a juncture, as before - on the way.

As a good friend of mine once said — the trick is to NEVER LAND.

Ooops!  A little late in finding this one!  My apologies Omcasey. 
Yes, this place really does have a feeling of "home".  And yes, you're 100% correct... as usual   

I basically saw this thread and was ABOUT to reply when I noticed I already did!

My reasons have changed over the years.  They started with me wanting to do/try something which people would consider "more advanced" (oh yes, I had a big ego [some might say I still do!  haha] ).  I try to be a catalyst for others to find their reason now. 

The new place I find myself in spiritually is one of confusion really... confusion over where I feel I've taken myself in the short term (say... year or two?).  I actually find myself, once again at that juncture.  Not exactly liking what I see of myself here though... but meh, I digress.  All of awareness is a juncture really. 

[floriferous]

I've also come to something of an impasse in my spiritual direction.

I personally think the answer to my original question is ultimately the same for everyone. At the core we want to be happy. Infact every action we take in life is towards a goal of happiness. What we spend our whole lives searching for. When are we going to realize we can't find it in anything objective? If we could then why are we still searching for it? We are not very good this.

I consider myself to be a very even keel person who is generally happy but tuning into myself more i realized there is a subtle undercurrent of unhappiness constantly present within me (maybe for you too?)Whether its anxiety over money, family or whatever. Its there. And once one issue is resolved a new one replaces it.

Seeking happiness in the external never lasts. Its the nature of duality. We buy a new TV. Its exciting to begin with then it becomes normal again so we look for happiness in the next thing and so on and so on.

But i also found this true of OBEs. The happiness wears off. But i thought OBEs were internal experiences not external.

But what if they're not? The mind/ego is a complex thing. Most of all the ego wants to survive and if your happiness is the cost of its survival then so be it. Like the stress you feel when your job is in jeopardy. Ego thinks 'where will the money now come from for the house and the food to keep me safe? I'm going to make this body feel stressed so that it acts on this now. I must survive'. Thats why if you want to do a tightrope walk and your legs go to jelly at the last moment. The ego makes it happen to protect itself. Its not actually actually interested in you. Just self preservation.

I pondered how much we think we are in control of our bodies and minds. We think we have control but ultimately its not that much. You don't control anything to do with how your body is maintained. Creation of new cells, antibodies,  regulating your hypothalamus. Anything. Your body does it all for you. If your body handed you the reins for the day you wouldn't know what to do. It does it all for you. We also think we think all our thoughts yet we have little ability to control them when we try. It feels more like we only add additional thoughts to the ones that automatically arise. We don't control the flow of emotions. They dictate to us.The one thing that makes us think we are in control is our motor functions. Thats about it. And if we believe karma creates our destiny then that is out of our hands too.

So if the mind/ego is not really me and neither is the body then who am I? Let me get out of its way and let it do its thing automatically so that I can see who I really am beyond it all.

So this got me looking closer into the ideas of self realization and the notion that the real self resides not just beyond the body but also beyond the mind. The mind is not to be trusted but we happily go into an OBE with it in control. But if the mind doesn't have my interests and happiness first and foremost then why would I trust it during an OBE? Is it feeding me lies to in some way protect itself? Unclear but I certainly don't trust something that willfully makes me unhappy for its own gain. You wouldnt respect those qualities in another human so why do we with ego?

While things like medititaion. Lucid dreams, and OBEs are about experiencing levels of consciousness, self realization is about becoming Consciousness. The difference between having an experience which is fleeting, and just being the that I am of consciousness all the time. A baseline of happiness outside the scope of ego (or at least it moves to the background)

So I got reading on people like Ramana Maharshi and Robert Adams and i feel far more resonant that I ever did with anything before it spiritually speaking.

But of course reading and intellectualizing on it is still just the mind. Thats not going to help get me there. The mind is not going to help get you there becasue the goal is disidentification of ego and it doesn't want that.

