Angelic defense - where is it?????

[Two Bears]

Hello Joe; my brother.

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interested in harming us, yet angels as our friends, guides and spiritual beings offer no defense to the defenceless. To my way of thinking, even on Earth when a small nation is invaded by a greatly stronger (evil) force, an equally strong ally will step in to help.
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They will not interfere with the person's free will.

If you want their help; ask for it. Many time I would have been harmed or killed if it were not for my helping spirits.

This is why I tell people to spend time in prayer and meditation to strengthen their aura.

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Doesn't God have anything invested in His children? Would He not take offence at such gross violations of His law (I certainly would)?
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God (Great Spirit in my vernacular) sees us as children that have to learn and grow. A child does not learn to walk unless it falls down a few times.

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practical note, is it possible to enlist the direct aid and participation of angelic entities in combat with demonic entities? Even deities? Not in the sense of "prayerfulness", "divine names"
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Absolutely! I have had much success with my totem animal, and called on the Akua such as Pele or Kanaloa when I encountered very powerful entities. that I could not handle on my own.

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that is subject to a horde of fallen angels, whilst a horde of their opposite numbers sits and watches the action. I really would like to know if you have experience that shows that to be false...
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I can only speak from MY experience. most of the negative entities I have encountered; are people unwilling to cross over because they are attached to posessions, drugs, or afraid of being punished. They deserve out love and respect to raise their vibration and help them make the transition.

THis is why I am so opposed to the "christian" and "catholic" habit of casting them out into darkness where the bad enties are and making them more angry and negative.


Two Bears

Aloha nui loa
Received the title "master" 8 times and still trying to master myself.

[fastwalker]

Joe,

Your question reminds me of very ancient Walk Disney cartoon where Donald Duck is a young duck. He is supposed to go to school, but is tempted to play hookey. On one shoulder is a bad angel, and on the other shoulder is a good angel. The point of bringing up this carhming old cartoon made in the 30's was that the good angel was seen as rather wimpy and ineffectual. While the bad angel would tempt Donald and use his fists (in one comical scene, he took the good angel's halo and shoved it down around the angel's waist, thereby pinning his arms to his side). Only at the end when the good angel got fed up with the meally mouthed pious drivel, and took action (pretty much beating up the bad angel and kicking him away from Donald as if the bad angel was a basketball) did "Good" triumph.

I think there is a common perception that good is very wimpy and weak, whereas evil is macho and will do whatever it takes to win. I've always found that rather dismaying too, as if so-called good is like a very distant father/mother who spends too much time on the intellectual plane.

Frankly, my final conclusion at a young age is that God and Angels etc. do not function the way I want them to because I must be conceptualizing REALITY in the wrong way. Reality is reality. If we want to conceptualize it into polarities and insist that our team win (when instead it seems rather ineffectual much of the time) then perhaps our dogma or our philosophy (or whatever word you employ) needs a reality-check. Perhaps the universe just doesn't really work the way we think it does or should. It does no good to rail at God for not fulfilling our conceptualization. Perhaps our conceptualization is simply wrong.  

Or as my dad used to say "If you want good in the world, do good. Stop expecting someone else to do it." (especially if that someone is God and his gang - they often seem a bit late for the party).

[Murphy]

Joe, I love your post, it's so on target! I'm glad someone finally spoke up, as I had been ready to point out the Emperor's "clothes".

I think that fastwalker is missing the point by quoting his dad "if you want good in the world do good".

The whole point is that life is an unfair race of powerless good people/entities against powerful bad people/entities.

People who wish to do good are impeded by the dark side
while the angels fail to come to the rescue.

Why not allow the good side to be more powerful than the bad side?

In my site, I mention the type of "fantasy world" I would live in if I had a choice - which I don't.

http://jelleym.tripod.com/badluck/badluck.html">Bad Luck Murphy

Edited by - Murphy on 28 February 2002  03:45:42

[Robert Bruce]

G'day!

