A key in getting rid of negative entities

[SpectralDragon]

quote:Originally posted by kiauma

And another thing Spectral Dragon,

You actually overcame these attacks by overcoming your fear, so now you actually seek these 'negs' out - and you are also saying that your experience of them has nothing to do with your intentions or perspective...

Think about what you are saying...

...

I told you I was helping a friend, and yes I am talking to you you are the only one talking about filters.

Like I said I was not afraid of negs. I didn't even know of them when I was first attacked. Call me a liar if you want but that's the fact of it.

Xander, that illusion is very evasive and the way most "enlightened" put it is very misleading. Yes, what we see with our eyes is not exactly what we should see, but things are still there regardless. Fear is very real, but it's not what we think it is in form.

[kiauma]

I told you I was helping a friend, and yes I am talking to you you are the only one talking about filters.

Actually Mick brought it up, if you will recall.

Like I said I was not afraid of negs. I didn't even know of them when I was first attacked. Call me a liar if you want but that's the fact of it.

Fear is an expression of a consciousness of peril.   As such, it does not cause anything, but is a symptom, a reaction.  If you did not feel fear, that is good, however this still does not remove your complicity.  The interaction is your complicity.  The conflict is an expression of your soul definition.  The astral is all about intent, and karma which is the consequence of intent.  As above, so below.  

You will notice in Robert Bruce's quote used in Dark Knight's sig that he never denies karma or self responsibility, only that he is recomending a different approach to self-responsibility.  You can no more deny your experience in the astral than seeing your own face in the mirror

Xander, that illusion is very evasive and the way most "enlightened" put it is very misleading. Yes, what we see with our eyes is not exactly what we should see, but things are still there regardless. Fear is very real, but it's not what we think it is in form.

You will pardon me if I answer this, as I feel you are obliquely still answering my point.

I never said things are not there.  I am saying it is us who makes them real, thus it is us who can banish them, which is where in essence I agree with Xander.

Also, as far as simply brushing aside all explanations with simply, 'no, it is a filter', you will simply have to do better.  Your statement explains nothing, counters nothing.  It is just, and I mean just, your opinion.

[SpectralDragon]

quote:Originally posted by kiauma

I told you I was helping a friend, and yes I am talking to you you are the only one talking about filters.

Actually Mick brought it up, if you will recall.

Like I said I was not afraid of negs. I didn't even know of them when I was first attacked. Call me a liar if you want but that's the fact of it.

Fear is an expression of a consciousness of peril.   As such, it does not cause anything, but is a symptom, a reaction.  If you did not feel fear, that is good, however this still does not remove your complicity.  The interaction is your complicity.  The conflict is an expression of your soul definition.  The astral is all about intent, and karma which is the consequence of intent.  As above, so below.  

You will notice in Robert Bruce's quote used in Dark Knight's sig that he never denies karma or self responsibility, only that he is recomending a different approach to self-responsibility.  You can no more deny your experience in the astral than seeing your own face in the mirror

Xander, that illusion is very evasive and the way most "enlightened" put it is very misleading. Yes, what we see with our eyes is not exactly what we should see, but things are still there regardless. Fear is very real, but it's not what we think it is in form.

You will pardon me if I answer this, as I feel you are obliquely still answering my point.

I never said things are not there.  I am saying it is us who makes them real, thus it is us who can banish them, which is where in essence I agree with Xander.

Also, as far as simply brushing aside all explanations with simply, 'no, it is a filter', you will simply have to do better.  Your statement explains nothing, counters nothing.  It is just, and I mean just, your opinion.

Robert Bruce also said these things are very real. In that same quote, I might add. That's why DK put that there.

quote:You will notice in Robert Bruce's quote used in Dark Knight's sig that he never denies karma or self responsibility, only that he is recomending a different approach to self-responsibility. You can no more deny your experience in the astral than seeing your own face in the mirror

I am not denying any of this except that earlier you said:

quote:Fear is an expression of a consciousness of peril. As such, it does not cause anything, but is a symptom, a reaction. If you did not feel fear, that is good, however this still does not remove your complicity. The interaction is your complicity. The conflict is an expression of your soul definition. The astral is all about intent, and karma which is the consequence of intent. As above, so below.

How can you say it's not real and then it is real? I know the difference between my conscious plane and the astral plane.

And how can you say there is no form to my argument when we are talking about something that is relative in meaning? what do any of us really know as a fact about that?

[kiauma]

How can you say it's not real and then it is real?

Please point to where I said they are not real.   Again, I am saying it is us who makes them real, thus it is us who can banish them.  

I know the difference between my conscious plane and the astral plane.

But you are still not connecting the power of your own intent over perception.   Through our outlook and other actions we can shape our karma, which shapes our experience.

And how can you say there is no form to my argument when we are talking about something that is relative in meaning? what do any of us really know as a fact about that?

So now you are agreeing with me?  That is what I have been trying to say all along, for if these things are relative, then to change our experience, we merely need to change our minds.

[SpectralDragon]

quote:Originally posted by kiauma

How can you say it's not real and then it is real?

Please point to where I said they are not real.   Again, I am saying it is us who makes them real, thus it is us who can banish them.  

I know the difference between my conscious plane and the astral plane.

But you are still not connecting the power of your own intent over perception.   Through our outlook and other actions we can shape our karma, which shapes our experience.

And how can you say there is no form to my argument when we are talking about something that is relative in meaning? what do any of us really know as a fact about that?

So now you are agreeing with me?  That is what I have been trying to say all along, for if these things are relative, then to change our experience, we merely need to change our minds.

I think the prblem with this argument is we are not trying to understand each other because we are not understanding the other's viewpoint. I say one thing, you say another, then we agree on something totally off subject... let me put mine in a different light.

First off, not all things are relevant in the sense that we think of them. They DO exist, but they don't exist in some of the ways we percieve them. We see a bird, however a snake see's a shade of gray. It still exists, us and the snake know what is there, but our perception of that object is different because of how it relates to us. You are saying that the astral plane AND EVERYTHING IN IT is created by us, but this is not true. The astral plane itself is created by us, but everything in that plane, like negs, function all on thier own.

You were saying, in the beggining of this topic, that we have to not think of some things and just accept them, and that to avoid negativity we have to ignore rational and go with our feelings?

quote:Negativity is passed by hooking the attention. This is why it is bad to argue. By repeatedly presenting your rationale against the negativity, it only gives an opening to work against. Are your morals just a rationale? True morality is natural, and does not need to be argued.