So that is where I am at now. On the path of enlightenment. Who i am in this sentence is yet to become clear. But with every day passing it feels less and less like this body and mind.

Feel free to contradict. Your ego is probably dying to. Mine is too.

Excuse my spewing.

[Nameless]

Floriferuos - I wish I had 10 thumbs to up your spew.

[omcasey]

.

I personally think the answer to my original question is ultimately the same for everyone. At the core we want to be happy.

If growth = happiness then perhaps yes.. it is inherent in all life to grow.

Not everyone arrives in the same way at the OBE. In my case it was in this body's 44th year, following decades of a spiritually disciplined life.. Sri Ramana Maharshi was my own teacher, the practice of atma vichara ( self inquiry, the question "who am I" ) deeply ingrained into my days. Along with meditation, tratak, pranayama, savasana, brahmacarya. It was all this, and more not mentioned from which my awakening experience, which included the OBE was born. It is as anything that is naturally given now . . it is me and it is a part of the experience that is me. Asking why I want it is like asking why I am me. — when I just am.

No-one who reaches a state of expanded awareness ever just throws it away. Each time we go out, we come less and less back into the more usual narrow parameter. It can be so surprisingly subtle. Not everyone takes away from the experience, or cognizes within the experience to the same depth and degree. So I would ask, what IS the OBE to you, what are you integrating and absorbing of it. What impact is it having upon you? What are the alterations that are taking place? how are you changing?.... and what is the affect of this change on the moment and the world all around you.


For me it has been sublime.

I now experience a deeper level of connectivity, not only with and within myself - but with all that which surrounds me.

I will cut and paste.


*******

"People sometimes ask me what relevance the out of body experience has on "real" life.. Everyday, practical, physical reality Earth-life. I understand why the question is asked, and it is a good question to ask. Notably because there is indeed relevance. Coming into the clear awareness of it and thereby helping to extend it increasingly further out into the populous of this level of reality I feel to be of very great, current day importance.

The OBE affects each one uniquely. It impacts each one's personal awareness uniquely. I will share with you how my own personal awareness is being met and what new experiences I am now grounding—-bringing through to [ the range of possibility in this particular ] physical reality Earth life. Realizing that while grounding the new experiences with more consistent awareness, while very much [ also ] alive and IN the body, possibility extends into probability.

What began happening with me as immediately as with my first OBE, with the returning of my awareness to a spectrum beyond the physical, is that rote memory, the program running within my awareness which allowed me to experience 3D-human life [only] was being turned off. It is not a program that can synch with multi-dimensional reality experience. Which requires instead what might be called 'present attention' —-an undivided, unobstructed, steady flow of attention.

What transfer value effect does the event of this within the OBE have in the 3D Earth-field?.. Of what practical importance is it to the occupants of this level of reality? It is immense, in truth (which is the purpose of me beginning with it). To attempt an initial dive– In OBEs, with me there has been a life altering graduation of connectivity experienced — between 'subject' and 'object'. Between 'myself' and that which is collectively 'everything else'.

Considering the visual field, the point being "me" in the field and the totality of the field (which includes all occupants), gradually has come to be experienced –literally seen within my visual field– as a singularity. With what other vision would I be able to be in two or more places in two or more dimensional fields at once; such as the case with the OBE—my awareness, clearly alert within the physical body location (lying there in the bed) and simultaneously in this second location.

How does the new singularity–view affect the 3D field and my coming to meet it's many occupants with it in tow?.. You may already be coming to see it — a level of connectivity which is offering the awareness of there being no fundamental division between us— very little experience of perceived separation and thus the openness / openING through which our discrete energies do flow into and through one another. Sharing — unique expressions of love, compassion and understanding.

The data contained within the exchange informs us utterly. Giving probable and possible histories, current purpose/intents, desires, curiosities —all within an instant—we [may] know one another. We may be more appropriate with one another. If within the process we do not shut down we may find that being in this way inherently makes us less dual, less apt to position ourself against one another—less war–like. You are seeing it? —It's absolute importance.

