OOBE and Fear P.1

[Loki999]

Astral Projection brings out many emotions in people who experiences it or who seek the experiences. Ecstasy, joy, wonderment and excitement are all part of the OOBE experiences. One feeling stands out above the rest when it comes to astral projection and that is fear. Fear is the most powerful of all emotions and the most intriguing. In this first of a two part series on fear and out of body experiences i will discuss the aspects of fear and what causes that fear and later will post the second part of this series on how to possibly remedy the fear. Off of the forum members reply's, and or insights on this issue of fear. Fear can be a major stumbling block when practicing astral projection, a recent example would be that i had recently induced the vibrations and sleep paralysis all was going great until i heard some disembodied voices aka(astral noise) say there he is .... hes on the bed... GET HIM after this audio illusion my psyche could no longer take that risk and i wiggled my big toe, thus terminating what would have been other wise a successful experience. Now im not the kind of person that is easily feared several tours of duty in Afghanistan can attest to that! But the fear that can broil up during the OOBE experiences will send anyone to the physical plane in a hurry. The fears of astral projection seem to come in two categories. One is the fear of the unknown and the other is the actual experiences encountered while out of body. The unknown factors seem to involve issue out side of the projectors control, such as will i be possessed, will i not be able to return to my body ect. These are legitimate fears for a novice projector, but are unfounded in the literature and just the facts. You cant get possessed because there's nothing to possess you and if one believes in this probably should not be astral projecting to start with because the quote occult practice of astral projection conflicts with there most likely evangelicalism beliefs they hold. And this brings up another point of fear and OOBE the belief constructs of people thinking there are demons or angels out there to somehow influence them, is completely un-true angels are part of the mythology of the near east and demons are the helpful spirits of Greek mythology otherwise known as deamans. Both have been twisted by Christianity into somthing that is not even metaphysically possible out side of that belief construct. Ive never encountered anything like an angel and some things most certainly seemed like demons but what is a demon any way surly its not everything negative wasp and spiders in the physical world invoke negative feelings but there's nothing demonic or evil about them. The belief construct that provokes fear in the would be projector always follows those same lines of there's Satan out there to temp me while out of body or somehow and evil spirit is going to get in my body while im out and control me. These are people who were raised in that sort of religious environment that teaches that Halloween is the devils birthday while making assumptions entirely born out of ignorance. Although i wont doubt the reality of even a hint of an upbringing of these sorts will induce fear in the would be projector, but the only way around this ridiculousness type of fear is do away with ones world view because astral projection is nothing different than a type of meditation and completely natural. Now i know it is easier said than done but maybe if one suffers from these sorts of fear they should reconsider their whole dabbling in astral projection to begin with and pray to the angels or what ever imaginary being they think is real and watching over them.
Now on to the real fear that any veteran astral projector is aware of. First is the simple fear of the dark/unknown this i feel every time i project or attempt too, it is a natural gut instinct of the unknown that brings this feeling into us. Sometimes i find that its most prevalent in the near time zone but also can be strongly encountered in the astral this fear i accept as part of the experience because it seems to give astral projection a sense of realism and authenticity, but is most encountered when trying to project at night naturally but never seems to really hurt the quality of experience or anything like that.
Astral Noise is the big one this phenomena of the pre-exit stage always is what gets me sometimes its just background noise that is easy to ignore but other times like the mentioned above can be highly distracting. Astral Noise should be called real time zone noise because its never encountered in the astral does seem to bubble up from the sub conciseness, typically having a low quality sound to it but at times can seem very real. The various sounds that i have experienced have been from the mundane of people walking around in my house opening and closing doors often times taken on the sound of my family members voices in a muddled and distant tone. These are easy to get around because at the time i just assume i am hearing actual noise going around around me thus nothing to worry about, its not till after i snap out of it a realize that im alone in the house that proves it was in fact astral noise. Others have been buzzing sounds or beeping sounds usually no big deal, but the ones that always get to me are the demonic sounding voices and again i don't believe in demons but lets just say the threatening voices and sounds that really get to me most of the time i get around these because i can recognize them for what they are. The astral noise that always gets me is the voice of someone i know coming up behind me and yelling wake up or come here or a funny example would be the time i heard my brother say there something on your head which promptly caused me to wake up disappointingly to make sure there was nothing on my head. These i find almost impossible to get around because how do i know they aren't really yelling at me, sometimes its hard to tell the difference from astral noise and real environmental noise. If the fire alarm goes off are you going to assume its astral noise and ignore it although it would most likely wake you up, but point in fact.
The fear that ive found with astral noise is never the noise that i really fear but that the source of the noise will somehow show its self. This is were negs come in ive had few neg experiences but they seem very much related to the astral noise and the idea of the blood grueling moan could show its self as something as ugly and disturbing as the sound always creates fear in my experience. I would disagree that negative feeling and emotions will create the negs, they seem to pop up randomly, although i would say the poor or different vision in astral sight can be alot to blame for neg sightings, sometimes the view is warped and blurry which could create some confusion that something is there. Ive encountered negs most in the astral planes i could say that the denizens for the most part of the astral planes are negs people that on closer inspection are nothing but a rotting shell ect. But again this may be largely brought on by the unknown and bizarre worlds that make up the astral planes but negs seem to be entirely negative and so does astral noise. I wonder if when learning to astral project one should not even be told about negs or astral noise in the hope they would never manifest but nonetheless i imagine they would. The other part of fear and astral projection is the environment itself the real-time zone seems to always be negative but in a sort of empty way. The astral can be very negative although mostly empty also i wonder how much of this is just unfamiliar surroundings and being alone, one could only imagine the negative and lonely experience mars would be if one were there all by there self.                                       

