Reasons why OBE’s should NOT be feared.

[Anonymous]

I think I understand the theory but has anyone out there from this group really got the results they expected from OBE?

If they have please provide us with a reply what did you find who did you meet what did you learn that help you gain a better understanding on who you are and where you are going..

Some proof please would be appreciated, I find 99% of everyone in this field is either an academic (who read a lot about the subject) or experimenting with chemical substances like the beatles.. they may have  been great musicians but they were not high spirutual beings..or the assending ones.

This is only my view.

Now, who has done it |(OBE) who got good results, we would like to hear from you.

Regards NR

quote:Originally posted by James S

"The practice of OBE does not in itself attract the attention of negative type entities. The only thing to fear in the out-of-body environment is fear itself. Too much fear creates countless problems for a projector. If fear is a serious problem and cannot be controlled, and if it too easily grows into terror, a projector should not really be projecting. But as I've said before, a small amount of fear is healthy as it breeds caution.

It is highly unusual for projectors to encounter or to be seriously troubled by astral wildlife, especially by really strong negative spirit types. It is even more unusual for these to trouble a projector's physical/etheric body before, during or after a projection. However, there are ways to keep the negatives away and to protect the physical/etheric body during a projection, or even while just sleeping, if it becomes necessary. This may seem a little out of theme with the rest of the content of this book, but I feel I would be letting my readers down and leaving this book incomplete, if I did not offer at least some advice on what to do if things ever started going wrong."

- Robert Bruce, excerpt from Countermeasures and Wards

http://www.astralpulse.com/articles/robert/articles_43.htm

Greetings people,

I've started this post with the above quote to encapsulate something that I think a lot of people new to this site need to be made aware of  - that the astral realms in general are NOT dangerous places full of negative entities!

There seems to be a growing number of doomsayers who believe it to be their sworn duty to make sure every person new to projecting has been made more than abundantly aware of all the misery and torture that awaits them in the astral at the hands of the legions of demonic entities.

With regards to normal, natural OBEs this simply is not true.

Firstly, a very important concept to remember when traveling through the astral – what you look for is what you will get. One of the few rules in the astral is "like attracts like". If you go into the astral with an attitude that there are lots of negs around that you need to be careful of, guess what you're going to find?

"Positive and negative areas coexist within all subplanes and realms, holding each other dimensionally apart through natural energetic repulsion mechanisms.

This energetic filtering effect can often be perceived, during a projection, as a subtle gradient of light, as a gradual brightening or darkening, or as a heaviness or lightness......

.....Your will can override the natural energetic filtering mechanism, allowing you to go wherever you choose. Astral projectors will always naturally project to the astral level they are in tune with energetically, but they can move on from there into positive and negative areas with which they are not naturally in tune......

.....The majority of visible astral plane directions have a reasonably positive outcome. If a positive direction is taken and held, a projector will generally move into a progressively brighter and lighter area, into higher-level areas. The reverse usually will not happen by accident, although it can be brought about by a deliberate act of exploration.

   If travelers remain focused on what they are doing and have positive-oriented minds, they have very little to worry about in this respect. In practice, travelers wandering the astral planes at random will find themselves experiencing a great many varied and interesting environments. They will not come across any seriously negative areas in their travels unless they actively go looking for them. The underlying intentions and qualities of thought of astral travelers safeguard them from accidentally entering negative areas they are not in tune with energetically."

- excerpt from Robert Bruce's Astral Dynamics.

Ok, so now you should see that for the untrained, going headlong into the astral is not going to lead you into a world of hurt unless you are deliberately looking for it.

So what is this world of hurt that the fearful among us speak of?

"The lower astral sublanes (traditionally the ones to be avoided) appear to be areas where negative emotion, thought, and fantasy-generated energies have been collecting for a very long time. These areas are home to negative manifestations of the darker side of the human mind and imagination. The fringes of these areas are not dangerous, but are decidedly unpleasant. The very bad lower subplanes are dark, shadowy areas populated (more aptly polluted) with all kinds of demons, monsters, and nightmarish figures. The lowest of these dark areas could aptly be called hellish dimensional areas.