Good and evil are necessary opposing spiritual forces that mould life and promote spiritual evolution.

If you believe in angels and good spirits, then by default you also believe in demons and evil spirits.  

You cannot fairly and accurately believe that angels and good spirits are independent beings, while on the other hand denying the same independence of existence to demons and evil spirits.  This results in the popular but somewhat illogical monotheistic model, which in my opinion is only workable in theory.  In practice, the dualism model is far more logical and workable.

In a nutshell, dualism = God created the universe and everything in it, meaning that God created both good 'and' evil spiritual beings. And as God is incapable of making mistakes, everything under creation is just as it should be. We may not understand the ins and outs of all this, but we can trust in God's wisdom.

Both good and evil have purpose and neither could exist without the other.

Angels and good spirits help and guide and protect, while demons and evil spirits harm and hinder and infect.

Angels are 'messengers of God'. They spiritually influence people for good, but seldom directly interfere with the affairs of humankind.

Demons hinder and possess and inflict disease and spiritual pollution. They also seldom directly interfere with humankind, but keep a low and hidden profile.

It can aptly be said that the greatest thing Satan ever did was to convince the post modern world that he did not exist.

Do you believe in karma and universal law?

If you do, then you must think about how it works, and more importantly 'how' it is applied to us all down here in the physical dimension.  

If, for example, a person's karma says they must suffer terrible disease, torment, pain and heartbreak, how is this inflicted?  Angels and good spirits are, obviously, out of the question.  This would be contrary to their nature. But demons and evil spirits will do this willingly, as this is according to their nature.  So, in this case, the appropriate demons or evil spirits are attracted to this hapless person, and in so doing karma is justly applied according to Gods's law of Karma.

Now extending on this, lets say that a person's karma (bad karma) set them to be abused and tormented during childhood by evil persons.  Just 'how' are these evil perpetrators to be created, and how are they to be attracted to the right children, karmically speaking?  Again, demons and evil spirits are attracted to mould such evil people, often from a very young age indeed.

However, when through realizations and self-help efforts, necessary life lessons are learned, the need for evil abuse may reduce or cease. In this case, angels and good spirits are attracted that will lessen or remove the negative forces involved.

Humanity is continually evolving.  The greatest steps forward are taken by facing and overcoming adversity.  Without adversity and difficulty, without evil, the human race would cease to evolve, and eventually outlive its purpose.  Think about it!  Without these negative factors to try and test us, we would soon become a race of bleating sheep sitting in lush meadows, watching the world go by. All evolutionary progress would stoon come to a standstill.

As I am fond of saying, if God wanted us to live a life of spiritual harmony and peace, He would not have put us down here in the physical universe (the realm of hard experience) in the first place. He would instead have put us in a realm where evil and adversity did not exist.

As for enlisting real and tangible Angelic help, this can be done by learning and practicing the LBRP (lesser banishment ritual of pentagram). The best version of this I find in Kraig's book, "Modern Magick". This protective, cleansing ritual works directly with four of the archangels. It takes about a year for the average person to learn this simple ritual, but when learned its both powerful and effective for cleansing and banishing.

If you believe in angels and good spirits, but don't believe in magick, just stop for a moment and consider angels.  Angels are about as magickal as it gets:)

Take care, Robert.

[Joe]

Hi Fastwalker - I hear what you're saying and my reply would exactly as per Murphy's - in that the question is *why* the "reality" of the angelic hierarchy is the way it is.