Humanity, in my vision—( to fast forward )—is preparing in this way through individual representatives to re-enter a Larger awareness. A Galactic awareness. Reconnection within a Wider Scope of Reality with our Greater Relations, our patiently awaiting Star brothers and sisters. First we are upping ourselves. Setting down our hostility(ies). Ending the war– the era of "evolution through separation" otherwise known as the 'subject' / 'object' illusion.

This is the big picture."


Continue Reading

[floriferous]

.
If growth = happiness then perhaps yes.. it is inherent in all life to grow.

I personally don't think growth equals happiness. I think you could ask yourself is there anything behind growth that is something I desire more? If growth made you unhappy would you still pursue growth? If having OBEs made you unhappy would you still seek them out?

I'm back and forth on the idea of humans need for growth and evolution. Xanth also eluded to it in this thread. I have always gone along with the idea but I feel partly because it feels like its considered a spiritual constant. The idea of..."Yes of course we are here to grow and evolve. Everyone says it." But what if that's not true? What if its something that is so often repeated we have taken it as fact. I'm going to play devils advocate and exchange this spiritual constant for another - The idea of we are all One. Feels like it something spiritual people say so we just accept it as truth.

If hypothetically we do accept it then we are whole and already complete. There is nothing to grow or evolve into. So this plays back into advaita vedanta. If we already whole then there is nothing to do, nowhere to go, nothing to think. Just be. I suppose this then raises the question well then why are we here if it's not to grow? It could be a number of things. It could be nothing.

I dont doubt you have lots of profound experiences. They make for an exciting read. But I too have had many over the years. It's just I'm am starting to question mine.

.
No-one who reaches a state of expanded awareness ever just throws it away.

I personally disagree. Myself aside for a moment, if you look to somelike Papaji, one of Ramana's disciples, he was having unbelievable expanded awareness experiences communing with Krishna prior to Ramana showing him the path of advaita vedanta. He gave it up and ultimately followed the path of self-realization.

I suppose ultimately none of this matters particularly. Everyone is just following the path that resonates with them. I don't think anyone's right or wrong.

[LightBeam]

The idea of..."Yes of course we are here to grow and evolve. Everyone says it." But what if that's not true? The idea of we are all One. Feels like it something spiritual people say so we just accept it as truth.

A lot of people say it because they feel it, not because they theorize it. I have strong knowing of it, just knowing which I cant explain, ever since I was 5 years old before reading any books or anyone talking about it. I can clearly see patterns of growth especially after going through intense challenges not only for myself, other people I observe but for the world as a mass consciousness. I have also felt the oneness during several APs that is indescribable and those who had not had a chance while in character to experience it will never understand until they experience it, so they may read about it but they will always question it simply because they have not walked in these shoes. You see then how important experience is.  If this exists for me and I have experienced it then it is within the multiverse available for anyone. But while beliefs/thoughts/expectations can take you to the highest heaven, they can also take you to the lowest hell.
Now, we cant experience it all in one lifetime. It is necessary for a spirit to dress itself with many characters in order to gain as much experience and gain knowledge. The multiverse is like a book, everything exists and it depends which page will you turn to submerge yourself in that experience. Right now we have opened this page where we are, but you see all pages are always present, we just experience events as leaner here, while on the bigger scale everything exists here and now, and because of all these pages of experiences, is the Source (all that is) with such knowledge. If you say well the Source is all knowledgeable and perfect, why does it need experiences anymore. Well, you are looking though a time/space perspective again. The book will always exist and so will all events always be in motion that are timeless and spaceless. In a way, every single moment of existence is ALWAYS happening. there is no past present and future not only here but everywhere in the multiverse. We only perceive it as leaner due to the restrictions set up here for a purpose again. All probabilities of each character already exist in this book, but again, this book exists and can not be destroyed. Every moment of every event of every point of consciousness is happening without time and space. I also believe that new pages are written in this book and the Source is in a state of becoming. It expands even more, as perfection and expansion is limitless, so are our experiences, and so on for infinity.