Education is the strongest recourse. Wisdom is knowledge of what cannot be directly known. Through habitual meditation we come to realize this, and center ourselves in our strength, without rationalizing.

you say that it is bad to argue. If you do not argue you do not gain the experience needed for your feelings to form and thus you do not learn. That is what I have been trying to tell you all along. That is also why DK said you have trapped yourself, for by ignoring you are in your own little world and bubble and nothing can get in to give you these learning experiences.

quote:Much damage is done by hooking the attention and overwriting a person's own thoughts, telling someone what they think and say, over their own thoughts and words. It is because of our own feelings of lack of control that we try to control others thoughts, others actions. We try to deny them, using devices like calling them 'Negs' or worse. This is a judgement, and a trap. We call it 'spiritual warfare' and project aggression onto the other, but by putting it into those terms we have revealed ourselves. It can no more be avoided than seeing our own face in the mirror

You say "overwriting another's own thoughts." This can only be done one of two ways. The first involves a case much like DK's in that the person is actually inside your head and manipulating the thoughts. The second is doing it "normally," either by talking so much the other does not get a chance to respond, or by tricking the other into thinking a certain way somehow. Either of these methods are not normally used in a normal argument and thus should not be feared in a casual argument like ours unless dealing with a psychopath, which brings me to the "it is because of our lack of control we try to control other's thoughts and emotions. Most people cannot truly go inside someone's head and physically control them. They can try to dictate things, and they can try to control, but they truly cannot. You say we try to deny that, and while some people DO try to do this with the "NEG" argument there are some cases out there where such psychic attachments have actually occured. The human mind and spirit is a wonderfull and complex thing that allows some of these things to go on.

quote:We do not need to judge others, only show discrimination and have faith in ourselves. If someone is harmful to us, then we should defend ourselves by resolving the situation or leaving. This does not mean the other person is 'bad', it means we have conflicting agendas. If someone wants to murder me then we have conflicting agendas, and the situation must be rectified - but that person may have very real reasons for wanting to murder me. On the other hand, I may want to murder someone, but again I have the choice to rectify the situation, or leave. If someone is just calling me names then that is about him, not me. Even if I propogated the situation, I have the power to resolve it or leave, and have it end there. One can never be aware of the larger karmik situation. We can only take care of ourselves the best we can, through true peace and compassion.

Think about what the world would be like if nobody judged another for a second. I see a man killing another and I do not judge him, thus I have no emotional ties to help the poor guy who is dying. Without my judgement, which is defined as putting something in it's place in your mind and determining the VALUE of it, then there is no substantial value to anything. Please take a look at the example I gave Child of the Forest:

quote:Scientist 1: Your theory on the universe is garbage.
Univ. Christian1: I know it is correct. Can you not feel the universe has a conscious?
Scientist 1: Conscious? and how many times has the universe talked to you today?
All: LOL
Scientist 2: Your theory on 2012 being the year of change is completely idiotic as well. Why should we believe we have to Change our ways? Science is the only truth to the universe.
Univ. Christian2: You should at least check it out, even by your thinking there is plenty of evidence that the 10th planet is...
Ccientist 1: tenth planet my @**, you christians just made that up

That was an example of a caring soul trying to help out people who would not listen. If you think the guy shouldn't care, what if those people were his direct family?

Now without being able to judge the value of what was going on, like the scientist, then everything would be really screwed up correct?

quote:I quite agree with your quotes from Robert Bruce, we simply look at it differently. I see in it the conviction to maintain discrimination and self-centeredness - our self, after all, is our most precious posession. We need not give away our peace even in conflict. I feel no need to subdue 'negative' forces, only be myself.

If we focused completely on self then what would happen to government? To forwarding the human race? to forwarding the human race spiritually? It wouldn't happen because everyone would worry about themselves. We have to help each other out. If we try to help other's out and try to remain peacefull then nothing would get done much like how this argument is not going anywhere. There must be emotions like anger and hate to exist in order for anything to move forward or even for the world to function at all. If adam and eve would not have felt the need to be curious and risk then we would not have these emotions, however it is my belief that god had planned this to happen from the start. Call it tough love if you will. Now when something tries to get at us we can give our all to survive instead of remaining peacefull, not caring, and being dead when some catastrophe happens. In truly peacefull states you are not focused on yourself at all because you are completely balanced, so now your attention focuses on watching what goes around you. The feelings called fear and hate still exist, but are exactly the same in intensity as love and compassion. You are not destined to stay this way however if you are to survive. You have to unbalance your emotions and make choices.
When you see someone dying on the ground then, and you are focused on self, then you would not help them when there is a possibility of you becoming harmed or killed. But in order for mankind to survive everyone must help one another. Otherwise when a large catastrophe stikes that requires ten people to work together to stop it everyone will be focused on self and nothing get's accomplished. So to say that self is more important is to say that humankind working as a whole does not exist. What I believe is important is moving forward. That is what is most important, and our beliefs and humanity is what causes that to happen. People can and have died for thier beliefs so that everything around them can move forward. so our beliefs and humanity is our most important possession even above ourselves. (whew typing break[8])
EX: Preserving the life of a wife while she is carrying child. New life is such a bueatifull thing that almost anything is worth it to save it when it is in trouble.

I am not saying you are a person who does not have value in other's I am just listing examples and reasonings kiauma. [] Hopefully you did not take offense. This also goes for anyone else.

quote:I think it is a grave and paranoid error to see ourselves as helpless victims in the face of an evil external force over which we have no control and against which we must be constantly vigilant.

All I am saying is because of the principle that our beliefs manifest on the other side, perhaps the best defense is actually being less defensive.

Amazing how much emotion is sparked when it is suggested that people ARE responsible for themselves, how they look at the world, and what happens to them.

We DO have to take care in knowing what to look for in case these forces come forward.

Our beliefs do manifest on the other side in the form of areas of a plane of existence where they manifest. They don't take form in all areas. True, if you AP without thinking of where you are going you will, as a general rule, go there. But that does not explain a situation like DK is in.
In DK's situation she has someone trying to break her down emotionally and drain her energy so she cannot fight back. In order to fight back you have to have this energy. Most people on this forum cannot realize that. There is such thing as a helpless situation in the face of evil. I have experienced it myself. This is why humankind is tied together so that we do not have to be alone in such a situation. You say the best defense is being less defensive when dealing with negs? have you ever encountered a Full Demon? I have, if you bring down your defenses then you will lose. You open yourself up to his will. It's the same thing in her situation. She opens up to his will, he wins. That man IS a demon. Hell he even feels like one on the astral plane.
You are saying some of us try to say we are not responsible for ourselves? Hell, I don't like thinking "I could have helped this person, but because of my ways I did not even though I had the power to. I am too peacefull and stuff." By going into situations like that you learn about responsibility. I agree there are people who are not responsible in the world. But there are several levels of self responsibility. Hell, I don't clean my room in my apartment. But does that make me an irresponsible person overall? By saying that we should focus on helping others does that mean I am saying we should put aside responsibility for our actions? If I go out and help people am I irresponsible? Or am I more responsible? If I focus more on my own life and make myself balanced and make myself feel peacefull, and yet when it comes time to help other's I do not am I more responsible than the one who does? Am I responsible for my actions when I do not help other's when I had the power to? So many levels of responsibility here. What is balanced when it comes to responsibility?If I focus on bettering myself AND helping others do the same is that balanced or not?

These kinds of things come to mind when you say such things. I also wonder about this thing you said when you mentioned this earlier;

quote:I quite agree with your quotes from Robert Bruce, we simply look at it differently. I see in it the conviction to maintain discrimination and self-centeredness - our self, after all, is our most precious posession. We need not give away our peace even in conflict. I feel no need to subdue 'negative' forces, only be myself.