Hi Robert - a very worthy viewpoint. I hope I can respond with why I don't fully agree . I too believe that God designs and works for our progress through both good and bad experiences, but you would have to believe that those experiences actually *do* benefit us in the spiritual sense, to make that statement true. When I hear the accounts of absolutely horrific and soul-destroying encounters with demons, how can one say that a person leaves this life having progressed spiritually? eg, a demonic possession where one's mind is turned insane, where one's soul becomes black and takes the form of a darkened mind, where one loses all control of their faculties and thinks, speaks and acts the most foul and obscene things, where one ends up by butchering others and possibly themselves. Although this is rather extreme, I'm sure you could affirm that it happens. Now when such a soul finally exits the body, what will they face? Not only the consequences of their actions to others, but their total and crushing spiritual pollution, and they may still not be free from the demon's aggression even then! I would contend that that is a *deplorable* model for spiritual growth. I personally would rebuke the "god" of that design, in the same way I would rebuke the "god" of Christian Hell & Damnation - ie. it just doesn't seem like the Will of a Benevolent and simultaneously Omnipotent entity.

One could argue that it is Karma, and that Karma reflects the perfect balance of action and reaction. If that were the case, why should we act at all? If a baby is being torn apart on the inside from an attack, it must be due to Karma, so would it not be presumptuous of me to interfere in Karma's path? Would I not possibly incur negative Karma myself by obstructing that which is rightfully to be had by the baby? Why concern ourselves with countermeasures and psychic defense? If that model is true, we live in a tremendously scary universe. If it isn't true, I would say the question remains as to why God, being much more Good than I, fails to do the good things that I would do in the same situation.

Of course, if I am wrong, I hope God accepts my apology and I promise to be as aloof in human affairs when I get Up There...

Anways - although you can see that I strongly disagree with that viewpoint, please believe me when I say I am eager to be corrected and hope the discussion yields some good learning...

All the best,
Joe

[fastwalker]

Joe,

I really doubt I missed the point (as Murphy claims), but instead am trying to express the view that if your paradigm has what seem like paradoxes (e.g., God is Good, the Devil is Evil, but God doesn't seem to blatantly help out much), then perhaps that paradigm needs a relook. Instead, you and Murphys are always coming from the assumption that your paradigm is 100% correct, and that therefore there must be a logical explanation for why it doesn't work out when applied to "real life", e.g., what is keeping those blasted angels from responding to a spiritual 911 call!

I have no answers, but I warn you of this: If you just continue to accept your belief system as the ultimate "fact", there will come others who will offer you convenient logical ways to plug up the paradoxes. Then you can be happy. But this does not mean any of this is necessarily "the way it is". I think back to the middle ages when astronomers worked diligently to explain all the movements of the heavens under the basic (wrong) assumption that the earth was the center of the universe. They even came up with brilliant complex models to explain the retrograde motions of other planets like Mars and Mercury. Brilliant, yet totally 100% WRONG!!!

I am not claiming that Christianity is 100% wrong, but you must keep an open mind to what really is, not what you want to be true or what you've been taught. The world is stuffed full of people like that, and they ironically all believe many different things. I guess my approach is to keep a light hand on my beliefs, let them go if experience proves that they just don't work in reality, and not seek ways to patch them up (since the human mind is always ingenious enough to find patches eventually, but that does NOT mean the original belief was 100% correct).

I have to agree with Robert that ALL comes from 1 source. We may never as little human beings in our western intellectual arrogance accept that the BIG PICTURE may be beyond our understanding. I do not know why little 7 year old girls in San Diego are killed, but I am not going to stuff a "fix" into a pre-existing belief system by trying to come up with a logical reason why angels did not save her. That's just the way this "game" (level of reality) works. If you want to figure it all out, good luck. Incredible minds since early Greece have tried, and current thinkers like Ken Wilber are taking a stab at it. I just think you've taken on a universal question that may be a lot bigger than the folks here can solve, unless (as I noted above) they just come up with some "fix" that lets the participants rest easy but may have nothing to do with reality.



Edited by - fastwalker on 28 February 2002  16:31:54

[fastwalker]

I just want to add that I will excuse myself from this discussion in the future. Why? Because people are coming from a particular belief system, and they want answers to perplexities in that belief system. I try to get across that the belief system itself PRODUCES THE PARTICULAR QUESTIONS BEING ASKED! So while people have legitimately posed a question based on their beliefs, I come along and say that the belief itself produces the discontinuity between expectation and reality (like someone being taught that all sex is evil, but then wondering why God created sex as the way to create all life!?! Um...could it be that the original belief that created the question is just wrong?).