[Loki999]

Anyone care to comment

[Egar]

that wall of text killed my brain, could you add more paragraph please?

[klabs1976]

The unknown factors seem to involve issue out side of the projectors control, such as will i be possessed, will i not be able to return to my body ect. These are legitimate fears for a novice projector, but are unfounded in the literature and just the facts. You cant get possessed because there's nothing to possess you and if one believes in this probably should not be astral projecting to start with because the quote occult practice of astral projection conflicts with there most likely evangelicalism beliefs they hold. And this brings up another point of fear and OOBE the belief constructs of people thinking there are demons or angels out there to somehow influence them, is completely un-true angels are part of the mythology of the near east and demons are the helpful spirits of Greek mythology otherwise known as deamans. Both have been twisted by Christianity into somthing that is not even metaphysically possible out side of that belief construct. Ive never encountered anything like an angel and some things most certainly seemed like demons but what is a demon any way surly its not everything negative wasp and spiders in the physical world invoke negative feelings but there's nothing demonic or evil about them.                                    

With all due respect, I totally disagree with your comment about demons. Just because you haven't seen them doesn't mean that they don't exist. There are a lot of advanced projectors like Robert Bruce, clairvoyance physics, and great yogis confirm their existence.

It is very selfish thought to reject their existence based on your sole experience. They do exist in different forms and in different realms (including astral plane). Some have good intentions and some have bad intentions, some are powerful and some are not. I have personally been attacked in various occasions. You can say these are all in my head. If we talk about the ultimate truth, sure they are all in my head, but this all existence is a collective creation of our minds, and so your existence is also in my head. But at the conventional truth level, demons and negative entities do exist as much as you exist.
Can these demons harm you? They can...the chances are low...demons have their own agenda and I don't think they have any interest in human projectors because we are not important. You will however gain their attention if you start developing certain powers.

IMO, demonic possessions are not linked to AP/OBE instead its linked to someone's bad karma. I really recommend to people stay away from OBE/AP if they are mentally weak, physchologically not stable, who had an abusive childhood, or who have history of demonic possession in their family.

OBE/AP can be great help spiritually but one needs to know what he is doing.
I practice Buddhism and in my belief we practice loving kindness to all sentinent beings including demons and all other negative entities. When I am attacked by any spirit, I practice compassion. Please do not harm any spirits and wish them well as they suffer more than you are and they do not know any better...  And remember, true compassion is your only protection!