So you try not give out negative emotions and you believe in responsibility of self. You also think negativity should be ignored. We should take care of problems in a manner that does not bring out negativity. Our own selves are the most important. We should try to stay at peace even in conflict.
This brings this situation to my mind: DK's situation. She has this guy using CRI (controlled remote influencing) which means he is INSIDE her head. If she tries to stay at peace she will not have the anger, and thus not have the drive to battle him. She has not the energy in her body to battle him after a while because it has been drained from her. This causes less balance in her system. The person attacking her likes to bring out negative emotions and is a negative person in general. Since I(I being DK) am a very nice person I don't like to get other's involved but have no choice I call out for help on a forum where people believe in the above. They tell her that she must find strength in herself, when all of her strength has been run dry over the past 5.5 years.

geez oh peets am I making this too long. Stop now. Continue after I hear your comments on this[].

[kiauma]

I think the prblem with this argument is we are not trying to understand each other because we are not understanding the other's viewpoint. I say one thing, you say another, then we agree on something totally off subject...

All of your examples are extreme examples.  They assume an extreme position from myself, exaggerated from my stated position, then go on to illustrate an extreme situation which advantageously illustrates your point.  Also, the situations you discuss I would disagree on origin in context - but that is the wisdom of Robert Bruce's approach from his quote in DKs sig, it bypasses defense by bypassing judgement.

I would agree we have conflicting agendas, which makes true communication difficult, and I appreciate your reaching out to me in such detail.  I will do my best to understand your position, but I cannot help doing so from my own.  We may find tht I simply cannot help you, which is regretable but okay.

First off, not all things are relevant in the sense that we think of them.

I have already agreed with you on that point.  However, it is precisely from this principle that I have derived my understanding of the astral.

They DO exist, but they don't exist in some of the ways we percieve them.

That is exactly what I have been saying.  This is the very definition of the relative perspective.

You are saying that the astral plane AND EVERYTHING IN IT is created by us, but this is not true.

Please point to where I say this.

The astral plane itself is created by us, but everything in that plane, like negs, function all on thier own.

I do not know who created the astral plane - I would hazard to guess it was God.  Yes, all forms manifested can be said to 'exist'.

You were saying, in the beggining of this topic, that we have to not think of some things and just accept them, and that to avoid negativity we have to ignore rational and go with our feelings?

Yes and no.  The relevant answer is no.

quote:Negativity is passed by hooking the attention. This is why it is bad to argue. By repeatedly presenting your rationale against the negativity, it only gives an opening to work against. Are your morals just a rationale? True morality is natural, and does not need to be argued.

Education is the strongest recourse. Wisdom is knowledge of what cannot be directly known. Through habitual meditation we come to realize this, and center ourselves in our strength, without rationalizing.

you say that it is bad to argue. If you do not argue you do not gain the experience needed for your feelings to form and thus you do not learn. That is what I have been trying to tell you all along. That is also why DK said you have trapped yourself, for by ignoring you are in your own little world and bubble and nothing can get in to give you these learning experiences.

Earlier in this thread I defined 'argue' as mutual confrontational beligerance.  I see nothing but aggresiveness and attempted controlling in mutual confrontational beligerance.   I suggested that what you meant by 'argue' was probably what I thought of as discussion.  

One of my mottos is 'Let the inside out and the outside in.'  I believe we all function as mirrors for each other by our interactions, collectively defining ourselves and each other in discovery and growth.  Even in our acts of violence and negativity we can learn about ourselves, which always points the way to our improvement, if we look for it.

Hopefully this dispels the idea you have that I prefer to 'live in a bubble', wherever that came from.

quote:Much damage is done by hooking the attention and overwriting a person's own thoughts, telling someone what they think and say, over their own thoughts and words. It is because of our own feelings of lack of control that we try to control others thoughts, others actions. We try to deny them, using devices like calling them 'Negs' or worse. This is a judgement, and a trap. We call it 'spiritual warfare' and project aggression onto the other, but by putting it into those terms we have revealed ourselves. It can no more be avoided than seeing our own face in the mirror.

You say "overwriting another's own thoughts." This can only be done one of two ways. The first involves a case much like DK's in that the person is actually inside your head and manipulating the thoughts.

There are two extant theories concerning DK's situation.  The first is the majority, that nothing in the astral can harm us without some sort of permission or invitation from us.  The second is that we are helpless victims who cannot do anything about it.

It seems the first answer is voiced by those who are free of it and travel unimpeded.  The second is voiced by that minority who at some point have felt helpless under it's influence.

DK is apparently your friend, and I respect that, but central to this debate is the principle of causal intent.   Is it real or not?   Either a person is centered in self-responsibility, or they are not.  

DK obviously feels under the influence of powers she cannot control, and I am in no position to judge that.  However, I will make the observation of noting just what the definition of a 'Neg' is - roughly, an entity or force of destructive intent to your person or psyche.  If DK wants to be released form the forces of negativity, why does she hold so tenaciously to her negative outlook and demeaner?  I mean, look at her sig, look at her posts, look at her nick...  DK is an armed camp.   Isn't it obvious that this only reinforces the attacking negativity?  After all, if I were a demon, I would consider victory being converting my foe to my negative perspective.

She is convinced anger is her great ally - but I question that.  Frankly, I feel anger, thus negativity, is controlling her.  THAT is the demon which has it's teeth in her soul, but she is blinded and cannot see it.  And the angrier she gets, the worse the perceived attack, the more helpless she feels, the angrier she gets, and round and round it goes until...

The second is doing it "normally," either by talking so much the other does not get a chance to respond, or by tricking the other into thinking a certain way somehow.

These both assume some weakness of the 'victim'.   People who talk over me I ignore.   Tricking a person is not difficult, but eventually the truth always comes out, and then is the time for consequences to the perpetrator.

Either of these methods are not normally used in a normal argument and thus should not be feared in a casual argument like ours unless dealing with a psychopath, which brings me to the "it is because of our lack of control we try to control other's thoughts and emotions.

The exact quote should be, "It is because of our own feelings of lack of control that we try to control others thoughts," which I wrote intentionally.  We are all in control, but often are ignorant of our control, or want to control something we have no right to control because of our feelings of lack of control.

Most people cannot truly go inside someone's head and physically control them. They can try to dictate things, and they can try to control, but they truly cannot.

Many people suffer under the illusion that they can though, that they know what someone else is thinking, as if they are in their head.  That is where comments like, "You just want to start a fight!" or "You just want to argue!" come from.  Such a perspective is an imposition, an attempt to control for purposes of advantage.  Unfortunately, becasue of ignorance, they often do get away with it, causing much damage.

You say we try to deny that, and while some people DO try to do this with the "NEG" argument there are some cases out there where such psychic attachments have actually occured. The human mind and spirit is a wonderfull and complex thing that allows some of these things to go on.

I have not denied it.  For the fourth time I have never siad these things do not happen.  I have experienced this myself.  What we are discussing is the cause and cure, on topic.