Maybe I am arguing something a bit too subtle for this particular thread. So I am going to graciously tip my hat to y'all and wish you (as Robert says) G'Day.  


Edited by - fastwalker on 28 February 2002  16:30:44

Edited by - fastwalker on 28 February 2002  17:26:44

[Joe]

Hey fastwalker - I see your point a little better now from the last post, and having thought about it, do agree that it is certainly possible that my notion of Good is not the Universe's or God's understanding. Perhaps it is all relative - to a child a slap on the hand is a major trauma; perhaps to us a demonic attack is the same thing, yet both have our overall development in mind?... Possible.

Also, I didn't mean to imply that you missed the point in any way - I respect your views, and in particular have been able to see the question a little differently since your last post, so would certainly appreciate your further input.

I feel the question still stands as to why such a difference in view exists - it is concievable that when the race of humans is well advanced spiritually, we will be incredibly *active* for each other's benefit, as opposed to decidedly passive and distant...

Anyway, the answer doesn't change much about getting on with the inevitable practical work of concentration, trance and NEW...but it is always good to engage in challenging and worthwhile philosophical discussion.

Thanks again,
Joe

[Murphy]

I personally don't enjoy convoluted, complex, debates.
Nor do they impress me.
I don't enjoy a world that's a battleground of challenges.
Nor do they impress me.

I rather enjoy simple truths, and an evil-free world.

I would much rather become (to quote Robert Bruce):

quote:a race of bleating sheep sitting in lush meadows, watching the world go by

Furthermore, while many a story has been written "proving" the idea of Karma (such as those by Dr. Brian Weiss)

yet

my own experiences have disproven it. Because there's no way that all the many, detailed subtle manipulative nuances which my life consisted of including complex tortures involving hi-tech can be attributed to karma.

NO WAY

http://jelleym.tripod.com/badluck/badluck.html">Bad Luck Murphy

[Murphy]

To Fastwalker

Put it this way:

I'm in your ballpark with respect to the issues of possible negativity in certain bodies of water (such as the Fire Island guy and also noxious veins)

However, I don't agree with your viewpoint on the issues of accepting the way this world is.

In fact you mentioned that we come from different belief systems. True. My belief system is based on a combination of my own diabolic experiences, and senseless happenings I observe in the world, which I can in no way attribute to karma.

I think it may be true that some things have karmic explanations, but that many others can only be the result of evil forces allowed to be unleashed carte blanche.

http://jelleym.tripod.com/badluck/badluck.html">Bad Luck Murphy

[Joe]

Murphy - way to come out swinging!

Fair point though - Karma is not very straightforward at all. Although I notionally accept that some form of action/reaction must occur, there are so many inconsistencies and different readings on it, and I don't blame you for doubting it's very existence.

If the idea of Karma applies to demonic attack and angelic non-interference, what can be said about the demon's karma? If they are an instrument only, they should not rightly attract negative karma by inflicting suffering on a human as that action is itself the fulfillment of karma. If I go and attack someone psychically, I shouldn't incur bad karma if they karmically "deserved it". And if karma is a result of any action, eitehr good or bad, is God Himself subject to karma? Anyway, I don't know and it's very very theoretical, but that's how strange the theory gets...

For now I guess, it maybe just a case of "heads down" - work with what we do know about our small corner of life, make progress spiritually, and right knowledge will be revealed in time perhaps.

Cheers.

Joe.

quote:
I personally don't enjoy convoluted, complex, debates.
Nor do they impress me.
I don't enjoy a world that's a battleground of challenges.
Nor do they impress me.

I rather enjoy simple truths, and an evil-free world.