[astraladdict]

Maybe half of a part 1 would be better on the eyes 

[schockstuhh]

I'll be honest, I only read half of your post because I have math homework to do, and this forum always gets me major sidetracked lol. But, I agree with a lot of what you said in the first half esp. on the christian view of angels and demons; however, i do not think any such entities do not exist at all. Entities that guide others may simply be entities on other planes with good intentions and may have been misinterpreted as christian "angels". Chances are there are "lower level" beings that exist on other planes with bad intentions as well.

As for the issue of possession, I suggest you read this post. Killa Rican talks about his experience with it.
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_psychic_and_paranormal/interview_with_an_exorcist-t33130.0.html;msg272942#msg272942

[Jilt]

After 15 years of projecting I've gone through all these fears/negative experiences and agree it would be helpful to know ahead of time that many others have experienced the same (especially the audibles when separating).

I agree with others here that negative entities do exist on some level, probably as thought forms, but they can't do you any real harm and I've had good luck either getting mad at them (first response) and now sending them compassion while also forcefully telling them to leave me alone which generally works. I rarely run into anything negative now unless I hang out too long in F1 (dimension close to the body) where I think they tend to linger.

As far as helpful entities in F1, I was having trouble getting out this morning with my usual rope technique and I felt my ankles being gently grabbed and was lifted out that way. First time that's happened. Nice!

[Summerlander]

With all due respect, I totally disagree with your comment about demons. Just because you haven't seen them doesn't mean that they don't exist. There are a lot of advanced projectors like Robert Bruce, clairvoyance physics, and great yogis confirm their existence.

with all due respect, I totally disagree with your reply as I've seen them and I DON'T believe in them.  That's my subjective approach and drawn conclusion.  I've pretty much proved to myself that they don't exist and don't ask me how because I've already posted examples so many times.  They don't exist!  There is no real confirmation that such things exist apart from the word of others saying that they do because they totally believe in what they experience to be true.  Just because someone has a book published doesn't make them advanced.  In fact, you will find that a lot more newbies rather than experienced individuals have encounters with so-called demons.  Others may have adopted the titles of "gurus", "great yogis", "clairvoyants" but let me tell you something - to me they are just opinionated people who are not immune to bias, and, some of them have ulterior motives (especially the ones who publish books about "self-defence" for personal gain)!!

It is very selfish thought to reject their existence based on your sole experience.

Selfish?  How so? Hey, Einestein, how selfish of you to spread your ideas about the nature of reality based on your calculations!! 

How do you draw your own conclusions?  By what others say and write or by what you experience and the experimentation you do?  If you say by what others say and write then I rest my case and I'm out of here.

Can these demons harm you? They can...the chances are low

They can't.  They are just lucid nightmares.  Nothing more.  If demons really existed by the way, they would be interested in projectors...isn't their goal to get as many souls on the side of Satan?  It's all poppycock anyway! 

Also, if you say that I haven't experienced anything of the sort, I beg to differ!  I have experienced certain phenomena and it is not just Phase related!  What happened to me is what many people would call "possession", "exorcism", "poltergeist activity" when I was a kid.  Despite this, I still think it is all in the mind and such things have a more mundane explanation:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_psychic_and_paranormal/i_have_possession_problems_please_help_me-t33948.0.html

IMO, demonic possessions are not linked to AP/OBE instead its linked to someone's bad karma. I really recommend to people stay away from OBE/AP if they are mentally weak, physchologically not stable, who had an abusive childhood, or who have history of demonic possession in their family.

I don't.  I recommend people to embrace OOBEs and lucid dreams especially if they are unstable and have some issues that need to be dealt with.  I am living proof that the Phase state can help you to strengthen your mind and evolve you as a conscious individual as it provides the perfect opportunities to deal with the ROOT of any problem.  After facing your nightmares unafraid you will never experience them again and you will never ever have to fear anything.  What you are advising here is for people to run away from OOBEs as quickly as possible with their tails between their legs.