   If you find yourself in or near a negative area, the common-sense solution is to project away to a brighter area as soon as possible. The fastest way to move away is to strongly imagine somewhere nicer and use instant projection to shift there. Holding an image of the entrance structure firmly in mind and instantly projecting there will usually return you to the surface, without your getting lost or aborting the projection. If this does not work, fly straight up while using uplifting spiritual thoughts, prayer, or song to elevate consciousness. Fly toward the brightest area or spark of light that can be seen above or ahead. An upward direction will usually take a projector away from a negative area.

   Astral travelers need not pass through negative or lower astral subplanes to travel to more positive and higher astral levels. The negative areas in the astral planes are, in a way, energetically sideways to the normal planelike dimensional structure. It is quite difficult to project deliberately into a seriously bad lower subplane area-or to project into a seriously higher level or plane, for the very same reason. Energetic differences and the natural attraction and repulsion effects generally prohibit this from occurring accidentally. Every projector will have his or her own energetic limitations.

   The only cases I have come across where projectors have had seriously bad experiences with lower subplanes involved hallucinogenic drugs being used to precipitate out-of-body experiences. Drugs, while capable of causing out-of-body experiences, sidestep the required skills and abilities necessary for safe conscious-exit projection. This breaks many natural laws concerning projection while artificially overcoming many natural safeguards and barriers. Natural barriers are there to protect the novice from operating in dimensional areas they are not equipped to experience."

- excerpt from Robert Bruce's Astral Dynamics.

Without getting into the whole drug debate, the average astral traveler is going to find it pretty hard to get into trouble with negative entities through your average OBE.

One other important thing to remember here, if you do get stuck in an astral area that you can't handle, don't panic, just bail out! You don't have to stay, and events in the astral can't hurt you in the physical. Treat it like a bad dream. It really is that simple.

I know I've only drawn on Robert Bruce's investigations here to provide what I hope to be a more objective view for newcomers. This is not because I idolize him or follow him around like some messiah, but because he deliberately set out to demystify astral travel and put it into terms we can all make sense of. In books on metaphysical subjects, a straight talking no nonsense author is a rare gem! I also know Mr. Bruce is but one of many noted explorers in this field, but I don't have the documentation from other such explorers such as Robert Munroe or Bruce Moen to call on. Bruce Moen has posted on this site however, so a search for topics under his name should reveal some useful material.

I would invite any of our resident frequent flyers to add their information here as support for those who might possibly have fears in discovering that which is beyond our physical world.

Bottom line - relax, enjoy the ride, and let the experience be an enjoyable enriching one.


Regards,
James.

[jilola]

Somehow I feel confrontational tonight.

<Rant on>
I find it amazing that someone who quotes someone else stating that his experience is thuslike and that way immediately gets agreement and nobody questions the premise.
Has anyone stopped for a moment to analyze their experiences before accepting other people's experiences as their own truth?

Here's my beef. It's verifiable that on the astral planes one gets what one expects, wishes and wants. This is usually accepted in the case of  the beautiful, blissfull and divine experiences. But inexplicably this agreement gets denonced when someone reports an experience of tnhe opposite and the experience is thenceforth attriuted to some evil and negative entity whjo a)lives on th eastral and b) for some unknown reason finds projectors the ultimate prey whil at the same time describing astral wildlife as something that would be much easier prey. And there seems to be no purpose or goal to the actions of the negs.
Any strange or apparently hostile experience is immediately cast in the form of some entity ot another attacking and trying to a)posses us, b)leech of us or c)subvert us to some dark unfathomable purpose nobody can put into words.

The real reason why OBE should not be feared is the same we  don't fear ourselves. Respected, yes, but feared?

The comon belief is that there is a God or a Divine Good Being(henceforth DGB) that we are supposed to obey and strive for. Nobody can point such a being outsidce of us and everyone assumes there is an opposite. Good. But this DGB is assumed to be all-encompassing, all-knowing and all-whatnot in other words everything. But not this alleged neg crowd?
Should opne accept the fact that the negs are what we as individuals need and thus create for ourselves we would have to assume thst we have personal responsibility in the creation both our own reality and our own very being. A frightening thought so it has to be that these negs are independent of all that is good (god) and we have nothing at all to do with them. It's the big nasty boys who tease us-
<Rant off>

whew.