I would much rather become (to quote Robert Bruce):

quote:a race of bleating sheep sitting in lush meadows, watching the world go by

Furthermore, while many a story has been written "proving" the idea of Karma (such as those by Dr. Brian Weiss)

yet

my own experiences have disproven it. Because there's no way that all the many, detailed subtle manipulative nuances which my life consisted of including complex tortures involving hi-tech can be attributed to karma.

NO WAY

http://jelleym.tripod.com/badluck/badluck.html">Bad Luck Murphy

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
O Lord, thy ocean is so great and my boat is so small
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

[Murphy]

quote:Quoted by Joe:
If I go and attack someone psychically, I shouldn't incur bad karma if they karmically "deserved it".

If John Doe attacks someone psychically
because John Doe was chosen as a tool for evil BECAUSE he's an evil-doer
Then (logic would dictate) he should incur bad karma (perhaps at the "End of Days" as they say??)


http://jelleym.tripod.com/badluck/badluck.html">Bad Luck Murphy

[Robert Bruce]

G'day Folks!

The main reason why this type of discussion is important lies in the way that everyone seems to question reality and God and etc, whenever they encounter seriously bad fortune.  If one's child dies, for example, one may cry out to God 'Why me' or 'why did you take him/her' and everyone struggles to understand 'some' kind of meaning or reason.

The fact is, that only religion and philosophy can provide reasonable sounding reasons, because the direct path to such knowlege involves flying through some decidedly rarified air indeed. To understand the whole truth, one would have to understand the mind of God and the meaning of creation, ie, the meaning of life.

So, we all do our best to find something meaningful that we can relate to and understand, according to our personal experiences and beliefs.  There are many versions of the truth, to suit many levels of human understanding. This is the way its always been and it has a certain beauty to it.  For example, complex high-level truths are wasted on people of low intellect, whereas too-simple truths are unfulfilling for people of high intellect, etc...

Everyone has beliefs, even those who claim not to have any, because not believing is also a belief.

As for what karmic purpose is served by a person being destroyed by a demon, and maybe killed and killing others in the process, well, which version do you want:  the high level or the low level, or something in betwee?

One could say that such a soul is corrupted for all eternity, and that they become a negative spirit.  Maybe it is from such fruit that evil spirits do grow, maybe not...only God truly knows.

One could also say that such a soul is being severely tested, and by suffering terribly eliminates karmic debt, while inflicting same on many others.  

One could also say that such a soul may return, reincarnate, many times until it finds the spiritual strength to throw off such a dark burden, and in so doing make significant spiritual progress.

Pick a card, any card, for they are all a part of the same big deck:)

On a more down to earth note, in my experience I have rarely, if ever, encountered a seriously practicing spiritual person who has had serious evil spirit or demonic problems.  By seriously spiritual, I mean a person who truly believes and practices what they believe in.

Living a good spiritually practicing life is a very good way of reducing one's attractiveness to negs in general. It is not a perfect solution, but it really does help.

Most modern people today seem to only turn their face towards God when they are hit with seriously bad life experience, say when they lose a loved one, or their pay packet.  Apart from this, and the occasional wedding or funeral, most people seem to live self-absorbed hedonistic lives these days.

The above is why, many years ago, I began to concentrate on children. Most people I have helped overcome or reduce serious neg related problems, are unwilling to make serious lifestyle changes. They just want someone to wave a magick wand and make it all go away, so they can get back to enjoying their lives in the same way they always have.
Humans are creatures of habit and its not their fault, re most lack the self discipline to make serious changes.  

Sometimes, neg problems are a wakeup call from life, urging people to make serious lifestyle changes and do something better with their lives than wasting it on TV, gossip, sex, drugs and rock and roll.

Sometimes, neg related problems are a wakeup call designed to change a person's direction in life.  Think about it.  If you become proactive in your own defense and healing (which I recommend), you will meet people and do things and make many decisions which will ultimately change your direction in life.

Take care, Robert.