It is testament to our God given power and free will that 'The human mind and spirit is a wonderfull and complex thing that allows some of these things to go on.'

quote:We do not need to judge others, only show discrimination and have faith in ourselves. If someone is harmful to us, then we should defend ourselves by resolving the situation or leaving. This does not mean the other person is 'bad', it means we have conflicting agendas. If someone wants to murder me then we have conflicting agendas, and the situation must be rectified - but that person may have very real reasons for wanting to murder me. On the other hand, I may want to murder someone, but again I have the choice to rectify the situation, or leave. If someone is just calling me names then that is about him, not me. Even if I propogated the situation, I have the power to resolve it or leave, and have it end there. One can never be aware of the larger karmik situation. We can only take care of ourselves the best we can, through true peace and compassion.

Think about what the world would be like if nobody judged another for a second. I see a man killing another and I do not judge him, thus I have no emotional ties to help the poor guy who is dying.
Without my judgement, which is defined as putting something in it's place in your mind and determining the VALUE of it, then there is no substantial value to anything.

Yes, judgement is 'Putting something in it's place in your mind and determining the VALUE of it', relative to something else, which is EXACTLY why you cannot judge people, for to do so is to put yourself OVER that person.

This does not mean you give up discrimination or compassion.  They are entirely seperate things.  One can decide the relative safety or risk of letting a madman run free to possibly murder one's loved ones.  It is a difficult decision, but the alternatives are clear and must be acted upon - it does not mean you place yourself above the other person in relative worth, it means you have the power and discrimination to protect yourself and others, and you act on that.

Please take a look at the example I gave Child of the Forest:

Scientist 1: Your theory on the universe is garbage.
Univ. Christian1: I know it is correct. Can you not feel the universe has a conscious?
Scientist 1: Conscious? and how many times has the universe talked to you today?
All: LOL
Scientist 2: Your theory on 2012 being the year of change is completely idiotic as well. Why should we believe we have to Change our ways? Science is the only truth to the universe.
Univ. Christian2: You should at least check it out, even by your thinking there is plenty of evidence that the 10th planet is...
Ccientist 1: tenth planet my @**, you christians just made that up

That was an example of a caring soul trying to help out people who would not listen. If you think the guy shouldn't care, what if those people were his direct family?

I should have answered this example earlier.  What I see is two individuals beligerently trying to control the perception of the other.  Frankly, beliefs do not matter as long as people respect each others rights to believe as they choose.  THAT would be the moral point of the argument, however respect and compassion is completely absent from these two people, thus they approach each other with mutual antagonism.

How a person dies does not matter.  We are spiritual beings, remember?  As long as both lived with compassion and integrity and pursued truth to the best of their ability, their karma is clear.  Let's keep things in perspective here.

If we focused completely on self then what would happen to government? To forwarding the human race? to forwarding the human race spiritually?

Again you take a statement of mine out of context with extreme examples.

Society IS cooperation, relationship IS cooperation, but both arise out of the individual into something larger.  I was not saying to exclude all but the self, I was simply making a statement about the self.

We have to help each other out.

A compassionate statement throughout.  Hopefully, you see my participation in our discussion as a testament to my values.  For my part I know I value your POV.

If we try to help other's out and try to remain peacefull then nothing would get done much like how this argument is not going anywhere. There must be emotions like anger and hate to exist in order for anything to move forward or even for the world to function at all.

~!~  On the contrary, I find this discussion a rare opportunity and most refreshing!  I am not angry at you and I do not hate you, and I feel things are progressing just fine.  Perhaps one day you will see that too.  Also, if you are saying you need hate, then you will always need someone or something to hate!  Who and what do you volunteer for the duty?

Hate is an emotional wound.  Anger is used too often as a tool to gather energy in an attempt to control.  Anger's biological function is to block pain, and that also works on a psychic level, blocking feeling so a rationalized agenda can be carried forward.  Used in this capacity it is not authentic.  It is separating, and violent.

As such, I disagree with your entire premise.  An angry mind can do nothing that a calm mind could do better, with discipline and compassion, which is also FAR healthier for our physical and spiritual organism.

You have to unbalance your emotions and make choices.

This is simply known as 'riding your passions', and has the disadvantage that when your passion runs out, you are left high and dry.  You find yourself constantly in the place of having to maintian a high emotional level to do anything, which will eventually leave you exhausted and used up.

True disciplined spirituality empowers you with true energy, not made-up psychic wildness.

Honestly, as far as 'negs' and yours and DK's problems with them, I begin to see the depth of the problem...

We DO have to take care in knowing what to look for in case these forces come forward.

Thus the need for discipline, discrimination, and guiding compassion.

But that does not explain a situation like DK is in.

I have already explained my view on DK's situation, and how she keeps herself open to 'his' will.

There is such thing as a helpless situation in the face of evil.

As I said in an earlier post, bad things can happen to good people, but we are spiritual beings, remember?  It is what we hold in our heart that is important, and how we keep our faith, regardless of how we are tested - yes, even in the face of, 'a helpless situation in the face of evil'.

But does that make me an irresponsible person overall? By saying that we should focus on helping others does that mean I am saying we should put aside responsibility for our actions? If I go out and help people am I irresponsible? Or am I more responsible? If I focus more on my own life and make myself balanced and make myself feel peacefull, and yet when it comes time to help other's I do not am I more responsible than the one who does? Am I responsible for my actions when I do not help other's when I had the power to? So many levels of responsibility here.

This is exactly where the true utility and power of self-discipline, meditation, and compassion are important.  Looking for authentic answers, you will find them.

You also think negativity should be ignored.

Please point to where I said this.

Our own selves are the most important.

How can we care for anyone else without first having taken care of ourselves?  Yes, sometimes sacrifice is called for, but the majority of the time we have the opportunity to take care of ourselves, and we should.  Again you take what I say out of context to an extreme position.

DK's situation.

I have already given my view of DK's situation, and other factors which she should consider.  IMO, she needs a new approach, but I am sadly convinced she sees no need for any change in herself.

[Mick]

quote:Originally posted by xander

The Book of the Law states that fear and suffering are illusions.
Xander

Does it say the same for other states of mind or are the two examples above a special case

A thoughyt, within this context is not laughing also an illusion?

[Mick]

quote:Originally posted by kiauma

Mick,

Your main argument throughout appears to be that to choose a perspective is to choose a filter, which simply eliminates what is not chosen to be seen.

No, I sumarised my comments with a suggestion for discussion following your input below where you told me I was saying:

So what you are saying is that we manifest what we believe we will see? That when our perception is through the value of peace, we will find peace, and conversely when our perspective is centered on fear, we find much to fear?

Well then we have been in agreement all along.