2cents & L&L
Jouni

[Necromancer]

The idea of no fear in the astral plane is a great concept; so why perpetuate the fear, why interject an underlying fear that something is out there that will get you. To banish the darkness or to diminish the light, whichever way you, you have lost even before you begin to fight. Even R. Bruce adds fuel and fans of flames of fear. Don't quote me as saying I'm a Bruce basher because I'm not, I like a lot of the techniques he teaches. It is some of the things he has said and put to writing. "Core Image Treatment Instructions:

Sometimes you'll see the neg's behind the core images, once core images have been ripped away. Astral snakes and spiders, often with ET type heads, are common. Don't be scared, they are ugly but they can't hurt you at this time. They are the ones vulnerable and exposed. Take advantage of this to get some payback. Call up all the anger and rage you can and slog it out; and you'll win every time."

If in a manner you rip out a positive aspect you would see the same thing. This goes back to
jilola
<Rant on>
"and b) for some unknown reason finds projectors the ultimate prey whil at the same time describing astral wildlife as something that would be much easier prey. And there seems to be no purpose or goal to the actions of the negs."

Someone that has a fear of snakes of spiders, and most people do, this kind of statement heightens their anxiety level. These creatures are not NEGS and serve a great purpose in astral life.

This quote from R. Bruce has a definite underlying note of fear
"Floating Core Images:

Negative energies generate strange patterns and faces and objects in the mind's eye, seen most clearly during meditation and pre-sleep, where the sight centre of the brain interprets neg energies as ugly or strange floating images. I have come to habitually attack anything strange or ugly-looking in my mind's eye, with my sword and torch.

Really; beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and distortion is a matter of perception, maybe some of us have a slower processor and it doesn't load the page fast enough. I mean give me a break, I walk in both universes the light and the dark and they are equal and balance. When in AP I do not see light, that is an illusion, and a reflection of others idea of good and evil. There is no darkness either, see the energy for what it is. One universe is as the other, interchangeable, it is what you have been made to believe gives form to good or evil. Question your self as to "is it black or is it white."

rakisn:

If you mean the results of a single journey, then very seldom, but in the life long path, yes. Even going to work I not sure what the day might bring, nothing is for sure, the future has it's course it depends if you stop to smell the roses.

If on the theory that in OBE's all things are of our own self-being, then what do you battling against, who will be the victor?

[Jenia_San]

ohh no...now that I read this,this only makes me want to go to the darker planes!
why?
I always enjoyed fighting in all games and stuff...
but the pain in a real fight is kinda bothering [!]
but in the astral real...[}:)]
I could just "come forth swords of thunder" and have fun slicing demons YAY []

[UnEeK]

Hi , im new here , i just got one question , so please answer it and please dont just say it isnt likely to happen or wouldnt happen or etc... , just please answer my question.. , ok , my question is , wat happens if u got killed in the astral world? , by a neg or something? , would u just go back to your pyhisical body wide awake? , or would u be totally dead? , would u be able to astral project again? , lol , guess its kinda lots of questions in 1 , please answer my questions , thankyou,[]

[James S]

Hi UnEeK, welcome to the forums []

Simple answer to your question - you can't be harmed or killed!

Whatever you may have heard or may have been told about the harm negs can cause you on the astral is simply scaremongering. Simply put, the only thing to fear is fear itsself.

Basic rule - NOTHING can harm you in the astral at all. Your astral body, like your spirit, is energy - its indestructable.

Also, unless you've decided to OBE while sitting in the middle of a busy road and a bus runs over you - you're astral body can never be separated from your physical.

If there's any percieved risk at all to your physical body, you'll be alerted, and just like waking up from a dream if you hear a loud noise, you'll return to your physical body. If anything scares you in the astral, you can return to your physical body straight away, and again, it will be just like waking up from a dream - no harm done.

Regards,
James.

[Frank]

quote:Originally posted by UnEeK

Hi , im new here , i just got one question , so please answer it and please dont just say it isnt likely to happen or wouldnt happen or etc... , just please answer my question.. , ok , my question is , wat happens if u got killed in the astral world? , by a neg or something? , would u just go back to your pyhisical body wide awake? , or would u be totally dead? , would u be able to astral project again? , lol , guess its kinda lots of questions in 1 , please answer my questions , thankyou,[]

You can't be killed it's as simple as that. There is no such thing as death. Everyone is as dead now as they will ever be.

Yours,
Frank

[James S]

"The practice of OBE does not in itself attract the attention of negative type entities. The only thing to fear in the out-of-body environment is fear itself. Too much fear creates countless problems for a projector. If fear is a serious problem and cannot be controlled, and if it too easily grows into terror, a projector should not really be projecting. But as I've said before, a small amount of fear is healthy as it breeds caution.