OBE/AP can be great help spiritually but one needs to know what he is doing.

You can only find out about OOBEs by having them and exploring.  That's how you learn and how you will know.  You are definitely not going to know if you let your fears get in the way and avoid them altogether because you fear that the boogieman might come.

I practice Buddhism and in my belief we practice loving kindness to all sentinent beings including demons and all other negative entities. When I am attacked by any spirit, I practice compassion. Please do not harm any spirits and wish them well as they suffer more than you are and they do not know any better...  And remember, true compassion is your only protection!

If you practice Buddhism then you should know that demons have no existence except a subjective one.  Example:  Buddha defeated Mara by realising that he was a part of him, the last ounce of his ego!  The experience was purely psychological.  According to The Tibetan Book of the Dead (the Bardo Thodol), the deceased in the intermediate state may experience scores of demons which they stress have no existence but in the mind of the individual.  Once they realise this (that the demons are products of dissonant states of mind) they are free to move on.  You shot yourself in the foot there. 

And remember, true compassion is your only protection!

What protection?  So you are only compassionate in order to protect yourself?  You will be rid of demons once you stop focusing on them and you stand unafraid.  Free is he who does not worry about what might become of him and whatever happens, despite trying his best, he lives in complete acceptance.  Come whatever may.

[Lexy]

I hope you can please edit and stick some paragraphs in there so I can read it.


Anyway, judging from the demons don't exist response....why argue over it?
You can't convince someone who hasn't experienced a real enity that they exist
and you can't convince someone who has experienced entities that they are not real.

[Loki999]

Klabs1976 seems to vastly have misunderstood the point of this thread, the point was not about protection or anything actually bad happening but simply the irrational fears that prevent astral projection success. Summerlander truly hits the nail on the head with showing the faults in Klabs1976 argument and i congratulate Summerlander on this insight. It seems that Klabs1976 probably never has experienced an OBE or even a meditative state but is most likely some goofball who believes in the garbage that i posted a link to a video of the sort of junk that some spiritual/guru/conman pedal(astral projection is occult and the devil will get u excrement) Klabs1976 is so hung up on this idea of protection and keeping yourself safe in the Astral. SO let me ask you this if the Astral ect was really all that dangerous than wouldn't normal non lucid dream sleep be of greater danger than any lucid OBE just because of unawareness. IF Klabs1976 lived in the real world than every night someone goes to sleep they would be playing Russian roulette with their soul. All i can say is people like Klabs1976 are idiots and the ones responsible with ruining the chance of a rational and mainstream exploration of Astral Projection wouldn't it be nice if everyone practiced astral projection its fools like Klabs1976 who believe in demons or angels and holds to this belief in a dogmatic way just because such an such entity made them feel good/bad a spider gives me the creeps but is obviousness not a demon thanks Klabs1976 your a moron because you cant see the greater light of our reality without falling into cultural conditioned bovine excrement and thus conditioning your whole world view. Dont you think that in a state of astral projection being male/female human or even a biological creature no longer has any bearing to the greater reality that we a share.         

[c0sm0nautt]

Please
separate
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so
it's
readable

[klabs1976]

why are you guys so angry? wow...living with anger is not pleasent...if I were you I would forget about astral plane and focus on my hateful attitude first. How can you claim that you know the truth when you can't even stand the opposite view...If you cannot even stand to hear others' opinion, how would you know your view is the correct view?

I recommend everyone to do their own investigation and find the truth themselves. Don't take my word or others, especially the ones who cannot stand others' opinion because obvisouly those are the ones that are more likely to be delusional...

[Loki999]

Sorry than but i was never angry and no one else was plus i never said i knew the truth just whats not true

[schockstuhh]

Simply not believing in demons has proven effective for me so far. I've encountered a "grim reaper" looking entity, and I've been seeing the silhouette of a dark figure next to my bed once waking up in the middle of the night and once in an out of body experience. Surprisingly, I think I've learned to rid myself of fear and superstition of ghosts and demons and it's allowed me to go about my experiences with ease. Even if they were real and I did encounter one I doubt it would be able to affect me because I live fear free baby. Demons don't "phase" me. 