----------------------------------------------------
I replied to this to further qualify and raise some questions for discussion by saying:

WRT that comment I am suggesting that we interpret/translate non physical events into our own terms of reference, those terms being predicated by personal and cultural beliefs.
To your point re. manifestation quite likely true, if we set the mode to peace we perhaps see peace et al. However is it manifestation or filter or combination of both dependant on a myriad factors.

quote:
You are right and you are wrong.  First of all, only God can see the big picture.  Only God knows all karmik connections and vectors.  Only God can transcend perspective.  Only God is immanent. Are you saying you are God?  Are you telling us all you have penetrated that high and unknown purpose, which men have pursued since his first dim awareness of his own mortality?

In your dreams, maybe.

On the contary it is not I who is being absolutist, I take care not to for the reason that I neither claim nor assume to understand all and assume that what I think I understand today cound be subject to update or change tomorrow. If anything my text below was included as a caution against such thinking:

One other point I would add is that I think care is needed not to place ourselves at the centre of the universe for everything that happens, yes within our space we exert much (including weaknesses ) but not withstanding we also sit within a morass of activity that may impinge with varying degrees again dependant on a myriad factors.

Snipped the remainder as the linkage seemed hypothetical WRT my statements.

[SpectralDragon]

I can understand your thinking on a lot of this, and I have often thought the same myself. I learned from those mistakes. I also paid a heavy price for my mistakes as well.

When someone uses extreme examples someone is trying to make it perfectly clear what they are talking about. That is what I am doing. by showing you the extreme I am trying to show you a bigger picture that you don't seem to be getting yet.

Also I do not need help. I am helping DK.

Please try to look at what I am saying from multiple perspectives.

I knew the whole time what you meant by argue. Change argue into "fight" "kill" and the conversation stays the same throughout.

quote:
Either of these methods are not normally used in a normal argument and thus should not be feared in a casual argument like ours unless dealing with a psychopath, which brings me to the "it is because of our lack of control we try to control other's thoughts and emotions.

The exact quote should be, "It is because of our own feelings of lack of control that we try to control others thoughts," which I wrote intentionally. We are all in control, but often are ignorant of our control, or want to control something we have no right to control because of our feelings of lack of control.

Now, remember what I said about reletivity? I repeated that on purpose. I changed your quote on purpose. If you think about it, control cannot exist without it's opposite, the lack of it. So to have control is to also have the lack of it. There is no such thing as complete control. So control is only relative. Still there, but only relative. Depends how you look at it.

quote:
DK is apparently your friend, and I respect that, but central to this debate is the principle of causal intent. Is it real or not? Either a person is centered in self-responsibility, or they are not.

Now, I know you don't come out and say it, but you are suggesting that People should focus on themselves. This is why me and you are arguing too much. The way you put down your words confuses me. Looking at this a second time I think you are trying to look at this from an empty-emotional angle and most people do not know how to do that. Thus I am not used to seeing it. If this is the case then I need to go back and re-read everything you said. To answer that question yes self intent is there. But it also has it's other side in which one's intent is focused on other's.

quote:
How a person dies does not matter. We are spiritual beings, remember? As long as both lived with compassion and integrity and pursued truth to the best of their ability, their karma is clear. Let's keep things in perspective here.

From what I have read/seen/experienced. Is that the way the soul dies does matter. In the larger relative sense if the body dies the soul goes into heaven or hell state and then get's reincarnated. Looking at it in the smaller picture, you die in water you will not want to swim in the next lifetime. And if you think that is the extreme example, well no it isn't actually.

Even though I know and feel my soul goes on, I still like living thank you very much.[]

quote:~!~ On the contrary, I find this discussion a rare opportunity and most refreshing! I am not angry at you and I do not hate you, and I feel things are progressing just fine. Perhaps one day you will see that too. Also, if you are saying you need hate, then you will always need someone or something to hate! Who and what do you volunteer for the duty?

I meant that neither side is giving any leeway.
And as to the second part yes sadly that is true. The universe is not perfect. The afterlife is not perfect. (My guide, Kereen, has often said that "even in the enlightened I have seen stupidity. People who do not think they have egos who go around and ruin things for other people. By thinking they are enlightened (***this statement is saying that they are actually thinking not that they are not actually un-enlightened***)they do not notice thier own emotions weave happenings around them. since thier ego is big, the effect becomes even greater. It is unfortunate, but true." My point here being that even in the afterlife these things apparently exist, though not in the same way we think of them.

quote: This is exactly where the true utility and power of self-discipline, meditation, and compassion are important. Looking for authentic answers, you will find them.

Not much thought behind that wording there. Think about how someone might enterpret that Oh enlightened one. Srry if you take that the wrong way but just trying to show you how this wording of yours is working on my thinking. Please realize that I am not saying you are claiming any of the above example. They are having a fit over that kind of thing you right now you know.
Your emotions are there for a reason. It's like saying god gave you a brain for a reason, so USE IT. I practiced these focusing excercises for a good 2 years, got quite far, and yes they do accomplish a lot. HOWEVER they are simply not fit for every situation. You have to use your emotional power sometime. Also you CAN focus better when using certain emotions. I agree there is a disadvantage to it, doesn't work quite the way you put it. basically you use it for everything and you become TOO emotional. You also loose a good amount of Ki, but not the emotions, hence the dried out feeling.
Hate to go back to the DK situation, but you have no clue what she is going through. However, since this is not the thread to talk of such I won't go into it anymore than this:"i have had my reality changed so much...He forces you to change your way of thinking constantly. Eventually you don't know what's real anymore."

Now back to what this topic is originally about, like you said. Yes, our thoughts and emotions trigger events, but other things trigger our thought, like our surroundings.

Ahhh...forgot to put in my favorite quote:
"Balance is natural. Be angry when you have to be angry. Be happy when you should be happy. In the end these things will all balance themselves out naturally."---anonymous.

[kiauma]

I can understand your thinking on a lot of this, and I have often thought the same myself. I learned from those mistakes. I also paid a heavy price for my mistakes as well.

What mistakes are those?  Examples please.

When someone uses extreme examples someone is trying to make it perfectly clear what they are talking about. That is what I am doing. by showing you the extreme I am trying to show you a bigger picture that you don't seem to be getting yet.

That makes no sense.  To relate correctly with the world one must relate with the world as it is, and the world is not extreme.  Being extreme makes no more sense than if someone were to kill everyone on the earth as a precaution against being murdered - it is at the exclusion of everything else, at the cost of everything else.

That is why your extreme examples make no sense.  I suppose they are fine for illustrating a concept, but in practice they simply cannot apply.

Also I do not need help. I am helping DK.

You do not need my help in understanding my POV, in possibly understanding the cosmos a little better, and helping your friend in the process?  Are we merely discussing this so you can 'tell me how it is'?

Who lives in a bubble now?

Now, remember what I said about reletivity? I repeated that on purpose. I changed your quote on purpose. If you think about it, control cannot exist without it's opposite, the lack of it. So to have control is to also have the lack of it. There is no such thing as complete control. So control is only relative. Still there, but only relative. Depends how you look at it.

SD, I like talking to you, but let me get this straight...  

You changed my own words to prove your point.   On purpose.

Think about what you are doing...

Also, all you are talking about with 'control' and 'lack of it' is boundaries.  I am really not sure what your point is on this, perhaps you could clarify on that for me?