It is highly unusual for projectors to encounter or to be seriously troubled by astral wildlife, especially by really strong negative spirit types. It is even more unusual for these to trouble a projector's physical/etheric body before, during or after a projection. However, there are ways to keep the negatives away and to protect the physical/etheric body during a projection, or even while just sleeping, if it becomes necessary. This may seem a little out of theme with the rest of the content of this book, but I feel I would be letting my readers down and leaving this book incomplete, if I did not offer at least some advice on what to do if things ever started going wrong."

- Robert Bruce, excerpt from Countermeasures and Wards

http://www.astralpulse.com/articles/robert/articles_43.htm

Greetings people,

I've started this post with the above quote to encapsulate something that I think a lot of people new to this site need to be made aware of  - that the astral realms in general are NOT dangerous places full of negative entities!

There seems to be a growing number of doomsayers who believe it to be their sworn duty to make sure every person new to projecting has been made more than abundantly aware of all the misery and torture that awaits them in the astral at the hands of the legions of demonic entities.

With regards to normal, natural OBEs this simply is not true.

Firstly, a very important concept to remember when traveling through the astral – what you look for is what you will get. One of the few rules in the astral is "like attracts like". If you go into the astral with an attitude that there are lots of negs around that you need to be careful of, guess what you're going to find?

"Positive and negative areas coexist within all subplanes and realms, holding each other dimensionally apart through natural energetic repulsion mechanisms.

This energetic filtering effect can often be perceived, during a projection, as a subtle gradient of light, as a gradual brightening or darkening, or as a heaviness or lightness......

.....Your will can override the natural energetic filtering mechanism, allowing you to go wherever you choose. Astral projectors will always naturally project to the astral level they are in tune with energetically, but they can move on from there into positive and negative areas with which they are not naturally in tune......

.....The majority of visible astral plane directions have a reasonably positive outcome. If a positive direction is taken and held, a projector will generally move into a progressively brighter and lighter area, into higher-level areas. The reverse usually will not happen by accident, although it can be brought about by a deliberate act of exploration.

   If travelers remain focused on what they are doing and have positive-oriented minds, they have very little to worry about in this respect. In practice, travelers wandering the astral planes at random will find themselves experiencing a great many varied and interesting environments. They will not come across any seriously negative areas in their travels unless they actively go looking for them. The underlying intentions and qualities of thought of astral travelers safeguard them from accidentally entering negative areas they are not in tune with energetically."

- excerpt from Robert Bruce's Astral Dynamics.

Ok, so now you should see that for the untrained, going headlong into the astral is not going to lead you into a world of hurt unless you are deliberately looking for it.

So what is this world of hurt that the fearful among us speak of?

"The lower astral sublanes (traditionally the ones to be avoided) appear to be areas where negative emotion, thought, and fantasy-generated energies have been collecting for a very long time. These areas are home to negative manifestations of the darker side of the human mind and imagination. The fringes of these areas are not dangerous, but are decidedly unpleasant. The very bad lower subplanes are dark, shadowy areas populated (more aptly polluted) with all kinds of demons, monsters, and nightmarish figures. The lowest of these dark areas could aptly be called hellish dimensional areas.

   If you find yourself in or near a negative area, the common-sense solution is to project away to a brighter area as soon as possible. The fastest way to move away is to strongly imagine somewhere nicer and use instant projection to shift there. Holding an image of the entrance structure firmly in mind and instantly projecting there will usually return you to the surface, without your getting lost or aborting the projection. If this does not work, fly straight up while using uplifting spiritual thoughts, prayer, or song to elevate consciousness. Fly toward the brightest area or spark of light that can be seen above or ahead. An upward direction will usually take a projector away from a negative area.

   Astral travelers need not pass through negative or lower astral subplanes to travel to more positive and higher astral levels. The negative areas in the astral planes are, in a way, energetically sideways to the normal planelike dimensional structure. It is quite difficult to project deliberately into a seriously bad lower subplane area-or to project into a seriously higher level or plane, for the very same reason. Energetic differences and the natural attraction and repulsion effects generally prohibit this from occurring accidentally. Every projector will have his or her own energetic limitations.