[Murphy]

quote:Quoted by Robert Bruce:
Living a good spiritually practicing life is a very good way of reducing one's attractiveness to negs in general. It is not a perfect solution, but it really does help.

As a child, I lived a good, spiritually practicing life.
As a child, a curse was cast on me which had repercussions for the rest of my life to this day (so I was told by various seers at separate times and places).

So perhaps I fit into the category of "non-serious evil-spirit problems".

After all, I've never been physically bounced around.

It seems as if the evil spirits manipulate things outside myself (such as circumstances & people & interfering with communications) as pawns against me, causing such stress as to aggravate my predisposition to genetic chronic conditions.

http://jelleym.tripod.com/badluck/badluck.html">Bad Luck Murphy

[fastwalker]

As Robert said:

"Most modern people today seem to only turn their face towards God when they are hit with seriously bad life experience, say when they lose a loved one, or their pay packet.  Apart from this, and the occasional wedding or funeral, most people seem to live self-absorbed hedonistic lives these days."

This has bothered me, NOT in others so much as within myself. I begin each work day, for example, with prayer and meditation. Just a wee bit of self introspection made it obvious I was connecting myself to spirituality via fear of the work day challenges. But when those challenges are not there (on a weekend or holiday), my discipline has traditionally lagged a bit.

Happily, there is a part of myself that seems to be monitoring all this (an observer self that does its best to stay detached from the go self), and was not pleased at my own fickle commitment level and asked for some guidance on this. What came back to me is pretty basic stuff, but it seemed profound to me (ain't that the way it is?). The response I got was that it was time for me to maturely connect with spirit via GRATITUDE and APPRECIATION each morning, not relying instead of the negative factor of fear to drive me to spirit. As a motivator, I find gratitude and a sense of appreciation very rewarding. Gratitude can be for something as simple as a breath without pain and a sky with a patch of blue.

Well, enough of that. I just thought I'd pass that on, since I have for many years had a strong spiritual quest, but I also saw how fat and lazy I could metaphorically become at times when the wolves weren't at the door. I do think fear is a legitimate incentive to connect to spirit, but it is really tedious over a lifetime. I find gratitude and wonder much less taxing (although, being human, I expect fear will still act as incentive more often than I might want to acknowledge).

Hey, Murphy! I know what you mean about wanting to be a sheep in a lush pasture for awhile. We all want that at some level for some period of time if RL (real life) has been rough. Most people in the middle ages (when life was decidedly tough) saw heaven as their version of Club Med - no work, all play, all modcoms (what at that time probably meant a hole in the ground to poo into). It's all relative in that respect. I regret that your life is difficult. For what it's worth, I've had a chronical disease all my life, and as I near 50, it really really is becoming quite a "bore", but that's how it is. Maybe I came into this particular life for specific lessons, and either the health issue is one of them, or else I compromised and said I'd put up with the health crap for all the other benefits this particular set-up would offer. It is all conjecture. I will accept that there truly are people with curses upon them. But I also know it is tempting to project all of this upon some "other". When I was a little kid my parents taught me that anything bad in my life was a direct punishment from God because I had sinned. What a trip to lay on a 5 year old! I still remember stubbing my toe one time on the bed post and crying out "God, what did I do wrong?"  Happily, I have left behind such trash-heap theology, but it is very dangerous to picture diabolical forces out there constantly making us stub our toe. Again, peace to you. If necessary, seek professional help from a Robert Bruce in a neighborhood near you.






Edited by - fastwalker on 01 March 2002  06:40:57

[Tir13]

I still assert that trying to summarize the balance between good and evil in a few sentences or a nifty little word like "karma" is either blatantly stupid or just plain misinformed.  Like everyone has said, rely more on your own experience, ...feel free to check with others to gain their opinion, but ultimately they are YOUR beliefs...think for yourself.  Alright, *getting off soap box*

Later,
Jason

[Robert Bruce]

To Bad Luck Murphy:

You believe you are under a curse, and even seem to embrace this.  But curses can be lifted or eased.  You need to find yourself an  experienced shaman or white witch.  You might like to Give Nita an email.  See her nest of articles on my website.