Now, I know you don't come out and say it, but you are suggesting that People should focus on themselves.

Yes, I do come out and say it, twice.  However, in the context of the point I think you are trying to make, I will state that individuality comes out of relationship - a point I'm sure you would agree with.  As such, the highest value is in the self-other relationship.  However, without cultivation of the self this is impossible from the beginning, and besides we control ourselves, not others, thus my emphasis on self.

This is why me and you are arguing too much.

Whoa!  First of all, I am not arguing with you.  I am presenting my POV, and looking at yours - a discussion, I think.  Secondly, if you think we are doing whatever 'too much', lemme know and I can spend my time somewhere else, for there are many other things I could be doing.  Personally, I am finding a lot of benefit from this discussion, and I hoped you were too.

The way you put down your words confuses me. Looking at this a second time I think you are trying to look at this from an empty-emotional angle and most people do not know how to do that. Thus I am not used to seeing it. If this is the case then I need to go back and re-read everything you said. To answer that question yes self intent is there. But it also has it's other side in which one's intent is focused on other's.

Empty-emotional?  I believe emotions should serve me, not the other way around, if that's what you mean.

Even though I know and feel my soul goes on, I still like living thank you very much.

Me too! []

I meant that neither side is giving any leeway.

Is that our script?  Forget who we are, we are to come to a consensus?  Hm.  As fascinating as I am finding your POV, I am rather pesimistic of that happening in the near future.

quote:Also, if you are saying you need hate, then you will always need someone or something to hate! Who and what do you volunteer for the duty?

And as to the second part yes sadly that is true. The universe is not perfect. The afterlife is not perfect. (My guide, Kereen, has often said that "even in the enlightened I have seen stupidity. People who do not think they have egos who go around and ruin things for other people. By thinking they are enlightened (***this statement is saying that they are actually thinking not that they are not actually un-enlightened***)they do not notice thier own emotions weave happenings around them. since thier ego is big, the effect becomes even greater. It is unfortunate, but true." My point here being that even in the afterlife these things apparently exist, though not in the same way we think of them.

[B)]

Actually, I am of the POV that everything is as it should be.  Perhaps that is my Naivete, but I am wondering...  How would you run the universe?

Also, you keep saying that these occurances are external to your will, but your guide tells you that even the enlightened at times "do not notice thier own emotions weave happenings around them".

I quite agree, and I'm not even enlightened.

Could your guide be trying to tell you something?

Not much thought behind that wording there. Think about how someone might enterpret that Oh enlightened one.

On the contrary, you are the one who implies he perceives more than the enlightened.

Srry if you take that the wrong way but just trying to show you how this wording of yours is working on my thinking.

My wording?  Then I take it you see no value in self-discipline, meditation, and compassion?  

If you can see that the wording is a problem, why don't you just stick to the meaning, which you imply you understand?

Perhaps your emotions rule you, and not the other way around...

Your emotions are there for a reason. It's like saying god gave you a brain for a reason, so USE IT.

I agree, just don't wind up being used by them.

I practiced these focusing excercises for a good 2 years, got quite far, and yes they do accomplish a lot. HOWEVER they are simply not fit for every situation.

Discipline and meditation are tools of contemplation, though discipline itself should touch every facet of your life.  It is a means of making my life better, but I do not make the mistake of confusing it for my life

Compassion I do not think you actually were thinking of when you made that statement.  Or were you?   For me it is a guiding force, or I try to make it so.  

You have to use your emotional power sometime.  

By all means, the intellect itself is a sorry excuse for a soul.  My point is not to let it rule you.  YOU should rule you, not knee-jerk reaction.

Also you CAN focus better when using certain emotions.

I have found that simply a clear mind and interested involvement in what I am doing does the job splendidly.

Hate to go back to the DK situation, but you have no clue what she is going through.

SD you are absolutely correct.  However, if she has been trying to deal with this for over 5 years then you and even she apparently are as clueless as I.  I suggest getting real help, and soon.

Yes, our thoughts and emotions trigger events, but other things trigger our thought, like our surroundings.

Yes, and it is us who decides our response, NOTHING else.

"Balance is natural. Be angry when you have to be angry. Be happy when you should be happy. In the end these things will all balance themselves out naturally."---anonymous.

Very good quote, very taoist, almost Zen.  What the quote speaks to, however, is being our authentic self, responding with authentic emotions, out of our clearest intent - Not manufactured anger cultivated toward some controlling end.

[SpectralDragon]

quote:Also I do not need help. I am helping DK.

You do not need my help in understanding my POV, in possibly understanding the cosmos a little better, and helping your friend in the process? Are we merely discussing this so you can 'tell me how it is'?

I am saying I don't need help with negs nor do I currently have attachment or mystical problems like DK. Yes I definitely need help understanding you POV, and EVERYONE needs help understanding the cosmos and enlightenment. We would not be having this discusion if that was not the case.

That's all I have time for at the moment i will reply to rest later. srry.

[Nay]

Are you two STILL talking this over?...

*throws in a very, shiny,..very..very..shiny, white towel*

Let it rest my friends..all is good....[^]

Nay..aka..the ref!

[SpectralDragon]

quote:Originally posted by Nay

Are you two STILL talking this over?...

*throws in a very, shiny,..very..very..shiny, white towel*

Let it rest my friends..all is good....[^]

Nay..aka..the ref!

We aren't quite throwing punches and kicks yet though. He is a gentleman. Just a good debate.

[kiauma]

Thank you SD.  I am finding you of good character too. []

Yes, a very good debate, on a very important subject.  I am already thinking of a spin-off subject for another topic, which I think will be thought provoking.

If the moderators really feel this discussion should end, I respect their concern, and I will honor that request.  Personally though, I also see no need of it.

[Nay]

No, no..ya'll go right ahead..[]

Debate away!

Nay. []

[SpectralDragon]

K here is the rest of my response.

quote:What mistakes are those? Examples please.

That is kind of a persanal thing. If you wish I can PM some of these to you.

quote:When someone uses extreme examples someone is trying to make it perfectly clear what they are talking about. That is what I am doing. by showing you the extreme I am trying to show you a bigger picture that you don't seem to be getting yet.

That makes no sense. To relate correctly with the world one must relate with the world as it is, and the world is not extreme. Being extreme makes no more sense than if someone were to kill everyone on the earth as a precaution against being murdered - it is at the exclusion of everything else, at the cost of everything else.

That is why your extreme examples make no sense. I suppose they are fine for illustrating a concept, but in practice they simply cannot apply.

The world is extreme. It is not as extreme as somone killing everyone else, though some mass murderers seem to have tried. I will try to give you some better examples from now on.

More about DK and helping her quickly, me and this other gentleman along with her seem to have her problem within our grasp right now. She is feeling much better and can actually fight back.

quote:Now, remember what I said about reletivity? I repeated that on purpose. I changed your quote on purpose. If you think about it, control cannot exist without it's opposite, the lack of it. So to have control is to also have the lack of it. There is no such thing as complete control. So control is only relative. Still there, but only relative. Depends how you look at it.
SD, I like talking to you, but let me get this straight...