   The only cases I have come across where projectors have had seriously bad experiences with lower subplanes involved hallucinogenic drugs being used to precipitate out-of-body experiences. Drugs, while capable of causing out-of-body experiences, sidestep the required skills and abilities necessary for safe conscious-exit projection. This breaks many natural laws concerning projection while artificially overcoming many natural safeguards and barriers. Natural barriers are there to protect the novice from operating in dimensional areas they are not equipped to experience."

- excerpt from Robert Bruce's Astral Dynamics.

Without getting into the whole drug debate, the average astral traveler is going to find it pretty hard to get into trouble with negative entities through your average OBE.

One other important thing to remember here, if you do get stuck in an astral area that you can't handle, don't panic, just bail out! You don't have to stay, and events in the astral can't hurt you in the physical. Treat it like a bad dream. It really is that simple.

I know I've only drawn on Robert Bruce's investigations here to provide what I hope to be a more objective view for newcomers. This is not because I idolize him or follow him around like some messiah, but because he deliberately set out to demystify astral travel and put it into terms we can all make sense of. In books on metaphysical subjects, a straight talking no nonsense author is a rare gem! I also know Mr. Bruce is but one of many noted explorers in this field, but I don't have the documentation from other such explorers such as Robert Munroe or Bruce Moen to call on. Bruce Moen has posted on this site however, so a search for topics under his name should reveal some useful material.

I would invite any of our resident frequent flyers to add their information here as support for those who might possibly have fears in discovering that which is beyond our physical world.

Bottom line - relax, enjoy the ride, and let the experience be an enjoyable enriching one.


Regards,
James.

[nwb]

i know you may not be able to be killed in the astral, but i believe you CAN be harmed, i was possessed in the astral and it seems Ive never been "un-possessed" , not to steer anyone away from astral projection, but i used to be able to wake up at 8 am every morning and stay up all day and not get tired, one night i was having a dream, just a simple dream, and in the dream i was opening a door, before i could open the door i felt something enter me, i woke up suddenly and felt my heart beat really fast and i seemed scared....for the next 2 days i was extremely tired and after that i couldn't wake up at 8 am anymore without being extremely tired, it has been this way for 2 years, and i still cant wake up before noon without being extremely tired all day....that is why i believe "something" is still inside of me from that day 2 years ago.....because of my inability to wake up in the mornings.....let me warn you that i am hard headed and any attempts to convince me that this did not happen will surely fail, because i know what happened to me and i know how different i felt before i felt something possess me, and the way i feel now, after i felt possessed, so just to let you know that i wont change my mind no matter how hard anyone tries to tell me this didn't happen......any help tho about getting this thing out of me will be greatly appreciated.  I am willing to try anything.

[Nay]

You can't be harmed, period.  No one can be possessed, unless you give it that power.

IMO, the reason why people find themselves "possessed" is because they like the position of being the victim which in turn creates attention from others.  Not to mention a lot of people do not want to take responsibilities for their actions and emotions.  

let me warn you that i am hard headed and any attempts to convince me that this did not happen will surely fail, because i know what happened to me and i know how different i felt before i felt something possess me, and the way i feel now, after i felt possessed, so just to let you know that i wont change my mind no matter how hard anyone tries to tell me this didn't happen......any help tho about getting this thing out of me will be greatly appreciated. I am willing to try anything.

You have made your stance quite clear in this paragraph and that is you are not going to budge on the issue of possession.   Ok, that is your business, but you won't get my sympathy.  When you are ready to rid yourself of your inner demons then I'll be sympathetic.

It really is as simple as changing your mind set, period.   It is a shame that Robert as chosen to use people's fears in a such a way that is doing more harm than good.  Psychic self defense, IMO is nothing more than superstition.  For example salt baths...hehe.  If you are superstitious, I could tell you to get into a bath that is full of jello with a sprinkle of oatmeal and if you believe... you would "feel" cured.

If you feel so strongly about being possessed, I suggest you go to Robert's site.  They will feed your fear like no other place.   But I warn you, your fear will multiply and continue to get worse and not better.

[nwb]

i don't fear astral projection even tho i feel like i was possessed, i still don't fear it, and you saying its impossible changes nothing, it still happened, lately it seems that people say that everything that happens to me is impossible, go figure......its why i am weary about telling people the things that happen to me.

[Paola]

Another excellent book is Waldo Vieira's  'Projectiology'.
He has a foundation called the International Institute of Projectiology and Conscientiology in Brazil.  www.iipc.org