[Summerlander]

Grim reaper?  Wait!  Did you see this guy?   



He showed me a nursery environment and I saw a lot of kids playing as I hovered over their heads.  I tried my best to communicate with this being but all he could do was screech and whistle.  Also, he felt cold.


I wouldn't say it was a "demon" though.  Maybe the archetypal grim reaper that we share on a collective level, death personified, or...the spirit of Xmas future.  Scrooge didn't have any success in getting a word out of him either! 

[schockstuhh]

I saw something very similar. It was either a projection or a very very VERYYY vivid dream (although again, i'm learning they aren't all that different and may very much be the same in certain aspects), but have you ever seen Harry Potter? I was in a town environment very much like Godric's Hollow. If you haven't seen the movie, a quick google image search will prove sufficient. It was dark and eerie and I was walking on a street and the "reaper-like" entity was down the street. When I approached it, I couldn't quite depict what it's face looked like. It was definitely not a human face. It was hovering above the ground and seemed to be wearing a hooded cloak. Something tells me that I was communicating with it telepathically or it was communicating with me telepathically, but for some reason, whenever I end up back in the physical, I simply cannot remember any of the communication. Perhaps, our conversation is stored in my semi-conscious. Either way, I did not feel any "evil" in its presence. (I think we've talked about this before lol.) I remember watching a television show that before the "Black Death" or the Plague hit certain towns in Europe back in Medieval times, people sited "grim-reaper" like entities on the outskirts of their town. Maybe there's some reason behind this or maybe they were just scaring themselves

BUT TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION.. yeah, that looks pretty similar to what I saw.

[Summerlander]

I've seen Harry Potter.  I know what you mean!  That sounds cool!  Maybe these beings belong to a higher order of consciousness and they may be monitoring our development.  They have also been seen in NDEs (which to me is a traumatic entry into the Phase).

On the other hand, the hooded beings could be a product of collective symbolism.  We associate the reaper with death, transition, new beginning, reaping what you sow etc. - it could be representational of all those things and much more.  I think the Phase reality should be looked at not just in terms of appearance but also what it might represent.  It can convey so much more than physical reality because it is a lot less restricted, volatile and closer to an ideal reality if you ask me.

By the way, I just checked the general interpretation for "grim reaper" in Dream Moods:

"To see the grim reaper in your dream, signifies the negative, rejected aspects of your personality. It represents aspects of yourself that you have repressed. Alternatively, it symbolizes death. The dream may parallel an end to some situation, habit, or relationship in your waking life."

http://dreammoods.com/cgibin/dreamdictionarysearch.pl?method=exact&header=dreamsymbol&search=grim+reaper

[c0sm0nautt]

Eh, I don't buy into those cookie cutter dream symbol dictionaries. Symbolism is always so personal. Death in the tarot often signifies transformation.

[Summerlander]

Yes c0sm0nautt, you may say that, but, as I said, the interpretation is generalised.  And things are not always personal, I guarantee you.  If they were, cultures around the world would not display so many similarities.  This is something that Carl Jung came to realise and he was someone who studied dreams for most of his life.

Although most of our dreaming may be personal and tied to the events that happen in one's life, there is also an undeniable sharing of universal content.  The "grim reaper" is just one example.

[CFTraveler]

Symbolism is always so personal.

vs. 

Death in the tarot often signifies transformation.

[c0sm0nautt]

I agree there are archetypes but these archetypes have to be interpreted by the personality in question, i.e they are personal.

[Summerlander]

I agree.  A more accurate interpretation will always come from the dreamer but generalised interpretations can help one to look in the right direction and make possible associations. Anyway, although patterns seem to have been identified with these generalised interpretations, the whole thing is very much theoretical.