You changed my own words to prove your point. On purpose.

Think about what you are doing...

Also, all you are talking about with 'control' and 'lack of it' is boundaries. I am really not sure what your point is on this, perhaps you could clarify on that for me?

What I was trying to tell you is that the two are basically the same thing when you look at it in the standpoint in italics in the quote above.

quote:Now, I know you don't come out and say it, but you are suggesting that People should focus on themselves.

Yes, I do come out and say it, twice. However, in the context of the point I think you are trying to make, I will state that individuality comes out of relationship - a point I'm sure you would agree with. As such, the highest value is in the self-other relationship. However, without cultivation of the self this is impossible from the beginning, and besides we control ourselves, not others, thus my emphasis on self.

Are you trying to say that we should focus on ourselves and other's as well? That is what I have been tring to tell you and yes I can completely agree with it.

quote:This is why me and you are arguing too much.

Whoops that came out wrong what I was trying to say was we disagree too much.

quote:I meant that neither side is giving any leeway.

Is that our script? Forget who we are, we are to come to a consensus? Hm. As fascinating as I am finding your POV, I am rather pesimistic of that happening in the near future.

Isn't this what makes this conversation interesting in a way though? Yes, we are slowly starting to agree with each other now though.

as far as the emotions ruling me part of your speech, nice but your emotions are often used to your surroundings you need to get in tune with your emotions and find out why they occur. If your emotions and your conscious do not agree on something then something is wrong with you and you need to find out what it is. I know I am not enlightened but I try to know myself as best as I can. My guide, Kereen, tells me things so I can learn, yes, but speaks to me in the manner any other person would.

to put this simply your emotions and your mind are like qigong and martial arts. You can use one without the other but they work best together. I have tried martial arts without Qigong, it works. Tried qigong without Martial arts, works. But when I use the two together they both work at thier best. Both in terms of making my body healthy and learning martial arts.

quote:I have found that simply a clear mind and interested involvement in what I am doing does the job splendidly

I was told that interest was an emotion by a friend I argued with a while ago about this same subject. []

quote:Yes, and it is us who decides our response, NOTHING else.

Hmmm...
There is a rule in Chaos math called the law of infinites. In between any two things there is infinity, but that infinity is still bounded. The universe is boundless, but you can go beyond the universe up to heaven, as the universe is only a part of heaven. So your decisions are boundless, but are still binded by the universe we live in. Hope that makes sense. [xx(]

quote:
Very good quote, very taoist, almost Zen. What the quote speaks to, however, is being our authentic self, responding with authentic emotions, out of our clearest intent - Not manufactured anger cultivated toward some controlling end.

This is what I have been trying to tell you this whole time. The manufactered anger part I am not sure of though. Are you trying to say I create more anger than I need to?

[kiauma]

SD:

That is kind of a persanal thing. If you wish I can PM some of these to you.

I would like you to send me one, if you don't mind and you think it would forward your point, yes.  It would be interesting to see if we understand those situations in the same way we perceive the relevant issue.

The world is extreme.

That is relative.  The world is extremely world-like, otherwise it is generally an incredible balance of nearly unimaginable forces.  

For example, in space objects routinely travel many times the speed of a bullet, yet a storm with wind speeds a mere hundred miles an hour completely blows us into disarray, breaking down many of our systems.  The sun is hot enough to fuse atoms, a black hole heavy enough to trap light with it's own weight.  

The world is a very gentle place, comparatively.

More about DK and helping her quickly, me and this other gentleman along with her seem to have her problem within our grasp right now. She is feeling much better and can actually fight back.

I wish her a speedy recovery.

What I was trying to tell you is that the two are basically the same thing when you look at it in the standpoint in italics in the quote above.

Control and lack of control?

I am new to that viewpoint.  I can see the differentiation, and how one arises out of the other, but I question the pragmatism of the distinction, other than for the purposes of boundaries, as I said.

I look at it as a 2D drawing, that I have a sphere of control, a sphere of influence which includes my sphere of control, and then there is everything else.

A simplification for sure, but it helps me to organize my concerns and responsibilities.

quote:Now, I know you don't come out and say it, but you are suggesting that People should focus on themselves.

Yes, I do come out and say it, twice. However, in the context of the point I think you are trying to make, I will state that individuality comes out of relationship - a point I'm sure you would agree with. As such, the highest value is in the self-other relationship. However, without cultivation of the self this is impossible from the beginning, and besides we control ourselves, not others, thus my emphasis on self.

Are you trying to say that we should focus on ourselves and other's as well? That is what I have been tring to tell you and yes I can completely agree with it.

Then we are in accord.  Taking a segue from the two previous points, I will add that by my outlook I influence the world external to me, thus my belief that my self-responsibility impacts the larger world, and the need to present the outlook that I feel the world will most likely benefit from.

In this way caring for myself is caring for the world.

Whoops that came out wrong what I was trying to say was we disagree too much.

I am glad you see the distinction, though I will add that I think we disagree just right.  []

Yes, we are slowly starting to agree with each other now though.

I think it important in any debate, though especially a net forum debate such as this one, to if not avoid then at least to identify any impositional dynamics at play.  The need to establish social pecking order is an often invisible dynamic that shapes arguments and alliances.  The same with the social bonding reflex.

These dynamics have made appearences throughout this thread, along with a thousand other unseen vectors, I'm sure.  Still, we have hung in with the debate long enough to finally get down to cases and now I suspect we will see that our views are not so different after all, despite all the posturing and maneuvering.

Our outlooks can be such a plastic and dynamic thing, but as I said in the beginning, true morality is natural, and not subject to debate.

...you need to get in tune with your emotions and find out why they occur.

I have.

to put this simply your emotions and your mind are like qigong and martial arts. You can use one without the other but they work best together. I have tried martial arts without Qigong, it works. Tried qigong without Martial arts, works. But when I use the two together they both work at thier best. Both in terms of making my body healthy and learning martial arts.

I never said otherwise.  Again you interpret my words to an extreme case.

Fascinating example of the intellect/emotion dyad though, and very true.  I have never tried any of the martial disciplines - sounds interesting!

I was told that interest was an emotion by a friend I argued with a while ago about this same subject.

Correct again, but notice how the emotion compliments, rather than controls the action.  Balance, just as you often suggest.

There is a rule in Chaos math called the law of infinites. In between any two things there is infinity, but that infinity is still bounded. The universe is boundless, but you can go beyond the universe up to heaven, as the universe is only a part of heaven. So your decisions are boundless, but are still binded by the universe we live in. Hope that makes sense.

Yes, it makes perfect sense, and I will agree to your point, though I will point that it works both ways.

Just as it is us who decides for ourselves in a world we are subject to, it is just as true that we are subject to the world even though we make our own decisions.

The manufactered anger part I am not sure of though. Are you trying to say I create more anger than I need to?

If you see anger as a tool to be used, yes.  Anger happens when it is appropriate to the body, but try to use it for a contrived end, and it is simply no longer appropriate.