Take care, Robert.

[Two Bears]

=
You believe you are under a curse, and even seem to embrace this.  But curses can be lifted or eased.  You need to find yourself an  experienced shaman or white witch.  You might like to Give Nita an email.  See her nest of articles on my website.
=

Correct.

Another alternative would be for Murphy to go to a Kahuna to lift the curse(s) with the kala ritual.

Murphy is only cursed because his lower self (unihipili) accepted the curse by the power of suggestion.

Two Bears

Aloha nui loa
Received the title "master" 8 times and still trying to master myself.

[fastwalker]

To quote countless metaphysicians:

WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT EXPANDS.

Perhaps the first thing Murphy could do is get rid of the "Bad Luck" moniker before the "Murphy".  There are a lot more positive enhancing identities she could select. As I noted earlier, I have had a chronic illness much of my life, yet I lead a normal life. (As a teenager I had bad acne, but I was never once tempted to proclaim for myself the official title of ZIT QUEEN OF LOS ANGELES!). I certainly also have no intention of basing my identity on (and have people refer to me by) an ongoing illness.

I think any basic psychologist worth 2 cents would start working with the self-chosen self-definition of this person. If a ritual by a Kahuna or a white witch or a waitress at Dennys with gypsy blood helps, then do it!

And that web site that practically glorifies bad luck has got to go....devoting a world wide web site to the publication of your bad luck is NOT the way to eliminate such an ingrained pattern in life. I've found that people very soon lose interest in someone who proudly wears a victim's mantel.


Edited by - fastwalker on 02 March 2002  16:45:40

[Murphy]

Y'know, this is a joke.

I've landed among people who talk at cross-purposes to each other.

What ever happened to non-judgmentalism?

Ever heard of the story of the blind men each of whom were touching a separate part of an elephant yet none of them were correct?

quote:Quoted by RB:
You believe you are under a curse, and even seem to embrace this. But curses can be lifted or eased. You need to find yourself an experienced shaman or white witch. You might like to Give Nita an email. See her nest of articles on my website.

I've already corresponded with Nita, so you can ask her her thoughts on all this. As for your term "embrace" that's judgmental coming from a guy who is touted as empathetic. If you'd read some of my other posts, you'd have seen that I already tried contacting a white witch, but received no response. That's the whole point. Anyone I've ever contacted for help has not come through for me. Again, you'll all probably believe what you choose to believe about me (perhaps because it's easier to be judgmental than to believe?) So be it, it's par for the course.

BTW, I've lost interest in this message board (disillusioned yet again, for the thousand & umpteenth time)

http://jelleym.tripod.com/badluck/badluck.html">Bad Luck Murphy

[Joe]

Robert,

I just heard your interview on Art Bell - really good work - I'm looking forward to PPSD! As I was listening though, I was honestly troubled and not a little dismayed, as to why in God's great universe why (some) humans come under such consistent, widespread and fierce demonic attacks, and yet we see no evidence that the counter-force is there to defend such cases. Why is it that demons are apparently so interested in harming us, yet angels as our friends, guides and spiritual beings offer no defense to the defenceless. To my way of thinking, even on Earth when a small nation is invaded by a greatly stronger (evil) force, an equally strong ally will step in to help. Doesn't God have anything invested in His children? Would He not take offence at such gross violations of His law (I certainly would)?

I realise that the question is largely theoretical, but on a more practical note, is it possible to enlist the direct aid and participation of angelic entities in combat with demonic entities? Even deities? Not in the sense of "prayerfulness", "divine names" or "visualising white light", but fair dinkum angels-in-the-room defense? I honestly find it hard to accept that we live on a plane that is subject to a horde of fallen angels, whilst a horde of their opposite numbers sits and watches the action. I really would like to know if you have experience that shows that to be false...

Many thanks and my best

Joe