Now on a different note, DURING challenges, I have always questioned the order and the purpose of suffering, I was angry and wanted to blame some higher power how in their right mind they can put spirits through such hardship. It was not until after the challenges had resolved when I was able to see clearly again, be happy again and I saw clearly the reasons these things happened to me. I clearly saw the lessons and I felt wiser. Many people say that wisdom comes with experience and it IS because they have witnessed it and felt, not because they read it somewhere. Some people may go angry at the circumstances and not being able to find answers because their ego is preventing them from admitting their own faults and they seek to blame something or someone else. But this is normal for human characters. We can not understand it all while bound here and this is ok. If we accept that there is no higher purpose of our existence then we have to accept that everything is random in this multiverse and there is no order. I myself am seeing this order and purpose clearly, but every character is different depending on what circumstances and challenges they had set up for themselves. And yes, while in character even that fact is unknown, but of course there is a good reason for it.


Here is one of my favorite quotes. I have witnessed it as true for myself time after time.
"When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change"

[Batgirl]

I really love this discussion here, and i love the quote you posted LightBeam, it is one of my favorite ones too.

It feels like many people find themselves at crossroads throughout these times right now, me too.
I love transformation though; sometimes I feel I thrive so much in difficult times that i wonder if i am a little bit masochistic . It is sort of a warrior spirit that shows up when life hurts, when i need to see that i have been wrong, that i messed up, or that something precious is over and i need to let go of something or someone. And even if i realize that i don't understand anything, that i feel confused and i don't know what's next. Mostly i feel quite serene in the face of pain and it was this year that i discovered that it is for the love of transformation. That is how i like to look at it because this quote is like a life style for me  "When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change"

Please excuse my simple English, i am not a native English speaker, i hope i make sense.

I personally do not care anymore about enlightenment at all. It has always been a hoax for me, as i do not believe in a state of consciousness that one can reach and then you are there and ready like a baked cake. Because one can always go further, there is always more. And i also try not to lose myself too much in dwelling about what is right or wrong, what is ego and what is not. We live in duality and we will always have to deal with ego as well as with the paradox of life itself. Just like that we don't always know if we travel inside or outside, if it is mind or soul, if anything is good for anything or not...

Growth is not always automatically happiness, but life itself is not always happiness. Why we are here and what we are to do is quite mysterious. Somehow we have choice but somehow not too... what the heck... what does it mean? Are we all one or all separate? I believe it is great to ask this question and find out the answers by experience, i recommend to really contemplate hard on this question. The potential answer is in no book and is no thought.

I so love this question you asked floriferous, thank you for asking it. I enjoyed reading all of this and responding too. Who cares if our egos answer, i believe we are allowed to simply enjoy a good discussion as we are.

In the end, for me, it comes down to WHAT I FEEL. And man, exploring consciousness makes me feel sooooo dang passionate that i can hardly stand it!!! The 'why' does not matter so much. It is like asking an artist why he paints. The writer writes because he has something to say. The bird sings because it has a song. I also feel how much joy i get from supporting other people through what i experienced. So i do that. I believe there is not much more to it... honesty, honor, humility, just doing our best. The best we know is good enough combined with a little bit of courage to stand behind our actions and correct something if we have to. These sort of things feel really good. Doing what we know that needs to be done. deep down we know.

And then we have chocolate croissant and cappuccino for breakfast, spend quality time with loved ones, in nature, enjoying what can be enjoyed, no?

I want to add that I do not try to play down the feelings of anyone. I really value everything that has been said and i know i like to sound preachy, that's just me

I would just like to point to the simplicity of things and ask: why not just do what feels right? That does not mean that one should watch TV all day long, because many times the things that feel right are not the easiest. It might not make us happy to take on the task while we are at it but once it is achieved it does make us happy, stronger, more authentic, more real and if there is a thing like karma, maybe we worked a bit towards transforming it into medicine.