*edited for clarity*

[SpectralDragon]

Well, seeing as we are in agreement Then this good debate seems to be at an end. It was nice debating with you. []

I'll PM you one of those instances when I get the chance.

[kiauma]

And Thanks to you.

*Bows*

[Serena]

I'm pretty new, and certainly less knowledgable than many here. I found the astral pulse site in my own desperate search for answers to the attacks I have been experiencing for many years , and thanks to dark night and others  I woke up from my denial and realized that this is not going to just go away, I have to take an active part in educating myself on strengthing and defending myself. It takes alot of work and consistancy. But here is my two cents .... neg attacks seem to happen more to those individuals who are more spiritually advanced and who have a natural enlightenment, and.... for lack of better words people with a kind heart, a giving nature.  I'm not talking about matyrs, or being superior, or super powers... to every light there is a dark. Yet certain individuals have natural abilities, it's as though we some how have open gateways to the astral world that are invisible to us, and that we seem to be born with, and each person is diffent, some have more than others. There are those who would say that everyone has this, but I personally disagree. Individuals who experience and live with neg attacks, experience other things as well, and it's not all bad,in fact some of it is cool, just weird, in contrast to what is considered normal. Though me, myself and I would trade it in a heart beat to be one of those "normal" people. Someone who has never experienced a real neg attack hasn't got a clue of what it's like, what it's about, and certainly the hell in living with it, and with all do respect child of the woods, it's alot deeper and more real than prejudice thoughts, or being told your made of slime. I know you used that as an example only, but it was a bad example. It's like being told "think positive". It just doesn't get it, and it is an injustice to those of us who have thought our selves crazy and contemplated suicide, because of everything that is invloved with living with neg attacks. If you want a clearer idea of what it's like, just read more of what is in this forum, and tread lightly with the simplistic advice you offer, because if you do read you'll find there is nothing simple about this, but on the positive bless you for trying.

[Child of the Forest]

Serena,

Thank you for replying.

I have lived through severe attacks. At one point I was suicidal. I have also been attacked by Succubi etc...

When I stopped "defending" meaning defending against the thoughts they would project, the attacks subsided a great deal.

The main thing when it comes to attacks is balance...

The more balanced you are, the less able negative entities will be to attack you.

Think of a batallion of a thousand people marching together; in unison...

now think of the same group of people scattered apart from each other just strolling along.


Which of the two do you think it is easier to penetrate?


The scattered group of people, of cousre.

The analogy is this:

The more balanced you are; the more inline your chakras are with the Universe, and the more difficult it is for you to be penetrated. When balanced, one can tell negativity is being sent their way, but remain in the observant position.

The more judging, DEFENDING, and rationalizing you do, on any level, the less balanced you are; and so the easier it is to be impacted upon.

Reiki is an excellent way to get oneself in balance. You can go to a Reiki Practicioner or you can take Reiki classes and give yourself Reiki treatments and eventually, be able to do the same for others.

To make it short, Reiki is the Universal Life-Force Energy, from which all Life is Created. Reiki is the same Force Nature uses...

Rei= The Universal Wisdom
Ki= Life Force Energy

Reiki is always present, a student needs to be attuned to it though to be able to channel it; much in the same way electricity is always present in one's home, but they need to hit the switch to turn the lights on.

Reiki is channled through the practicioner and out his or her hands into the person recieving the treatment. This can be done either hands on, or hands off, depending on the recipient's preference.

Reiki is what helped me...

[kiauma]

I applaud you, Child of the Forest.  I hope others can learn from your example and take the responsibility to heal their own pain, whatever it's source.

[Serena]

Well that makes more sense, and I can appreciate what your saying. I have not tried Reiki yet, still a babe when it comes to alot of things, except common sense. Seems the more I know the more I have yet to learn. I agree with the balance, and for every negative, there is a positive if we open ourselves up and relax. Live, laugh, dance, and sing. And above all else understand thyself, because then one is able to understand the nature of others. But I also know for me that when a negative entity hits with force, I have to hit back just as hard in that moment. I concentrate my anger,pull up my psychic sheild,and call down the angels. I call down rath! And then I let it go,and I continue on. I use to be really afraid, I mean lets face it when you wake up in the middle of the night from a horrible smothering dream,and realize that you really are smothering and there is something really malicious standing over you,and you can feel it in your bones,who wouldn't be afraid? Much less all the other wierd  things that can go on good and bad through the years. But I've learned fear is the only thing to be afraid of, and maybe someday when I learned more, the wierd will be less.  

[Child of the Forest]

Thank you Kiauma, Thank you Serena.

Another thing that helps a great deal is where you focus your thoughts. Energy always goes to where the thought is focused...

If you look at dealing with negative energy as Healing and Balancing yourself rather than fighting the entities, it is alot easier and more pleasent.

Also Serena, like you said it is important to be able to understand others. Most of us find it very easy to judge those who are the source of the negative energy bombarding us; it is so difficult not to. But when we are able to understand those people, we can see that they too have suffered and we can understand the true reason they do the things they do. After all, those who do cruel things are the ones who are reaching out for Love the most; they feel they cannot find it.

I am still learning all of this myself...

There is always more to be learned, Life is a journey not a destination.

"There is no way to enlightenment, enligtenment is the way..." - I forget the name of the person who said this, but it makes a lot of sense.

As for the Reiki, you can do a search online for places that offer classes. Some Reiki Master Teachers offer classes through community schools; night classes etc... But as the saying goes,

"When the Student is ready, the Teacher appears." So as with all else in the Universe, when the time is right, everything will fall into place.

Light and Love to All
~Child

[Child of the Forest]

I will start this with a quote:

"If you truly believe what you say, you would not need to defend it" - Michael BigBear of the Walhour Hour (Sunday nights at 11:00pm 103.9fm for those of you who are in the Weschester area. North Jersey picks this station up as well)

It is a very true and wise saying. For instance, if someone told you you were made out of slime, would you even entertain that thought? Of course not, because you know you are not. Why then should it be any different when someone makes fun of you or calls you hurtful names? If someone told you you were made from slime, you would laugh and say, "That's ridiculous," or something similar. You can do the same thing when people say things to hurt you. Just laugh and say, "That's ridiculous."

Now here is where it comes in handy for psychic attacks. As you may already know, negative entities like to disguise themselves as your own thoughts. They will project things into your mind; guilt producing or otherwise. Although it is not that difficult to know it is them, it is difficult to truly be aware of it.

When these projections enter your mind, try applying the "slime principle" from above. You know those thoughts are not yours and so you do not need to try and defend yourself against them. Simply say, "That is ridiculous," and give it no further thought. This eliminates the defending and so helps in getting rid of obsessiveness.

Practice, and if you get good enough at it, the negative entites will soon leave. The more you do it, the less and less power the negative entities have. It is extremely liberating. I would also like to stress the importance of where your thoughts are focused. Remember, energy goes to where the thought is focused. If you focus on a problem, you will only make the problem bigger; if you focus on anything negative, you will only increase its power. Try to focus on the postive in all situations. Look upon it through the eyes of a student; what did you learn from it?

Love and Light
~Child